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Posted: 3/21/2017 12:30:55 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And how many of those people had underlying mental issues? |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 12:37:30 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
link The longer a person uses opioids, the greater the risk of forming a deadly addiction. But just how long does it take to switch from being a short-term user—say, while you’re dealing with pain after a surgery—to a long-term, potentially problematic user? A few weeks? A month? According to a new study, that transition could take just a matter of days. ... When patients get an initial opioid prescription that’s just a one-day supply, they have about a six-percent chance of being on opioids for a year or longer. But if that first prescription is for a three-day supply, the probability of long-term use starts inching up. With an initial five-day supply, the chance jumps to about 10 percent. With a six-day supply, the chance hits 12 percent. With 10-day’s worth, the odds of still being on opioids a year later hits roughly 20 percent. That’s according to the new study’s lead author Bradley Martin, a professor of pharmaceutical evaluation and policy at the University of Arkansas for Medical Science. It’s a fast rise, Martin said to Ars. “We really didn’t expect that.” And, according to the rest of the data—published Friday in the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR)—things just keep getting worse from there. ... Fuck the CDC and every "scourge of opioid abuse" bedwetting piece of shit who wants to save the unsavable at the expense of everyone else. The only thing I want to know is what the puppet masters hope to gain from this push to ban painkillers. |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 12:41:00 AM EDT
[#3]
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The only "buzz" I ever got from pain meds was when they gave me a shot of 4 mg dilaudid before kicking me to the curb with a 6mm kidneystone. I wanted to walk out, but the girl made me sit in the wheelchair for the shot. If I hadn't been sitting down I would have fallen down, it made my eyes water. Apparently that was enough to calm a horse. Every other narcotic I've ever received just put me to sleep, and I hate feeling sleepy. I went from excruciating pain to not a single care in the world in minutes. I couldn't imagine being on that in the hospital for more than a week and get sent home cold turkey. 
Back when I was in college 10 years or so ago there wasn't much you could walk into the health center with and not be handed a bottle of 20 Vicodin. Sore throat? opiates Head ache? opiates Stomach Ache? Opiates |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 12:53:40 AM EDT
[#4]
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I call bullsh*t. ETA: if you look at studies done on patients after they leave burn units (where the opioids flow like a mighty river), the number of people who turn into addicts is very small. I went more than 24 hours without taking any of it only a few days after coronary bypass surgery. Young Korean nurse, God Bless her, was the one who figured out the Norco made me sick and got them to cut the dosage of the hydrocodone component back. I think some might be predisposed to getting addicted to it maybe. Trick is to find out who. |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 12:55:28 AM EDT
[#5]
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What's minor? I got 12 Percs after 4 wisdom teeth were removed. 40 yrs ago. 3 yrs ago the daughter of an aquaintance was prescribed 48 for the same procedure. A student at RPI, top shelf individual. Her parents haven't seen her for two yrs after her addiction took over. Yeah science bitches. 40 yrs and they couldn't of wouldn't create a non-addicting pain reliever. It stinks of money. https://addictionunscripted.com/kingpinsoxycontin-heroin-and-the-sackler-sinaloa-connection/ https://www.statnews.com/2016/05/12/man-center-secret-oxycontin-files/ |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 12:56:14 AM EDT
[#6]
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True dat. Last time I had surgery, I was texting my surgeon on Post-Op-Day-#2, BEGGING him to let me take some non-steroidals rather than the Lortab/Percocet I had available. It worked better than the narcotics. I honestly don't like any of that crap. There are people out there who are genetically primed for addiction. I'm obviously not one of them. |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 1:07:05 AM EDT
[#7]
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Addiction is nothing but a series of poor choices. It's not any shape or form of a disease. The medical community has been treating addiction like a disease yet there is no cure because people choose to get high. There's been so much study and a lot of scientific data on both sides of the argument. However, the facts that some people are predispositioned to get hooked on drugs/alcohol is proven, and that predisposition fits the disease model. Thats why they use that word. |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 2:09:04 AM EDT
[#8]
This seems bogus based on all the anti-opiod articles I've been seeing the last few years. Yes, opioids were pushed in the 90's and the side-effects were hidden and/or not well understood. Pharma had a role in it, but Obamacare has a bigger role due to the Patient Satisfaction score.
