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Posted: 11/26/2021 2:19:02 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 301 was the result of a weight reducing program for the Pontiac V8. As mentioned before it has a much shorter deck height and very thin wall block casting. They also removed most of the counter-weights from the crankshaft using CAD to keep the crank balanced and the engine mostly vibration free. Ended up with a Pontiac V8 that weighed only 475 pounds, and was still all cast iron, where the standard weight for Pontiac V8's of the 60's and 70's was 675 pounds. And the 301 will bolt in place of any other Pontiac engine as it still had the same engine mount location and bolt patterns and bellhousing bolt pattern of all the other Pontiac V8 engines. You can physically bolt on older heads, but there are no intake manifolds that will fit and no reason the do it as the crank can't take any extra power. Found a photo of the crankshaft showing the lack of counter-weights. https://bangshift.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/CRANK.jpg My reaction to Pontiac engineers choices: 
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Posted: 11/26/2021 2:26:00 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I "commuter" with a v8, 4 on the floor Hurst, and the name "Grand Prix" ?  I'd call it a piss poor example of Detroit muscle, strangled by poor quality and govt. overreach |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 2:27:42 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Better at looking like something that some commie enviro-dipshit liberal arts professor would drive? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: hell, My kids civic looks better than that boat. 1979 Jap cars that were better,....and looked better https://cdn.dealeraccelerate.com/gkm/1/421/57213/790x1024/1979-datsun-280zx https://journal.classiccars.com/media/2020/12/mazda-rx7-silver-pick-4.jpg Better at looking like something that some commie enviro-dipshit liberal arts professor would drive? Your shtick is pretty lame. Japanese cars definitely aren't the end all be all, but blindly proclaiming all American vehicles are better than all Japanese vehicles by any metric (as you do) is silly. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 2:31:14 PM EDT
[#4]
Those G bodys are one of the easiest cars to work on. Literally an afternoon project to swap out that 301 turd with a 450 hp 383 in your driveway.
Their popular on the drag strip for a reason. Uncle Tony remarked he could pull a motor in like 45 min.....lol |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 2:31:21 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Everything of that era had a V8. The grand prix is not a sports car, have you heard of a trans am? Quote HistoryQuoted: Everything of that era had a V8. The grand prix is not a sports car, have you heard of a trans am? Quoted: Still better looking than any Japanese or Korean car ever made, though. Spaceboy, DetrhoytMAK said "any Japanese..." The mid-late 1970's were a horrible era for american cars |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 3:01:58 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Look at the Pro Stock cars from that era, Regals, Monte Carlos, Fairmonts, Monzas. Bad ass cars. A Plymouth Arrow won the championship. Small block (355 CI) Mopar. The Arrow was a Japanese import (Mitsubishi), but a decent looking car in my opinion.  Attached File |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 3:22:03 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Spaceboy, DetrhoytMAK said "any Japanese..." The mid-late 1970's were a horrible era for american cars Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Everything of that era had a V8. The grand prix is not a sports car, have you heard of a trans am? Quoted: Still better looking than any Japanese or Korean car ever made, though. Spaceboy, DetrhoytMAK said "any Japanese..." The mid-late 1970's were a horrible era for american cars |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 3:55:40 PM EDT
[#8]
That's near the absolute bottom of the barrel in terms of domestic cars. Only about 87 feet of vacuum lines, and a pile of emissions stuff.
 You cannot buy a Kia sedan that's slower than it today. A Kia Rio is a couple seconds faster 0-60, gets double the mileage, and isn't going to rust out/die in under 100k. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 3:57:30 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What 140 HP maybe? Downhill, with a tailwind 
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Posted: 11/26/2021 5:02:11 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Jesus Christ that era of American cars was fucking dogshit awful.  WORD!!! |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 5:13:03 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's near the absolute bottom of the barrel in terms of domestic cars. Only about 87 feet of vacuum lines, and a pile of emissions stuff. https://cdn.dealeraccelerate.com/ab/1/395/10107/1920x1440/1979-pontiac-grand-prix You cannot buy a Kia sedan that's slower than it today. A Kia Rio is a couple seconds faster 0-60, gets double the mileage, and isn't going to rust out/die in under 100k. But absolutely no one will be excited to find an 800 mile Kia Rio in 40 years or so. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 5:31:40 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Saw that a few days ago It's nice but it's no 77 masterpiece Like a ‘77 Can Am kinda masterpiece? |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 5:34:49 PM EDT
[#13]
I like it. But it would likely find a 400, and some 17” American Racing wheels on it.
