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Posted: 5/18/2024 9:51:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: drobs]
Did some horse trading and ended up with one of these. Will it run? I haven't shot it yet.
 Attached File Attached FileYeah I still plan to get an Atlantic Firearms Century AP5. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2024 10:01:33 AM EDT
[#1]
Only you can tell us that after you try it. Hopefully it has no issues.
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KY, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2024 10:11:53 AM EDT
[#2]
So which is the best (non HK) made MP5 clone?
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GA, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2024 10:29:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: giantpune]
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By IHC53: So which is the best (non HK) made MP5 clone? The ones made on HK tooling, with the TDP and HK coming in and training your guys how to do everything. POF and MKE are the popular ones. Those are real war factories, making tanks and missiles. Everybody else is just guessing and reverse engineering. PTR has been at it pretty long and seems to have worked out most of the kinks. Zenith is still brand new at it. They used to be an importer of MKE. That deal soured. Zenith started building their own. We don't really have a lot of them out there to say how well they did. Its like buying a car model the first year it is released. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 12:20:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: drobs]
[#4]
Ran 2 partial mags through it, not quite 50rds, just now. No issues except the last round in each magazine is getting crushed.
The mag spring seems a little weak. I need more more mags. Zenith recommends a 500rd break-in. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2024 12:29:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: giantpune]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By drobs: No issues except the last round in each magazine is getting crushed. This is an insanely common issue if you're using KCI mags. They are rebranded by several companies. The easy way to identify them is look at the spot welds on the pad on the front face of the mag. I wanna say I saw the listing for the zenith brand mags on atlantic's website and they had the telltale KCI spotwelds. Supposedly can be fixed by swapping the follower. I say don't bother. Shitcan the mag and buy something from HK/POF/MKE. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 12:32:45 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By giantpune: This is an insanely common issue if you're using KCI mags. They are rebranded by several companies. The easy way to identify them is look at the spot welds on the pad on the front face of the mag. I wanna say I saw the listing for the zenith brand mags on atlantic's website and they had the telltale KCI spotwelds. Supposedly can be fixed by swapping the follower. I say don't bother. Shitcan the mag and buy something from HK/POF/MKE. Will do. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 4:52:49 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By giantpune: The ones made on HK tooling, with the TDP and HK coming in and training your guys how to do everything. POF and MKE are the popular ones. Those are real war factories, making tanks and missiles. Everybody else is just guessing and reverse engineering. PTR has been at it pretty long and seems to have worked out most of the kinks. Zenith is still brand new at it. They used to be an importer of MKE. That deal soured. Zenith started building their own. We don't really have a lot of them out there to say how well they did. Its like buying a car model the first year it is released. With the one caveat being that was 40+ years ago. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 6:15:11 PM EDT
[#8]
Originally Posted By drobs: Did some horse trading and ended up with one of these. Will it run? I haven't shot it yet. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/41568/Zenith_MP5_2_jpg-3217201.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/41568/Zenith_MP5_jpg-3217202.JPG Yeah I still plan to get an Atlantic Firearms Century AP5. Cool gun, theres lots of good K stocks out there if you're going to SBR it. As far as mags, the only MP5 clone I have is the full size AP5 (MKE) and the only mags I have are a dozen MKE mags. They're wobbly in my gun but they've all been 100% Originally Posted By IHC53: So which is the best (non HK) made MP5 clone? My MKE has had some issues that were easily fixable. Its been a good gun for the money. Ive seen some people with horrible experiences, and some with perfect guns. Ive had to replaced the extractor spring and hammer. The spring I can excuse, but making guns with a cast hammer like mine had is ridiculous.  |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2024 7:20:16 PM EDT
[#9]
I know many have had much better experiences with the new American made Zenith ZF5 but heres my experience. Take it for what you will. Never ever ever again with that company. I was very patient and gave them more than enough opportunities to get my ZF5 running. Original was replaced and the replacement was sent back geez, I lost count, 5 times? Over a year and I got nowhere, same issues, gun wouldn't run. I asked for a refund. The first refund check bounced. The second refund check bounced. I finally lost it and when I called I asked to talk to the most senior person available and told them I wanted a cashiers check sent out immediately. I've had alot of firearms in my 52 years and that ZF5 was hands down the absolute biggest piece of garbage. In the time that I was just trying to get my money back from Zenith I ordered an HK SP5, it came in, I filed the form 1 to sbr it, it got approved, then I ordered an A3 F stock and got it. All of that happened in less time than it took for me to get my money back from Zenith plus I had a firearm that ran with no issues. I don't know if they were trying to smooth things over but they also sent me a $100 gift card with my cashiers check. Nope, I don't want anything to do with that company ever again. I gave the gift card away to a member on here. I wouldn't be surprised one bit if the code on the card didn't work though.
