Same here.  Even my sewing projects, my sewing machine is right next to my computer.

Just rereading some of this

I worked with ANGLICO a bunch years ago, but they were always attached to us so I don't know how they did their own thing.

How many pax on a FCT? A 60 pound ruck or the 40% rule would have been a godsend.  With what was available in my time, LBE, weapon, and team gear would have smashed that 40% limit immediately.  

Just ordered my DZ rig in M-81. Can’t wait for it to arrive.

That's quite the journey from the 1st post a year and a half ago. You are even saving $150 bucks over the velocity systems one and I do like the features better.

There's nothing like solid research.

Wow, eighteen months goes by so fast these days.  I just looked at the first page again.  I have certainly learned a lot since my first comment about the Velocity Systems rig.
The historical perspective and evolution of the rigs has been interesting and the practical application will help with the "LARPing".

Thank you to all of the SMEs and especially Diz for designing the DZ rig and getting it to market.  

(Now, let us know when the next shipment comes in.  I want woodland in the middle-aged size.)

No shit, this thread has been a hoot.  I never imagined I'd have to put my rig where my mouth was.  

I will bug the powers that be to get the next air shipment expedited.  

I will have all drag handles sewn down by Sunday and start shipping out Monday morning.  

Big shout out to all participants.  I re-read this mug last week myself and there's some real nuggets in here.  

Funny last weekend Hawkeye had a get-together and they had some SF dude, who hadn't had his TA-50 on since Selection, and tried the Diz rig on and was like OMG.  And that was the whole point of this exercise.  

I think comfort is just like weight; if ounces become pounds, then minor niggles become major pains.

I’m like a 5 year old kid a week before Christmas, knowing I am getting the present that I really wanted and can’t wait to play with it. LOL

Especially wanting to see (hopefully) how comfortably it will interact with my ALICE pack for my given body type and gear to carry.

A DG or CF 3 may be a near future purchase because I am really warming up to the front load access convenience compared to digging for items from the top.

Also, it just makes sense to use something that has the benefit of over 40 years of improvement in ergonomics, materials, and real world lessons on how to integrate personal equipment.

Thanks Devil Dog and it's really just a matter of keeping your eyes n ears open, especially when you get to cross-train with other units, other countries.

I have been dorking with belt kits for a loong time and finally got to go to Wales and visit Jay Jays and Dixies Corner, which was very educational.  Also met (and raced) the Royal Welsh on the 'Fan, and got to see their belt kits and Bergens in action.

Hooking up with Crossfire was the final piece of the puzzle.  They built custom rucks for the Australian SAS rgt back in the 80's, and have continually improved ever since.  

So really when you take the PLCE, and modernize it; then take a CF ruck, and tweak it a bit, you get a nice integrated system.  

And for sure, I wish I had this shit back when I was running around with Deuce gear and an ALICE PACK.

L/XL in camos I prefer is OOS.  Snooze and Lose.

Yes. For sure, brother.
Luckily though, you and I are from a generation of men that from birth were pretty much taught to suck it up, shut the fuck up and deal with it by men that had gone through and came  out of FOR REAL hard times like the depression, World Wars, and working like dogs in coal mines since they were 8 years old.

Semper Fi.

That's a no-shitter!

I ran a mystery ranch backpack while backpacking for a long time.  I was laughed at by my ultralight buddies for having all this ultralight gear, but rocking a mystery ranch pack (who aren't known for light weight packs)

But every time they tried one on, they would all go   '....hey, this is way more comfortable than my pack!'

This next generation is going to be that same generation of hard men.

It's our job to guide them into that, teach them The Way, and ensure that they survive to do the same to their kids.

Which in this case, involves passing on the idea of belt kit.  

It's better than the Russian version.  

the Alice pack was made from 420d nylon.  It holds up ok.

The newer 300d is a cordura fabric I'm pretty sure.  It should be something like the 420d alice pack fabric in durability, maybe just slightly yes.

Yes, it's not the best material.  However, they were working on a knockoff of the actual SMERSH, which was made of a light material somewhat similar to this.

Some of the older versions of SMERSH was made of thicker materials, personally I woulda bumped it up to at least 400d packcloth or 500d cordura, but hey.

If it's a chest rig or LBV-type rig, I think lighter materials like 420, 500 are ok.  If it's a pouch on the belt line, I prefer stiffer pouches, 500D and up.  

The SMERSH is sorta a hybrid so shooter's choice.  

You are trading weight savings for durability and fiddle-factor.  Just depends on where you want to be.

“It’s all about the fiddle-factor!” would be a great slogan, lol

How are you guys fitting poncho liners in those buttbacks?  I have trouble imagining a Swagman or a Kifaru woobie (both of which I have) really making it in with anything else.

*super tempted to post a video of me unpacking and repacking my buttpack silently just to troll*

Seriously though.  I'm not using a stock woobie.  Or poncho.  Which you would have trouble fitting both of those stock items in there, much less anything else.

I wasn't kidding when I said my thinsulate poncho liner packed smaller.  Same with my poncho.

I'm tempted to tie mine into a ranger taco and just bungee it on top with some shock cord.