The ever tightening rules for prescribing and dispensing opioids mostly affects the non-abusers. Severe addicts/patients are well known and can be cut-off. Between that and pharmacy information, major prescription opiod abuse should be easy to target... however it's the government and they can't even get a handle on medicare fraud. However, you can't eliminate it completely. It's hardest to clamp down on those that are abusing but aren't yet severe, pain is subjective and there are legitimate needs. It's also hard to fight selling pills from a valid prescription. In general, addiction is addiction and without treatment of the underlying mental issue(s), people will switch to something else. |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 2:18:00 AM EDT
[#9]
I broke my leg to the point where I had to have surgery to rebuild just about the entire thing.
Was on painkillers for 30 days, high doses. constant burning pain that only went away after a few vicodin, for a month. Never thought about them again once the scrip ran out, pain was fine after 30 days |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 2:30:38 AM EDT
[#10]
I had two rotators, labrum and collar bone fixed last April, went to Tylenol on the 3rd day. I was also set up with a morphine pump, went to the ER on day 2 to get it removed. I can see how one could get hooked, but I just felt worse. The morphine was plumbed into my neck on the side I had operated and it was more uncomfortable than the surgery.
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Posted: 3/21/2017 2:32:13 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Addiction is nothing but a series of poor choices. It's not any shape or form of a disease. The medical community has been treating addiction like a disease yet there is no cure because people choose to get high. i absolutely agree that it isn't a disease, and the first time is definitely a choice, but some drugs severely muddy the waters WRT choice after they take hold. |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 2:42:22 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I call bullsh*t. ETA: if you look at studies done on patients after they leave burn units (where the opioids flow like a mighty river), the number of people who turn into addicts is very small. i threw away hydrocodone and norcos after valve replacement. it ain't the pills' fault |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 2:46:53 AM EDT
[#13]
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I got euphoric effects from only 5mg of oxycodone. I think at one point when the pain was really bad I took 10mg and that felt pretty extreme. I can't imagine taking more than that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I don't think it was luck. Taking opiates as prescribed, while it can result in some level of physical addiction, rarely rests in mental addiction. In most cases you have to take several times the prescribed dose to have euphoric affects. |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 2:54:50 AM EDT
[#14]
I had my knee reconstructed. I was on perks and oxy for over nine months, every three hours popping pills.
When I came off them, I did detox a bit, as it was a very cold turkey way. I was still taking one or two a week for therapy, but once I returned to work, I stopped completely. I was shaking, sweating, and yes, I did have the feeling I should be popping a pill even though I didn't need it. I write the feeling off as just habit at that point after doing something for so long it just became something I did. I fought the feeling and was fine by the end of the week. I still will pop a pill if I do something that really irritates my knee, or I hurt my back for a day or two, then nothing. Some people need to keep their will power up. 
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Posted: 3/21/2017 3:03:20 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am not sure that title is accurate, but I can see how people get weak and succumb to it. I just live with whatever pain the occasional naproxen or ibuprofen can't handle or take the edge. Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am not sure that title is accurate, but I can see how people get weak and succumb to it. I just live with whatever pain the occasional naproxen or ibuprofen can't handle or take the edge. ibuprofen suppresses pituitary beta-endorphin release and produces analgesia, presumably by suppressing nociceptive activation of the pituitary-adrenal axis 
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Posted: 3/21/2017 3:26:13 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bullshit. My gf had two sepatate whole knee replacements [very ick]. I managed her meds 100% to the label. I made a chart and I had a digital timer: every dose was within 15 minutes of the prescribed schedule. She did not become a junkie. In fact, she quit taking her meds several days early. I do not, 100%, believe in the bullshit cited in OP's article. That article is bullshit. Give me enough and I suppose you could coat my lower limbs in grease, light them on fire, and I'd be " Meh, look at that shit.". My Wife hyper-reacts to the same dosage. Mine was a liquid dosage for stomach surgery and hers was for a tonsilectomy. For that 5/325 dosage I'd have to wake her ass up to give her dosage and she essentially slept for 3-4 days. We probably have left overs from 6-10 years ago. |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 4:26:52 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For me, I don't care for Opioids as while they are effective in pain control for me, it does it in a way that makes my skin crawl, like I have ants walking all over me and they don't reduce my level of pain at all, they simply remove my "give a shit" at caring that pain is there. |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 4:32:41 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
that was the morphine button for me--i hated the itchy way that stuff made me feel, and it didn't do much for pain. oral lortab OTOH muted the pain way down, and made me all happy and mellow. nurses looked at me funny when i told them to pull the morphine. Whatever that shit is would fuck me up. |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 5:25:19 AM EDT
[#19]
My experience taking opiods is that they're easy to get hooked on in about a week. But it's just like anything else. Stop taking them anyway, be a grump for a couple days and go on with life drug free.
