151 years ago today the battle to decide the fate of this country was initiated.  General Ewell misunderstood his orders and General Buford dismounted his Cavalry to fight like Infantry until Reynolds Corps could arrivve.  By the End of the day, the Army of Northern Virginia pushed the Federal Army back through the town and occupied it while the Federals took the high ground to the south of town unopposed and dug in waiting for the rest of the Army of the Potomac to arrive.


DAY 1

It is amazing to me that one error compounded upon another caused the confederate army to lose that battle - not superior tactics by the federal army.

Would modern tactics with Civil War era weapons have worked?

Not sure I follow your question.  Are you asking whether I think that Lincoln should have ordered the union airforce to drop JDAMs before sending in Seal Team 6 armed with full-auto assault muskets?  ETA: Hell yes I think that would have won the day.

I mean that the union army benefited substantially from bad decisions made by the general corps of the confederate army more than good decisions made by its own leadership.

If the South or North used modern infantry tatics with Civil War weapons.  Would that have worked?

I think if both sides knew and understood the effective range of their standard issue Infantry small arms('53 Enfield/'61 Springfield) and how to coordinate this with the artillery and cavalry things may have been different. Why march your units to within a hundred yards then open up when the combination of rifled barrels and conical bullets actually made these weapons accurate out to 3 or 400 yards.  When you research further into the battles and tactics of the day you will be surprised at how uncoordinated many of the attacks were which lead to higher casualties and wasted resources.  Good and fast communication would have made a helluva difference.

I see someone likes Mort Künstler...

So do I.


Just so you know, the first painting (Men of Valor) is the prelude to Pickett's Charge.

Yes I did know.  I have a bunch of his work hanging in my house, but my favorite two are "The high tide" and "Lee arrives in Fredericksburg".

Took the High Ground,  Unopposed!    
Saving grace for the North on Day 1

R.I.P. every one of them,  Blue and Grey

In reality it was three things:

1) Fog of war on the first day
2) A certain Colonel Chamberlain pulling off a minor miracle after a poor decision by Lee
3) A truly stupid decision by Lee on day 3.


If Lee had won at Gettysburg, heaven only knows how history would have unfolded. It is truly one of those turning points...

Sgt. Pepper taught the band to play?

AN/PED-1s and some bomb runs on the Union positions around town? Certainly.

"The High Tide" is one of my favorites, along with "The Last Council".

My house once looked like a Künstler museum.

I still have about a dozen of them...

Sending them to Vicksburg would have helped a lot more.

It's also Canada Day.

The 20th Maine begs to differ.



 

Chamberlain FTW.

Jeff Daniels has some serious acting chops able to go from Chamberlain to Dumb and Dumber.

(1) was partly Stuart's fault. Second, Lee (granted with Jackson around) had already shown that his units could easily out maneuver Union units. Should've looked at that excellent ground, thought about Fredericksburg, said, "Boy, I sure hope they stay there" and gone somewhere else.

I wonder if had the Confederates positioned troops on cemetery ridge and the round tops prior to the battle, could they have surrounded the union forces?

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20th Maine.........Fcking A      nothing but raw courage and leadership there!    

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyways"
                                                           The Duke

This.

One of the most interesting things I've ever seen was at the end of the Ken Burns documentary "The Civil War". Troops both Union and Confederate gathered at a reunion that was video recorded. It was interesting to watch the men and the respect they had for each other.

I've always wondered if that is why he did D&D...you know, show his range after doing that role in Gettysburg.

It would have been interesting, although Grant was getting ready to drive a stake in the heart of the Confederacy out west.

Feels weird having your birthday fall on the anniversary of the bloodiest day in American history.

In all fairness, that's the basic outline of almost every major battle Lee was involved in.

Day 1 - Make contact, fog of war, basic lines formed.
Next day or two - reenforcements arrive, solidifying lines.
Last day - Lee goes "hey diddle diddle, right up the middle" resulting in massive losses.

The only thing that made Gettysburg different is that, in past battles, green Union troops panicked and fled, letting Lee take the field.  By the time Gettysburg came everyone was on to Lee's shtick & the Union strengthened their center & held the line, breaking the ANV.

If it makes you feel any better, the worst of the bloodshed was on the second and third days.

