[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 2 cycle oil mix (Page 6 of 6)
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I use the Opti-2 universal mix. Says it is safe for 100:1 to 16:1 mixtures. No more having different gas cans for the different mixtures. Northern tool sells it and several other places sell it. Ok, educate me here. I have never seen that stuff but doesn't it say how much gasoline to use with its packet? Then, THAT resulting mixture is safe to use for machines at 100:1 to 16:1? I think it means the mixture will be stable useful over that mixture range. I'm sure it that they intend for you to use the mixture specified by the engine manufacturer. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Well, there is a couple ways you can do it... the easy way: you can ask the person who last mixed the gas and oil what oil they used. the expensive way: spectrum analysis. This won't tell you the exact oil brand that is used unless you have a matching known analysis. Even then, batches will vary in properties and Husky oil may match RED MAX's oil. But it will tell you if the additives and sufficient quantity needed to meet JASO FD are present. This wouldn't be cost effective for an OPE manufacturer to do every time they suspect an engine failure that is oil related. They would most likely go by the "easy way" and eat it if the person lies, or if there is sufficient coking reject it outright. Please don't get me wrong in thinking that JASO FD is fail proof and the end all when it comes to air cooled two stroke-cycle engine oil. It isn't and that is not what I am trying to imply. But unless that oil mfg tests and registers their oil there is no way to accurately compare the oils. IF their oil is of such high quality that it blows the JASO FD test away, they can petition JALOS to make a higher standard of "FE" for example and raise the bar. Engine and Oil MFG's can do crazy things that are stacking the deck in their favor when doing oil and destructive demo tests and literature. Factories do not void warranty due to the mix oil used. It's up to the shop that is submitting the claim to look for seizure evidence such as metal transfer, and rod discoloration. Neither of these are a sure sign of improperly mixed oil, or poor oil quality. There is no way of determining what oil was used. Spectrum anaylisis? Sure, if there is mixed fuel remaining in the tank, but this doesn't ever happen. A customer will tell you whatever you want to hear. Bottom line is that you can use whatever oil you want, mixed however you want, and as long as the breakage is a part or craftsmanship defect it will be covered. Do you have any real world expierence pertaining to what we are discussing? They most certainly do, and by some of the MFG your dealership covers. And what Manufacturers have you worked for? Metal transfer and rod discoloration are signs of a few different types of failures, lubricity (or lack there of) failures is one of them. There are many other signs of oil related failures that have nothing to do with lubricity. Your customers really must be trying to hide something if they are bringing in failed engines that all the fuel is drained out of them. Yes a customer can tell you what you want to hear, hence what i wrote above about lying. Yes, if the breakage is due to defect in material or workmanship it will be still covered. If the engine fails because someone uses the wrong oils, that is not a defect in material or workmanship. Why yes I do have real world experience, everyday. I posted that earlier also. ETA: early morning pre coffee spelling errors |
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Quoted: I don't have the longest E-Peter, that's for sure, but do any of you experts know if the product sold as "50 Fuel" is good stuff? I sure like using it, and have recommended it to friends, so I hope I'm not screwing up by doing so. I run all Stihl equipment if that matters.  You are good to go. Already been tested and the oil blend used in it passed the JASO FD tests and is Registered. The good thing about 50 fuel is it is higher octane and contains no ethanol. Bad thing, is it is $15 - $20 per gallon. Stihl also markets their own version with their oil. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Skirt clearance is determined by piston material. A cast piston thermally expands less than a forged piston for example. That's why you would run a tighter skirt clearance for a cast piston. Are you saying all 2 stroke pistons are made the same? The major manufaturers skirt clearances differ .001, and have a margin of .002. You didn't answer the question. There is more than skirt clearances that make one piston different then the other. Next we'll be talking piston pin locations because of stroke.  I can't wait to get into port timing and angles! |
