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Posted: 5/2/2024 10:06:42 PM EDT
Finally had a chance to test my can with 220gr AAC subs and 220gr. Stealth. Both were SERIOUSLY impressive with sound! Like bolt clacking quiet! However, compared to my Hornady (forget the model but have a red solid tip)..... they were hitting different on the target so maybe the deceased velocity or something?? Anyway, thoughts on using subs for HD?
Thanks! |
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Posted: 5/2/2024 10:12:27 PM EDT
[#1]
Why not? I wouldn’t use 220 gr. though. Lehigh defense or SubX would be my choice for subs.
I use Barnes 110 tac-tx in my bedside larp gun. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/2/2024 10:13:26 PM EDT
[#2]
Subs are a blast for plinking steel without hearing protection, but I switch back to supers for home defense. I want rifle velocities if my life or a family member's is in jeopardy. The .300 blackout supers still have relatively tame sound levels when suppressed.
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Posted: 5/2/2024 10:17:05 PM EDT
[#3]
I'd have no issues using Hornady Sub-X for self defense.
They are designed to expand at sub velocities and at the around the house distances, I'd say they're pretty close to perfect AND I don't have to worry about waking the neighbors. |
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Posted: 5/2/2024 10:19:03 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TulaneBME: Subs are a blast for plinking steel without hearing protection, but I switch back to supers for home defense. I want rifle velocities if my life or a family member's is in jeopardy. The .300 blackout supers still have relatively tame sound levels when suppressed. Truth. This man knows. |
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Posted: 5/2/2024 10:20:16 PM EDT
[#5]
The first 3 rounds in my hd 300 are subx, the rest are 110 varmageddon. I figure if I need more than 3 to stop something screw my hearing. Gun is suppressed so it still wont be that bad.
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KS, USA
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Posted: 5/2/2024 10:20:49 PM EDT
[#6]
3 220 grain expanding 300blk rounds to the thoracic cavity is...just fine and dandy.
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Posted: 5/2/2024 10:20:59 PM EDT
[#7]
sub-x or leigh. my second floor master is on the same level as both my neighbors' multiple kids bedrooms, so I have subs or frangible 556 as the first mag then full send supers god forbid we have go to mag 2.
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Posted: 5/2/2024 10:25:01 PM EDT
[#8]
Subs have comparable muzzle energy to .45 ACP +P or 10mm, so it'll certainly get the job done if that's all you have. Supers are significantly better though.
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Posted: 5/2/2024 10:27:14 PM EDT
[#9]
I start to worry more and more about defeating body armor, so velocity for me.
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Posted: 5/2/2024 10:28:16 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TulaneBME: Subs are a blast for plinking steel without hearing protection, but I switch back to supers for home defense. I want rifle velocities if my life or a family member's is in jeopardy. The .300 blackout supers still have relatively tame sound levels when suppressed. This is why. Rifle velocities. |
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Posted: 5/2/2024 10:29:04 PM EDT
[#11]
Pistol ballistics don't typically end gun fights quickly. Meaning if you use a subsonic, which has pistol like terminal ballistics, you are leaving a lot up to the bad guy. Does he run away after being shot, or attack you?
Rifle ballistics, such as .300 supers, tend to end the threat. So the question is, which scenario do you prefer at home defense distances? I keep supers in my home defense .300 BLK. |
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Posted: 5/2/2024 10:37:25 PM EDT
[#12]
I have subs loaded in mine and feel adequate enough. Plenty of people have relied on a 1911 45 acp ball ammo with results.
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Posted: 5/2/2024 10:38:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Kingdead]
[#13]
What is the penetration of drywall with subs vs supers? I thought big, heavy, and slow projectiles are way worse for over penetration in drywall. Isn't 556 from a long barrel actually much more forgiving about over penetration through drywall?
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Posted: 5/2/2024 10:39:38 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ThrustMyStoma: sub-x or leigh. my second floor master is on the same level as both my neighbors' multiple kids bedrooms, so I have subs or frangible 556 as the first mag then full send supers god forbid we have go to mag 2. thrustinME w your knowledge. |
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Posted: 5/2/2024 10:39:40 PM EDT
[#15]
Even an expanding subsonic bullet will basically perform just like a pistol round, maybe a bit bigger width of damage is all. Need rifle velocities for rifle performance. Just something to know.