I’m sure finding a 400 Pontiac motor is much harder than it used to be though. That is a pretty rare set up though. I don’t know how many 4speed cars GM made in that body style. But I bet excluding the El Camino. They only put a few hundred in all G body’s. Monte Carlo, Malibu, Grand Prix, Regal, Cutlass. After 73, 4speeds in Mid size cars became a rare thing. And there were few already between 70-72. Usually only the top of the line mid size sports coupes got them. SS, GTO, W Buick’s and Hurst Olds. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 5:34:56 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's near the absolute bottom of the barrel in terms of domestic cars. Only about 87 feet of vacuum lines, and a pile of emissions stuff. https://cdn.dealeraccelerate.com/ab/1/395/10107/1920x1440/1979-pontiac-grand-prix You cannot buy a Kia sedan that's slower than it today. A Kia Rio is a couple seconds faster 0-60, gets double the mileage, and isn't going to rust out/die in under 100k. That is not exactly fair. Mine weighed almost what my 2015 GMC 4WD truck does. GP's were tagged as "personal luxury" cars, not muscle cars, not sports cars. During the GTO heydays, they were still much heavier than a GTO. I had an SJ with the handling package and on a good 2 lane or a highway it was a good touring car for the time. On the highway I got good MPG, in the low to mid 20's then when I ditched the old style cat, it ran better and got better MPG. It always started, even in the cold. I drove it through 4 years of college on top of a WV mountain with winter temps in the teens and 20's on a regular basis. In those days we did not know any better. My previous car was a 77 Bonneville with a 400. Black with red pinstripe and red crush interior LOL It was a different time, people wanted different cars. My mom drove a 4 door Bonnie. Moms didn't drive Suburban's back then. Guys on railway crews did. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 5:50:59 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My reaction to Pontiac engineers choices: /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/0c96c781a5e6260d0827848aec47d205-381.gif Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 301 was the result of a weight reducing program for the Pontiac V8. As mentioned before it has a much shorter deck height and very thin wall block casting. They also removed most of the counter-weights from the crankshaft using CAD to keep the crank balanced and the engine mostly vibration free. Ended up with a Pontiac V8 that weighed only 475 pounds, and was still all cast iron, where the standard weight for Pontiac V8's of the 60's and 70's was 675 pounds. And the 301 will bolt in place of any other Pontiac engine as it still had the same engine mount location and bolt patterns and bellhousing bolt pattern of all the other Pontiac V8 engines. You can physically bolt on older heads, but there are no intake manifolds that will fit and no reason the do it as the crank can't take any extra power. Found a photo of the crankshaft showing the lack of counter-weights. https://bangshift.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/CRANK.jpg My reaction to Pontiac engineers choices: /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/0c96c781a5e6260d0827848aec47d205-381.gif I always just assumed they were pissed that the 400 got the axe and their V8 engine program was being eliminated. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 5:54:13 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mom and dad had a 1971 Like thishttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/307202/B32237DC-FB34-4DBB-95E0-752A5582F534_jpe-2181737.JPG That’s the Grand Prix I want. And a ‘77 Can Am. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 6:13:16 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I always just assumed they were pissed that the 400 got the axe and their V8 engine program was being eliminated. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: 301 was the result of a weight reducing program for the Pontiac V8. As mentioned before it has a much shorter deck height and very thin wall block casting. They also removed most of the counter-weights from the crankshaft using CAD to keep the crank balanced and the engine mostly vibration free. Ended up with a Pontiac V8 that weighed only 475 pounds, and was still all cast iron, where the standard weight for Pontiac V8's of the 60's and 70's was 675 pounds. And the 301 will bolt in place of any other Pontiac engine as it still had the same engine mount location and bolt patterns and bellhousing bolt pattern of all the other Pontiac V8 engines. You can physically bolt on older heads, but there are no intake manifolds that will fit and no reason the do it as the crank can't take any extra power. Found a photo of the crankshaft showing the lack of counter-weights. https://bangshift.