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Posted: 2/13/2024 8:03:17 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. I like .38 Special, but .327 Federal Magnum does .38 Special things so much better. Revolver fans that don't want to try it are really missing out. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 327fed is arguably better in a small pistol since you can get 6 in it. only issue is availability of ammo/guns. This. I like .38 Special, but .327 Federal Magnum does .38 Special things so much better. Revolver fans that don't want to try it are really missing out. |
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Posted: 2/13/2024 8:13:40 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I like it but would have hated to have been reliant on it defensively back in the day, if some of the stories I heard were any indication. 38-44 rounds are more powerful than 38+p. Love my s&w heavy duty 
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Posted: 2/13/2024 8:24:03 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I had my .45 colt mtn gun cut for moon clips. .45 acp looses like 200fps in the colt chambers So i use .45 win mag brass and load them to mid range .45 colt levels. That's so cool lol /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/toast_gif-994.gif Trying out some 250gr xtps over 18gr enforcer right now. Looking for 1000fps. |
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Posted: 2/13/2024 9:05:39 PM EDT
[#4]
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Posted: 2/13/2024 9:13:44 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have yet to shoot my .38 special. I know if I do, I'll want to shoot it all the time... It wasas my grandfathers and he never shot it much either, and he bought it from his brother-in-law. It is 100 years old this year and is mint  https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/91056/e1gjgfvf-1252042.jpg That Model 1905, 4th Change is gorgeous! FYI, S&W only used those grip panels without the medallions for a few years in the mid-1920s. I have the target version of your gun, made in the same time frame. I'll shoot it with .38 wadcutters every so often.  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/13/2024 9:19:24 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Those top breaks just seem to exude class. A dignified weapon for a more civilized time. |
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Posted: 2/13/2024 9:26:24 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It doesn’t really matter if it is going 800, 900, or 1000 fps. It’s a handgun cartridge. It will not reliably kill a human with one shot. But it really doesn’t need to. It only needs to convince some piece of shit to stop robbing you or stop assaulting you. Two .38 spl slugs to the sternum will do that almost all the time. Except when they don't, and two FBI agents are dead as a result. Or was that the 9mm Silvertip? There is a reason .38 spl is no longer used for Law Enforcement. Arresting felons is a totally different scenario than repelling a piece of shit trying to mug you. 99.9% of muggers will break off the attack if you put two slugs into their chest.  Attached Fileoh now you done did it 
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Posted: 2/13/2024 9:26:54 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What 9mm pushes a 158gr bullet to 1250fps? Or even 1000fps? Which is my normal swc load. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I think the 38 Special is a fine target load. It’s accurate, it’s fun to shoot, and it gives people more of a true shooting experience versus rimfire. It’s also great to have a revolver and a lever action car being that will shoot the same ammunition. But I don’t think I would’ve bought a 38 special revolver if I had not Ended up with thousands of rounds of ammunition. Ballistically I was always told that the 38 special even if it’s hottest loads falls short of the 9 mm pabulum. I’m guessing that is still true. What 9mm pushes a 158gr bullet to 1250fps? Or even 1000fps? Which is my normal swc load. Probably not 9x19, but with 38SA, I've worked up 158gr to 1175fps. Might be able to do better with a different powder. |
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Posted: 2/13/2024 9:31:16 PM EDT
[#9]
This time of year my LCR in .38 is my go-to. I love shooting .38s in my SP-101. Next I think I want a 7-shot Tracker with a 4 inch barrel.
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Posted: 2/13/2024 9:32:58 PM EDT
[#10]
It's a lot of fun in a 357 lever gun.
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Posted: 2/13/2024 10:27:19 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You can shoot .38 special in anything................... https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/32224/IMG_0448_JPG-3128290.JPG 
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Posted: 2/13/2024 11:05:52 PM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 2/13/2024 11:24:43 PM EDT
[#13]
PSA black Friday M10
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Posted: 2/14/2024 12:01:25 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I miss my 1917 S&W. Should’ve kept it. I need a hug.  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So get a 45acp revolver? Rimless in a revolver? Just no Ok, watch yourself, cuz. I’m onboard with the 38 Spl praise, but a 45 ACP revolver is the bee’s knees. Try it if you haven’t. I miss my 1917 S&W. Should’ve kept it. I need a hug. There's an emote for that: 
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Posted: 2/14/2024 12:32:19 AM EDT
[#15]
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Posted: 2/14/2024 12:45:10 AM EDT
[#16]
My favorite cartridge to load and shoot is 38SPL with Type III Lyman 358432 heavy wadcutters and a +P charge of Power Pistol. They run fine out of Rossi leverguns too.
