Prepared Pathfinder just uploaded an overview of the CF1/Loki pack, Crossfire’s web page doesn’t do it justice. That’s got to be the most over-designed assault pack I’ve ever seen.

Yea those British padded belts are rare.  

They shouldn't be hard to make btw.  After handling one.  It's just a foam sleep pad sandwiched between 2 pieces of cordura, with attaching webbing and fastex buckles.  Easily done on a home sewing machine, you just have to sew through 2 pieces of cordura.  You just need the shape.  I bet we can talk someone on here who has one to trace the outline of the padding and give us some basic dimensions.

What I want is a LBE style rig like the Crossfire DZ-Rig, but with shoulder straps that will fit comfortably under a plate carrier as I can't really wear it over my plate carrier without the straps getting in the way of all the things I have attached to the carrier.  

Has anyone swapped out the DZ-Rig's shoulder harness for something thinner and more low profile?

Should be super easy to do.

Order one of these:

https://www.kitmonster.co.uk/product_info.php/products_id/1894

 OK, I get the hint.  I'll work on something, but don't expect diagrams.

See Post #9 in this thread.

They need to be accurate and to scale!  

Seriously though, just the actual length and width of the belt would work, along with a clear picture of one laid out flat.  It won't have to be exact.

I'd do it, but I don't have one sitting here.

I'll do what I can.

See Post #9 in this thread.

Regarding Crossfire Packs i have never handled one but from what i have seen they have a lot of features, i think it is to cater to a larger audience. If i had to buy one to use for certain things i would definitely like a slimmed down one with just the features i need.

Marnsdorff, if you need measuring and pics on some brits belt pads (which yes, sometimes they are just a rectangle of padding covered with cordura ) i have the DZ rig plus two Dragon Supplies ones, another cadet quality MTP one i don't know the brand and the standard issue belt pad. I may have some spare time tomorrow or the day after to dig them out.

Regarding the under armour yoke, there are purpose made ones, i have used a standard 4 point warbelt suspender with it in some exercises. i know there has been a lot of debate here about the advatantages of having 4 point of attachment in the back area, but i didn't experience any noticeable discomfort or load shifting when i wore a 4 point harness. Maybe it was the fact that load was lighter than usual, maybe because i carried a lighter and smaller day pack and not a bergen, maybe because the shape of the plate carrier made it push down on the pouches making the rig a little more stable.

Pardon if i dig up that picture again

Back in stock at Sportsmans Guide, no telling for how long.  Will supply some dimensions later.  Explore link for front and back views.  I believe these belt pads were issued in S, M, L, XL sizes.  I presume all the belts I have are the M size, but IDK.

https://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/british-military-surplus-dpm-hip-pads-3-pack-used?a=2281073&;szc=000&clrc=000&utm_source=bing&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=pla&utm_medium=pla&adlclid=7be4bb8b35ba18cae24addff1dd11ffb&utm_campaign=31664717&utm_channel=shoppingads&utm_product=wx2*0732098000000&msclkid=7be4bb8b35ba18cae24addff1dd11ffb


Dimensions as seen looking from outside of flat belt (side where straps are attached) and straight edge (top) of belt uppermost.  More-or-less as per main pic linked above.

Length overall: 31-1/2"

Distances to centerline of sewn-on straps, starting from Left edge of belt and moving towards center of belt: 3", 9-1/4", 16".  Other two straps similar to opposite hand.  IOW, measure from the Right edge of belt and use appropriate dims for centerline of the straps.

Width of belt, measuring from top (straight) edge:  Tips: 3-1/2", Hip pads (max) 7-1/2", Rear center: 4".

Straps:  3/4" nylon straps with single-end adjustable QR side-release buckles (see pic for detail).  Where strap is sewn to the outside layer of fabric, the strap is doubled over for about 2".  Again, these straps are sewn to the outside layer of fabric, and NOT to the inner foam liner nor to the inner layer of mesh.  Total length of 3/4" strap is about 8", including "doubled-over" portion sewn to fabric of belt, but not counting the "doubled-over" end at the adjustable end of the strap.  Uppermost (top) edge of stitching for the straps is about 1" from the top of the belt pad and continues downward throughout the "doubled-over" section.