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/CRANK.jpg My reaction to Pontiac engineers choices: /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/0c96c781a5e6260d0827848aec47d205-381.gif I always just assumed they were pissed that the 400 got the axe and their V8 engine program was being eliminated. My dad had a Pontiac, Buick, Jeep, GMC dealership, his dad started it in 1927. For a street car I always love the Pontiac engine. Gobs of mid range torque. Unless worked over, most were done making power by 4500 rmp 5k max. A lot of people were pissed at GM for killing the Indian V8. Many felt, myself included, for a street car, it was better than the SBC. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 6:20:29 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your shtick is pretty lame. Japanese cars definitely aren't the end all be all, but blindly proclaiming all American vehicles are better than all Japanese vehicles by any metric (as you do) is silly. If I had to pick one to be stuck with the rest of my life, I’d probably take one of the ricers. But we’re talking looks in this thread. That ‘79 Pontiac in mint condish is way cooler looking than those Japanese fagmobiles. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 6:32:47 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If I had to pick one to be stuck with the rest of my life, I’d probably take one of the ricers. But we’re talking looks in this thread. That ‘79 Pontiac in mint condish is way cooler looking than those Japanese fagmobiles. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Your shtick is pretty lame. Japanese cars definitely aren't the end all be all, but blindly proclaiming all American vehicles are better than all Japanese vehicles by any metric (as you do) is silly. If I had to pick one to be stuck with the rest of my life, I’d probably take one of the ricers. But we’re talking looks in this thread. That ‘79 Pontiac in mint condish is way cooler looking than those Japanese fagmobiles. Stuck with as in until rust do us part? My memories of of most Japanese, Italian, British imports back then, were of listening to them rust. Chevy Luv / Isuzu truck, when is the last time you saw one? Engine was like a sewing machine though. Even in the early 80's Datus 210's in my OA had beer cans and scrap duct work in the floor boards. My dad used to joke that it was because they were melting down old US tanks left over from the war. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 6:35:20 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Stuck with as in until rust do us part? My memories of of most Japanese, Italian, British imports back then, were of listening to them rust. Chevy Luv / Isuzu truck, when is the last time you saw one? Engine was like a sewing machine though. Even in the early 80's Datus 210's in my OA had beer cans and scrap duct work in the floor boards. My dad used to joke that it was because they were melting down old US tanks left over from the war. Pretty sure I’ve seen one of those Datsuns more recently than I’ve seen a ‘79 Grand Prix. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 6:36:36 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pretty sure I’ve seen one of those Datsuns more recently than I’ve seen a ‘79 Grand Prix. I bet the Datsun was restored. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 6:41:38 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Jesus Christ that era of American cars was fucking dogshit awful. Bro do you even donkmobile?  
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Posted: 11/26/2021 6:45:05 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Like a ‘77 Can Am kinda masterpiece? 
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Posted: 11/26/2021 6:46:47 PM EDT
[#24]
I (briefly) had a maroon '78 GP when I turned 16. I loved that car, but it got squashed by a drunk truck driver in a parking lot.
I had a dark blue '81 GP briefly afterward, until some dick pulled into the road right in front of me and stopped. It had some tiny, gutless V8 in it. I think it was around 260cid. It was a nice looking car, but damn it was slow. Even after I flipped the air cleaner cover over and put an ACCEL sticker on it. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 6:55:45 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I (briefly) had a maroon '78 GP when I turned 16. I loved that car, but it got squashed by a drunk truck driver in a parking lot. I had a dark blue '81 GP briefly afterward, until some dick pulled into the road right in front of me and stopped. It had some tiny, gutless V8 in it. I think it was around 260cid. It was a nice looking car, but damn it was slow. Even after I flipped the air cleaner cover over and put an ACCEL sticker on it. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 6:59:46 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Still better looking than any Japanese or Korean car ever made, though. I can think of at least two reasons why you're wrong.  