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Posted: 2/14/2024 2:22:11 AM EDT
[#17]
My only .38 Special... S&W 442 Pro with eBay grips and BK grip adapter. Usually carried with Speer Gold Dot +P 135 grain .38 Special ammo.
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Posted: 2/14/2024 2:24:19 AM EDT
[#18]
Overall very good round
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Posted: 2/14/2024 2:40:17 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Depending on the actual velocity that wood would have stopped any other normal service load. I'd prefer a swc-wn though. Maybe in .38 Special, seeing as the RCMP duty load was among the hottest loads available in the caliber at the time. It moved out at 1000 fps, the same as today's Buffalo Bore 158 gr LSWCHP. Granted the RCMP load may have been rated out of a 5 inch barrel rather than a 4 inch, but was some fairly strong medicine regardless, and if it couldn't get through that rail it then I wouldn't be too confident about most of its contemporaries. OTOH, I would be surprised if that 2x4 would have been able to reliably stop too many duty loads in 9mm on up. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 3:05:03 AM EDT
[#20]
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Posted: 2/14/2024 3:13:56 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You can shoot .38 special in anything................... https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/32224/IMG_0448_JPG-3128290.JPG Well there goes my post about pistols and revolvers |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 3:17:04 AM EDT
[#22]
Only pistol cartridges widely available in semi auto handguns are eligible for consideration.
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Posted: 2/14/2024 10:50:16 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Only pistol cartridges widely available in semi auto handguns are eligible for consideration. 
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Posted: 2/14/2024 10:54:32 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My only .38 Special... S&W 442 Pro with eBay grips and BK grip adapter. Typicaally carried with Speer Gold Dot +P 135 grain .38 Special ammo. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/37420/20200711_184454_jpg-1499564_JPG-2214501.jpg https://www.luckygunner.com/38-special-plus-p-135-gr-jhp-speer-gold-dot-1000-rounds#geltest 
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:05:17 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryThat's what you get when you fire A 4 inch load out of a 2 inch barrel. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:10:00 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's what you get when you fire A 4 inch load out of a 2 inch barrel. Quote HistoryQuoted: That's what you get when you fire A 4 inch load out of a 2 inch barrel. That's the problem w/ 2" snubs in .38. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:14:30 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Its plenty suitable to any m10 Even modern .38 loads it's easy to hit 1k fps Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: First one is full normal .357 Mag vel. It's a .38/44 load only suitable for large frame revolvers, but in every .38 SPL discussion, the wheelgunners will trot out their 1930's loading manuals. Its plenty suitable to any m10 Even modern .38 loads it's easy to hit 1k fps You say that .38/44 loads - .357 equivalent are suitable for K frames, but didn't Smith move to the L frame for the .357 duty guns b/c the K frames would fail internally on a steady diet of .357? I seem to remember an Oklahoma cop's revolver failing in a shootout in the 80's, think the bad guy surrendered to a non-functioning weapon. A long time ago, so the details are hazy. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:19:22 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You can shoot .38 special in anything................... https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/32224/IMG_0448_JPG-3128290.JPG Took long enough for someone to post a Mid Range. Of course, the 52 is nice too. And the 14, and the 36, and the 60, and the 64, and...... |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:22:52 AM EDT
[#29]
I shoot and reload 38's far and away more than any other caliber. I prefer 158 gr bullets. Simply switching between hollowpoints and wadcutters depending on practice or hunting. I routinely kill pigs with a 6" mdl 19.