On ONE of my six hip pads, ONE of the 3/4" straps had become partially detached from the belt.  Easily repaired with needle, thread, and thimble, sewing the doubled-over strap to the underlying fabric.  As an aside, Thimble used was "Much Stouter"/thicker thimble which fit my "man-finger" quite well, as opposed to much thinner/smaller thimbles, presumably designed for smaller female fingers.  YMMV, but more confidence in "thicker" thimble than a thinner one which "might" allow head of needle to puncture the thimble and puncture my finger.  "OUCH!"  Linky: https://countycomm.com/search?options%5Bprefix%5D=last&q=thimble

As-is, these hip pads will certainly accommodate USGI pistol belts and likely belts even wider.

NOTE: These dimensions taken from MY waist pads.  I ASSUME mine are Medium size, but since tags/labels are unreadable, IDK.  As it is, these belts fit over jeans with thin belt on my 38" waist with widest portion of hip pad being centered on my hip/leg and the "tips" of the belt just making it slightly past my Iliac hip bones.  Assuming mine are "Medium" size, and if I could wave a magic wand, I'd prefer the "Large" size-- but YMMV, according to body/waist size.

@marnsdorff  Please LMK if additional dims/clarification is needed.  For the scant money for a 3-pack, suggest you buy a set and then don't rely on my measurements.

This is one of the reasons I'm going to play around with making packs - thus the Medium ALICE pack project as a way to dip my toes into the water.  Crossfire packs are probably the best 'off the shelf' packs out there for this kind of stuff, but their frame and suspension system is why.  Not that their bags are bad - they're actually really good.  But like you said, I want something specific without some of the features (which add weight and complexity).  Thus I'm going to play around with making my own thing, with specifically what I want on there, and putting it on a Crossfire frame setup.

Not everyone is set up to sew or even wants to take the time to do a big project like that though, and Crossfire packs are legit and a good deal for the money.  





I don't need the measurements on the Diz belt - his size large belt is about the same size and shape as mine (I think it's about half an inch longer).  (Surprisingly, our belts ended up about the same in shape and size.  Though his has the curves under the front 'tabs' while my original belt had a 90 degree angle.  Which I quickly dropped when I was his belt because an inverse 90 degree angle is a pain to do with binding tape.  So I definitely stole that idea.  There are some other differences.  The exact dimensions and some of the construction choices are different.  The buckle placement is different.  But the overall design ended up very similar, all the way down to the 1.5" (I think he uses 1.75"?) webbing going all the way around the belt.  I hadn't seen his belt before I had my basic design done, and he had his in the early stages of production by the time I started posting pictures.)

But if you want to take pictures of the various kinds of padded belts and the shapes and basic overall dimensions (length and width), it would be nice to have them as a reference library for people to see.  I'm hoping to have up some DIY stuff for people as soon as I get caught up on orders, and padded belts to retro-fit older sets of PLCE and ALICE gear is a big thing that would help people, and something they can easily do at home.  That and an easy to do at home basic 6 point harness without bells and whistles that works well with ALICE gear is on the list.  I'm also wanting to offer materials packages along with actual patterns for people to do some of these things.  

But yea.  It'd be awesome if you can get some reference pictures.  A quick rundown of the best couple designs in your opinion and why they work better than the others would be useful info too.




I don't run my set under armor, so no personal experience, but from what I'm seeing, it doesn't matter AS MUCH when run under armor, as the armor keeps it in place better.  You might have better load distribution though.  I dunno.  

Another video of the DZ Rig.  Not that everyone on here wants to see another video of it, but the guy has a pretty ingenious idea for incorporating a Fanny pack to it.  Go to the last few minutes of the video for that part.  He starts by saying he isn’t sure what the tranny straps are for because there are no instructions.  But he uses them to clip in his Fanny pack.  Thought that was pretty cool. With that being said, you could also probably use them plus the PALS webbing on the shoulders to clip in a three mag bandolier to the chest.

Now that was entertaining.  I've been accused of being many things, but not an Aussie.  Not sure who got insulted there but I guess I'm in good company.

Pretty good review.  If you want a down in the mud, grunt-level review, you won't get any closer than that.  

