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Posted: 10/7/2019 12:45:47 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wonder what the noise levels were like in that workspace Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They are all wearing vests and collared shirts, a couple have ties on. Dress decently and then put coveralls and overalls on over that...hence the names "coveralls" and "overalls". Modern CNC is loud and obnoxious. Lots of compressed air flying all the time too which sucks. Hell, go back to when the steam engine was outside the shop and ran the main drive shaft along the top of the shop next to the ceiling and all you would have is the chips being cut and hitting the floor. And the occasional blood curdling scream of the guy with his tie stuck in the lathe. 
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Posted: 10/7/2019 12:47:07 PM EDT
[#2]
Is that a power belt seen connected to each lathe that disappears up through the top of the photo?
There would be a motor turning a jolly big/long shaft the length of the assembly line and belts would connect it to each piece of machinery. |
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Posted: 10/7/2019 12:49:49 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is that a power belt seen connected to each lathe that disappears up through the top of the photo? There would be a motor turning a jolly big/long shaft the length of the assembly line and belts would connect it to each piece of machinery. |
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Posted: 10/7/2019 12:52:31 PM EDT
[#4]
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Only fags and commies wear ties and long sleeves while working a lathe or mill. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/48680/John-C_-Garand-At-Work-486x600_jpg-1115714.JPG |
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Posted: 10/7/2019 12:54:12 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote History |
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Posted: 10/7/2019 1:15:36 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep. One big motor at the end of the building. Steam engine, before that era but I believe the machines in the pic were more modern than the steam era. I could be incorrect. I can't make it out. |
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Posted: 10/7/2019 1:41:53 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Also interesting, that apron is EXACTLY the same as the apron I wore up until we quit the apron service. I really miss wearing one. So convenient and handy. O-1 mics in the big top pocket. Scale, pencil, 3/16 allen wrench in the small top pocket. Rag, and expediently used knick knacks in the waste pocket.  |
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Posted: 10/7/2019 1:44:08 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What is the attachment he's handling in the OP? Taper attachment? Some kind of tool post grinder? I can't make it out. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Yep. One big motor at the end of the building. Steam engine, before that era but I believe the machines in the pic were more modern than the steam era. I could be incorrect. I can't make it out. So, my best guess is, he's laying/levering those bars on the barrel being turned to remove/minimize vibration. Like a follower rest, sort of. It's interesting that there appears to be live tooling (key/saw type cutter) that is swiveled up and out of the way on the back of the cross slide. The tool post is pretty peculiar and makes me wonder if the lever he's using is a second op sort of slide deal. That could be used by feel/blindly with stops and what not. Not used on general purpose lathes now, but who knows what kind of special tooling and contraptions they had back then. Second op Hardinge lathes can compete or surpass CNC lathes for certain applications. |
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Posted: 10/7/2019 1:46:57 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not exactly. You can take a heavy cut at the correct speed and feed and throw a proper straw colored chip. The entire notion goes back to before carbide tooling was common. Throwing a blue chip meant you were running too high of surface feet per minute and/or too high of a feed rate. There's a balance of time for the cut vs cost of tooling. And, yeah, some people get anal and stupid about having a notion that just because something takes longer, that makes it better.  |
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Posted: 10/7/2019 1:51:07 PM EDT
[#10]
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Wore one like that for quite a few years. Then I cracked a vertebrae in my neck and the weight of the apron, with all my crap in the pockets, hanging on that cord hurt my neck. I found Rockler (the woodworking place) aprons with webbing straps that cross your back to work great. I do wish they were a bit longer, they only go about halfway down your thigh. They also have more and bigger pockets. It was like a ritual. Walk in. Punch in. Go get coffee. Walk to bench and start looking at where you left off while you don your apron and plan your next move. It was all automatic. I would probably fumble with it, now. 
They did tend to get heavy. Especially if you were doing assembly work. Half a set of hex keys, brass knocker, who knows what else we'd cram in those pockets.
Might have to buy my own. I had some denim ones and they sucked. The apron company ones were washed many times so were soft and light weight. Plus, toolmakers wear white aprons. Blue ones were for machinists and other lower workers. 
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Posted: 10/7/2019 2:01:27 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can you imagine sweating all day in a stuffy suit, compared to the modern moisture-wicking wonder fabrics we have today? 
I do understand heavy cotton for FR protection, but I can't imagine wearing a suit in a physically demanding work environment. As much as I admire certain traditions, there are some that I am glad have gone the way of the dodo. |
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Posted: 10/7/2019 2:09:39 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
you do realize old movies were fiction, right? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I always point out to my son how people dressed decades ago compared to now when we watch an old movie or see pictures. Went from janitors wearing suits and ties to now most kids wearing what looks like they slept in. 
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Posted: 10/7/2019 2:17:11 PM EDT
[#13]
We have gone from hats, shirts, ties, gloves (for women) to wearing our undergarment (t-shirts) and gym clothes in public. Blessed be the yoga pants worn by slim women.