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Quoted: Quoted: four stroke that you mix the oil with the gas and it burns it. That is a whole other crazy thread. What is your opinion on the 4 stroke outboard engines, I hear they are much quiter but do they hold up good? There is another industry that has been put under the thumb of the EPA emission regulations. While I am a two stroke-cycle guy, I do have the affinity for the small block and big block Chevys, and Mercury Marine products with which I first realized I had oil in my veins. The Mercury, Suzuki and Honda 4 strokes are all that I am familiar with, and are all great products. Very fuel efficient also, but so are today's two stroke outboards, mostly because of emission requirements. |
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Quoted: My 2011 KTM 300 owners manual tells me the mix ratio is 60/1 using JASO FC rated oil. I use Dumonde Tech L111 Synthetic Two Cycle Racing Oil for the bike. L111 meets or exceeds API TC Requirements. API TC requirements can be met with 30 weight 4 cycle oil. Dumonde Tech L111 is not a JASO registered oil for FB, FC, or FD. Since it does not, you are taking your motor into your own hands since you are not using KTM's required oil. Personally, if you are only mixing for that, I would get the KTM oil. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I use the Opti-2 universal mix. Says it is safe for 100:1 to 16:1 mixtures. No more having different gas cans for the different mixtures. Northern tool sells it and several other places sell it. Ok, educate me here. I have never seen that stuff but doesn't it say how much gasoline to use with its packet? Then, THAT resulting mixture is safe to use for machines at 100:1 to 16:1? I think it means the mixture will be stable useful over that mixture range. I'm sure it that they intend for you to use the mixture specified by the engine manufacturer. NO!!! I am not sure how I missed this one... Talk about marketing hype. From their packaging: "Opti-2 is rated ISO-EG-D++, the highest rating available in the stringent International Standards Organization global performance ratings system" While ISO has a standard on 2 stroke oil, which is equivalent to JASO, there is no registration, SO, there is no proof the oil was actually tested except the word of the oil maker. The ISO standards are ISO-L-EGB, ISO-L-EGC, and ISO-L-EGD, the last letter being the testing procedure, just like JASO. There is no such rating as "ISO-EG-D++" or "D++" set by ISO. I have seen many big end rod bearing failures on many engine manufactures products over the past 20 years due to this stuff. |
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I use the Opti-2 universal mix. Says it is safe for 100:1 to 16:1 mixtures. No more having different gas cans for the different mixtures. Northern tool sells it and several other places sell it. Ok, educate me here. I have never seen that stuff but doesn't it say how much gasoline to use with its packet? Then, THAT resulting mixture is safe to use for machines at 100:1 to 16:1? I think it means the mixture will be stable useful over that mixture range. I'm sure it that they intend for you to use the mixture specified by the engine manufacturer. NO!!! I am not sure how I missed this one... Talk about marketing hype. From their packaging: "Opti-2 is rated ISO-EG-D++, the highest rating available in the stringent International Standards Organization global performance ratings system" While ISO has a standard on 2 stroke oil, which is equivalent to JASO, there is no registration, SO, there is no proof the oil was actually tested except the word of the oil maker. The ISO standards are ISO-L-EGB, ISO-L-EGC, and ISO-L-EGD, the last letter being the testing procedure, just like JASO. There is no such rating as "ISO-EG-D++" or "D++" set by ISO. I have seen many big end rod bearing failures on many engine manufactures products over the past 20 years due to this stuff. Thanks for the info. |