Yes we suck at user manual stuff, but, I think we have things in the works.  

One point he brought up, vis-a-vis JJ's.  Their pad and pouches do stick up a little more.  This could be personal taste, but I like a lower "gunslinger" fit, where everything is flush with the top of your waistline, meaning a short back ruck (like I don't know a CF2) fits perfectly on top.  As the man said.  Now I think I know why JJ's does it that way; it's a trade-off between comfort while patrolling, and bounce when you're "actions on".  I will take a little more bounce in return for much better fit-up any day of the week.  But this is why USGI stuff is up so fucking high.  Some dude at Natick thinks that's more important, but as we've seen, here's what a grunt actually thinks.  

You know I gotta say that was pretty fucking ingenious in how he rigged up his buttpack, which is actually now a nutsack.  Originally, the tranny straps were sewn in just straight up, with no 45 deg fold.  We could go back to that, to make this kind of thing easier, if more guys start doing it.  But as you all know, the original intent is to have the front slick, but what the heck.

On the CF1.  Yeah it is a bit over-built, and feature-rich, but fuckit, that's what we think is needed.  

One thing Tom didn't really mention is the new style yoke on the shoulder straps.  I've always thought even an assault pack should have this, rather than just two straps attached at the top of the bag.  You now get a CF-style yoke on a real suspension system, vs just shoulder straps added on, almost as an afterthought.  This really helps carry the load, when you get water, ammo, optics, etc. in there.  This has always been the downfall to all these smaller assault and 3-day packs, and why they suck when you load them down.  It pulls from a center point on your back instead of right at the collar bones up top.  

There's only one other bag (that I know of) that does this.  I made a custom 3-day bag for George @GA Precision with a complete yoke suspension system like this.  I always though that's just the way it needs to be done.  Props to Crossfire for finally making this happen on a production pack.  

But he pretty much covered everything else.  

@Diz

What are the chances CF sells just the yoke from the CF1 separately? My current project is modifying an Austrian Alice pack.  That would be perfect for it.

Naw man, this is perfect to post.  It has a new take on the gear.

Hill People Gear's Umlindi pack has a full yoke, but doesn't pull from the middle of the pack.  Their bigger packs all pull from the middle of the pack with a yoke though.  

I do agree with you though, I think it's better than just two straps for most packs.

If they don't want to sell the yoke, Hill People Gear has their's for sale, it's somewhat similar and is a popular upgrade for ALICE packs and such.

A yoke like this wouldn't be hard to make in general btw.

https://hillpeoplegear.com/Products/CategoryID/6/ProductID/13

Probably not good these days.  We are not quite at the point of having individual parts for sale.  But as soon as I get my shit out of storage, I will send ya some patterns.  It pretty easy shit to make.  Or hell, get a surplus PLCE harness and get wiggy with it!

That would be awesome.  That and some direction on how to attach it to the pack.  The shoulder straps kind of have me in a holding pattern right now.  I have all the mods done, but don’t want to sew the sides closed until I figure out the shoulder strap attachments.

That's pretty easy.  I'd do something similar to what Hill People Gear does with their packs.

Look at this picture - see how the center of the yoke attaches down about halfway down the pack to a metal D-ring in this picture?  



If you look at this picture, you will see there is a strap of webbing sewn to the back of the pack, that runs down the center of the pack.  That is what the metal D-ring is attached to.  And see how the webbing runs under and is sewn into a horizontal piece of webbing that stretches across the top of the pack in this picture?  (the two thick pieces of tubular webbing that run down the left and right of the pack, under the lifter straps, are the two aluminum stays btw.  they run down and attach to the waist belt.)  This horizontal piece of webbing connects the top of the aluminum stays, the center piece of webbing that runs down to the metal D-ring, and the two lifter straps (that are also connected to the harness)

This ties all the suspension points together using sturdy webbing instead of fabric.  



You can see the stays and more pics of the webbing and such in this picture.



You can do the same kinda thing with the Crossfire pack style yoke as shown in this picture.  But you'd want to use two thinner pieces of webbing instead of the one center one like the HPG harness has.  Pros and cons to both choices.  Otherwise the basic concept is the same, lifter straps and all.  I'm assuming they have a piece of webbing buried in the area where those two bottom straps from the yoke attaches to the pack.  