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Posted: 10/7/2019 2:31:05 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Look at how the crowd was dressed at this football game. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/00/dd/1b/00dd1bfde771d21234e04ee90a5ccaee.jpg
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Posted: 10/7/2019 2:34:00 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Behind an apron or not, no way I'd wear a tie around lathes. The oldest tool and die guy I ever worked with always wore long sleeves and a tee underneath. The guy started work right after WW2. Sleeves rolled up. He was also the best manual machine guy I ever knew. Often saw him running three machines at once. He'd be at the Bridgeport, winding on knobs for cut, while the LeBlonde lathe was taking off .003" on a drive shaft and the grinder was recipping a face grind in auto. All that activity fueled by constant diet of Camels, coffee and ball busting anyone who was in earshot. 
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Posted: 10/7/2019 2:45:14 PM EDT
[#16]
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Posted: 10/7/2019 2:51:06 PM EDT
[#17]
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Those were real men back then, operating 2 pieces of equipment at the same time AND working a 16 hour shift...with only 1 lunch break, $3 and hour. |
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Posted: 10/7/2019 2:54:17 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
posed photo |
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Posted: 10/7/2019 2:55:04 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Look at how the crowd was dressed at this football game. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/00/dd/1b/00dd1bfde771d21234e04ee90a5ccaee.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I always point out to my son how people dressed decades ago compared to now when we watch an old movie or see pictures. Went from janitors wearing suits and ties to now most kids wearing what looks like they slept in. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/00/dd/1b/00dd1bfde771d21234e04ee90a5ccaee.jpg When I was kid in the 60s, my dad was painting contractor. He wore 'whites' and one of my chores was to polish the boots he wore to and from jobs. He kept a ratty pair in his truck for doing actual painting. He also keep a set of spotless whites on a hanger in the truck. Those and the shiny boots went on if he was going to a contact for some possible business. |
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Posted: 10/7/2019 3:05:06 PM EDT
[#20]
dupe
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Posted: 10/7/2019 3:11:30 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Taking a large cut in steel on a lathe or a mill will result in the chip turning blue. What the company was saying is time doesn't matter don't take heavy cuts. Running too fast wears down cutting edges too quickly requiring time wasting resharpening. Creating too much heat in cutting causes too much heat in the workpiece, leading to work hardening of the workpiece, and distortion due to excessive heat and induced internal stresses. I came up in a serious as a mofo machine shop, and the phrase was "it better not be blue coming off the work, but it sure as shit better be blue by the time it hits the floor", meaning don't waste time in running so fast you need to replace/resharpen tooling, but don't be wasting time getting the stock off the part either. We were to take heavy cuts that still allowed for long tool life, yet by my time, we were using carbide insert tooling, but the situation was the same, get stock off quickly without distorting or work hardening the workpiece, and unnecessarily wasting tool life. So much BS here about machining practices. |
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Posted: 10/7/2019 3:15:37 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, it has more to do with cutting speed. Running too fast wears down cutting edges too quickly requiring time wasting resharpening. Creating too much heat in cutting causes too much heat in the workpiece, leading to work hardening of the workpiece, and distortion due to excessive heat and induced internal stresses. I came up in serious as a mofo machine shop, and the phrase was "it better not be blue coming off the work, but it sure as shit better be blue by the time it hits the floor", meaning don't waste time in running so fast you need to replace/resharpen tooling, but don't be wasting time getting the stock off the part either. We were to take heavy cuts that still allowed for long tool life. So much BS here about machining practices. |
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Posted: 10/7/2019 3:42:14 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He was trying not to be pedantic for the 99% of readers who don't understand what you just said and never will. |
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Posted: 10/7/2019 3:44:26 PM EDT
[#24]
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That was then. Welcome to glorious new America, where the Men are effeminate, the Women are Men, and Otherkin are...err...and the lathes operate themselves. Because everyone is too stupid to run them now. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Those were real men back then, operating 2 pieces of equipment at the same time AND working a 16 hour shift...with only 1 lunch break, $3 and hour. |
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Posted: 10/7/2019 3:59:38 PM EDT
[#25]
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Oh, like you know shit from shinola when it comes to cutting steel.
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Posted: 10/7/2019 4:03:56 PM EDT
[#26]
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This was a time when all of society had more pride in their appearance and in their work. |
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Posted: 10/7/2019 4:08:41 PM EDT
[#27]
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And lucky to make to their 50's. Wooo! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Those were real men back then, operating 2 pieces of equipment at the same time AND working a 16 hour shift...with only 1 lunch break, $3 and hour. Wooo! |
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Posted: 10/7/2019 5:40:48 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh, like you know shit from shinola when it comes to cutting steel. I don't think it is any service to those who want to learn to let misinformation be passed along uncontested. I've trained many apprentices, and understanding what exactly is happening at the tip of the tool and the face of the grinding wheel does wonders for how newbies approach the job, nothing pedantic about it, unless you think machinists can just come close to the actual dimension, spec or point being made. 
