Armory Sponsor
Posted: 8/4/2026 9:38:27 AM EDT
|
I have a couple of questions and it sort of splits into 2 different groups, but I think it may help others during the upgrade path. 1. If you started with a device and upgraded it, what prompted you to do so and how significant was the upgrade? Looking back was it worth it? 2. If you currently own a device, but have not upgraded (but plan to), what are you hoping to accomplish with that upgrade that your existing device is currently not meeting? I'll go first. I fall into cat 1. 1. I started a long time ago with an old broken Litton M942 that I bought used on ebay that arrived broken. I joined this specific forum trying to get help on how to helmet mount that device. I ended up upgrading a whole lot from that time until now. I upgraded to a PVS-7, and while i loved bioular vision, the lack of depth perception had my moving into dual PVS-14's, which eventually moved into dedicated binos (anvis), and after many horse trades, I am currently rocking an LLI MH-1 with some filmless tubes I bought new in 2016 from Rich (nv2go) before he merged with UNV. I'm still rocking those same high FOM green filmless tubes. Looking back, my upgrade path was absolutely worth it as my needs changed over increasing demand and usage. I have quite a bit of time under NODs at this point and most of my time is actually outdoor activities and less 2A type stuff. My favorite usage is still stargazing with my kids laying down on the deck and just staring up into the sky. If I upgrade again, I would probably need something over 2700 FOM (72lp/mm 37+ SNR) with low EBI and filmless. I now find myself picking up more niche stuff - like I did recently pick up some Photonis intens tubes to play around with. They are cool, but still don't really hold a candle to my filmless tubes in raw performance in darkness. They are outstanding for mixed lighting conditions. |
Joined:
Aug 2026
Posts:
20
EE: 0% (0)
ZAF
|
I started with a AN-PVS 22 (clip on) then added a MARS mount which cost almost as much as the 22's once I paid a gunsmith to install it on my Remmy 700. I do so love the ability to use my day scope and then clip on the 22's for night use. Ive got a PVS-14 and a set of duals helmet mounted which are nice and super cool if Im ever facing a PIER+ level opponent which seems unlikely Ive been playing with digital stuff lately. I bought them mainly as loner units, figuring sub $500 was easier to justify if my brother in law ever broke them. Then I found some of the better digital stuff from Syonics still digital but offering full colour to better identify threats vs the neighbor. The Auroa units are sub $1000 and what I would consider better than the brother in law deserves. The Syonics Opsyn unit is very good as in good enough to drive with. Of course digital units require an IR light source, so anyone with any NV will see your IR light BUT in an urban/suburban area theres a lot of IR pollution from alarms and garage doors, so the digital can be used without too much concern.... Strictly for HOG hunting I picked up a Sightmark Mini Wraith to mount on a magfed 12ga. The optic is fine but the battery life is too short for serious use (and again it needs a IR source--which is included). NV rules the night! |
|
1. If you started with a device and upgraded it, what prompted you to do so and how significant was the upgrade? Looking back was it worth it? Started with a Sionyx, then a PVS-14. From trying other Cola Bros setups, realized how much better binos are. Also was tired of being called a poor. Went with RNVG type housing and high spec tubes. 2. If you currently own a device, but have not upgraded (but plan to), what are you hoping to accomplish with that upgrade that your existing device is currently not meeting? Now that articulating housings are a lot more durable, I may put existing tubes into some. But I'm not really hurting for it. I dig my Aeturnus housing. |
"I said,'I don't know how to vomit softly.' That's like telling someone to shit perfume."