Like Diz said, you can mod a PLCE style harness - basically just cut it off at the netting part, add some reinforcing webbing in appropriate places, and make one with that.  Or copy the pattern off of it.  Or just sew one up yourself.  If you didn't want to sew one (it's easy) then the HPG one will work the same like I mentioned above.  If you sew one, put a layer of interface stiffener (Peltex 70) and a layer of thick, dense poly batting in with it, or a piece of 1/8" foam instead of the batting.  If you go slow, a home machine should do it fine.

Hmmmmm, the attachment system won’t play too well with this pack.  I can’t imagine a d ring in the middle of the back.  Seems that would work with a frame pack where there is some stand off.  I may have to just go back to the old school straps attached at the top a la Alice.  I may take a set of Alice straps and just safety pin the sides closed to see how it carries.  These Austrian Alice’s have a very short height overall.  It may not be terrible.

You can put the D-ring down a few inches from the top of the pack, it doesn't have to be down halfway down.  You just need to leave enough room to allow the back of the harness to drop down as far below the shoulders as it needs to go.  

You can also mount the same style harness WITHOUT the center strap, directly to the top of the pack, if the pack is short enough.  Here's HPG doing the same harness, but on their shorter Umlindi pack.  You can see how they just don't use the center strap at all.  This pack works well with belt kit btw.  

Alrighty then. May pull the trigger on this.  Well probably the Bongo gear version since the HPG is sold out.

Oh yea, Bongo gear has a similar but different harness.  I forgot about them.

Ideally, you want these sort of straps running through the whole back panel, so as Cap6888 brought up, you don't have any hardware and such in the middle of yer back.  But on smaller packs/lighter loads you can sometimes get away with it.  If it turns out all you monkeys start carrying 30+ lbs in these things, we'll probably drop the attachment points down to the bottom.  

The first system I saw doing this was the Lowe Alpine "Loco", which was modified into one of the first military systems (Vector) I ever saw, circa 1979.  They used a system of 2" webbing, woven through a field of 1" webbing, and then anchored at the base of the pack with a 2" buckle (hidden behind the lumbar pad).  Sort of a precursor to molle.   You adjusted the lumbar height by choosing which 1" slot you started your weave at.  Gregory did essentially the same thing with a field of 3" velcro, hot-knifed at 1" intervals, on their Snow Creek design.  These two concepts became the basis for my pack designs.  You are trying to transfer the weight from the shoulders down to the waistline.  

Crossfire did what many others tried, in splitting this trunk into two straps and taking them towards the corners.  This essentially creates a "X" pattern, connecting each top corner to the opposite bottom one.  This goes a step further and tries to support the body's natural stride, by flexing the frame as the shoulder and hip gridle move in opposite directions.  This is fairly important to keep you from falling on your ass.  I think the reason CF was so successful was their external frame design.  With the hollow center (instead of "I" beams), the frame could actually flex with you as you moved.  The weight in the pack accentuates this flexing moment.  This is what first caught my attention with them.  Someone finally cracked the code on military frame design.  And yes I hope some day you can buy these things separately.  

As to the bag design, ideally you would have continuous webbing straps running through the entire bag, both vertically and horizontally, which the suspension and frame would then anchor to.  In this way, the webbing takes the load instead of the material.  

But doing all this adds weight and is an anathema to ultra lighters.  So you start to see the differences between civvie and mil pack design.

Active duty grunt’s set up and review. How he has it setup to work under a PC and what he has in it is interesting. :

Another good review, from the current grunt perspective.  This is valuable info for those times and places you might be integrating with BA.  And yes, the Brits will be losing their minds about how he loads it up, and puts so little emphasis on brew kits and so forth, but it's a valid alternate perspective.  The current gen is used to working from assault packs and 3-day rucks (not to mention PC's) vs belt kits.  

But again, it's all good information for you to pic and choose from, according to your needs.  

Personally I can't see how you'd survive without a good brew kit but that could be the old cold war grunt in me.