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Posted: 5/2/2024 10:39:45 PM EDT
[#16]
Nothing wrong with everything already mentioned. I use S&B 200 grain subs in mine for no particular reason other than I had a bunch of it on-hand, and they are 100% reliable. 2 or 3 shots to the upper body with supers or subs will make almost anyone take the room temperature challenge.
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Posted: 5/2/2024 10:44:48 PM EDT
[#17]
Like a few others have already written, I prefer 110 grain supers for rifle instead of pistol velocity. And even those out of an 8” barrel aren’t exactly speedsters.
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IL, USA
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Posted: 5/2/2024 10:46:32 PM EDT
[#18]
Supers for HD.
Those Hornady red tips you have are my ammo of choice for HD. 110gr Hornady V-max. The other really good (great ammo) is 110gr Barnes Tac-tx. Subs, and Tac-tx are more likely to go through a dozen walls. V-max (and 110gr Varmageddon) will still go through several walls, but will break apart quite a bit more. Also, supers can defeat level IIIA armor. Non expanding subs (FMJ, OTM's) can defeat level II armor, but are obviously poor ballistically. Expanding subs are good, but expensive, and won't defeat level II armor. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/2/2024 10:47:09 PM EDT
[#19]
It's the main reason to use 300bo imo. Retaining your ability to hear what's going in around you is a big deal, so sacrificing the superior ballistics of supersonic projectiles is worth it for a go-to gun.
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USA
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Posted: 5/2/2024 10:52:28 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TulaneBME: Subs are a blast for plinking steel without hearing protection, but I switch back to supers for home defense. I want rifle velocities if my life or a family member's is in jeopardy. The .300 blackout supers still have relatively tame sound levels when suppressed. Not only this, but I've had a lot more failure to feeds with subs than with supers. |
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Posted: 5/2/2024 10:54:20 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TulaneBME: Subs are a blast for plinking steel without hearing protection, but I switch back to supers for home defense. I want rifle velocities if my life or a family member's is in jeopardy. The .300 blackout supers still have relatively tame sound levels when suppressed. This. |
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Posted: 5/2/2024 10:57:12 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By right_rudder: I'd have no issues using Hornady Sub-X for self defense. They are designed to expand at sub velocities and at the around the house distances, I'd say they're pretty close to perfect AND I don't have to worry about waking the neighbors. Screw the neighbors when your life is on the line. Even cheap soft body armor stops expanding subs. I'm not saying every guy breaking in will have soft armor but it is dirt cheap and weightless and decently effective vs pistol calibers and the like. MAC did a video on it. After watching it I switched from Lehigh 194s to 110gr Black Tips. |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 5/2/2024 11:01:05 PM EDT
[#23]
Bad wind noise on this one, but great info. They had a specific note at the end about 110gr V-max because while it still penetrated 18 boards, it had shed a ton of its weight after 8 boards).
The 205gr Gorilla penetrated 19 boards and was stopped by a 2x4.  Drywall Penetration Test with 300 Blackout and 12 Ga They also tested 5.56 and 9mm (with less wind) that same day. Those vids are available as well. The round the penetrated the least is the one no one would use. 5.56 V-max out of a 16" barrel. |
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Posted: 5/2/2024 11:01:31 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Subpar: I use Barnes 110 tac-tx in my bedside larp gun. |
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Posted: 5/2/2024 11:05:19 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By panthermark: Bad wind noise on this one, but great info. They had a specific note at the end about 110gr V-max because while it still penetrated 18 boards, it had shed a ton of its weight after 8 boards). The 205gr Gorilla penetrated 19 boards and was stopped by a 2x4.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaabg9tCF48They also tested 5.56 and 9mm (with less wind) that same day. Those vids are available as well. The round the penetrated the least is the one no one would use. 5.56 V-max out of a 16" barrel. |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 5/2/2024 11:10:28 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kingdead: Cool. I thought velocity actually helps the round break up if you are concerned with over-penetration. Isn't that the same as the wounding of 5.56 at short range vs long range after it lost some of it's velocity. Yup, too much velocity can actually cause less penetration. That can be good or bad depending on the task and range. 50gr Vmax out of a 16" barrel at point blank range? Too little penetration (too rapid fragmentation) 200 yards down range? Golden zone 500 yards down range? Velocity is too low, poor to zero fragmentation, over penetration. It is a like science. |
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Posted: 5/2/2024 11:10:34 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Brian01: It's the main reason to use 300bo imo. Retaining your ability to hear what's going in around you is a big deal, so sacrificing the superior ballistics of supersonic projectiles is worth it for a go-to gun.  Ew brother ew what's that brother meme Imagine being in a gunfight and thinking that the thing you need to win a gun fight is less important than the one time noise event that is below or slightly exceeds OSHA standards. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/2/2024 11:12:00 PM EDT
[#28]
I've shot some hogs (~150 lbs) with sub 300BLK and was not amazed by the terminal performance. Good haunch shots and the pig just looked back like "What else ya got" and took off running. Twice.