|
Originally Posted By chosos: I have a couple of questions and it sort of splits into 2 different groups, but I think it may help others during the upgrade path. 1. If you started with a device and upgraded it, what prompted you to do so and how significant was the upgrade? Looking back was it worth it? 2. If you currently own a device, but have not upgraded (but plan to), what are you hoping to accomplish with that upgrade that your existing device is currently not meeting? I'll go first. I fall into cat 1. 1. I started a long time ago with an old broken Litton M942 that I bought used on ebay that arrived broken. I joined this specific forum trying to get help on how to helmet mount that device. I ended up upgrading a whole lot from that time until now. I upgraded to a PVS-7, and while i loved bioular vision, the lack of depth perception had my moving into dual PVS-14's, which eventually moved into dedicated binos (anvis), and after many horse trades, I am currently rocking an LLI MH-1 with some filmless tubes I bought new in 2016 from Rich (nv2go) before he merged with UNV. I'm still rocking those same high FOM green filmless tubes. Looking back, my upgrade path was absolutely worth it as my needs changed over increasing demand and usage. I have quite a bit of time under NODs at this point and most of my time is actually outdoor activities and less 2A type stuff. My favorite usage is still stargazing with my kids laying down on the deck and just staring up into the sky. If I upgrade again, I would probably need something over 2700 FOM (72lp/mm 37+ SNR) with low EBI and filmless. I now find myself picking up more niche stuff - like I did recently pick up some Photonis intens tubes to play around with. They are cool, but still don't really hold a candle to my filmless tubes in raw performance in darkness. They are outstanding for mixed lighting conditions. 1) I began with a high spec PVS14 mono and TW helmet with Norotos INVG Hyper. It was a really good setup, but one night I was hiking and heard a noise (we have all sorts of coyote, and so forth, and one night later I actually got charged by a coyote, so the fear was valid) and not being able to see out of one eye caused a lot of stress. If you've had it happen, you get it. So, I bought an RNVG with L3 UF WP tubes. I felt a lot less stress! Then I tracked a coyote into the brush...I realized he could blend in super easily. I needed thermal. This led to the TNVC TAD being integrated into my setup. I saw so many animals that I didn't know were out and about, pre-thermal. It was life changing. Then I began wanting the ability to roll a pod up, etc. so I bought an RNVG-A and sold the RNVG, and put Supergain tubes in the RNVGA, or rather, TNVC did. This was excellent, but it was evident the RNVGA was a rough draft. Just some ergonomics on it are not to my liking, and the auto shut-off to a pod went bad. I took that opportunity to ask TNVC to put my SG tubes into an MGA housing and put the EGAC tails back on to make them manual gain. Now I am currently running the MGA and TNVC TAD with SG UF WP tubes, and it's perfect. Along the way I upgraded to an Ops carbon helmet and G24, and then to a Nocturn Alpha. For hunting, I use a TNVC UF WP SG PVS14 and a Sidekick 640 PRO on a Rayvn Rail with Nocturn Alpha. I used the Sidekick 640, prior, and it has been refined by the Pro notably. Those are my two setups, and the latter of which seems to get the most use. 2) I don't really plan to evolve these further. They do exactly what I need, and any improvements will be very slight/not worth it to me, until a real leap in technology happens or FBINO becomes readily available. Evolution: Attached File Attached File Attached File Huge shout-out to Cam, Andres, Shelby, Augee, and Will, as well as the fine folks at Safran O1 that put up with me while the TAD was getting sorted. I credit them with this journey going so fun. A special thanks also to Helix Energy Solutions who turned my $2800 into $9K during COVID and allowing me to dip my toe into this world. They fueled a terribly expensive hobby/addiction. |
|
@Chosos I researched for a few years while saving up and started with some nice gp elbits in dtnvs housing. I wanted to start out with something I could grow into and probably not really need to upgrade. I actually text with you a while ago as I was hunting down deals. If I were to upgrade it would need to be wp and maybe manual gain. Raptor housing with L3 filmless 2376+ tubes with RPO 4.0 sounds pretty nice! |
|
Originally Posted By JohnDough: For hunting, I use a TNVC UF WP SG PVS14 and a Sidekick 640 PRO on a Rayvn Rail with Nocturn Alpha. I used the Sidekick 640, prior, and it has been refined by the Pro notably. Those are my two setups, and the latter of which seems to get the most use. 2) I don't really plan to evolve these further. They do exactly what I need, and any improvements will be very slight/not worth it to me, until a real leap in technology happens or FBINO becomes readily available. . Are you running the dual band at the same time for the most part, or are you using the thermal as-needed? If you could only keep 1 of the setups, which would it be? |