It's going to be impossible to discuss any studies on them at the end of the day. I'm sure a lot of long term users of opiates are not really being honest with themselves. They are hooked, but don't want to admit it. They use their pain to justify the addiction. Doesn't really matter to me either way. Also they make me projectile vomit like the exorcist. I'll be happy to never take them again. |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 8:37:53 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
True dat. Last time I had surgery, I was texting my surgeon on Post-Op-Day-#2, BEGGING him to let me take some non-steroidals rather than the Lortab/Percocet I had available. It worked better than the narcotics. I honestly don't like any of that crap. There are people out there who are genetically primed for addiction. I'm obviously not one of them. I did 4 surgeries about 11 days ago. 2 Women, 2 Men. The Two Women (bunionectomy with screw fixation and hammer toes x 2...and a 1st MTP fusion with plate, screws) used one and two percocet respectively, then went to Tylenol. The 85 year old man (amputation of 2nd toe) didn't use anything of the Norco Rx....just took tylenol. The 35 year old man (ORIF of 5th met fracture...that was there a whole lot longer than he told us from the amount of healing inside)...went through 40 Percs and was begging for more.... |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 9:11:38 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lol, I use to apply my idealistic doofusness to these subjects too. There's been so much study and a lot of scientific data on both sides of the argument. However, the facts that some people are predispositioned to get hooked on drugs/alcohol is proven, and that predisposition fits the disease model. Thats why they use that word. |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 9:17:36 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lol, I use to apply my idealistic doofusness to these subjects too. There's been so much study and a lot of scientific data on both sides of the argument. However, the facts that some people are predispositioned to get hooked on drugs/alcohol is proven, and that predisposition fits the disease model. Thats why they use that word. |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 9:21:24 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was prescribed 16x of 10/325mg oxy/acetaminophen after having my appendix taken out last month. Having never been on anything stronger than advil before, I figured it would be a noticeable effect on me. Took one and I didn't feel any different. No more than taking an advil, with the side effect of some awful constipation. I didn't notice much pain relief either, just a very slight effect. Meh, still have 15 of them sitting in my medicine cabinet. So it's interesting that some people don't get much pain relief or euphoria and do have side effects and have no addiction while others seam to get euphoria at lower doses. It's like cilantro. Some people say it tastes like soap while other's lacking the gene that causes that find it to be a mild herb. Addiction problems will continue no matter how many people who don't get addicted are untreated for pain. |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 9:31:49 AM EDT
[#24]
So, those of us in the 80% category will have to suffer because of the other 20%? I can't imagine recovering from surgery or a major industry without these serious pain meds. I've been prescribed Vicoden, Percoset, Dilaudid, and some muscle relaxer after various surgeries/injuries and have never had a problem quitting them. I believe that some people have the addictive personality and might tend to abuse these drugs, but we need to deal with that issue separately. Somehow.
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Posted: 3/21/2017 9:32:51 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This.... I did 4 surgeries about 11 days ago. 2 Women, 2 Men. The Two Women (bunionectomy with screw fixation and hammer toes x 2...and a 1st MTP fusion with plate, screws) used one and two percocet respectively, then went to Tylenol. The 85 year old man (amputation of 2nd toe) didn't use anything of the Norco Rx....just took tylenol. The 35 year old man (ORIF of 5th met fracture...that was there a whole lot longer than he told us from the amount of healing inside)...went through 40 Percs and was begging for more.... I had a college kid who had a mild ankle sprain. I told him I'd get him some pain medicine for home, and he no-sh*t told me "the only thing that works is Percocet 10's " I literally  'd in his face, said "Yeah. I'm sure you'd like that... no." and walked out of the room.
Frickin' idiots. Here's a nice, big, fat prescriptions for "suck it up, kid." |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 9:32:58 AM EDT
[#26]
So maybe 10 days really does addict some smaller sized segment of the population.
But treating the other 75 to 90% like the easily addicted is just as ludicrous as giving the easily addicted what they want. |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 10:16:27 AM EDT
[#27]
I got the party sized bottle of Vicodin after shoulder surgery.