I have to admit, I wasn't a big user of the canteen cup when I was on AD, either. Cooking MREs took longer than just eating them Wasn't a coffee drinker either (interfered with the Copenhagen). That was as good breakdown vid though. I emailed CF and there is no MC Arid or Coyote in the pipeline, so Ranger Green it will be.

What is usually carried in such a brew kit?

I can count on one hand the number of times I saw 'brew kits' in the field with the infantry cats. The MRE heater works well and you don't need flame. If you're not worried about shaving, or cooking anything, then having the bulk of a canteen cup may not make sense. I have a nalgene cup because people on the internet told me it was a good idea but even living in the field for a month at a time I never had reason to use it. Just one more thing to clean and take care of when I was living out of MREs and a hot A for breakfast.

Different times, different militaries.

A "Brew Kit" might be useful in some circumstances, not least as a backup for other items.

For instance:
1) Boiling water to sterilize the water, or to sterilize first-aid/medical implements,

2) Cooking food, as opposed to simply heating prepared food (MRE),  

3) Making heated drinks which might be useful in very cold climates,

4) Heating a frozen canteen,

5) Other.  Use your imagination.

It's up to the user to determine whether the weight/bulk is needed, but I suggest that similar to a First Aid kit the frequency of use not be conflated with the utility of such a kit under certain circumstances.

Recall that one of the fundamental tenets of this thread is (and the belt-carried platform) is that the user will be out and about for some time with possibly indifferent re-supply.

I can't see having a "Brew Kit" for simply making tea at every halt as the Brits are reported to do, but the utility of the kit may go far beyond such prosaic uses.

Brew kit Is not unlike the mre accessory pack for the 24hr British rations.

It has 2 tea, 2 coffee, 8 Sugar, 4 creamers, chewing gum, wet wipes, water purification tabs.
To Cook you May use everything from a tripod made of nails, flat food ration issue stove, esbit stove up to a jetboil every two men.
Fuel Is issue hexamine, Fire dragon gel cubes, esbit tablets.
Cooking pot Is issue mess tin, canteen Cup, civilian hiking metal mug.

This Is a general idea as everyone Will carry slightly different, but you get the idea.

I Discovered that in a pack One of those hipster metal thermal mugs May be a nice comfort item to drink a hot drink or broth After a few hours without relighting a Fire every stop.

I used this as my stove several years ago. It was light, It took a small (proprietary and expensive, but very small) tank and It beat the esbit In water heating time. Having a tube meant the flame was lower to the ground for that Little extra concealment and protection. I gave It away to a deploying friend and never used It again.

Yea, generally a brew kit is some way of heating up hot water, and a small selection of tea and sugar and such, and sometimes (usually?) a few little snacks.

It amazes me when I see British dudes whip out a jetboil from their BELT KIT - like, it takes up a whole sustainment pouch - and brew up some tea.  

I mean I carry a titanium cup under my water bottles, and I do keep a folding titanium stove and some esbit tablets in my belt kit for emergencies.  And I do keep a small brew kit of tea bags, hot cocoa, instant coffee, and sugar  (usually one serving of each) for emergency pick me ups, especially in cold weather.  But I rarely use it.  I'm DO regularly use my electrolyte packets and random snacks I keep on myself though.  I guess that's my 'brew kit'?  I guess I'm kinda in the middle on this.

Ha ha yeah we're really seeing the differences between gens here.  That's why I caveat this shit.  Everyone's mileage may vary!

When I was in Iraq in 2003, I used the USGI canteen cup/stove with hexamine tablets.  I didn’t have a lid for the cup so it took forever to boil.  And the first time I did it I burned the hell out of my lips on the cup.  Fortunately my wife had sent me these Folger coffee bags (like a tea bag but with coffee). Wayyyyy better than the Tasters Choice from the MREs. The main substantial difference is the more available instant coffees that actually taste great. My belt kit has a Brit pattern cup/stove set up, day pack has an Esbit stove, and main pack has a jet boil. I need my coffee.

They make little silicon 'lips' to put on your cups for just this reason.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0038WTTVS?tag=arfcom00-20

Another possible useful item that I use for backpacking is this little silicon 'pot holder' - it's tiny, it literally fits 2 fingers - to pick up your hot cup off the stove.  