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Posted: 11/26/2021 7:00:06 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are you sure it wasn't an Oldsmobile? They put a 260 in the cars of that era. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I (briefly) had a maroon '78 GP when I turned 16. I loved that car, but it got squashed by a drunk truck driver in a parking lot. I had a dark blue '81 GP briefly afterward, until some dick pulled into the road right in front of me and stopped. It had some tiny, gutless V8 in it. I think it was around 260cid. It was a nice looking car, but damn it was slow. Even after I flipped the air cleaner cover over and put an ACCEL sticker on it. eta: I believe he referred to it as "the baby 8". My 16 year old self was embarrassed. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 7:00:27 PM EDT
[#28]
I had a '79 Grand Prix back in the day. Bought it used in '82 or so.
I loved it! 
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Posted: 11/26/2021 7:25:47 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: <Snip> In those days we did not know any better. My previous car was a 77 Bonneville with a 400. Black with red pinstripe and red crush interior LOL It was a different time, people wanted different cars. My mom drove a 4 door Bonnie. Moms didn't drive Suburban's back then. Guys on railway crews did. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 7:29:08 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Body looks like the Buick Regal I had around that year. It does because, Monte Carlo, Cutlass,Regal and Grand Prix were the same car with different front and rear styling.Same damn cars. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 7:34:43 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It does because, Monte Carlo, Cutlass,Regal and Grand Prix were the same car with different front and rear styling.Same damn cars. Yep. By that time the divisions could only do design and maybe suspension changes to suit their markets. Engines by then were shared throughout GM except for Cadillac. Which was still allowed to use their own. Don't recall the Buick turbo going into any other G body cars though. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 7:52:11 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nice! I had a 77 Monte Carlo. Bought it from my grandfather with 43,000 miles on it and cruising on the highway was where cars from this era absolutely shined! Like an idiot I sold it to buy an 87 Accord  Not my pics, powder blue with the white vinyl top. Never should have sold it- she was a beast and a blast to drive https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/120557/5D803778-CE30-43CA-BAFA-450CAF602651_jpe-2181551.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/120557/710492A6-E232-4157-9706-7E5924D95D2B_jpe-2181552.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I had a 77 Olds Cutlass Supreme Brougham, pretty close to the same car except for body style. Had the 350 and about a million feet of crushed velour inside. Handle? Hell no but it would cruise very nice and smooth down the highway. Only real downside it it had a horrible vapor lock issue if you shut if off hot and then tried to start it in less then 20 minutes or so. It always did start but you had to crank awhile. Never had any issues other then that with it. Got decent MPG for a big car. Nice! I had a 77 Monte Carlo. Bought it from my grandfather with 43,000 miles on it and cruising on the highway was where cars from this era absolutely shined! Like an idiot I sold it to buy an 87 Accord Not my pics, powder blue with the white vinyl top. Never should have sold it- she was a beast and a blast to drive https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/120557/5D803778-CE30-43CA-BAFA-450CAF602651_jpe-2181551.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/120557/710492A6-E232-4157-9706-7E5924D95D2B_jpe-2181552.JPG Had a ‘77 Monte Carlo 350 4bbl. Cruising down the hwy was it’s thing. 24mpg interstate. Had a little punch to it. Liked to hear the 4bbl sing. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 7:57:40 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nope. It was definitely a GP. I knew squat about motors back then. I went to a speed shop and asked them if there was any performance parts available for my motor. The guy laughed when I told him which motor it had. He said they literally make nothing for it. I think he said to find a 350 junkyard motor and start there. The car got wrecked before I could anything like that. eta: I believe he referred to it as "the baby 8". My 16 year old self was embarrassed. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I (briefly) had a maroon '78 GP when I turned 16. I loved that car, but it got squashed by a drunk truck driver in a parking lot. I had a dark blue '81 GP briefly afterward, until some dick pulled into the road right in front of me and stopped. It had some tiny, gutless V8 in it. I think it was around 260cid. It was a nice looking car, but damn it was slow. Even after I flipped the air cleaner cover over and put an ACCEL sticker on it. eta: I believe he referred to it as "the baby 8". My 16 year old self was embarrassed. Pontiac had a 265 ci (4.3L) version of the same V8 design as the 301 ci (4.9L) engine. As you found out, it was barely able to hold together at stock HP levels which is why there were never any performance parts made for either engine. The Olds 260 ci engine was Oldsmobile's version of the crappy 265/301 Pontiac. It never had a single performance part made for it either for the same reason. I had an 80 Cutlass with the 260 engine. It was a gutless V8 with only a marginal gas mileage improvement over the sturdy 307 Olds V8, but I never had any issues with the 260 for the short time that I owned it. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 7:59:29 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 150 HP with the four barrel. 135 HP with the two barrel. Doesn't matter much as the 301 was one of GM's worst V8s ever (the Olds V8 diesel was worse). It was so bad that I don't think there was ever a single performance part made for it. They are barely reliable at stock power levels. More than 6 or 7 PSI and the engine would grenade within 1000 miles. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What 140 HP maybe? 150 HP with the four barrel. 135 HP with the two barrel. Doesn't matter much as the 301 was one of GM's worst V8s ever (the Olds V8 diesel was worse). It was so bad that I don't think there was ever a single performance part made for it. They are barely reliable at stock power levels. Quoted: I'd drive the shit out of that. I'd put a turbo on it and have fun. More than 6 or 7 PSI and the engine would grenade within 1000 miles. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 8:40:16 PM EDT
[#35]
Wrong thread
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Posted: 11/26/2021 8:45:04 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ugly as sin. That was probably the worst era for American cars. No worse than the current shit they're putting out. An early fucking Chrysler 300 is halfway to being considered a classic. 90's LeSabres and Cutlasses already are "classics". Only slightly older, who can forget the Fiero? Flammable Tupperware! |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 8:45:17 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 301 was the result of a weight reducing program for the Pontiac V8. As mentioned before it has a much shorter deck height and very thin wall block casting. They also removed most of the counter-weights from the crankshaft using CAD to keep the crank balanced and the engine mostly vibration free. Ended up with a Pontiac V8 that weighed only 475 pounds, and was still all cast iron, where the standard weight for Pontiac V8's of the 60's and 70's was 675 pounds. And the 301 will bolt in place of any other Pontiac engine as it still had the same engine mount location and bolt patterns and bellhousing bolt pattern of all the other Pontiac V8 engines. You can physically bolt on older heads, but there are no intake manifolds that will fit and no reason the do it as the crank can't take any extra power. Found a photo of the crankshaft showing the lack of counter-weights. https://bangshift.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/CRANK.jpg Someone knows their stuff The 301 was simultaneously a genius and stupid idea |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 8:46:51 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's a great candidate for an LS swap. That would be a really cool car. Fuck no Pontiac v8 or bust! 
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Posted: 11/26/2021 8:48:33 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fuck no Pontiac v8 or bust! With fuel injection. And A/C. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 9:18:54 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With fuel injection. And A/C. But of course Oh and powersteering |
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Posted: 11/28/2021 11:10:51 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Jesus Christ that era of American cars was fucking dogshit awful. And that’s why it only has 858 miles on it |
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Posted: 11/28/2021 11:21:54 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And that’s why it only has 858 miles on it That probably went into the personal collection of the dealer. Hell the local Buick dealer here also sold Lotus back in the day. He had 3 of these in the lower garage. Lotus only built 20 of them worldwide. Don't know if he raced them, was holding them for buyers or what. But I stumbled upon them when my car was being repaired in the body shop. https://www.supercars.net/blog/1991-lotus-esprit-x180r/ |
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Posted: 11/28/2021 11:29:45 AM EDT
[#43]
Could probably throw the obligatory LS in it and get a few more HP. Or just leave it a stock survivor for maximum MEH factor.
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Posted: 11/28/2021 11:44:08 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We had a 79 Regal. Maroon, tan landau top, wire wheel hubcaps, tan leather interior. I thought it was a decent car. Of course, like all cars of the day, a weak, wheezing 3.8 v6, strangled by government regulations. Closest pic I could find online. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/145716/Screenshot_20211125-234310_Chrome_jpg-2181498.JPG |
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Posted: 11/28/2021 1:27:08 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Still better looking than any Japanese or Korean car ever made, though. No it isn't, smoothbrain.  Attached File |
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