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Quoted: So Im taking part of this thread to heart.... I will ONLY have one 2stroke gas can from now on...... My Stihl is??? My other 2 stroke is 40:1. Will the 40:1 hurt my chainsaw? Will 50:1 run in the other engine???? Which way do I mix my new one two stroke gas can??? Which is your newest product? I am guessing the Stihl, which would be 50:1. What ever your 40:1 product is would be really old, or homeowner quality product. In either case, I would run any JASO FD registered oil in all of them. If your Stihl is a 4-mix engine, I would suggest using the Stihl oils, since that is not a Two stroke-cycle engine. I would check out the OPS manual for the 40:1 product you have, it probably only states that the oil needs to be API TC. The Stihl oils will meet that @ 50:1. |
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I use the Opti-2 universal mix. Says it is safe for 100:1 to 16:1 mixtures. No more having different gas cans for the different mixtures. Northern tool sells it and several other places sell it. Ok, educate me here. I have never seen that stuff but doesn't it say how much gasoline to use with its packet? Then, THAT resulting mixture is safe to use for machines at 100:1 to 16:1? I think it means the mixture will be stable useful over that mixture range. I'm sure it that they intend for you to use the mixture specified by the engine manufacturer. It is a mix that once mixed with gas is good to cover all the ratios from 16:1 to 100:1. 1 can of gas for all 2 cycles. It has the ISO-L-EGD+, Witch the ISO-L-EGD – same tests and requirements as JASO FD. http://www.opti2-4.com/opti-2.htm http://www.7thgear.net/7thGear/Portals/0/2%20stroke%20oil%20specs.pdf |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I use the Opti-2 universal mix. Says it is safe for 100:1 to 16:1 mixtures. No more having different gas cans for the different mixtures. Northern tool sells it and several other places sell it. Ok, educate me here. I have never seen that stuff but doesn't it say how much gasoline to use with its packet? Then, THAT resulting mixture is safe to use for machines at 100:1 to 16:1? I think it means the mixture will be stable useful over that mixture range. I'm sure it that they intend for you to use the mixture specified by the engine manufacturer. It is a mix that once mixed with gas is good to cover all the ratios from 16:1 to 100:1. 1 can of gas for all 2 cycles. It has the ISO-L-EGD+, Witch the ISO-L-EGD – same tests and requirements as JASO FD. http://www.opti2-4.com/opti-2.htm http://www.7thgear.net/7thGear/Portals/0/2%20stroke%20oil%20specs.pdf As I noted in an above post, there is no such rating as EGD+ or EG-D+ or ++ for that mater by ISO. If you want to run Opti-2 and have had good luck with it. More power to you. Thanks for posting the 7th gear link. It correctly shows the info on JASO and ISO. It does neglect to state that API TC and JASO FA are no longer supported. |
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I don't have the longest E-Peter, that's for sure, but do any of you experts know if the product sold as "50 Fuel" is good stuff? I sure like using it, and have recommended it to friends, so I hope I'm not screwing up by doing so. I run all Stihl equipment if that matters.
You are good to go. Already been tested and the oil blend used in it passed the JASO FD tests and is Registered. The good thing about 50 fuel is it is higher octane and contains no ethanol. Bad thing, is it is $15 - $20 per gallon. Stihl also markets their own version with their oil. Thank you––that's what I figured. I caught it on sale and bought two cases at <$5 gallon, so I'm happy. Also, the relative small quantities used in an entire season makes it not expensive at all for most. 
ETA: The Stihl stuff is almost $12/qt.! This is one time I say, SCREW YOU, STIHL! 