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004R1M3EO?tag=arfcom00-20

i was never completely sold on the jetboil but i can see its appeal. To put it in context you have to keep in mind that british ration up until today still don't have flameless ration heaters in them (except the new jungle rations). in each ration there was a folding piece of metal that works as a cup stand plus a few hexamine (not trioxane) cubes that are of questionable quality. Also if i recall correctly the foil pouches (atleast some) are not ready to eat and they must be heated in boiling water. as a soldier being forced atleast three times a day to boil a canteen cup water with trioxane gets old quickly. A hexamine tab will heat a canteen cup (about half a quart) in around 9-10 minutes.

Enter the jetboil: it is reasonably compact, uses commonly available gas cartridges, boils double the amount of water (circa 1 quart) in less than three minutes. You can put up to two foil pouches of food inside and a single cartridge is good for cooking 10 meals, more if you cut off the gas from time to time. Being a single interlocking  piece means you can carry it in your hands when cooking (not that it will ever happen) or even suspend it with some carefully applied cordage should you rest in some particularly steep area (that happened).

It is not immune to problems however. It can be damaged if carried into a pouch, it rusts easily when it is assembled for storage when not carefully dried, it is tall and thin meaning you have to balance the pouches or it may tip over, it is not good foor cooking soup or other canned items as it gets too hot to quick and everything sticks to the bottom, it is burning hot in the bottom and you have to let it cool before reassembly and can't put in over a poncho or tarp. Also you can't fly with those gas canisters. It is good for many climates but it is not a cold weather stove, won't flow in conditions always met by mountain troops where you need a fuel stove that runs on petroleum or similar.

Hi everyone. I’ve been routinely following this thread over the past year. It’s always fascinating to see the discussions, innovation, and kit choices.

I haven’t fully committed to the platform but I did dip my toes in this morning and bought the SORD Belt Pad Patrol Order I saw on eBay.

From what I hear, this will be a solid, but not quite premium choice.

My questions are, does anyone have photos of theirs configured? It’s hard to find actual user reviews of them or being worn.

Second, does anyone have a spare Multicam MVP harness they would be willing to sell me secondhand? I’m looking to keep this endeavor budget friendly!

I would probably not place that hard Pelican Case right at the center back of the DZ Rig or any other hard object like it.  Probably best to put that into a side pouch.  If you got banged up with a decent amount of force to the lower center back such a hard object could really mess up your back/spine.   Keep center line back/butt pouches free of anything really hard/rigged like that, if possible.  

Like Grunt Perspective's use of the H style harness from Velocity Systems in combinatin with the DZ Rig for under armor wear.  THe DZ Rig harness looks excellent for padding and attachment on its own, but I'd want something much lower profile for the harness under body armor and of course not chest cinch strap at all.

My only real concern about sustainment belt kit is working out of any civilian vehicle where I'd think it would be really difficult given the pouches all around the back.  Definitely more of a dismounted patrol type kit, which is still something I want, because it will allow me to offload a lot from my pack and spread it out across my body a bit more hopefully giving some overall improved comfort.  

The cons you mentioned are why I never went jetboil when I got into the backpacking world.  I went the alcohol stove route.  Small alcohol stove, a few esbit tablets as backup, and a tiny, light folding wood stove (3.5" x 3.5" flat when folded, as thick as 3 credit cards, less than 4 ounces) that I can use as ultimate backup.  They all work together as a system, the wood stove doubling as a windbreak for the alcohol stove / esbits if I want to go that route.  (I also have a small roll of titanium foil, like aluminum foil but titanium)  I can get alcohol to use in far more places than I can jetboil canisters.  

The whole system + my titanium pot weighs less than a jetboil, and it all nests around / beside my water bottles, other than the alcohol stove, which is tiny.  I use an 8oz or 16oz Nalgene bottle for alcohol.

I've got a few of the SORD belt pads.  It's what I started with.  They are actually pretty well made - but there are two issues with them.  First, they don't breath.  That is fixable (a couple guys have modded theirs at home) but that doesn't help you out of the box.

