[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 3 MOA----All Day!!! Position Shooting Association Challenge! Have a Go! (Page 2 of 11)
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Good question. Yes. You can enter 2 Divisions that way. The Optical and the Iron sight. Actually, the same upper can be used for both as well by merely changing the sighting equipment. You can shoot the Challenge with irons and the then add a scope and get a score up on both Divisions. I did myself and I think others might have also. Sweet! 
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You're going to allow this, but not a sling?
WHY SHOULD YOU USE THE CREEDMOOR COAT?
Shooting offhand in a Creedmoor heavy shooting coat is like leaning against a fencepost for support. Better scores prove it. Our superior design gives emphasis toward supporting the shooters standing position. Look at these shooting features contained in all our heavy coats. |
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Maybe allowing jackets and gloves is a mistake, but I get exhausted dealing with gamers trying to game the system, so I caved. I feel ya! I edited my post a bit to point out I wasn't meaning to break your balls too much. At every shooting event I put on you get the gamers trying to find any angle they can to get an advantage. In Appleseed some stages require 10 rounds in two magazines loaded 2 & 8 to force a reload so that the shooter can demonstrate their ability to re-assume their NPOA afterward. The gamers quickly realize they can fire 1 round, drop the empty mag and avoid having to operate the bolt release or charging handle thus minimizing manipulation but totally defeating the purpose of the drill. At the low light handgun match I put on I'll always get someone using a 300 lumen camping style headlamp on their head as if that's how they'll be equipped or how they'll use a light. At USPSA matches I've learned from painful experience that if I want a stage to test some skill I have to be very careful how it's designed or else it'll be gamed out to the max. Drives me nuts. At least with USPSA freestyle within the rules is how it's supposed to be. The rest are just
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That's the rules. Of course, no one is forcing you to wear it, or even to shoot the challenge for that matter. |
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Damn, I did horrible. 
Walkinginadangerzone– Larue Stealth 556 – 18.25 - Larue branded Troy folding sights -stock stealth upper – 55 gr FMJ - sitting – 15.1875 = 14.2917 https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/380189/20170107-211146-121665.JPG https://i.imgur.com/HQlC629.jpg https://i.imgur.com/JwxIgIWh.jpg Hey, don't kick yourself. THANKS for posting and you are on the board and if you like you can always shoot it as many times as you like. Best score gets posted. Heck of a lot better than just being a "Tag" that never posts!!! THANKS for posting. 
Nice rifle, too, by the way. |
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I feel ya! I edited my post a bit to point out I wasn't meaning to break your balls too much. At every shooting event I put on you get the gamers trying to find any angle they can to get an advantage. In Appleseed some stages require 10 rounds in two magazines loaded 2 & 8 to force a reload so that the shooter can demonstrate their ability to re-assume their NPOA afterward. The gamers quickly realize they can fire 1 round, drop the empty mag and avoid having to operate the bolt release or charging handle thus minimizing manipulation but totally defeating the purpose of the drill. At the low light handgun match I put on I'll always get someone using a 300 lumen camping style headlamp on their head as if that's how they'll be equipped or how they'll use a light. At USPSA matches I've learned from painful experience that if I want a stage to test some skill I have to be very careful how it's designed or else it'll be gamed out to the max. Drives me nuts. At least with USPSA freestyle within the rules is how it's supposed to be. The rest are just Writing gamer-proof rules and stages is an art form. I do it for a two-gun match. The first thing you learn is that you will NOT please everybody. |
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Writing gamer-proof rules and stages is an art form. I do it for a two-gun match. The first thing you learn is that you will NOT please everybody. Thanks. Here's the deal on coats and gloves: We are buried in snow and have cold/cool temps for much of the year. A guy can play a game that he needs a coat to shoot in and gloves, too. I'm not going to start fighting over what type of glove or coat is used. This is supposed to be fun. If a guy wants to use a shooting coat or a shooting mitt, then I'd just like to know WHAT he is using for interest sake. Personally, I prefer to shoot with the minimum of aids. It makes me a FAR better field shot, improves my ability to shoot all sorts of rifles and educates me about what I can do with a rifle under variable conditions, and helps with killing varmints, stock predators and game animals. We hunt all year long. When I shot the 1 MOA Challenge I didn't even use a bench, I shot it off my survival rucksack on the ground. Did I place in the top 3? No, but who cares, I shot darn well even with the handicap. So if a guy wants to "game" this thing and squeeze out whatever advantage he can WHILE STAYING IN THE RULES, fine by me. He knows what he is doing. One thing; We have a method by which we can investigate actual distances shot. It was used in one instance in the past but we don't want to go there. This is supposed tobe and IS...FUN! .