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I don't have the longest E-Peter, that's for sure, but do any of you experts know if the product sold as "50 Fuel" is good stuff? I sure like using it, and have recommended it to friends, so I hope I'm not screwing up by doing so. I run all Stihl equipment if that matters. You are good to go. Already been tested and the oil blend used in it passed the JASO FD tests and is Registered. The good thing about 50 fuel is it is higher octane and contains no ethanol. Bad thing, is it is $15 - $20 per gallon. Stihl also markets their own version with their oil. Thank you––that's what I figured. I caught it on sale and bought two cases at <$5 gallon, so I'm happy. Also, the relative small quantities used in an entire season makes it not expensive at all for most. ETA: The Stihl stuff is almost $12/qt.! This is one time I say, SCREW YOU, STIHL! You got a sweet deal, normally they are around $5 qt. Yeah, $48 a gallon is a bit steep. LOL |
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Well, there is a couple ways you can do it... the easy way: you can ask the person who last mixed the gas and oil what oil they used. the expensive way: spectrum analysis. This won't tell you the exact oil brand that is used unless you have a matching known analysis. Even then, batches will vary in properties and Husky oil may match RED MAX's oil. But it will tell you if the additives and sufficient quantity needed to meet JASO FD are present. This wouldn't be cost effective for an OPE manufacturer to do every time they suspect an engine failure that is oil related. They would most likely go by the "easy way" and eat it if the person lies, or if there is sufficient coking reject it outright. Please don't get me wrong in thinking that JASO FD is fail proof and the end all when it comes to air cooled two stroke-cycle engine oil. It isn't and that is not what I am trying to imply. But unless that oil mfg tests and registers their oil there is no way to accurately compare the oils. IF their oil is of such high quality that it blows the JASO FD test away, they can petition JALOS to make a higher standard of "FE" for example and raise the bar. Engine and Oil MFG's can do crazy things that are stacking the deck in their favor when doing oil and destructive demo tests and literature. Factories do not void warranty due to the mix oil used. It's up to the shop that is submitting the claim to look for seizure evidence such as metal transfer, and rod discoloration. Neither of these are a sure sign of improperly mixed oil, or poor oil quality. There is no way of determining what oil was used. Spectrum anaylisis? Sure, if there is mixed fuel remaining in the tank, but this doesn't ever happen. A customer will tell you whatever you want to hear. Bottom line is that you can use whatever oil you want, mixed however you want, and as long as the breakage is a part or craftsmanship defect it will be covered. Do you have any real world expierence pertaining to what we are discussing? They most certainly do, and by some of the MFG your dealership covers. And what Manufacturers have you worked for? Metal transfer and rod discoloration are signs of a few different types of failures, lubricity (or lack there of) failures is one of them. There are many other signs of oil related failures that have nothing to do with lubricity. Your customers really must be trying to hide something if they are bringing in failed engines that all the fuel is drained out of them. Yes a customer can tell you what you want to hear, hence what i wrote above about lying. Yes, if the breakage is due to defect in material or workmanship it will be still covered. If the engine fails because someone uses the wrong oils, that is not a defect in material or workmanship. Why yes I do have real world experience, everyday. I posted that earlier also. ETA: early morning pre coffee spelling errors In 16 years I have never had a warranty kicked back due to the customer using the wrong mix oil. |
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Quoted: Quoted: OK, someone school me. What is "50" fuel ?? It's quart cans of pre-mixed gas and synthetic oil, without ethanol, and with a stabilizer. This is a newcomer brand, not the exact stuff I have and use, but their website came up first. Edit: This is the stuff I use. I notice the one above even ripped off their color scheme on the cans. Oh well, maybe competition will lower the price a little. The TruSouth product also has oil that is JASO FD registered for the 50:1 mix. So using their 50:1 mix you will also be good to go. |
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I don't have the longest E-Peter, that's for sure, but do any of you experts know if the product sold as "50 Fuel" is good stuff? I sure like using it, and have recommended it to friends, so I hope I'm not screwing up by doing so. I run all Stihl equipment if that matters.
You are good to go. Already been tested and the oil blend used in it passed the JASO FD tests and is Registered. The good thing about 50 fuel is it is higher octane and contains no ethanol. Bad thing, is it is $15 - $20 per gallon. Stihl also markets their own version with their oil. Thank you––that's what I figured. I caught it on sale and bought two cases at <$5 gallon, so I'm happy. Also, the relative small quantities used in an entire season makes it not expensive at all for most.
ETA: The Stihl stuff is almost $12/qt.! This is one time I say, SCREW YOU, STIHL! You got a sweet deal, normally they are around $5 qt. Yeah, $48 a gallon is a bit steep. LOL Math is hard, I guess. NOT <$5 gallon––it was $2.31/qt. which is <$10/gallon. Sorry! 