They did nothing for me, no pain killing, no high, nada. I think I took them for less then a week before I gave up on them. Despite being a smoker and heavy drinker at the time (addictive personality), I had no withdrawals or desire for them. Maybe I am missing my opioid receptors or something. (FWIW, I no longer smoke or drink anymore either). |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 10:24:12 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Absolutely, Dilaudid did to me. It took several weeks to get completely off it. Every fucking shit head is 'allergic' to morphine but don't dare be 2 minutes late getting their damn 'Dilaudids'[sic] to them when the prn time is up. 
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Posted: 3/21/2017 10:27:57 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I had shoulder surgery over Christmas. Was prescribed hydros along with other stuff. Went two days on the hydros and quit. Dunno how anybody can enjoy that kinda shit. I really do not see how people get addicted to them either. if my backs not hurting I have zero desire to take them.
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Posted: 3/21/2017 10:43:06 AM EDT
[#30]
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Fucking Dilaudid is the bane of an RN's existence. Every fucking shit head is 'allergic' to morphine but don't dare be 2 minutes late getting their damn 'Dilaudids'[sic] to them when the prn time is up. Terrible experience, that stuff... my head was spinning, I couldn't focus, couldn't talk, couldn't read... vomited over-and-over-and-over. I puked my way through three rounds of anti-nausea drugs. 
I'm not "allergic" to it, but that experience was a whole lot of "nope." |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 10:48:55 AM EDT
[#31]
My five day high on dilaudid last month has resulted in me having nightmares about the fucking drug. Why? Because a part of me really enjoyed it.
I can totally understand how people get hooked on it. |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 10:57:13 AM EDT
[#32]
The medical community does not hand out controlled pain medication easily, health history,drug testing for use beyond one script,
questioning by pharmacy staff, produce picture ID to pharmacy and questioning by any and all other doctors about use. Why because some people want to use a medication as recreational equipment.Patients who require pain relief don't get a buzz from a dosage prescribed by their pain specialists. I resent being looked at as an adict, because some people recreate with medication. No sympathy for those people, they only complicate life for those with a legitimate need for pain management. |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 11:31:43 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I had shoulder surgery over Christmas. Was prescribed hydros along with other stuff. Went two days on the hydros and quit. Dunno how anybody can enjoy that kinda shit. |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 11:45:12 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Absolutely, Dilaudid did to me. It took several weeks to get completely off it. |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 3:01:00 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can have ALL of my share of the Dilaudid... and I mean every last milligram. Terrible experience, that stuff... my head was spinning, I couldn't focus, couldn't talk, couldn't read... vomited over-and-over-and-over. I puked my way through three rounds of anti-nausea drugs.
I'm not "allergic" to it, but that experience was a whole lot of "nope." Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Fucking Dilaudid is the bane of an RN's existence. Every fucking shit head is 'allergic' to morphine but don't dare be 2 minutes late getting their damn 'Dilaudids'[sic] to them when the prn time is up. Terrible experience, that stuff... my head was spinning, I couldn't focus, couldn't talk, couldn't read... vomited over-and-over-and-over. I puked my way through three rounds of anti-nausea drugs.
I'm not "allergic" to it, but that experience was a whole lot of "nope." |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 3:35:04 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lol, I use to apply my idealistic doofusness to these subjects too. There's been so much study and a lot of scientific data on both sides of the argument. However, the facts that some people are predispositioned to get hooked on drugs/alcohol is proven, and that predisposition fits the disease model. Thats why they use that word. |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 3:37:48 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I haven't gone over the data carefully, but I would suspect confounding variables. People don't get initial 10 day opoid prescriptions for minor things. That's how addiction starts. I don't know why I only needed 1/3 of the drugs my Dr. gave me. |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 4:06:13 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Doctors aren't famous for statistical literacy, but if you're saying the CDC is full of shit, how about showing your work? |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 4:48:03 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll let you on to something. I was a cocaine addict for 3 years in my early 20's so I might know what the fuck I'm talking about.
I was an adict too, and there's several more of us on the board. Using the disease model to treat addiction does not remove personal responsibility nor does it diminish treatment success. Most if not all adicts are no longer in the position of having choice anymore, and personal responsibility is long gone out the window. Glad you're not a drug and alcohol counselor. |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 5:00:24 PM EDT
[#40]
About the author:
Beth Mole / Health Reporter [email protected] @BethMarieMole Beth is Ars Technica’s health reporter. She’s interested in everything from biomedical research to infectious disease, health policy and law. And she loves all things microbial. Beth has a bachelor’s degree in biology and world music from the College of William and Mary and a Ph.D. in microbiology from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. She got the hankering to write in graduate school while studying how bacteria win molecular wars against plants. After a stint of postdoctoral research developing drugs to combat antibiotic-resistant infections, Beth attended the Science Communication program at the University of California, Santa Cruz. She has written for Nature, Science, The Scientist, The Chronicle of Higher Education, and Science News. When not writing, she bakes and runs. One of these days she’ll dust off her drum set. Beth lives in Washington, DC. |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 5:03:05 PM EDT
[#41]
I could use some right now. Commercial tile setter and after years and years of spreading mud, cutting tile and grouting my fuckin arm is falling apart.