In fact the best hunting handgins I own are that Mdl 19 and an M&P .40. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:24:24 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's the problem w/ 2" snubs in .38. Not as much as it used to be nowadays. There is special 2 inch loads now With easier expanding bullets and faster Ignition for more velocity. The problem with 2 inch loads though is that they suck in 4 inch guns. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:29:17 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not as much as it used to be nowadays. There is special 2 inch loads now With easier expanding bullets and faster Ignition for more velocity. The problem with 2 inch loads though is that they suck in 4 inch guns. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:34:07 AM EDT
[#32]
But remember when shooting 38 Special to:
Just hold on loosely But don't let go If you cling too tightly You're gonna lose control |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:37:26 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's the problem w/ 2" snubs in .38. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That's what you get when you fire A 4 inch load out of a 2 inch barrel. That's the problem w/ 2" snubs in .38. My 2" .38 has 147gr HSTs at 900fps. They open up just fine. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:42:46 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You say that .38/44 loads - .357 equivalent are suitable for K frames, but didn't Smith move to the L frame for the .357 duty guns b/c the K frames would fail internally on a steady diet of .357? I seem to remember an Oklahoma cop's revolver failing in a shootout in the 80's, think the bad guy surrendered to a non-functioning weapon. A long time ago, so the details are hazy. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: First one is full normal .357 Mag vel. It's a .38/44 load only suitable for large frame revolvers, but in every .38 SPL discussion, the wheelgunners will trot out their 1930's loading manuals. Its plenty suitable to any m10 Even modern .38 loads it's easy to hit 1k fps You say that .38/44 loads - .357 equivalent are suitable for K frames, but didn't Smith move to the L frame for the .357 duty guns b/c the K frames would fail internally on a steady diet of .357? I seem to remember an Oklahoma cop's revolver failing in a shootout in the 80's, think the bad guy surrendered to a non-functioning weapon. A long time ago, so the details are hazy. I've got over 25k rounds of magnums and 25k 38+p through my m66. I recently had to replace the cylinder due to skipping chambers which was more from dryfiring than shooting. There's a good article on why the L frame was developed of on revolverguy.com. Lighter faster bullets were attributed to cracking the forcing cone on the m19-66. Due to some changes with the gas ring they actually made the flat on the bottom larger which exasperated the cracking. After they went back to the older gas ring they did not change the flat. Anyways. 158gr lead at 1250 isn't cracking forcing cones anyways. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:43:53 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not as much as it used to be nowadays. There is special 2 inch loads now With easier expanding bullets and faster Ignition for more velocity. The problem with 2 inch loads though is that they suck in 4 inch guns. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That's the problem w/ 2" snubs in .38. Not as much as it used to be nowadays. There is special 2 inch loads now With easier expanding bullets and faster Ignition for more velocity. The problem with 2 inch loads though is that they suck in 4 inch guns. What? |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:45:22 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You say that .38/44 loads - .357 equivalent are suitable for K frames, but didn't Smith move to the L frame for the .357 duty guns b/c the K frames would fail internally on a steady diet of .357? I seem to remember an Oklahoma cop's revolver failing in a shootout in the 80's, think the bad guy surrendered to a non-functioning weapon. A long time ago, so the details are hazy. K-Frames had problems with .357 125 grain loads, which were en vogue for police use in the late 70s and 80s, until the mass adoption of autoloaders. .357 158s didn't cause the cracked forcing cones and flame cutting like the 125s. Since that time S&W has made some engineering changes to K-Frame .357s which largely mitigate the problem, AFAIK. .38/44 loads are a bit less than full house .357s. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:47:13 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That Model 1905, 4th Change is gorgeous! FYI, S&W only used those grip panels without the medallions for a few years in the mid-1920s. I have the target version of your gun, made in the same time frame. I'll shoot it with .38 wadcutters every so often. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/54763/m1905-target-left_jpg-3128298.