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Posted: 5/19/2024 9:08:00 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rudy614: I know many have had much better experiences with the new American made Zenith ZF5 but heres my experience. Take it for what you will. Never ever ever again with that company. I was very patient and gave them more than enough opportunities to get my ZF5 running. Original was replaced and the replacement was sent back geez, I lost count, 5 times? Over a year and I got nowhere, same issues, gun wouldn't run. I asked for a refund. The first refund check bounced. The second refund check bounced. I finally lost it and when I called I asked to talk to the most senior person available and told them I wanted a cashiers check sent out immediately. I've had alot of firearms in my 52 years and that ZF5 was hands down the absolute biggest piece of garbage. In the time that I was just trying to get my money back from Zenith I ordered an HK SP5, it came in, I filed the form 1 to sbr it, it got approved, then I ordered an A3 F stock and got it. All of that happened in less time than it took for me to get my money back from Zenith plus I had a firearm that ran with no issues. I don't know if they were trying to smooth things over but they also sent me a $100 gift card with my cashiers check. Nope, I don't want anything to do with that company ever again. I gave the gift card away to a member on here. I wouldn't be surprised one bit if the code on the card didn't work though. Mine seems to run fine. Maybe they have worked out their issues. Bounced checks happen even with big companies. Sounds like they worked it out for you eventually. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/19/2024 9:50:56 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kalahnikid: Cool gun, theres lots of good K stocks out there if you're going to SBR it. As far as mags, the only MP5 clone I have is the full size AP5 (MKE) and the only mags I have are a dozen MKE mags. They're wobbly in my gun but they've all been 100% My MKE has had some issues that were easily fixable. Its been a good gun for the money. Ive seen some people with horrible experiences, and some with perfect guns. Ive had to replaced the extractor spring and hammer. The spring I can excuse, but making guns with a cast hammer like mine had is ridiculous. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kalahnikid: Originally Posted By drobs: Did some horse trading and ended up with one of these. Will it run? I haven't shot it yet. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/41568/Zenith_MP5_2_jpg-3217201.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/41568/Zenith_MP5_jpg-3217202.JPG Yeah I still plan to get an Atlantic Firearms Century AP5. Cool gun, theres lots of good K stocks out there if you're going to SBR it. As far as mags, the only MP5 clone I have is the full size AP5 (MKE) and the only mags I have are a dozen MKE mags. They're wobbly in my gun but they've all been 100% Originally Posted By IHC53: So which is the best (non HK) made MP5 clone? My MKE has had some issues that were easily fixable. Its been a good gun for the money. Ive seen some people with horrible experiences, and some with perfect guns. Ive had to replaced the extractor spring and hammer. The spring I can excuse, but making guns with a cast hammer like mine had is ridiculous. A seller on gunbroker have a listing of 4 MKE mags new for $135 shipped.. is this a good price or can I find better deal elsewhere? |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 5/19/2024 10:04:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: giantpune]
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Malhass: A seller on gunbroker have a listing of 4 MKE mags new for $135 shipped.. is this a good price or can I find better deal elsewhere? Are they new or used? And what's it come out to after gunbroker ticketmasters the hell out of it with fees? PSA has them for $39, free shipping for 5+. SKU is 51655131088. Or 2 for $75, no free shipping. https://palmettostatearmory.com/pack-of-2-century-arms-ap5-30rd-magazine-black.html |
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Posted: 5/19/2024 10:09:34 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Malhass: A seller on gunbroker have a listing of 4 MKE mags new for $135 shipped.. is this a good price or can I find better deal elsewhere? Yes |
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Posted: 5/19/2024 11:03:20 AM EDT
[#14]
Any word on the AC-Unity mags?