The first quart I bought was $5.99/qt., but it was at a True Value Hardware, so not surprising. Menards has it cheaper, and they put it on sale occasionally. What I did was got them to special order two cases while it was on sale––paid for then, got it two weeks later. 
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In 16 years I have never had a warranty kicked back due to the customer using the wrong mix oil. Good for you. I would hope that a dealer that has a clue wouldn't be submitting a warranty for an oil related failure in the first place. But you said that using the wrong oil will void the warranty? If you never file an oil-related claim, what difference does it make what oil a customer uses? |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: In 16 years I have never had a warranty kicked back due to the customer using the wrong mix oil. Good for you. I would hope that a dealer that has a clue wouldn't be submitting a warranty for an oil related failure in the first place. But you said that using the wrong oil will void the warranty? If you never file an oil-related claim, what difference does it make what oil a customer uses? I did not say it would void the full warranty - IE defects in material or workmanship, but for an oil/lubrication related failure. It doesn't make a difference. But wouldn't you want to be informed, and give your customers the best information that will give them the best chance to get the most life, and extract every ounce of quality from the machine, along with providing less down time? Or do you want your customers to be needing top end rebuilds every winter because the motors need it from not running on the best oils that are out there? |
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My 2011 KTM 300 owners manual tells me the mix ratio is 60/1 using JASO FC rated oil. I use Dumonde Tech L111 Synthetic Two Cycle Racing Oil for the bike. L111 meets or exceeds API TC Requirements. That Dumonde Tech is good stuff, I'm using Motul 800, but after next top end I'm switching over to the DT, |
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In 16 years I have never had a warranty kicked back due to the customer using the wrong mix oil. Good for you. I would hope that a dealer that has a clue wouldn't be submitting a warranty for an oil related failure in the first place. But you said that using the wrong oil will void the warranty? If you never file an oil-related claim, what difference does it make what oil a customer uses? I did not say it would void the full warranty - IE defects in material or workmanship, but for an oil/lubrication related failure. It doesn't make a difference. But wouldn't you want to be informed, and give your customers the best information that will give them the best chance to get the most life, and extract every ounce of quality from the machine, along with providing less down time? Or do you want your customers to be needing top end rebuilds every winter because the motors need it from not running on the best oils that are out there? Right, but you said that a "dealer with a clue" would never file a warranty claim for an oil related issue. Which is it? |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: In 16 years I have never had a warranty kicked back due to the customer using the wrong mix oil. Good for you. I would hope that a dealer that has a clue wouldn't be submitting a warranty for an oil related failure in the first place. But you said that using the wrong oil will void the warranty? If you never file an oil-related claim, what difference does it make what oil a customer uses? I did not say it would void the full warranty - IE defects in material or workmanship, but for an oil/lubrication related failure. It doesn't make a difference. But wouldn't you want to be informed, and give your customers the best information that will give them the best chance to get the most life, and extract every ounce of quality from the machine, along with providing less down time? Or do you want your customers to be needing top end rebuilds every winter because the motors need it from not running on the best oils that are out there? Right, but you said that a "dealer with a clue" would never file a warranty claim for an oil related issue. Which is it? Do you read what others post before replying? I did NOT say "a dealer with a clue WOULD NEVER". If a warranty claim gets submitted on an engine failure that was caused by the use of oil that was not approved by the manufacturer of the engine, that claim could and should be rightfully rejected by the manufacturer because it is not a defect in material or workmanship. It is a breach of the warranty contract by the use of a wrong oil. HOWEVER, as I stated earlier in case you missed that too, "They (the MFG) would most likely go by the "easy way" and eat it if the person lies, or if there is sufficient coking reject it outright." Eating it, on the other hand is NOT WARRANTY, but would be "good will", "policy adjustment", "taking care of a good customer", how ever you want to put it. |