Do the bum rolls flatten out pretty well under a ruck?

Please do.  That wouldn't be trolling.

Only if you wear a bright red jock strap and nothing else.  

But seriously, one of the reasons I think that shit would go mo better in a small rucksack, vs on the beltline, is so you can doff the pack, and get into it.  

But needs be, and it was a common, if not approved method of carrying a poncho back in the day, by folding it up, and then folding in half, and running over the rear of the belt.  Maybe not the optimum way of doing things, but serves to illustrate grunts have been carrying things like ponchos on the belt line for a long time.  Mostly in the Pacific theater, where they weren't wearing any rucks.  

I never stuffed the damn thing in my buttpack.  I always "poncho rolled it" (yes there were even classes on how to do it), and used "boot blousing springs" (look it up) to secure it to the top.  I didn't like on bottom because it bounces on your butt/thighs.

So for me, it's non-issue to just attach the damn thing on top of my sustainments, samey, samey.  All that other shit can be divided and put into the pouches.

Just giving another POV.  

But let's say we are "stealth camping" ( ) so we want to set up quietly.  Your buddy sets security, while you fiddle with your kit.  If its merely banded on top, it simple to pull the bands to the side, and roll out (or put on), vs, fucking around with getting it out of the buttpack.  Same thing with a Bum roll; comes off easy without a lot of fiddle factor (you guys like that huh).

Here you go.

I don’t know what ponchos you guys are using, but my aftermarket “mil-spec” ones fit in my trouser cargo pocket with room to spare for my homemade medium sized survival tin.

I’m sure it been covered previously in this thread, but it’s tough to search for the specific post.

Going off the previous page, discussing AdminResults wearing it improperly, what is the correct method for wearing these rigs?

And how to do they typically interact with a backpack/hip belt?

Watch THIS  video.

Two thoughts I had.
Do Magpuls work with the mag pouch?

And I was thinking how a GI canteen and cup ride low, I'm thinking you could place some gear in first, under the cup and the side benefit would be making getting the canteen out slightly easier on the move and also get the cup out a little easier.

Just some ramblings.

*mumbles something about having to go to the trouble of figuring out how to host a video*

You want the pack riding directly on your rear pouches, and usually the corners of the ruck catch the canteen pouches.  

So no, the bum rolls would mess with stability.

I see the bum roll as something you run on / in your pack that is easy to get to, that clips easily onto your buttpack / rear pouches if you have time to swap it over.

Stuff it in comes from my backpacking days.  You would just stuff your sleeping bag into the bottom of your backpack.  If you are sleeping out of your backpack for months in a row without a break, you start to stop doing things like  'carefully putting your sleeping bag in a stuff sack'  and   'caring about grooming and body odor'

No first hand knowledge, but I remember one of the reviewers saying pmags work fine in the pouches.

I'm taking the Magpuls you attach to the magazines. The original product

Ooof. I go Boy Scout camping with the boys and when I come back all sold out! I hope the slow boat with the rest is almost here!

Oof.  Sorry, lol.  I thought for a second you meant those, but then was like  'nah, he's talking pmags'

Hmmm... Do Magpuls fit a Pmag?

MAYBE, but I doubt it.

You would definitely have to take the base off to get it to start.

They made a baseplate with one built into it for pmags.

By popular demand, I took a break from working outside, and ran upstairs to my storage room to make a video.  Sorry, but since I had to hold my camera in one hand, you will have to deal with my crap quality video of me unpacking the buttpack one handed instead of packing it.

I didn't have everything I normally have in there, so I threw a regular sized Nalgene bottle in there to show you how much room you have in there.  In the video, I have my thinsulate poncho liner, a regular poncho, not even my nice one, which is smaller, the nalgene bottle, cleaning rod and such, small oiler container, and a lens pen.  

You can see there is enough room to fit a pair of socks, emergency rations, and a few other things in there without overstuffing the buttpack.

Also at the bottom is a picture of the buttpack closed and a picture of the poncho label.

On buttpacks, that reminds me.  There was a lad on time whose buttpack was leaking water down his legs.  Upon inspection we found a six pack of beer iced down in there.  Not I'm not gonna say that's not a good idea, just don't get caught on drill weekend.  That UCMJ can be a bitch.  

Well shiite, I haven't used those (the Mag Pulls) in a loong time.  But yeah they should fit.  The tops were tailored with extra room, both ways, to allow for the extended MagPul floorplates.  Just USGI mags will be a little loose in there and require more tension from the bungees.  I will try and find some old GI mags and "MagPulls" to make sure.  While I love and use many MagPul products, in this case, I'd use a paracord cord loop, trapped between the mag body and the floor plate.  Especially in 3-mag pouches, where it might be a bit fiddly to get a mag out.  

On ponchos, Bum rolls, etc.  Yeah that's usually something you do after doffing the main ruck.  However, we run a ghillie hood in a Bum roll underneath an assault pack for just short, 8 hour patrols.  You could do the same with a jacket or poncho.  Basically just somewhere to hang a 3L water bladder, some spare mags, and a radio.  Although you could over-night with it, in a pinch.  I've done so with a lot less.  