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Posted: 3/21/2017 5:10:27 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Doctors aren't famous for statistical literacy, but if you're saying the CDC is full of shit, how about showing your work? |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 5:22:37 PM EDT
[#43]
This just in..20% of people are weak as fuck and should be eliminated from the gene pool
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Posted: 3/21/2017 6:00:42 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I call bullsh*t. ETA: if you look at studies done on patients after they leave burn units (where the opioids flow like a mighty river), the number of people who turn into addicts is very small. I took maybe 3 pills. They made me feel worse than the pain I was experiencing My whole hospital stay they kept asking me "whats your pain level" and I kept saying "one" The hospital staff would always be like "that's it? Are you sure?" and sometimes I'd relent and say "okay maybe two". Make no mistake, my burn was relatively minor for a burn unit stay (low end of the hospitalization threshold), but the staff were expecting me to be in munch more pain, and taking many more pills, than I was. I think a good number of people who get large prescriptions and use all of them are just big babies who want to avoid any and all pain, and then become addicted. In fact, in my opinion its a wider problem in society where people expect pills to solve all medical problems, totally ignoring the negative side effects (addiction to pain pills being just one of the dozens of horrible side effects people risk getting in order to have a magic pill to solve some minor problems). The worst days I had after my burn was when my donor site was healing and I had to change my bandage. Even at those times I usually didn't take pills (like I said, probably three times I did). Pain is a part of being alive. It isn't something that one must avoid at all costs, especially if you know this pain is only a temporary thing (as opposed to chronic, debilitating pain that will never go away...that, IMHO, is a different ballgame). |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 6:29:19 PM EDT
[#45]
My teeth are shit...their favorite failure mode is vertical fracture though the pulp.This is painful...and I get quite insistent for proper pain relief when I can't
see out of the eye on the affected side.Vicodin makes me sick and hallucinate...no thanks.Oxycontin works perfectly...and is now damn near impossible to get prescribed thanks to the fucktard addicts.I once waited over 7 days for a root canal...thank God for the Oxy. Last time I was on it for about 15 days...and I worked the entire time. The first thing I did when I came home was take the dose...that way I could sleep.By about 4pm at work I was pretty testy due to the pain.When the pain stopped, so did the dosing. I don't like my brain feeling like it is wrapped in cotton...I just don't understand why people abuse it.But when the pain is intense nothing works better.Give me narcotics! |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 7:08:44 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IV Dilaudid is some serious shit. I went to the ER thinking I ripped something in my stomach from throwing up for 16 hours from food poisoning after a brutal 2 hour ab/core work out at the gym. They gave me 6mg of IV Dilaudid and I can absolutely see how someone without strong will power could get hooked on that very easily. I went from excruciating pain to not a single care in the world in minutes. I couldn't imagine being on that in the hospital for more than a week and get sent home cold turkey.
Back when I was in college 10 years or so ago there wasn't much you could walk into the health center with and not be handed a bottle of 20 Vicodin. Sore throat? opiates Head ache? opiates Stomach Ache? Opiates |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 7:10:08 PM EDT
[#47]
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I'm genetically primed for feeling horrible from opioids. Same as my mom. |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 7:17:09 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That ibuprofen shuts down beta endorphins just like morphine and its derivatives. It is downregulating your own system, making you dependent on pills. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3414241/ Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I am not sure that title is accurate, but I can see how people get weak and succumb to it. I just live with whatever pain the occasional naproxen or ibuprofen can't handle or take the edge. |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 7:26:03 PM EDT
[#49]
Was prescribed some after oral surgery last year. Never took one. Fuck that noise. Luckily I had zero post op pain anyway.
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Posted: 3/21/2017 7:29:18 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Phentynol IV for 6 days straight. It's like the Hand of God hugging you and whispering everything will be OK. You can literally feel it move through your body. Once I passed the stone I got on a plane and came home from Beijing. |
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