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Posted: 10/7/2019 5:44:15 PM EDT
[#29]
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Posted: 10/7/2019 6:32:55 PM EDT
[#30]
I love this bar. |
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Posted: 10/7/2019 6:39:12 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks, I was going to post something similar, but it's a day off and it was past time to get outside and mow. I don't think it is any service to those who want to learn to let misinformation be passed along uncontested. I've trained many apprentices, and understanding what exactly is happening at the tip of the tool and the face of the grinding wheel does wonders for how newbies approach the job, nothing pedantic about it, unless you think machinists can just come close to the actual dimension, spec or point being made. Kuraki might surprise ya with his knowledge on the subject. He's one of a surprising number of people on this forum who actually know their shit. |
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Posted: 10/7/2019 6:58:22 PM EDT
[#32]
My Father was a Tailgunner on a B24 flying missions out of North Africa.
BOTH my Grandfather (a trained machinist) and my Grandmother worked for a small machine shop that was a subcontractor to Buffalo Arms. Grandma made .50BMG Feed Pawls, Granpa was in charge of QC for the shop. Two nights a week, my Grandfather was also paid two bits (twenty-five CENTS) to get up in the middle of the night, walk a couple miles to the railroad crossing and then walk up and down the line inspecting the track for damage or sabotage. If it looked good, he set out a green lantern and waited for the train to roll by. A condition of the job was that he had to arm himself (no specification, no training required). I believe he carried a Remington model 11 that he borrowed from a neighbor, |
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Posted: 10/7/2019 7:07:54 PM EDT
[#33]
I bet he was an office guy. They just put an apron on for the pic.
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Posted: 10/7/2019 7:12:33 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I bet he was an office guy. They just put an apron on for the pic. There are literally thousands of pictures of people in those times. Wearing a tie was very common. |
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Posted: 10/7/2019 7:18:34 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Look at how the crowd was dressed at this football game. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/00/dd/1b/00dd1bfde771d21234e04ee90a5ccaee.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I always point out to my son how people dressed decades ago compared to now when we watch an old movie or see pictures. Went from janitors wearing suits and ties to now most kids wearing what looks like they slept in. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/00/dd/1b/00dd1bfde771d21234e04ee90a5ccaee.jpg |
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Posted: 10/7/2019 7:21:30 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm really surprised at how many doubt that workers dressed like that back then. There are literally thousands of pictures of people in those times. Wearing a tie was very common. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I bet he was an office guy. They just put an apron on for the pic. There are literally thousands of pictures of people in those times. Wearing a tie was very common. |
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Posted: 10/7/2019 10:52:46 PM EDT
[#37]
I knew a bunch of postwar era Motorola engineers (knew- they have sadly all passed) who told stories about being required to wear white shirts and ties well into the 70s, even when running machinery. God help the man who didn't tuck that tie into his shirt and roll those sleeves up, though. One of the guys told me how his mom lost all her hair to an electric laundry mangle when she forgot to tuck her long, red braid down the back of her blouse and it pretty much yanked her into the machine. The hair never really grew back properly and she took to wearing hats, which she despised. This made an impression on him about working safe, so he wore a bow tie every chance he got.
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Posted: 10/7/2019 11:19:16 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Most these days couldn’t multi task the lathes either. 
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Posted: 10/7/2019 11:26:18 PM EDT
[#39]
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At least they can heat treat properly. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Most these days couldn’t multi task the lathes either. |
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Posted: 10/7/2019 11:39:57 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm really surprised at how many doubt that workers dressed like that back then. There are literally thousands of pictures of people in those times. Wearing a tie was very common. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I bet he was an office guy. They just put an apron on for the pic. There are literally thousands of pictures of people in those times. Wearing a tie was very common. But...  Inside Springfield Armory featuring John Garand |
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Posted: 10/8/2019 12:19:51 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lol Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Most these days couldn't multi task the lathes either. |
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Posted: 10/8/2019 10:32:19 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm familiar with promo photos that don't actually represent what is going on. It might be. But...  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azjdwLdg70AQuote HistoryQuoted:
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I bet he was an office guy. They just put an apron on for the pic. There are literally thousands of pictures of people in those times. Wearing a tie was very common. But... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azjdwLdg70AThe pictures of machinists wearing ties are propaganda photos. |
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Posted: 10/8/2019 10:54:30 PM EDT
[#43]
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Posted: 10/8/2019 10:56:10 PM EDT
[#44]
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This, my grandpa made about $60 a month wrenching on B25's during the war. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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$3 an hour??? Not likely! More like $3 per day. |
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Posted: 10/13/2019 8:34:34 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To be fair, they didn't have very good/reliable thermocouple technology then. I actually wrote a paper in college on the subject in a materials class. I don't remember half of it, but that was a huge factor. |
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Posted: 10/13/2019 9:05:12 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
you do realize old movies were fiction, right? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I always point out to my son how people dressed decades ago compared to now when we watch an old movie or see pictures. Went from janitors wearing suits and ties to now most kids wearing what looks like they slept in. |
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