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Posted: 5/19/2024 11:24:23 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By drobs: Any word on the AC-Unity mags? For plastic mags, I prefer the Omags. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 5/19/2024 12:25:06 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By drobs: Any word on the AC-Unity mags? Some guys like them. I gave them a shot and wasn't a fan. I have them in 30 and 40rd. Aside from being tight, some of mine had feeding issues. ACUnity is cheap bosnian shit. They can't figure out injection molding to get the right size. So they market the mags as "file to fit your gun". A solution to a problem that nobody had. No other mags need filed to fit and work in multiple guns. |
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Posted: 5/20/2024 7:03:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: drobs]
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By giantpune: Are they new or used? And what's it come out to after gunbroker ticketmasters the hell out of it with fees? PSA has them for $39, free shipping for 5+. SKU is 51655131088. Or 2 for $75, no free shipping. https://palmettostatearmory.com/pack-of-2-century-arms-ap5-30rd-magazine-black.html Put these on order. Thanks! RE the Zenith KCI mag, thinking I might just load a fired case into the mag 1st. Make that the sacrificial round. |
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Posted: 5/22/2024 8:10:43 AM EDT
[#18]
My Gemtech Lunar 9 with tri-lug mount locks on nicely. A little early here but I popped off 2 rounds through it just now. Works great.
 Attached File Attached File |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 5/25/2024 11:20:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Mav3rick]
[#19]
Don't mean to hijack ops thread, but l recently bought a new unfired zenith ZF5P. I plan on running it always suppressed and l read that it is highly suggested to swap out the 100° locking piece with the 80° locking piece so the back of the receiver doesn't get beaten up. I picked up the RCM 80° new Locking piece. Using a feeler gauge l measured the gap with the original 100° LP and the gap measured at 0.010". With the new 80° LP the gap is only 0.007". Am I okay to go with such a small gap? I heard normal operating range is 0.010 to 0.020".
One other question, my plan is to shoot it suppressed via 3 lug. I take that knurled thread protector off when putting the can on? Sorry l am new to the mp5 platform. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/25/2024 1:49:35 PM EDT
[#20]
My can wouldn’t fit with the knurled thread protector on, but I had read this from others. So I got a smooth thread protector online somewhere, & the can fit just fine with it. GARY.
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Posted: 5/25/2024 5:18:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: drobs]
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mav3rick: Don't mean to hijack ops thread, but l recently bought a new unfired zenith ZF5P. I plan on running it always suppressed and l read that it is highly suggested to swap out the 100° locking piece with the 80° locking piece so the back of the receiver doesn't get beaten up. I picked up the RCM 80° new Locking piece. Using a feeler gauge l measured the gap with the original 100° LP and the gap measured at 0.010". With the new 80° LP the gap is only 0.007". Am I okay to go with such a small gap? I heard normal operating range is 0.010 to 0.020". One other question, my plan is to shoot it suppressed via 3 lug. I take that knurled thread protector off when putting the can on? Sorry l am new to the mp5 platform. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mav3rick: Don't mean to hijack ops thread, but l recently bought a new unfired zenith ZF5P. I plan on running it always suppressed and l read that it is highly suggested to swap out the 100° locking piece with the 80° locking piece so the back of the receiver doesn't get beaten up. I picked up the RCM 80° new Locking piece. Using a feeler gauge l measured the gap with the original 100° LP and the gap measured at 0.010". With the new 80° LP the gap is only 0.007". Am I okay to go with such a small gap? I heard normal operating range is 0.010 to 0.020". One other question, my plan is to shoot it suppressed via 3 lug. I take that knurled thread protector off when putting the can on? Sorry l am new to the mp5 platform. I'm also new to the mp5 platform and need to do some research on the locking piece. Originally Posted By N4KVE: My can wouldn’t fit with the knurled thread protector on, but I had read this from others. So I got a smooth thread protector online somewhere, & the can fit just fine with it. GARY. My Gemtech tri-lug mount (aka female 3 lug mount) works perfectly with my Zenith and the original knurled thread protector. If it didn't I'd probably just leave the thread protector off vs buying a smooth thread protector. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 5/26/2024 7:10:46 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By N4KVE: My can wouldn’t fit with the knurled thread protector on, but I had read this from others. So I got a smooth thread protector online somewhere, & the can fit just fine with it. GARY. Haven't tried the can on there yet but l read others talking about the smooth thread protector but the only place that sells one never has it in stock. Will try the can on there and see what happens. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 5/26/2024 7:11:30 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By drobs: I'm also new to the mp5 platform and need to do some research on the locking piece. My Gemtech tri-lug mount (aka female 3 lug mount) works perfectly with my Zenith and the original knurled thread protector. If it didn't I'd probably just leave the thread protector off vs buying a smooth thread protector. Thanks. Will see how mine goes in with the knurled protector. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 5/26/2024 7:15:04 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mav3rick: Don't mean to hijack ops thread, but l recently bought a new unfired zenith ZF5P. I plan on running it always suppressed and l read that it is highly suggested to swap out the 100° locking piece with the 80° locking piece so the back of the receiver doesn't get beaten up. I picked up the RCM 80° new Locking piece. Using a feeler gauge l measured the gap with the original 100° LP and the gap measured at 0.010". With the new 80° LP the gap is only 0.007". Am I okay to go with such a small gap? I heard normal operating range is 0.010 to 0.020". Was hoping to get more feedback on this. |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 8:55:09 AM EDT
[#25]
We have been very pleased with the quality and cost of the MKE MP5 mags
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USA
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Posted: 5/26/2024 4:01:25 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mav3rick: Was hoping to get more feedback on this. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mav3rick: Originally Posted By Mav3rick: Don't mean to hijack ops thread, but l recently bought a new unfired zenith ZF5P. I plan on running it always suppressed and l read that it is highly suggested to swap out the 100° locking piece with the 80° locking piece so the back of the receiver doesn't get beaten up. I picked up the RCM 80° new Locking piece. Using a feeler gauge l measured the gap with the original 100° LP and the gap measured at 0.010". With the new 80° LP the gap is only 0.007". Am I okay to go with such a small gap? I heard normal operating range is 0.010 to 0.020". Was hoping to get more feedback on this. That gap is pretty tight. It will probably run, but it doesn't leave much room for wear. I would get some plusses size rollers and see if you can get it back up around the middle of the range. Or even the large end. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 5/26/2024 7:34:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Mav3rick]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Teller_Ulam: That gap is pretty tight. It will probably run, but it doesn't leave much room for wear. I would get some plusses size rollers and see if you can get it back up around the middle of the range. Or even the large end. Thanks. So you want as large of a gap as possible? I thought it was the other way around. Now that l think more about it that makes sense. Looking online standard size I am reading is 8mm and largest is 8.04MM-is that the largest you can get? Are they hard to replace? Thanks |
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USA
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Posted: 5/27/2024 1:12:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Teller_Ulam]
[#28]
As the parts wear, the bolt gap shrinks. At a .007 measurement, you're just about at the limit of the small end. Once it gets under .010, the rollers should be changed. The high end of spec is .018 but .020 is acceptable. In fact, with new parts I will shoot for .020 because after initial break in of the new rollers, it usually drops a bit.
I wish there was an exact way to tell which rollers will get you where you want to be. I put an 80 degree locking piece into my ap5p and it.dropped the bolt gap down bellow ten. I don't remember the details, but I think a +4 roller set got me to around .016. But these were used rollers from a demilled gun. There's a table somewhere on one of the HK forums that should get you close, but you probably won't be far off with a +4 or even a +6. They're fairly easy to change out. There's a tiny roll pin on top of the bolt that retains the roller retainer. Get some new roll pins when you order the rollers. They're cheap. Knock out the roll pin, pull out the rollers and roller retainer. Replace the rollers with your +4 or +6 rollers. Carefully tap the roll pin back into the retaining bar. ETA be sure to check the bolt gap properly. Drop the bolt on an empty chamber and pull trigger to drop hammer. Check the boltngap with the hammer down. Don't force the feeler gage in. It will spread the gap and give a false reading. |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 5/27/2024 2:00:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Villafuego]
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By drobs: I'm also new to the mp5 platform and need to do some research on the locking piece. My Gemtech tri-lug mount (aka female 3 lug mount) works perfectly with my Zenith and the original knurled thread protector. If it didn't I'd probably just leave the thread protector off vs buying a smooth thread protector. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By drobs: Originally Posted By Mav3rick: Don't mean to hijack ops thread, but l recently bought a new unfired zenith ZF5P. I plan on running it always suppressed and l read that it is highly suggested to swap out the 100° locking piece with the 80° locking piece so the back of the receiver doesn't get beaten up. I picked up the RCM 80° new Locking piece. Using a feeler gauge l measured the gap with the original 100° LP and the gap measured at 0.010". With the new 80° LP the gap is only 0.007". Am I okay to go with such a small gap? I heard normal operating range is 0.010 to 0.020". One other question, my plan is to shoot it suppressed via 3 lug. I take that knurled thread protector off when putting the can on? Sorry l am new to the mp5 platform. I'm also new to the mp5 platform and need to do some research on the locking piece. Originally Posted By N4KVE: My can wouldn’t fit with the knurled thread protector on, but I had read this from others. So I got a smooth thread protector online somewhere, & the can fit just fine with it. GARY. My Gemtech tri-lug mount (aka female 3 lug mount) works perfectly with my Zenith and the original knurled thread protector. If it didn't I'd probably just leave the thread protector off vs buying a smooth thread protector. You don't want to use a suppressor on a 3 lug setup with the thread protector removed ..... |