So guys, have fun. Shoot. Be honest. Post up your results and then use THEM as a method to improve upon. You aren't going to retire on your winnings after all! 
I've used the Challenge to prove my equipment, too. I shot this thing and then replaced the factory trigger in my ArmaLite M15A4NM with a LaRue MBT. THAT right there improved my score! So use this thing for pure fun or to improve your shooting. As mentioned, will post best scores from each shooter. Can shoot as many times as you want. 
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Heh, ok I'll tell my friend he can use the coat and gloves, but has to add a "used sissy coat and sissy glove" to his entry. It's cold enough around here to legitimately call for some kind of coat and gloves anyway. Your latter point is what caused me to allow it. I'm not going to police the clothing guys use and then get into OJ Simpson-court-style antics over the fitment of gloves... Shoot!! Have some fun with it!!
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Hey, don't kick yourself. THANKS for posting and you are on the board and if you like you can always shoot it as many times as you like. Best score gets posted. Heck of a lot better than just being a "Tag" that never posts!!! THANKS for posting.
Nice rifle, too, by the way. Thanks, going to try again this weekend then. |
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Smith Corona 1903A3 30-06, Barrel 24.0, Standard peep Sights, Handloads 150 gr M2 Ball, kneeling , 12.500 MOA 11.938
Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Smith Corona 1903A3 30-06, Barrel 24.0, Standard peep Sights, Handloads 150 gr M2 Ball, kneeling , 12.500 MOA 11.938 https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/109108/IMG-1919-1-124626.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/109108/IMG-1922-124627.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/109108/IMG-1923-124628.JPG Awesome!! That's what I'm talkin about!! We gotta get more milsurps!! OK...What were the conditions? What's Texas like this time of year? |
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OP, I'm going to try this at somepoint even though I don't have a competition shooting jacket. Give it a whirl! When you get your shooting coat you can always have another go at it! 
Come to think of it, it would be neat to shoot it with and without and see what the difference is..if any. |
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Looks like that guy prefers to go shooting in the buff! Not THAT!!!
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What about us heathens that don't own or have access to a printer? Somebody mail me some We are not Printerless-heathenaphobic!!
Do you printerless heathens have a felt marker and a compass? Cuz according to the rules from page 1: "Look at the one posted here. 6-inch diameter. They are easy to make..." Have at it, follow the rules and post up your results! |
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Damn, I did horrible.
Walkinginadangerzone– Larue Stealth 556 – 18.25 - Larue branded Troy folding sights -stock stealth upper – 55 gr FMJ - sitting – 15.1875 = 14.2917 https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/380189/20170107-211146-121665.JPG https://i.imgur.com/HQlC629.jpg https://i.imgur.com/JwxIgIWh.jpg Ay, you've got a baseline. There's some big errors, now ya just gotta make 'em smaller. |
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Keeping within theme, I think shooters using mag or clip charged rifles should start from standing, unloaded, and with no prior Natural Point of Aim prep ala NRA High Power (I'm guilty of it). But that might be a bit much for those who don't do much unsupported shooting. Be honest with yourself about your experience, and creep outside the comfort zone - I want to try LRRP... *sigh*... the 6.5 Grendel guy's combat kneeling positions or/and shoot within 60 sec.