As the Union Eleventh Corps crumbled under Confederate attacks West of the town of Gettysburg, a new danger presented itself from the North. Jubal A. Early's division was pressing forward towards willow tree lined Rock Creek and their dangerously exposed flank.
Among Early's Division was the Georgia Brigade commanded by fiery General John B. Gordon. Riding among the slanted bayonets of his division an artilleryman described the general on his black horse, "He must have been a direct descendant of ...Bucephalus... I never saw a horse's neck so arched, his eye so fierce, his nostril so dilated". The general's demeanor impressed the same observer: "Gordon was the most glorious and inspiring thing I ever looked upon ...bareheaded, hat in hand, arms extended, and in a voice like a trumpet, exhorting his men. It was superb; absolutely thrilling". In one of the most brilliant charges of the war, the Georgians hurled the Union forces back into the town insuring an overwhelming Confederate victory for the day's battle.





 

If they would have stopped and looked at what was in front of them for two seconds the second morning ^this should have happened.  I think Jackson would have bugged out had he been alive(purely my speculation).  Stewart fucked the ANV.  He failed to follow orders.

Col. Chamberlain and the 20th were in a bad spot on the second day, they were out of ammo with no reserves, on the flank, and we're around 50% strength when he made a decision to save his men that won him the MoH.  Not taking away from his achievement but that assault shouldn't have happened because Ewell failed to carry out his orders on the first day.  He admitted after the war that had they been hit again after the bayonet charge they would have been folded up and the Confederates could have turned the Fed flank despite having the high ground.

My Great Great Grandfather was there with the 17th Pennsylvania Cavalry Regiment.

He may or may not have faced one of my ancestors,  a Private in the 9th LA Infantry.

The 17th was all over the place, so maybe? Then again he could have faced my other G, G, Grandfather too. Having the classic east coast old school family, he was in the 6th Virginia Volunteer Infantry Regiment. And though the 6th was there, I don't know if he was at Gettysburg specifically.



 

I just checked my reference books, and depending on what company he was in, the 6th VA was present at Gettysburg, Andersons Div, AP Hill's III Corps

Same here too.  I have several including a large numbered and signed print they was left by the previous owner when I moved into my current house.  Its worth about 1k.  

I read that in the evenings when both sides were encamped and in ear shot of each other, they would play their instruments and sing together.  
I camped in McMillan's woods last year in July and it left a mark on me.   We hiked all of the Billy Yank and Johnny Reb trails,    Being BSA we were allowed to camp on the battlefield and we charged the angle at sunrise.   Hard to imagine the carnage of double canisters at 20 yards.  

thats not an enitrely accurate statement.  Antietam was the bloodiest single day battle.  so technically..youre gtg



 

the problem is.. it was an accidental battle.  neither Army wanted to or were trying to meet in Gettysburg.  it was a small unit that ran into dismounted cavalry.



the bayonet charge down little round top was a fluke as well.  the regiment just sort of.. went..



 

Yep, they just kinda ran into each other and the Rebs had the advantage  but held up in town.  

The 20th Maine........who plans to run out of ammo!

This happened a lot more than people think.  That's why the Cavalry(this was their primary function) and Privateer Scouts were vital sources of intel.  Lee wasn't looking for the fight at Gettysburg, it found him.  It was a skirmish that got out of hand early and kept escalating until both armies were fully comitted.  The Feds had the better ground, Lee should have recognized this and left.  Longstreet did and tried to stop Pickett's Charge but was unable to convince Lee.

 










 

I was just there two days ago...love that place. We're standing on Pickett's artillery at his left flank looking out towards his ill-fated advance. My wife's great great grandfather was in the 8th Ohio, and fought there repelling the charge. We have many of his letters and some artifacts from his service.











Was walking up through Devil's Den and saw some re-enactors sitting under a tree with no one else around...made a neat thing to see and just take in...if it weren't for the paved road would have made a neat photo. I snapped it in sepia just to see.







 

I will tell you if there's one time period for wars i hate its between  1700 to to 1920's.


HAY GUYS!

LETS LINE UP SHOULDER TO SHOULDER  AND TAKE TURNS SHOOTING EACH OTHER! HURR DURR!!!


So stupid...