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In 16 years I have never had a warranty kicked back due to the customer using the wrong mix oil. Good for you. I would hope that a dealer that has a clue wouldn't be submitting a warranty for an oil related failure in the first place. But you said that using the wrong oil will void the warranty? If you never file an oil-related claim, what difference does it make what oil a customer uses? I did not say it would void the full warranty - IE defects in material or workmanship, but for an oil/lubrication related failure. It doesn't make a difference. But wouldn't you want to be informed, and give your customers the best information that will give them the best chance to get the most life, and extract every ounce of quality from the machine, along with providing less down time? Or do you want your customers to be needing top end rebuilds every winter because the motors need it from not running on the best oils that are out there? Right, but you said that a "dealer with a clue" would never file a warranty claim for an oil related issue. Which is it? Do you read what others post before replying? I did NOT say "a dealer with a clue WOULD NEVER". If a warranty claim gets submitted on an engine failure that was caused by the use of oil that was not approved by the manufacturer of the engine, that claim could and should be rightfully rejected by the manufacturer because it is not a defect in material or workmanship. It is a breach of the warranty contract by the use of a wrong oil. HOWEVER, as I stated earlier in case you missed that too, "They (the MFG) would most likely go by the "easy way" and eat it if the person lies, or if there is sufficient coking reject it outright." Eating it, on the other hand is NOT WARRANTY, but would be "good will", "policy adjustment", "taking care of a good customer", how ever you want to put it. 
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I stopped at the auto parts place today to buy some more 2 stroke oil.... The teeny tiny 2 ounce bottle was 2.99. It said will cover any requirement for 20:1, 40:1, 50:1, etc.... The same exact manufacturer had a quart bottle with the same exact for 4.99, it was labeled "Marine".....Certified NMMA TCW-3, but says ok for snowmobiles, chainsaws, etc..... It has different mix rates for different ratios desired. |
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I stopped at the auto parts place today to buy some more 2 stroke oil....
The teeny tiny 2 ounce bottle was 2.99. It said will cover any requirement for 20:1, 40:1, 50:1, etc.... The same exact manufacturer had a quart bottle with the same exact for 4.99, it was labeled "Marine".....Certified NMMA TCW-3, but says ok for snowmobiles, chainsaws, etc..... It has different mix rates for different ratios desired.
You had to bring this thread back....... 
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The bottles marked mix with 1 gallon, 2.5 gallon etc. just make it easier for small motor owners. You could use the same oil and mix it to what ever ratio you wanted. Math is hard for some folks. Yeah, but the bottle doesn't tell you to do that. By that I mean, it gives a specific "recipe". So, when I fill a 1 gallon gas can, I just portion it out but use the same ratio. You get what I mean. gas/oil 16:1 one gallon 1/2 pint 16:1 six gallons 3 pints or 1.5 quarts 24:1 one gallon 5.5 ounces 24:1 six gallons one quart 50:1 six gallons one pint 50:1 twenty five gallons two quarts 50:1 fifty gallons one gallon 100:1 six gallons 1/2 pint 100:1 twenty five gallons one quart 100:1 fifty gallons 1/2 gallon Why do all that if some here are saying to just run whatever the bottle of oil makes? I have mixed a shit load of oil for different things and apparently I have been putting way to much thought into it. Oil is cheaper by the gallon. Some people use more than a few gallons a year. True. There is a huge difference. |
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I stopped at the auto parts place today to buy some more 2 stroke oil....
The teeny tiny 2 ounce bottle was 2.99. It said will cover any requirement for 20:1, 40:1, 50:1, etc.... The same exact manufacturer had a quart bottle with the same exact for 4.99, it was labeled "Marine".....Certified NMMA TCW-3, but says ok for snowmobiles, chainsaws, etc..... It has different mix rates for different ratios desired.
You had to bring this thread back....... +1
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