Lever guns or sporterized bolt guns with fixed mags that must be fed one round at a time should start loaded and in position. I need to remember to use a big piece of backing cardboard like y'all.
Repost por ejemplo:  Arfcom PSA Challenge Attempt #1: Sporterized M1903A3 and NM AR15A2 |
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Keeping within theme, I think shooters using mag or clip charged rifles should start from standing, unloaded, and with no prior Natural Point of Aim prep ala NRA High Power (I'm guilty of it). But that might be a bit much for those who don't do much unsupported shooting. Be honest with yourself about your experience, and creep outside the comfort zone - I want to try LRRP... *sigh*... the 6.5 Grendel guy's combat kneeling positions or/and shoot within 60 sec. Lever guns or sporterized bolt guns with fixed mags that must be fed one round at a time should start loaded and in position. I need to remember to use a big piece of backing cardboard like y'all.
Repost por ejemplo:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNHM9zaFWj8There are a whole bunch of things we could do to tighten up the rules. And other stuff. Being's it's winter... "Biathlon" for a start. 5 shots, standing on skis {ski poles are on the ground}. Rifle is a Century SAR2 5.45x39: 
And the results: 
The rifle with my doubleslings and backpad affair for "biathlon} carry. 
Etc: 
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Got a couple new entries.
Attached File Attached File Attached File gunner76-Marlin 336CS/.30-30-- 20 1/4" barrel- Williams fiber optic front/buckhorn rear- WWG happy trigger- Remington 150gr PSP- sitting- 12.0045= 11.5 MOA. |
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Second one
Attached File Attached File Attached File gunner76- Ruger 10/22 .22lr- 16.5" barrel-Simmons Pro Hunter scope @ 6x-Tactical Solutions barrel-Federal red box bulk 36gr copper plated HP- sitting- 7.402=7.07MOA. picture of the range Attached File ETA. don't hate on me for the purple gun- it's my wife's gun but I like shooting it.
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Got a couple new entries. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/199700/IMG-1142-125832.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/199700/IMG-1144-125833.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/199700/IMG-1145-125834.JPG gunner76-Marlin 336CS/.30-30-- 20 1/4" barrel- Williams fiber optic front/buckhorn rear- WWG happy trigger- Remington 150gr PSP- sitting- 12.0045= 11.5 MOA. One of my favorite posts. Finally got an iron-sighted .30-30 levershucker!! |
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One of my favorite posts. Finally got an iron-sighted .30-30 levershucker!! I was actually surprised I could get the 15 rounds off in the time limit. I practiced the other night and knew it was going to be close, but when today came the reloading gods shined on me and I got off the 15rds in 1m28sec. Wanted to try it again but I didn't bring enough ammo. I might have to take my grandpa's old Win 94 out next time and see how it does, plus I'm waiting on the parts to finish two more ARs so I'll have some more entries in the near future.
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I was actually surprised I could get the 15 rounds off in the time limit. I practiced the other night and knew it was going to be close, but when today came the reloading gods shined on me and I got off the 15rds in 1m28sec. Wanted to try it again but I didn't bring enough ammo. I might have to take my grandpa's old Win 94 out next time and see how it does, plus I'm waiting on the parts to finish two more ARs so I'll have some more entries in the near future. Alot of guys get scared off by the 2 minute thing I think. In reality, it can be done with anything. In fact, come to think of it, I think a guy could easily single load 15 rd's thru a 94 or any other magazine rifle and get the thing done on-time. I should try that with my Mosin-Nagants as I did it the first time with the magazines...and really, loading the magazines on those things is proof positive of the existence of purgatory.
I want to see a guy have at this with a slug gun.