Second is that it doesn't come with D-rings to attach your harness to.  And most MOLLE pouches out there don't have D-rings built into them.  There are two fixes to this - you can sew D-rings to the pouches themselves (what I originally did) or you can sew D-rings to the belt itself (which I've also done on my other SORD belts).  It's an easy mod, I can show you how to do it.  

Other than those, the SORD belts are actually relatively similar in design to Diz's belt and my belts.  A few differences, but the basic shape and design is there.  They were a really good deal back when SORD was blowing them out for like $15 each.

I switches away from using the SORD belt after I started sewing my own gear and made myself a MOLLE belt of my own (now I have fully custom, all sewn to the belt setups) but my setup on the SORD belt (when I was running it) was a Fireforce MOLLE buttpack  (no longer available, but I sell MOLLE buttpacks now ), 2 x surplus British Osprey Canteen pouches, with D-rings sewn to them, 3 x Velocity Jungle Rig mag pouches, and a surplus Eagle double mag pouch, modded to run as a holster, with a D-ring added to it  (I got a deal on 3 used Velocity mag pouches, thus why I only have 3 on there and the odd Eagle pouch).  I also have a few other odd pouches attached to the buttpack, mag pouches, etc.  (flashbang pouches for tourniquet and a baofeng radio for instance)

Here are a couple old pictures of the setup on the SORD belt.  Excuse my dog please.  The harness was an early prototype of the custom harnesses I make.  I prefer 8 point over 6 point harnesses, but that's just personal preference.  I'm the odd guy here, 8 point harnesses and buttpacks on British style kit.  





The SORD belt works ok for what it is.  It'll give you an idea if you like the system or not.  Pros and cons though - besides having to mod it for D-rings (which is easy), you are going to be buying MOLLE pouches, most of which won't lend over to the nicer kits that have the support / water / buttpack pouches directly sewn to the belt  (though you can also do this to your SORD belt once you get it configured right, don't leave that out as an option)

If you want the cheap way to configure the belt, go dig up 2 x British 'Osprey' Utility / Canteen / UGL / LMG MOLLE pouches (there are 5 different pouches, all are similar, but have very slightly different dimensions.  All fit on 2 x columns of MOLLE.  The Canteen / UGL / LMG ones are slightly bigger and better suited for use as water bottle / canteen pouches.  The 'Utility' one has a cinch drawstring, and can be used for water, but is slightly smaller than the others.  All these pouches usually run between $10-15.  I've seen British MTP and Desert camo versions)  Use those two pouches as water bottle / canteen pouches like I did.  

Then you need to decide on Buttpack or British style Utility pouches for the backside.  MOLLE buttpacks are unobtainable right now.  I sell traditional MOLLE style buttpacks.  Velocity's buttpack is hard to find in stock.  The few others out there have various issues.  If you want to try British utility pouches, get 3 x more of the utility pouches.  Or you can try things like SAW pouches.  Also, you can sometimes find Dutch MOLLE utility pouches, they WORK, but aren't super great.

However, the Dutch MOLLE MAG pouches are a good deal for the money.  They hold 3 x STANAG AR mags each.  They aren't the best pouches - they don't have much structure, ie, they are a bit floppy when not full - but they work, and you can get 2 of them for like $13?  I'd get 4 of them total.  Sportsmans Guide currently has them in stock.

https://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/dutch-military-surplus-7-x-4-ammo-pouches-2-pack-used?a=2245627

There are various other pouches you can use to put on the belt, you can use your imagination.  That's how I did mine though.

As for a spare harness, you are going to have a fun time finding a decent 6 point harness cheap right now.  Personally I'd get one of the Danish surplus PLCE 6 point harnesses that have been on the market recently.  They are new and an exact copy of the British issue 6 point harness.  It's not multicam, but the camo is cool anyways.  And they are cheap.  If you can't find one for sale, I have a few dozen I stocked up on and will sell you one.  I can also mod them with a sternum strap, which is a huge upgrade.  Those Danish harnesses will be your best bet right now.  

Post pics of what you get set up.

It's definitely not optimized for in-vehicle ops.  But if you play with it, you can learn that it's not hard to slip the rig off one of your shoulders and spin the WHOLE thing around, so that it is on backwards.  With the pouches all facing forwards.  It's not perfect, but it's quick, (doing it both ways) once you figure it out and works.