Yes, there's some better rounds out there, but I decided I wasn't going to use subs for humane kills and quick stops after that. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 5/2/2024 11:13:42 PM EDT
[#29]
Probably an unpopular answer, but I keep Sub X loaded next to the bed.
I train often with my 300blk, mostly 110g Vmax and various subs. I'm comfortable and confident using subs. My reasoning is hearing and situational awareness loss. I've done bangers, grenades, and lots of rounds exchanged insides places around Baghdad. Even with coms over the ears it still fried my shit. With cops undoubtedly on the way, a family, etc I'll take my chances with less power, and more awareness. |
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Posted: 5/2/2024 11:19:23 PM EDT
[#30]
Subs are probably fine for the average home intruder, but the difference in terminal ballistics between subs and super is vast, and as someone who has shot deer with both subs and supers in 300blk my own experiences strongly confirm that.
I keep Barnes 110gr TAC-TX in my suppressed beside gun. |
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Posted: 5/2/2024 11:21:48 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By right_rudder: I'd have no issues using Hornady Sub-X for self defense. They are designed to expand at sub velocities and at the around the house distances, I'd say they're pretty close to perfect AND I don't have to worry about waking the neighbors. I've filled my freezer multiple times with sub x. Our deer are smaller than people and it expands and breaks stuff just fine. I have some sig v crown to try when I get to it since it's easier to get local. |
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Posted: 5/2/2024 11:22:53 PM EDT
[#32]
Originally Posted By Emt1581: Finally had a chance to test my can with 220gr AAC subs and 220gr. Stealth. Both were SERIOUSLY impressive with sound! Like bolt clacking quiet! However, compared to my Hornady (forget the model but have a red solid tip)..... they were hitting different on the target so maybe the deceased velocity or something?? Anyway, thoughts on using subs for HD? Thanks! Holy fuck… if you thought a 9mm went thru a lot of layers of drywall….. |
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Posted: 5/2/2024 11:25:46 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By panthermark: Supers for HD. Those Hornady red tips you have are my ammo of choice for HD. 110gr Hornady V-max. The other really good (great ammo) is 110gr Barnes Tac-tx. Subs, and Tac-tx are more likely to go through a dozen walls. V-max (and 110gr Varmageddon) will still go through several walls, but will break apart quite a bit more. Also, supers can defeat level IIIA armor. Non expanding subs (FMJ, OTM's) can defeat level II armor, but are obviously poor ballistically. Expanding subs are good, but expensive, and won't defeat level II armor. I understand the armor debate but also don't. You've got 30 to work with. If the first 3 don't get their attention, pelvic girdle. Can't move is going to end the threat plenty quick. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/2/2024 11:27:28 PM EDT
[#34]
I would be worried what a jury would think.
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Posted: 5/2/2024 11:31:34 PM EDT
[#35]
I have yet to shoot anyone but my bag gun has the 110gr vmax Hornady loaded up. 10.5" barrel.
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Posted: 5/2/2024 11:32:30 PM EDT
[#36]
I was underwhelmed by how Hornady Subsonic 190gr SUB-X performed on deer. It worked, but I fear that if I hadn't poked a hole in their heart they would have gotten away. It's definiteoly one of the quieter rounds but it won't cycle my 7" AR, while other subs do.
Completely unscientifically, Hornady Subsonic 190gr only barely made a dent on a Temu 2.3mm "ballistic plate" from 50 yards. 