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Alot of guys get scared off by the 2 minute thing I think. In reality, it can be done with anything. In fact, come to think of it, I think a guy could easily single load 15 rd's thru a 94 or any other magazine rifle and get the thing done on-time. I should try that with my Mosin-Nagants as I did it the first time with the magazines...and really, loading the magazines on those things is proof positive of the existence of purgatory.
I want to see a guy have at this with a slug gun. This thought has crossed my mind  .
ETA. Challenge accepted. I have 15rds of my good slugs left for the test. I'll just have to put an extra large backing up since I won't have enough to check zero before hand. |
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This thought has crossed my mind .
ETA. Challenge accepted. I have 15rds of my good slugs left for the test. I'll just have to put an extra large backing up since I won't have enough to check zero before hand. We're on!!! Awesome!! Yes, go ahead. Put up a 4x8 sheet of plywood if you have to. Technically, this is an exercise in precision, not accuracy, so don't worry about zero. And that brings up a good point. For those who have rifles that are not zeroed, give it a whirl anyhow. I believe there might be some milsurps out there that are not going to print near the target center. No big deal. I'm just measuring MOA of the entire group. Thanks for offering...I did think I might coax a slug gun group out of an Iowan!!
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Here's the requested slug gun entry, not as good as I hoped but leaves room for improvement.
Attached File Attached File Attached File gunner76-Remington 870 12ga-20" Remington rifled barrel- stock sights-Win Super X 3" 1oz BRI sabots-sitting- 12.652=11.99MOA ETA. I think if I reshoot this and the levergun entry I can shrink the groups down a bit. I felt rushed since I knew I had to reload multiple times(twice with the marlin and three times with the 870)and ended up firing as soon as the sights drifted into the target. Even with having to reload I still managed to shoot the challenge in 1m18sec with the shotgun and 1m 28sec with the lever gun. |
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Here's the requested slug gun entry, not as good as I hoped but leaves room for improvement. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/199700/IMG-1154-126491.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/199700/IMG-1155-126492.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/199700/IMG-1156-126493.JPG gunner76-Remington 870 12ga-20" Remington rifled barrel- stock sights-Win Super X 3" 1oz BRI sabots-sitting- 12.652=11.99MOA ETA. I think if I reshoot this and the levergun entry I can shrink the groups down a bit. I felt rushed since I knew I had to reload multiple times(twice with the marlin and three times with the 870)and ended up firing as soon as the sights drifted into the target. Even with having to reload I still managed to shoot the challenge in 1m18sec with the shotgun and 1m 28sec with the lever gun. This is really GREAT shooting!! Thanks for posting it!! I have a few favorite entries and this is definitely one of them. I'd love to see the Back Easterners pile on with more slug gun entries. Thanks a lot for your posts. Great stuff! Thanks for the timing data, too. Those who think 2 minutes isn't enough time might find that very useful stuff. |
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This is really GREAT shooting!! Thanks for posting it!! I have a few favorite entries and this is definitely one of them. I'd love to see the Back Easterners pile on with more slug gun entries. Thanks a lot for your posts. Great stuff! Thanks for the timing data, too. Those who think 2 minutes isn't enough time might find that very useful stuff. 2min is a lot longer than it seems. When shooting with my ARs I felt rushed and still shot every attempt in under 1m 30sec. I really didn't think it would be possible to do the challenge in 2 minutes with the lever gun and slug gun since I needed to do multiple reloads. I rushed all my shots and ended up matching or beating my AR times, but my grouping really suffered. I'd like to see someone take the challenge with a .50BMG .
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Here's the requested slug gun entry, not as good as I hoped but leaves room for improvement. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/199700/IMG-1154-126491.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/199700/IMG-1155-126492.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/199700/IMG-1156-126493.JPG gunner76-Remington 870 12ga-20" Remington rifled barrel- stock sights-Win Super X 3" 1oz BRI sabots-sitting- 12.652=11.99MOA ETA. I think if I reshoot this and the levergun entry I can shrink the groups down a bit. I felt rushed since I knew I had to reload multiple times(twice with the marlin and three times with the 870)and ended up firing as soon as the sights drifted into the target. Even with having to reload I still managed to shoot the challenge in 1m18sec with the shotgun and 1m 28sec with the lever gun.