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Posted: 5/27/2024 5:29:29 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Villafuego: You don't want to use a suppressor on a 3 lug setup with the thread protector removed ..... Why is that? |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 5/27/2024 7:11:38 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By drobs: Why is that? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By drobs: Originally Posted By Villafuego: You don't want to use a suppressor on a 3 lug setup with the thread protector removed ..... Why is that? The exposed bare threads will damage the 3 lug "piston" or the threads themselves could sustain damage from excessive movement as the mount relies on contact with the TP for additional support. I've got an old Gemtech Raptor 40 and GT specifies the use of their smooth TP with their can and gives the OD measurements in the manual. |
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Posted: 5/27/2024 8:04:08 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Clicker58: The exposed bare threads will damage the 3 lug "piston" or the threads themselves could sustain damage from excessive movement as the mount relies on contact with the TP for additional support. I've got an old Gemtech Raptor 40 and GT specifies the use of their smooth TP with their can and gives the OD measurements in the manual. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Clicker58: Originally Posted By drobs: Originally Posted By Villafuego: You don't want to use a suppressor on a 3 lug setup with the thread protector removed ..... Why is that? The exposed bare threads will damage the 3 lug "piston" or the threads themselves could sustain damage from excessive movement as the mount relies on contact with the TP for additional support. I've got an old Gemtech Raptor 40 and GT specifies the use of their smooth TP with their can and gives the OD measurements in the manual. Good to know. Thanks! |
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Posted: 5/27/2024 8:07:24 AM EDT
[#33]
While I'm waiting on my MKE mags to be delivered, I'm finding the last round failure to feed is going away on the 3rd loading of the KCI magazine.
Maybe it's a break-in issue? Anyone have any reading / links they can recommend on locking pieces? Also what's the best forum for HK MP5 / SP89 clones? |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 5/28/2024 11:36:25 AM EDT
[#34]
I've got a copy of a tech bulletin from HK that states to use the 80° LP in the K when shooting suppressed. It goes on to state that the gun should function fine with the 80° LP without a suppressor. It's a wall of text but I can post it if you'd like.
I've got an older MKE K model (no 3 lug) that I run a FA pack on and it tends to jam on the next to last round in the mag. I believe this is due to the faster cyclic rate of the K simply outrunning the mag so I'm planning to try the 80° LP next range trip. This gun ran fine in semi and my HK SP89 never suffered from this type of failure with my FA pack so I may need to replace the MKE recoil spring too. |
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Posted: 5/28/2024 12:58:06 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Clicker58: I've got a copy of a tech bulletin from HK that states to use the 80° LP in the K when shooting suppressed. It goes on to state that the gun should function fine with the 80° LP without a suppressor. It's a wall of text but I can post it if you'd like. I've got an older MKE K model (no 3 lug) that I run a FA pack on and it tends to jam on the next to last round in the mag. I believe this is due to the faster cyclic rate of the K simply outrunning the mag so I'm planning to try the 80° LP next range trip. This gun ran fine in semi and my HK SP89 never suffered from this type of failure with my FA pack so I may need to replace the MKE recoil spring too. Thanks, looks like I need to order a #28 80° LP as mine has a 100° in it. What are some other items I need? Feeler gauges? |
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USA
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Posted: 5/28/2024 3:44:18 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By drobs: Thanks, looks like I need to order a #28 80° LP as mine has a 100° in it. What are some other items I need? Feeler gauges? Yes a feeler gauge set is necessary to check bolt gap. After changing a lock8ng piece it is sometimes necessary to change out the rollers to keep in the correct gap range. May as well pick up some extra extractor springs too! |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 5/28/2024 4:04:04 PM EDT
[#37]
Feeler gauges for sure and extractor springs are always a good idea. Check the hammer and try to determine if it is a modified German surplus part or cast hammer like so many of the MKE guns have. There have been reports of broken MKE cast hammers mainly due to shooting suppressed with the standard LP, a buddy of mine had this happen.