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/2/2024 11:45:29 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Subpar: Why not? I wouldn't use 220 gr. though. Lehigh defense or SubX would be my choice for subs. I use Barnes 110 tac-tx in my bedside larp gun. Gotta be very sure of where you're pointing though, LD stuff doesn't tend to stop unless it hits soft stuff. It's pretty barrier blind. In my situation that's great, but I know that's fairly rare. |
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Posted: 5/2/2024 11:58:27 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thenning: I would be worried what a jury would think. Why so? |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 12:06:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Scoobysmak]
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rat_Patrol: I start to worry more and more about defeating body armor, so velocity for me. I am going to have to have a gun inside the house and one for outside the house. Outside I have covered but inside not sure what I am going to do. I would like to be able to hear again but need enough energy and fragmentation to stop the threat but don't too much to go through 87 walls, the fewer the better. The only subsonic stuff I am familiar with is: 300 BLK 8.6 BLK <----might have name messed up what it is called but new round that a youtuber reviewed....think it was Grand Thumb but probably have the name wrong as well 22LR with some ammo/gun combo 9mm if heavy enough bullet and using a shorter barrel, not sure if how quite this could get though ETA...well maybe not, I worry more about penetrating to many walls much more than my hearing.....though I do like my hearing...besides the RRRRREEEEEE....  . If super sonic ammo stops first because it broke apart on impact and the perp is down hard its a win win loose. I will take the one L.
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 5/3/2024 1:17:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Beretta_Jerry]
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: Pistol ballistics don't typically end gun fights quickly. Meaning if you use a subsonic, which has pistol like terminal ballistics, you are leaving a lot up to the bad guy. Does he run away after being shot, or attack you? Rifle ballistics, such as .300 supers, tend to end the threat. So the question is, which scenario do you prefer at home defense distances? I keep supers in my home defense .300 BLK. Above. Picture you're on the witness stand when the family of the decedent retains some sleazeball attorney when you're being cross-examined in a civil trial that you shot burglar Honest Abe 11 times. Vs a 55 m193 grain pop. Eta: won't get into the controversy, but a thoracic helpin' of 00 from your fowlin' piece will have similar results. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/3/2024 1:40:13 AM EDT
[#41]
Sub-x's suck. My go to's are Lehigh 194gr ME or Discreet Ballistics 188gr for the house/property. I have thoroughly tested these rounds in my 5.5" centurion upper and they work great and reliably.
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Posted: 5/3/2024 11:27:10 AM EDT
[#42]
This thread has been good for leads on more types of subs, but my wallet is going to hate me.
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Posted: 5/3/2024 11:35:56 AM EDT
[#43]
Lol I’ll stick to supers for killing things. Subs poke holes in things, but there are far better tools for the job.
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AL, USA
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Posted: 5/3/2024 11:39:43 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By veritas8985: Not only this, but I've had a lot more failure to feeds with subs than with supers. I've had zero luck with anything flat tipped. Sub-x, even any OTM that barely has a blunt nose. As long as it has a point any weight or projectile length has been fine. I haven't had a chance to try any Diff't mags tho. I hope that's it |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/3/2024 11:54:25 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ThrustMyStoma: sub-x or leigh. my second floor master is on the same level as both my neighbors' multiple kids bedrooms, so I have subs or frangible 556 as the first mag then full send supers god forbid we have go to mag 2. I've thought about using frangibles for HD for similar reasons but my understanding is that they should not be used with a can? |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 11:54:32 AM EDT
[#46]
Barnes blacktips loaded for me, also have electronic muffs hanging on the bed rail. Amplified hearing would be a bonus, plus suppressed supers arent ear shattering loud.
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Posted: 5/3/2024 11:58:59 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kel: I've shot some hogs (~150 lbs) with sub 300BLK and was not amazed by the terminal performance. Good haunch shots and the pig just looked back like "What else ya got" and took off running. Twice. Yes, there's some better rounds out there, but I decided I wasn't going to use subs for humane kills and quick stops after that. This. 300BLK is at this point well known as a very shitty round for hogs compared to just about anything else. Even supersonic. I can't believe people truly consider it for HD. |
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NJ, USA
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Posted: 5/3/2024 12:00:54 PM EDT
[#48]
Supers all the way.
Some y’all need to get out and kill some things or do some reading. Rifle > 9mm which is pretty much what 300 subs try to be |
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NE, USA
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Posted: 5/3/2024 12:03:25 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bradpierson26: Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bradpierson26: Originally Posted By Subpar: I use Barnes 110 tac-tx in my bedside larp gun. 
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AL, USA
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Posted: 5/3/2024 12:08:45 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Subpar: Why not? I wouldn't use 220 gr. though. Lehigh defense or SubX would be my choice for subs. I use Barnes 110 tac-tx in my bedside larp gun. |
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