I was at an informal match this weekend where one target was "rapid fire" standing, ten rounds in a minute. Everyone was done in 30 seconds, although it was only at 50y. Unless you shoot high power regularly I think most people have trouble taking their time, not shooting quickly |
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I was at an informal match this weekend where one target was "rapid fire" standing, ten rounds in a minute. Everyone was done in 30 seconds, although it was only at 50y. Unless you shoot high power regularly I think most people have trouble taking their time, not shooting quickly Get on the board, Aimless! Give it a whirl. I actually try to shoot relatively quickly. I find that if I take my time, I overthink the course and my wobbles get bigger. Even so, tho, 2 minutes shouldn't be a problem with any breechloader I'm aware of. The frontstuffers might have to hustle a bit!!
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Thought I would shoot the Mini in the iron-sighted rifle division.
Jroy. Ruger Mini-14. Cal .223. Barrel length 19.5". Tech Sight rear, Choate sight/FH front. Glass bedded, trigger work, bayonet lug, flash hider. Hand loaded 55g X-treme bullet, Win 748 powder. Sitting, resting on knees. Group size 6.471. 
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Thought I would shoot the Mini in the iron-sighted rifle division. Jroy. Ruger Mini-14. Cal .223. Barrel length 19.5". Tech Sight rear, Choate sight/FH front. Glass bedded, trigger work, bayonet lug, flash hider. Hand loaded 55g X-treme bullet, Win 748 powder. Sitting, resting on knees. Group size 6.471. Awesome to get a Mini on the board!! Been interested is seeing one of these. Great shooting and THANKS for posting!! {How old is that Mini?} Gunner is right; Post it up according to the rules and I'll get you on the board!! |
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OK, I reshot one today.
I used my ArmaLite AR10. I've made some mods since last shooting and man did things turn out better this time. I shot from 100 meters so used the calculation for that range to get MOA. I just got the rifle back from ADCO where I had the barrel turned down to lighten it. Then added a LaRue MBT trigger {awesome trigger!} and switched the scope from the 3-9 I had on it to the Burris 1.75-5 Fullfield {an old one}. Ammo was a handload; 150 grain Hornady FMJ + H4895 @ 42.0 grains + CCI 200 + Lapua cases. Target One: 
Target Two: 
Rifle: 
I set up a Game Camera to catch shooting shots. At the shot: 
My range: 
Checking targets: 
Gear {I don't have a snomachine so I manhaul it all on skis}: 
Hauling the pulk home: 
One lonely jet in the sky! 
Results: EVR–ArmaLite AR10A4 "B"–20"-Burris Fullfield 1.75-5 Plex-Barrel turning, Larue MBT trigger-150 grn FMJ Handload-Sitting Elbows on Knees–4.255"=3.716 MOA |
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Thanks guys.
Mini is a 183 series my dad gave me back in the early '80s. Here's the dope: Jroy - Ruger Mini-14, 19.5" barrel, Tech Sight rear, Choate front, fiberglass stock, glass bedded , trigger work, bayonet lug, flashhider, 55g handloads, sitting, elbows on knees, 7" even = 6.471 MOA. |
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Thanks guys. Mini is a 183 series my dad gave me back in the early '80s. Here's the dope: Jroy - Ruger Mini-14, 19.5" barrel, Tech Sight rear, Choate front, fiberglass stock, glass bedded , trigger work, bayonet lug, flashhider, 55g handloads, sitting, elbows on knees, 7" even = 6.471 MOA. Thanks! Got you on the board! Have at it with anything else you have as well! ETA: Have you shot that rifle for group off the bench? I've always liked the Mini but never have owned one. |