Cool vintage looking picture. should have asked one of them to hold a "FU AROCK" sign.

Human history is littered with military campaigns fighting the previous generation's war long after their tactics had been outmoded - tradition and rigidity, coupled with romanticism/machismo about bravery standing up to the enemy's guns made generations of men too stubborn to accept it....but not everyone in that war lined up suicidally.



There were also numerous examples of guerrilla hit & run tactics, trench warfare, ambush & sniping techniques and so forth practiced by the armies. The Civil War was the testing ground for many methods that would still be relevant 100 years later.



 

My wife has a picture on her phone, I'll have to get it, of 5 or 6 of them at the Pub downtown sitting around a table all looking at their smart phones. Made us laugh.



Funny thing I hadn't seen is the Segway tours....nothing takes you out of the past faster than the whirrrrrr of a squadron of nerd-sickles going by. I'm sure they're neat to buzz around on, but it just looks wrong.




 

Those are called farbs, and if you message me the pic I'll make sure it gets on the farb page of the Authentic Campaigner forum.  It's our funny pics page of guys doing stuff they're not supposed to like eating McDs while sitting on the cannon barrel listening to a ipod.  We're not supposed to break character and some are stricter than others.

A lot more than three things,  Some of the "fog of war" was caused by Lee himself.  His orders were issued with wide latitude and without letting his general know his full intentions.  Two of his three Corps commanders were new in the position and one of them ( A. P. Hill) was very ill.  

Chamberlain's stand while heroic was only one of many by various Union units that day.  Most people don't even realize that the battle raged on until almost midnight on the Union right.  Longstreet's attack was in echelon and started in the Union left and rolled down the line for several hours.  It almost succeeded in several places.  

Lees decision to attack on where he did on the third day was not as much a long shot as may people think.  He actually devised a complex attack that if it had been carefully coordinated may have broke the Union lines.  Several key elements of the attack faltered badly early.  Some of the units in the attack had already been roughly treated on day one and two and were in no condition to make any sort of attack without rest and refit.  They broke badly and some of them stopped almost as soon as the attack started.  Archer's Brigade was one of them.  It had been badly trounced on day one and Archer himself captured.  It was a shell of itself and it is still not know how units is such condition were thought capable of participating in the attack.  

At the height of Pickett's Charge Stuart cavalry was to make it's appearance in the Union rear.  It was located and vigorously attacked by Union cavalry including units led by Custer who stayed to fight even though he had been ordered to another part of the field just a Stuart made his appearance.  He was talking to a senior officer and offered to stay if that officer would order him to.

Many people think that there was no fighting on the third day until Pickett's Charge.  In fact a 7 hour battle for control of Culp's Hill raged from about 04:00 to 11:00.  

Plus the one big reason that the :Union won that battle was that the northern troops were pretty well led and fought hard.  Even after the Union lines broke in day one they did not flee the battlefield but regrouped on Cemetery Hill where a division left there by Howard was preparing positions.  That plus the arrival of Hancock had a steadying influence on the troops there.  As one northern soldier said he projected such an aura of leadership we would have followed his orders even if he was not in uniform.  In him they felt that they had a man in charge who knew how to use them.  

Another factor was Meade.  Only a few day in command he actually handled his units well.  

Good post, lots going on that could have really shifted that battle either way...Stuart's Cavalry had it been in closer support early, or effectively eluded Gregg on the 3rd day might have really tipped that battle. It's often overlooked as an influence because he failed twice to live up to his reputation in that campaign, but he really hurt Lee's effectiveness.



The Union Cavalry (including Buford's stand) really showed up in Gettysburg and were tough mounted and on the ground.



 

Picketts Charge up Little Round Top would have worked.

Buford seeing (and fighting) for the high ground in the beginning was the key. Chamberlin's actions sealed the defeat leading up to the waste of Pickett's men on the 3rd day. Lee made some strategic blunders but the North had fought hard for that victory; both sides knew what was on the line. Now, if Lee had listened to Longstreet the outcome would have been different IMO.

Jackson would've said something bizarre and quotable, done some strange manuever with all his men, attacked somewhere he wasn't supposed to be, and won the day. But I don't think Jackson would've wanted to leave unless Lee had really ordered him to do so.