Simple fix is to modify a factory HK FA hammer (5 minutes on a bench grinder) to function as a semi. Also if your gun uses a pinned hammer spring strut I suggest going to a non-pinned strut and matching hammer especially if you're replacing a cast hammer anyway. These German surplus / used parts are cheap and several vendors sell them. One last word on extractor springs - I run a rifle spring (gray extractor spring #200445) in my full size MP5 and have for years without any problems. I have yet to replace it unlike the 9mm copper colored springs. YMMV. |
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Posted: 5/28/2024 11:19:29 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By drobs: Ran 2 partial mags through it, not quite 50rds, just now. No issues except the last round in each magazine is getting crushed. The mag spring seems a little weak. I need more more mags. Zenith recommends a 500rd break-in. MKE mags and German MP5 magazines won't have that issue. I recommend buying either the MKE Turkish mags or German MP5 magazines. |
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MP, USA
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Posted: 5/29/2024 12:38:18 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Clicker58: Feeler gauges for sure and extractor springs are always a good idea. Check the hammer and try to determine if it is a modified German surplus part or cast hammer like so many of the MKE guns have. There have been reports of broken MKE cast hammers mainly due to shooting suppressed with the standard LP, a buddy of mine had this happen. Simple fix is to modify a factory HK FA hammer (5 minutes on a bench grinder) to function as a semi. Also if your gun uses a pinned hammer spring strut I suggest going to a non-pinned strut and matching hammer especially if you're replacing a cast hammer anyway. These German surplus / used parts are cheap and several vendors sell them. One last word on extractor springs - I run a rifle spring (gray extractor spring #200445) in my full size MP5 and have for years without any problems. I have yet to replace it unlike the 9mm copper colored springs. YMMV. There is no need to modify a German hammer to function as a semi. SP5s have fullauto hammers in them. It’s a non-issue to have the autosear trip surface on the hammer. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 5/29/2024 6:29:05 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JoshNC: There is no need to modify a German hammer to function as a semi. SP5s have fullauto hammers in them. It’s a non-issue to have the autosear trip surface on the hammer. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JoshNC: Originally Posted By Clicker58: Feeler gauges for sure and extractor springs are always a good idea. Check the hammer and try to determine if it is a modified German surplus part or cast hammer like so many of the MKE guns have. There have been reports of broken MKE cast hammers mainly due to shooting suppressed with the standard LP, a buddy of mine had this happen. Simple fix is to modify a factory HK FA hammer (5 minutes on a bench grinder) to function as a semi. Also if your gun uses a pinned hammer spring strut I suggest going to a non-pinned strut and matching hammer especially if you're replacing a cast hammer anyway. These German surplus / used parts are cheap and several vendors sell them. One last word on extractor springs - I run a rifle spring (gray extractor spring #200445) in my full size MP5 and have for years without any problems. I have yet to replace it unlike the 9mm copper colored springs. YMMV. There is no need to modify a German hammer to function as a semi. SP5s have fullauto hammers in them. It’s a non-issue to have the autosear trip surface on the hammer. Yeah but the OP has a Zenith not a HK and I was referring specifically to issues with recent Century MKE imports which have experienced hammer failures. TBH I have no idea whats inside that Zenith trigger pack so you might be correct. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 5/31/2024 3:02:02 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Teller_Ulam: As the parts wear, the bolt gap shrinks. At a .007 measurement, you're just about at the limit of the small end. Once it gets under .010, the rollers should be changed. The high end of spec is .018 but .020 is acceptable. In fact, with new parts I will shoot for .020 because after initial break in of the new rollers, it usually drops a bit. I wish there was an exact way to tell which rollers will get you where you want to be. I put an 80 degree locking piece into my ap5p and it.dropped the bolt gap down bellow ten. I don't remember the details, but I think a +4 roller set got me to around .016. But these were used rollers from a demilled gun. There's a table somewhere on one of the HK forums that should get you close, but you probably won't be far off with a +4 or even a +6. They're fairly easy to change out. There's a tiny roll pin on top of the bolt that retains the roller retainer. Get some new roll pins when you order the rollers. They're cheap. Knock out the roll pin, pull out the rollers and roller retainer. Replace the rollers with your +4 or +6 rollers. Carefully tap the roll pin back into the retaining bar. ETA be sure to check the bolt gap properly. Drop the bolt on an empty chamber and pull trigger to drop hammer. Check the boltngap with the hammer down. Don't force the feeler gage in. It will spread the gap and give a false reading. Thanks for this information. Yeah when I measured, I dropped the hammer on empty chamber, flipped it over and stuck the case feeler into the gap trying not to wedge it in. Then I did the same with the 80 degree LP. To be honest, I am really disappointed that I have to mess with new larger new rollers on a new unfired gun. I guess zenith doesn't make them as well in regards to the HK spec. Not sure I even want to at this point because now I have to get larger rollers and not even sure what size. Looking online I see they go up to +10. I wish I could find this table you mentioned, but after doing some looking online I came up empty. So I would probably have to buy a couple of them in the different sizes, then install one set at a time and then measure. Seems like a pretty big hassle. Another problem is no one has any of them in stock so I would have to wait until some of them are available. To be honest I am not sure if I should just cut bait and sell this thing before I invest even more time and money into it. Which is a bummer because I was pretty excited about getting into the MP5 platform. Part of me is now looking at the stribog. Maybe sell the zenith and all the mags I have been procuring and get that. Or just sell it and not get anything-just keep shooting my EVO and banshee upper. Not sure what I want to do at this point. Wich I could get something roller or bearing delayed that was reliable out of the box with a can and not have to tweak or mess with. Just pop on can and shoot. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/31/2024 11:17:14 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mav3rick: Thanks for this information. Yeah when I measured, I dropped the hammer on empty chamber, flipped it over and stuck the case feeler into the gap trying not to wedge it in. Then I did the same with the 80 degree LP. To be honest, I am really disappointed that I have to mess with new larger new rollers on a new unfired gun. I guess zenith doesn't make them as well in regards to the HK spec. Not sure I even want to at this point because now I have to get larger rollers and not even sure what size. Looking online I see they go up to +10. I wish I could find this table you mentioned, but after doing some looking online I came up empty. So I would probably have to buy a couple of them in the different sizes, then install one set at a time and then measure. Seems like a pretty big hassle. Another problem is no one has any of them in stock so I would have to wait until some of them are available. To be honest I am not sure if I should just cut bait and sell this thing before I invest even more time and money into it. Which is a bummer because I was pretty excited about getting into the MP5 platform. Part of me is now looking at the stribog. Maybe sell the zenith and all the mags I have been procuring and get that. Or just sell it and not get anything-just keep shooting my EVO and banshee upper. Not sure what I want to do at this point. Wich I could get something roller or bearing delayed that was reliable out of the box with a can and not have to tweak or mess with. Just pop on can and shoot. To be fair to Zenith, the bolt gap almost always changes one direction or another when changing out locking pieces. Don't despair! Your bolt gap was good with the 100 degree locking piece. It will probably run fine suppressed with the 100 degreer. Just be sure to replace the recoil spring when it gets light. The 80 degree piece is suggested but lots of guys run a 100 and get by just fine. I hope you don't give up on the MP5 system. It really is sweet. Just has some quirks, like all guns. |
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Posted: 6/1/2024 10:29:12 AM EDT
[#43]
Going back to the 80 deg locking piece, will I get less gas to the face shooting suppressed / left handed?