On wearing it, I would say we've covered that pretty much, but then all the influencers keep coming up with new and innovative ways to do it.  In a nutshell, the idea is to have a belt kit, with all pouches flush with the top of it, so it creates a shelf for the ruck to sit on.  So depending on you and your ruck, that determines how high or low you wear it.  Generally speaking, it should be sitting where a normal civvie padded waist belt would be.

Onto the ruck.  What we're talking about is a short back ruck, that is designed to integrate (more or less) with a fighting load out, aka TA50, Deuce Gear, or Belt Order.  That means it was never designed to sit fully down, like a civvie ruck, but actually sit up higher, in the small of your back.  The "waist" strap is more of a belly band.  Generally speaking, it should run from the base of your neck, to the top of your pants (not over them).  

When combined, it should look something like this.  The belt kit sits firmly around your waist, pretty much right over a pants belt, if worn.  Then the ruck should go on with a good fit with shoulder harness, and snug down right on top of your back pouches on the belt kit.

How do you know it's right, aka the sweet spot.  Well, if the ruck is too long, or the belt kit worn too high, you will get gaps between you and the shoulder harness.  If your mate can stick his hand through, between you and the straps, (especially around back, from your neck to your back, over the shoulders).  If the ruck is too short, or the belt kit worn too low, the ruck will sit down ok on the shoulder harness, but sit too high to contact belt kit, leaving all the weight on the shoulders.  If you err any one way, I'd say this would be the preferred direction.  Better a little extra weight on the shoulders, than excessive weight on the hips.  Plus any spacing up-top will lead to instability and excessive pack sway.  

I generally do not even use the "waist strap" on a short back ruck.  It's more like a back strap on a chest rig, to just hold the gear in place.  Sitting down on the belt kit does this much better.  But if you do require extra stability, then our Tranny straps will connect the ruck with the belt kit, making it in affect your ruck waist belt.

The rigs are durn-near sold out.  More on the way, another air shipment in approx one week.

Thanks again y'all.

@Diz - are you thinking a pack like the old LBT 0990/CIDG? Or something more substantial like a Becker without a waist belt?

Whatever fits the bill.   It all depends on your lumbar measurement, and how you can make that work with a belt kit, and a rucksack.

The Russian Smersh in solid colors might be a lighter material, but mine in Multicam (or their knockoff) is actually pretty stout, more along the lines of 500d. The magazine pouches are also quite thick and stiff. I’m with @Diz on this, I really prefer stiffer magazines pouches and don’t mind a hybrid type setup. I would even go with 300d for the buttpack as long as the pouches were stouter or even had a stiffener sewn in.




That said, the Russian version was a good deal for the price a few years ago, but even if the Arktis version is update (at likely more expensive), I’d have some reservations. I do like the Smersh as my AK fighting kit, but it’s a little overly complicated and it takes a bit to find your comfort level of how it sits and balances your gear. That might be due to the funky attachment system which is an awkward version of MOLLE. At this point and likely price point, I would almost go with something like Nixiworks LFG setup and add some JayJay's ammo and accessory pouches...



I have it on good intel that in college ROTC (small school/group and just about all of us were prior service or in the ARNG), we just did ruck runs with weighted packs. They may have had a case of beer or three between the dozen of us. That was very would have been very motivating!

ROCK6

"I see noth-thing", in my best Sgt Schultz voice.  

They ain't bad, but I just gotta say, I've humped rigs with just solid cordura backing and they suck in really hot weather.  Samey Samey with Brit Bergens.

Looking at the "Big Picture", the quick sell-out of initial supply of "DZ rig" items is actually a Good Thing, as it validated demand for such items.

There are different manufacturers of SMERSH.  I've seen at least a half different Russian companies make them.  Some were made of heavier material.

Some of the older ones were too.

And yea, a few years ago Russian SMERSH was a good deal for an AK rig.  But I agree, there are better options out there.  But this is a discussion on belt kit, and that is a belt kit, and one of the main contenders.  And I was quite surprised by Arktis making it.

@ROCK6

Where’d you find that?

Yeah you're right on that one, Raf.  I have been banging on about belt kit for some time now, and the company took a big risk because we are definitely bucking the trend.  Look at everyone else (practically) still selling you square range/CQB kit (PC's, battle belts, etc.).  I have heard rumblings that some folks are switching gears and re-examining their support gear (including here), but still had no idea if it would sell.  

Obviously we missed the window for Black Friday sales, which made me wonder if anybody had bucks left to spare for us.  So thanks again to all you guys who bought one.    

We (well I) just got all the drag handles sewn down, and rigs will start shipping tomorrow.

@Armory04
Russia I'm not sure if anyone posted the site, but the war has shut it down. I ordered it directly from Russia a few years ago...

ROCK6

Yea, like I had mentioned, there WERE a half dozen different Russian companies making SMERSH rigs of various quality - most regular SMERSH quality, one or two of them were quite nice and even had some more modern updates, like wide molle belts - and a few more were really crap, like Condor level crap, but with Russia  QC.