I have these now.  In 2003, it was tough to get any stuff of real use. I ended up using some 100 MPH tape which served the purpose well enough. Not sure what the chemicals from that adhesive may have caused though.

Let's hope for super powers.  

I like the look of that gear.

The mismatched prototypes are fun.

Yea, I'm not one to be all 'I gotstah have all matching gucci camo'.  I'm totally ok with mix and match stuff as long as it generally works together.  Personally I think it breaks things up at farther distances than just one base camo.  

I generally knew what I wanted in a belt kit, and I went and pieced together basically everything I needed - a buttpack, 2 x fully enclosed water bottle pouches that would take nalgene bottles, and 4 x fully enclosed triple AR mag pouches.  Most of those items are really hard to find now, REALLY hard to find a few years ago when I started piecing it together.  In the end, it came together decently.  The harness was the impossible thing to get, not without ordering something from England, and NO ONE makes an 8 point harness anymore (Platytac used to, as did FOMC  or whatever it was, among a few others) - and that's what made me get into sewing my own stuff.  Making myself a harness.

The buttpack is good.  Too bad Fireforce went out of business - but good for me, as now I'm maybe the only dude making a MOLLE copy of a traditional USGI style buttpack in 1,000 Cordura.   (Velocity comes close though)

The British pouches are actually pretty nice.  I wouldn't have a problem making a full set of kit out of British surplus pouches.  Even permanently sewing on the old PLCE pouches to a modern belt makes a dang nice set of belt kit for cheap.

The Velocity mag pouches are....not that great.  Don't take me wrong, they're not BAD.  Just lacking in a few important things - mainly not much structure (they sag when not full) and the buckle needs to be 1", not 3/4".  

But yea.  Overall it's a solid rig I think.  I wouldn't have a problem running it full time.  I'd probably sew the pouches down permanently, but otherwise, it's solid.

I've still got this rig.  It's on a belt I made for myself now though.  Basically the same kinda belt, slightly different.  But I've moved on to a woodland fully sewn on custom kit for myself.  It's the early prototype of the sewn on stuff I'm doing.  Though that will be sidelined here soon - I'm currently sewing another, production level set of sewn on custom kit for myself as part of this batch I'm seriously behind schedule doing.  It's in ATACS ix.  It's the kit I've had as my goal of 'the perfect belt kit' for myself.  The whole reason I started sewing kit.  Basically, it's the world's most expensive set of belt kit.  You don't want to know how much money I've put into seriously learning to sew and equipment and materials and such.  

I have a problem....I can stop anytime........

Thank you for the thorough reply! There’s a lot to unpack here.

I thought the kit crowd was fairly similar but the jungle belt crew is a different breed (in the best way). You all have had to take things into your own hands as far as development and customization goes which I respect.

Sewing in D rings might be the bigger first step I’d have to take. As far as Buttpack vs British style pouches on the back, I lean towards the latter because it seems like it will integrate better with a pack.

I hadn’t considered other harnesses (IE 6 point you brought up). I was considering the 8 point SORD MVP since I wouldn’t need to do the D ring mod. Any experience with that?

And do you have a link to your shop? I would be interested exploring that via PM!

Adding D rings to pouches was discussed earlier in the thread so you might want to go back and find where. I recall Raf had found a handy solution. Something similar to this, which would also work:

https://wisemencompany.com/skin-tag-pair/

If you’re just talking about adding a D ring to a Molle pouch, it’s easy enough to just slide a D ring through the top of the middle Molle strap before weaving it through the belt.

When I made my own kit, I kinda followed the SORD concept and extended the webbing so it weaves through the middle Molle channel and belt. It works, but I don’t love it. I did this primarily to prevent having any hardware on the yoke so I can wear a PC over it. I think I’m gonna take my belt back to the drawing board though. I also started with one of the clearance SORD belts. I added padding to it already. But I may go back and sew on Tab adjusters instead of D rings or triglides. That will  make them adjustable with less hassle.

Holy hell, that is so simple, I can't believe I never thought of it. Thanks for that hack,