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I have yet to shoot my .38 special. I know if I do, I'll want to shoot it all the time... It wasas my grandfathers and he never shot it much either, and he bought it from his brother-in-law. It is 100 years old this year and is mint https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/91056/e1gjgfvf-1252042.jpg That Model 1905, 4th Change is gorgeous! FYI, S&W only used those grip panels without the medallions for a few years in the mid-1920s. I have the target version of your gun, made in the same time frame. I'll shoot it with .38 wadcutters every so often. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/54763/m1905-target-left_jpg-3128298.JPG Thanks! It looking so good is most of the reason I haven't taken it out yet, but I think I will in July for it's 100th birthday. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:50:41 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not as much as it used to be nowadays. There is special 2 inch loads now With easier expanding bullets and faster Ignition for more velocity. The problem with 2 inch loads though is that they suck in 4 inch guns. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That's the problem w/ 2" snubs in .38. Not as much as it used to be nowadays. There is special 2 inch loads now With easier expanding bullets and faster Ignition for more velocity. The problem with 2 inch loads though is that they suck in 4 inch guns. Lucky Gunner's .38 tests were 7 years ago, and I have yet to see a 2" .38 Special test in calibrated organic ballistic gelatin that shows consistent expansion & at least 12" of penetration. I mentally subtract 2" from clear gel tests, but even if you don't, even the 2" barrel tests that average more than 12", quite a few of the hollowpoints failed to expand at all, or at least one of the 5 rounds tested came up shorter than 12" - a 20% underpenetration rate. 125 grn Federal + P made a 14.3" average, but the average expansion was less than .2" Hardly seems worth the extra recoil over wadcutters. https://www.luckygunner.com/38-special-p-125-gr-hi-shok-jhp-federal-50-rounds#geltest Hornady 110 grn Critical Defense makes it across the 12" line for all 5 shots, but just barely. Remington 158 grn +P penetrated nicely - but only one round expanded of the 5 through the clothing barrier. Worth the extra recoil for a 1/5 chance the hollowpoint will work? Speer Gold Dot 135 grn + P failed to go 12" for 1/5 rounds - 20% underpenetration. Winchester 110 grn +P+ had one round of five fail to go 12" - 20% underpenetration. Every load in that test other than the non +P 110 grn Critical Defense - in clear gel - had a round either fail to make 12", or didn't have significant expansion. What exactly are you getting from a 2" snub from hollowpoints that you're not getting from a 148 grn target wadcutter? 4"? Totally different story. .357? Totally different story. 2" .38 is a lot like .380 for terminal ballistics. We need very carefully controlled expanding bullets and more gel tests. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:59:15 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What loads? At first, there was federal micro, HST which was an unusual load that had the bullet fully recessed into the round And had powder loading similar to 9 mm, Basically a +P wadcutter with a modern bullet, was really fucking slick, was simply the best and we are desperate for its return.  However, since COVID fucked everything up. That particular type of gigachad load is no longer available. And instead they have moved on to a conventional 120gr soft lead load under the name Punch, While not as specialized as the micro hst it holds well. Others have jumped on it Sentinel has a special snub load And even though it's hard to find speer has a special load as well and like always hornady has been always consistent with expansion with their critical defense line What's just what I personally use in my three inch @Rodent |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:59:19 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My 2" .38 has 147gr HSTs at 900fps. They open up just fine. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: That's what you get when you fire A 4 inch load out of a 2 inch barrel. That's the problem w/ 2" snubs in .38. My 2" .38 has 147gr HSTs at 900fps. They open up just fine. I'm sure they do. Lucky Gunner's 130 grn HSTs opened up beautifully. One of them failed to go 12" in clear gel: https://www.luckygunner.com/38-special-p-130-gr-hst-jhp-personal-defense-micro-federal-20-rounds#geltest Do you have a gel test you can show us, & chronograph results? Another 17 grns & another 50 fps probably push the heavier faster load over the hump - in clear gel. Sadly, Federal doesn't offer the 147 grn HST in .38 Special, so I guess a handload using their 9mm bullet? |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 12:02:55 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lucky Gunner's .38 tests were 7 years ago, and I have yet to see a 2" .38 Special test in calibrated organic ballistic gelatin that shows consistent expansion & at least 12" of penetration. I mentally subtract 2" from clear gel tests, but even if you don't, even the 2" barrel