| Kind of depends how often you use them. I bought a used pvs-14 like a decade ago and have been more than happy with that. A monocular keeps the cost down and is sufficient for civilian use, also nice for secondary uses like night hiking or star gazing. I attend night time shoots on occasion and have tried dual tubes, they are nice but not worth the extra money IMO. But hey it’s your money so you do you! |
"I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery". - Thomas Jefferson
|
Originally Posted By chosos: Are you running the dual band at the same time for the most part, or are you using the thermal as-needed? If you could only keep 1 of the setups, which would it be? Dual band 98% of the time, collimated. This is why I went with the sidekick 640 family. They can be collimated. Id keep the binos and TAD. I would then find a way to get back the other setup, as they really are unique to their purpose. |
|
I started with a Gen2 PVS14 with a DBAL D2, went out for a night shoot who all had Gen3 Omni VII Sentinels with 9007. We where in a canyon and I spanked them in the illumination and was able to connect out to 400, but when we all went passive and my buddy said hit the 100 yard steel I said what 100 yard steel. That's when I upgraded the tube to a Gen3 Omni VII. Of course depth perception was ok with a mono so I added a PVS7 to the mix. When funds allowed I added a BNVD which turned out to be stolen (Lamneth (hope all the time you spent in jail was head down butt up), had to turn them in, got a refund from the government (Thank you agent Hunter Durham you're a good man that got called back home way too early) got a smoking deal from Robert aka Lowdosn3 JRHEnerprises because he wanted to help the community members that was unknowingly affected. My take is a OMNI VII will definitely get the job done at the lowest cost, but if driving with NODs is a requirement then Binos are the way to go. As far as WP vs GP it depends on the specs and cost. |
|
Originally Posted By chosos: I am so glad you were made whole on that situation - I hope everyone was. I had to google the guy again. He had so many NV related patents... It looks like he was sentenced to 18 months back in 2020. Agent Durham, went way above and beyond. He specifically asked the Judge that everyone that got scammed was part of the restitution that Lemneth had to pay back. The prosecutor argued against it saying that buying items of unknown origin is the fault of the buyer. It was extremely sad when someone here posted about agent Durham passing and I wish there was a way for me to reach out to the family to thank them for his service and offer my condolences to them directly. |
Joined:
Apr 2022
Posts:
615
EE: 100% (7)
CO, USA
|
I kinda fit into both camps. I started with a used gen 3 green pvs-14 that was comparable to what I used in the Army. Was on a hike with that and was surprised when I ran into another hiker through some brush that I couldn't see at all. I think they were aware of me before I was aware of them. I realized I needed some thermal capability. I eventually "upgraded" to a dual spectrum setup with an RH25 but I haven't used it much. Before the thermal however, I had bought a second green pvs-14 that matched my first one to try out a dual setup since so many people claim its soo much better. I didn't want to commit to dual tubes in a dedicated housing, becasue I valued the ability to share a pvs 14 with someone else. I personally didn't feel that the second tube was of much value at all to me. I run my pvs-14 over my dominant eye and feel perfectly comfortable with a single tube. I also regularly use my non- dominant eye to check if lights are IR or white light (like from a security camera). THe only benefit I noticed was that passive aiming through a red dot was significantly better since the tube that doesn't look through the optic is giving your brain a clearer picture than the tube that looks through the optic. I'm not too worried about that and prefer to have the thermal capability on my head than a second tube. HOWEVER, I rarely use the thermal because my night activities are mostly target shooting with friends who largely don't have NVGs. So I primarily share my second pvs 14 and just run the one pvs14 myself. target shooting with thermals kinda sucks so I don't use the thermal that much. So I "upgraded" but have settled most of the time on my original gen 3 pvs 14. I don't feel the need to upgrade the tube to unfilmed or duals but If I got a killer deal on some I probably would. |