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Posted: 6/1/2024 5:26:00 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By drobs: Going back to the 80 deg locking piece, will I get less gas to the face shooting suppressed / left handed? In my limited experience of one example with a Wolfman.. some, but not really enough to justify the change. I have tried it with 3 different kinds of factory ammo. Mine runs fine, but shooting left hand I still get some particles to the face/eye area. It might depend on what suppressor you are using. |
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Posted: 6/2/2024 9:51:15 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BlackbirdRider: In my limited experience of one example with a Wolfman.. some, but not really enough to justify the change. I have tried it with 3 different kinds of factory ammo. Mine runs fine, but shooting left hand I still get some particles to the face/eye area. It might depend on what suppressor you are using. I'm gonna look for a larger optics mount and see if that will help with gas to face. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 6/2/2024 8:35:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: HK-Slap]
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mav3rick: Thanks for this information. Yeah when I measured, I dropped the hammer on empty chamber, flipped it over and stuck the case feeler into the gap trying not to wedge it in. Then I did the same with the 80 degree LP. To be honest, I am really disappointed that I have to mess with new larger new rollers on a new unfired gun. I guess zenith doesn't make them as well in regards to the HK spec. Not sure I even want to at this point because now I have to get larger rollers and not even sure what size. Looking online I see they go up to +10. I wish I could find this table you mentioned, but after doing some looking online I came up empty. So I would probably have to buy a couple of them in the different sizes, then install one set at a time and then measure. Seems like a pretty big hassle. Another problem is no one has any of them in stock so I would have to wait until some of them are available. To be honest I am not sure if I should just cut bait and sell this thing before I invest even more time and money into it. Which is a bummer because I was pretty excited about getting into the MP5 platform. Part of me is now looking at the stribog. Maybe sell the zenith and all the mags I have been procuring and get that. Or just sell it and not get anything-just keep shooting my EVO and banshee upper. Not sure what I want to do at this point. Wich I could get something roller or bearing delayed that was reliable out of the box with a can and not have to tweak or mess with. Just pop on can and shoot. Here is the section from the HK factory SP5 armorers manual describing bolt gap adjustment... NOTE: The bolt gap will only decrease over time and use; never increase. Replacing normal size locking rollers (8.00 mm) with oversize locking rollers (8.02 mm) will enlarge the space between the bolt head and bolt head carrier. Installing Ø8.02 rollers will increase the bolt gap by 0.8 mm and installing Ø8.04 mm rollers will increase the gap by 1.6 mm. The locking rollers must always be replaced in pairs. If the space between bolt head and bolt head carrier is too small, then oversize locking rollers will have to be installed. A mark on the locking rollers indicates the size. |
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Posted: 6/21/2024 10:35:58 AM EDT
[#47]
Picked up 4 MKE mags and finding I'm now getting mid mag failures shooting un-suppressed. I'm seeing mid mag failure to fully eject. It's easily cleared but... I'm just not impressed.
Maybe I should break down and get a couple H&K mags? So far I have shot 115gr FMJ and 147gr JHP. Are these things ammo sensitive? I have some 124gr JHP I can try. I also have a Century MKE AP5 being delivered to my FFL in the next couple of days. If the AP5 runs better, I might ditch this Zenith. Derp Derp, should've bought an H&K. Yeah but... watching this vid on Reload Techniques it seems failures are so common that you want to work the bolt multiple times during reloads, as part of your manual of arms.  MP5 Reloads: Techniques and the WHY w/ Teufelshund Tactical |
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Posted: 6/21/2024 12:48:40 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By drobs: Any word on the AC-Unity mags? The one I have sucks. Just get HK mags, or at least the MKE mags. |
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Posted: 6/21/2024 1:02:37 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By drobs: Picked up 4 MKE mags and finding I'm now getting mid mag failures shooting un-suppressed. I'm seeing mid mag failure to fully eject. It's easily cleared but... I'm just not impressed. Maybe I should break down and get a couple H&K mags? So far I have shot 115gr FMJ and 147gr JHP. Are these things ammo sensitive? I have some 124gr JHP I can try. I also have a Century MKE AP5 being delivered to my FFL in the next couple of days. If the AP5 runs better, I might ditch this Zenith. Derp Derp, should've bought an H&K. Yeah but... watching this vid on Reload Techniques it seems failures are so common that you want to work the bolt multiple times during reloads, as part of your manual of arms.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLzFfM9YdJoWhich locking piece are you using when it has issues unsuppressed? If you have the suppressed locking piece in there still that is the issue I think. The simple solution is to not use cheap 115 ammo or go back to the old locking piece. If it doesn't work with 124gr to 147gr there is an issue I think. The only thing with the MP5 and hollow points is you can't use the old straight HK mags. Those only work with FMJ. |
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Posted: 6/21/2024 1:50:29 PM EDT
[#50]
You may want to take the brace adapter off and inspect it for clearance. I have an MKE "K" version with an SB brace.
I had to file a notch in the receiver extension (sorry if my terminology isn't correct- it is the piece that has the H shaped buffer attached to it that pins onto the rear of the receiver). The bottom lug where the pin goes through was solid on the brace adapter. There is a rod at the rear of the trigger group that guides the hammer spring. It extends beyond the rear of the trigger group and it was contacting the solid receiver extension. I had failures to eject and feed stoppages. I think all it was was due to binding. I filed a notch for clearance in the aluminum receiver extension and the problems disappeared. |
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