tests that average more than 12", quite a few of the hollowpoints failed to expand at all, or at least one of the 5 rounds tested came up shorter than 12" - a 20% underpenetration rate. 125 grn Federal + P made a 14.3" average, but the average expansion was less than .2" Hardly seems worth the extra recoil over wadcutters. https://www.luckygunner.com/38-special-p-125-gr-hi-shok-jhp-federal-50-rounds#geltest Hornady 110 grn Critical Defense makes it across the 12" line for all 5 shots, but just barely. Remington 158 grn +P penetrated nicely - but only one round expanded of the 5 through the clothing barrier. Worth the extra recoil for a 1/5 chance the hollowpoint will work? Speer Gold Dot 135 grn + P failed to go 12" for 1/5 rounds - 20% underpenetration. Winchester 110 grn +P+ had one round of five fail to go 12" - 20% underpenetration. Every load in that test other than the non +P 110 grn Critical Defense - in clear gel - had a round either fail to make 12", or didn't have significant expansion. What exactly are you getting from a 2" snub from hollowpoints that you're not getting from a 148 grn target wadcutter? 4"? Totally different story. .357? Totally different story. 2" .38 is a lot like .380 for terminal ballistics. We need very carefully controlled expanding bullets and more gel tests. See my post above, federal realized the same thing, so they decided to make a super wadcutter, Turns out it was the right answer all along. Lol |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 12:05:31 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: That's the problem w/ 2" snubs in .38. Not as much as it used to be nowadays. There is special 2 inch loads now With easier expanding bullets and faster Ignition for more velocity. The problem with 2 inch loads though is that they suck in 4 inch guns. What? https://www.luckygunner.com/winchester-38-spl-ammo-for-sale-38-special-p-110-jhp-winchester-ranger-50-rounds#geltest   https://www.luckygunner.com/hornady-38-spl-ammo-for-sale-38specialp110ftxjhphornady-25#geltest   https://www.luckygunner.com/38-special-p-125-gr-hi-shok-jhp-federal-50-rounds#geltest  
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Posted: 2/14/2024 12:07:09 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not mine, but one of my most favorite pistols ive ever shot. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/21179/DSCN0060_jpg-3127832.JPG My dad had a model 52 when i was a kid. I remember watching him punch neat little holes that formed one big big hole at 50 feet. That thing was like a laser gun. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 12:08:18 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: See my post above, federal realized the same thing, so they decided to make a super wadcutter, Turns out it was the right answer all along. Lol Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Lucky Gunner's .38 tests were 7 years ago, and I have yet to see a 2" .38 Special test in calibrated organic ballistic gelatin that shows consistent expansion & at least 12" of penetration. I mentally subtract 2" from clear gel tests, but even if you don't, even the 2" barrel tests that average more than 12", quite a few of the hollowpoints failed to expand at all, or at least one of the 5 rounds tested came up shorter than 12" - a 20% underpenetration rate. 125 grn Federal + P made a 14.3" average, but the average expansion was less than .2" Hardly seems worth the extra recoil over wadcutters. https://www.luckygunner.com/38-special-p-125-gr-hi-shok-jhp-federal-50-rounds#geltest Hornady 110 grn Critical Defense makes it across the 12" line for all 5 shots, but just barely. Remington 158 grn +P penetrated nicely - but only one round expanded of the 5 through the clothing barrier. Worth the extra recoil for a 1/5 chance the hollowpoint will work? Speer Gold Dot 135 grn + P failed to go 12" for 1/5 rounds - 20% underpenetration. Winchester 110 grn +P+ had one round of five fail to go 12" - 20% underpenetration. Every load in that test other than the non +P 110 grn Critical Defense - in clear gel - had a round either fail to make 12", or didn't have significant expansion. What exactly are you getting from a 2" snub from hollowpoints that you're not getting from a 148 grn target wadcutter? 4"? Totally different story. .357? Totally different story. 2" .38 is a lot like .380 for terminal ballistics. We need very carefully controlled expanding bullets and more gel tests. See my post above, federal realized the same thing, so they decided to make a super wadcutter, Turns out it was the right answer all along. Lol Just saw it. You got any of them gel tests for that?
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Posted: 2/14/2024 12:11:46 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am fond of the .32 family due to it's versatility. I own lots of 38/357 as well. I'm also a fan of the .32. I often carry this 100+ year old S&W I-frame. 6 shots of Buffalo Bore 100 gr. Hardcast Wadcutter. I prefer it to my J-frame .38. Smaller, 1 additional round and the 100gr hardcast has similar terminal ballistics but half the recoil. It's very easy to shoot accurately. 