| im glad i came across this thread.i currently have a wp pvs 14 i bought jrh,a older green tube pvs 14 with the 2 battery housing and descent(not sure on gen)pvs7..i also have a flir breach and a pulsar talion xq35 pro for thermals..i will start by saying , ive only ever got to shoot at night twice.once was at a private event and the other was a coyote hunt.while this gear works fine,im kind of bored with it and feel like starting over.i do use this stuff often cruising the forest preserve at night.ive watched a bunch of videos on the rh25 and it seems like it would be a good upgrade for the breach..im just stuck on the nv part.can i get a descent set of duals for 4500-6000k?.i dont require operater level stuff,perhaps image quality comparable to my wp unit.anyway,thanks for your consideration. |
|
I started off with a TNVC green screen PVS14 and was using it recreationally and professionally. Immediately decided duals were the way to go for anything cqb. Ended up with personal dual tubes (Elbit white phos). Our team ended up issuing out TNVC filmless duals later on. Here's my learning point... Duals are a huge advantage and the high specs are seriously worth it from a professional standpoint. For my personal gear, I'm going back to a cheap gen 3 green screen PVS14 (minimum Omni VI). In my opinion, the juice isn't worth the squeeze for me to have my own money tied up in high spec duals. The performance difference from a quality Gen 3 PVS14 to in some cases 4x the cost is just not worth it to me. If you got the disposable income; do it!. I however, have a limit to what I feel comfortable having invested in toys, so I'd rather have a well rounded kit (comms, rifle, sustainment, thermal, etc.) as opposed to all that cash into duals and lacking on other gear. Another random experience to add in... We had a callout in thick woods with overcast skies. The 11k filmless duals did almost nothing for us. Point being, there are sometimes other tools needed for the job. Also considering that camouflage also works at night, the NVGs don't magically help you see someone waiting to ambush. I happened to have a handheld FLIR during that op and that was the ticket. |
|
I used a 14 in the Marines. Then came to a gov civilian job and started with a 14, moved to 15's and then 31's. I had a personal 14 that I used mostly for observation and occasional shooting, but then spent a week at work under 31's. I came home and finally made the leap. JRH was having a sale, and after he rebuilt my 14, I decided to sell it and get some WP Katanas. This year, I've been training both personally and professionally a lot more than I have in the past, and that training is just as much night as it is day. It was time. I could never afford NV, but saved cash and flipped some gear to make it happen. I'm glad I did. I'm lucky that I can spend 8k, as most folks can't do that. I'm also lucky that a lot of my toys are provided by work. I have 3 separate helmet setups, and they all came from my job. |
|
Originally Posted By 10-8DoWork: I started off with a TNVC green screen PVS14 and was using it recreationally and professionally. Immediately decided duals were the way to go for anything cqb. Ended up with personal dual tubes (Elbit white phos). Our team ended up issuing out TNVC filmless duals later on. Here's my learning point... Duals are a huge advantage and the high specs are seriously worth it from a professional standpoint. For my personal gear, I'm going back to a cheap gen 3 green screen PVS14 (minimum Omni VI). In my opinion, the juice isn't worth the squeeze for me to have my own money tied up in high spec duals. The performance difference from a quality Gen 3 PVS14 to in some cases 4x the cost is just not worth it to me. If you got the disposable income; do it!. I however, have a limit to what I feel comfortable having invested in toys, so I'd rather have a well rounded kit (comms, rifle, sustainment, thermal, etc.) as opposed to all that cash into duals and lacking on other gear. Another random experience to add in... We had a callout in thick woods with overcast skies. The 11k filmless duals did almost nothing for us. Point being, there are sometimes other tools needed for the job. Also considering that camouflage also works at night, the NVGs don't magically help you see someone waiting to ambush. I happened to have a handheld FLIR during that op and that was the ticket. Hunting coyote in thick brush taught me that. I felt naked as hell. Now I run bridged thermal or an ecoti type. |
|
can i get a descent set of duals for 4500-6000k?.i dont require operater level stuff,perhaps image quality comparable to my wp unit.anyway,thanks for your consideration. You are in the budget for duals at that pricing. At 4500 you're in used gen 3 green phos. at 6k you're at new (lower end) /used white phos levels. |
|
I started with a set of pvs7s and loved them but the draw of "more" led me to buying a monocular (an ENVIS tube/optics in an AB Pitbull housing), I liked it from the limited time I played with it but still wanted more so very soon after I upgraded to an autogated pvs14. ...then I spent a lot of hours under a monocular and realized it made my head start to hurt after just 30 minutes to an hour of continuous use. That discovery had me wishing I still had those simple pvs7s...so naturally I bought a pair of binos (ANVIS-6s) and now everything is right in the world. 
|
Armory Sponsor