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Posted: 2/14/2024 12:11:47 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm sure they do. Lucky Gunner's 130 grn HSTs opened up beautifully. One of them failed to go 12" in clear gel: https://www.luckygunner.com/38-special-p-130-gr-hst-jhp-personal-defense-micro-federal-20-rounds#geltest Do you have a gel test you can show us, & chronograph results? Another 17 grns & another 50 fps probably push the heavier faster load over the hump - in clear gel. Sadly, Federal doesn't offer the 147 grn HST in .38 Special, so I guess a handload using their 9mm bullet? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: That's what you get when you fire A 4 inch load out of a 2 inch barrel. That's the problem w/ 2" snubs in .38. My 2" .38 has 147gr HSTs at 900fps. They open up just fine. I'm sure they do. Lucky Gunner's 130 grn HSTs opened up beautifully. One of them failed to go 12" in clear gel: https://www.luckygunner.com/38-special-p-130-gr-hst-jhp-personal-defense-micro-federal-20-rounds#geltest Do you have a gel test you can show us, & chronograph results? Another 17 grns & another 50 fps probably push the heavier faster load over the hump - in clear gel. Sadly, Federal doesn't offer the 147 grn HST in .38 Special, so I guess a handload using their 9mm bullet? The 900 fps is my handload with the 9mm hst. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 12:12:24 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: See my post above, federal realized the same thing, so they decided to make a super wadcutter, Turns out it was the right answer all along. Lol Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Lucky Gunner's .38 tests were 7 years ago, and I have yet to see a 2" .38 Special test in calibrated organic ballistic gelatin that shows consistent expansion & at least 12" of penetration. I mentally subtract 2" from clear gel tests, but even if you don't, even the 2" barrel tests that average more than 12", quite a few of the hollowpoints failed to expand at all, or at least one of the 5 rounds tested came up shorter than 12" - a 20% underpenetration rate. 125 grn Federal + P made a 14.3" average, but the average expansion was less than .2" Hardly seems worth the extra recoil over wadcutters. https://www.luckygunner.com/38-special-p-125-gr-hi-shok-jhp-federal-50-rounds#geltest Hornady 110 grn Critical Defense makes it across the 12" line for all 5 shots, but just barely. Remington 158 grn +P penetrated nicely - but only one round expanded of the 5 through the clothing barrier. Worth the extra recoil for a 1/5 chance the hollowpoint will work? Speer Gold Dot 135 grn + P failed to go 12" for 1/5 rounds - 20% underpenetration. Winchester 110 grn +P+ had one round of five fail to go 12" - 20% underpenetration. Every load in that test other than the non +P 110 grn Critical Defense - in clear gel - had a round either fail to make 12", or didn't have significant expansion. What exactly are you getting from a 2" snub from hollowpoints that you're not getting from a 148 grn target wadcutter? 4"? Totally different story. .357? Totally different story. 2" .38 is a lot like .380 for terminal ballistics. We need very carefully controlled expanding bullets and more gel tests. See my post above, federal realized the same thing, so they decided to make a super wadcutter, Turns out it was the right answer all along. Lol Except it was such a poor performer it's no longer available. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 12:28:33 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just saw it. You got any of them gel tests for that? I believe lucky gunner actually did a review of the ammunition. However, getting 12 inches out of a 2 inch barrel regardless of caliber is a tall order. Even if you shot 9 mm through a 2 inch barrel you're gonna have issues. And true 2 inch 9 mm practically do not exist. A more proper comparison for 38 specials is to take a 3 inch or 4 inch frame and compare it to a 3 inch or 4 inch 9mm, In that way, they are similar. 2inch 38 is more in the realm of micro autos like the LCP in reality @backbencher |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 12:31:02 PM EDT
[#50]
I put one of the new Lipseys run .38's and .32's on order.
I suspect I'll be carrying and shooting the .32 more. Loaded with wadcutters it'll do just fine for a snub. I carry my existing snubs in .38 with wadcutters. |
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