User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 7:14:52 PM EDT
[#1]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 7:16:32 PM EDT
[#2]
.458 Win Mag Lite.
I want one, for no reason at all. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 7:18:13 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Even the old "antique" load is very good.. impressive.. in the amount of energy it puts into a target.... We were out shooting at the lapeer pit on day a year ago... a buddy had his 500 smith & wesson... and I had a older sharps in .45-70, shooting the "any gun safe" remington loads. First picture is of him, hitting milk jug with 500... good splash... respectible. http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad304/strangedaze13/500milk_zps9867359d.jpg Next pic is .45-70... as you notice... it did not make a spash, but instead turned the gallon of milk into a vapor cloud. A very distinct differece in energy release, eventhough, on paper, the 500 is more powerful. http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad304/strangedaze13/45-70milk_zpsfb981799.jpg Not saying that the garret round is not great.. just saying, it might not be necessary. Even the old school loads are pretty awesome! Here is a 1/4" steel plate vs. 45-70 rounds of differing power at 100 yards. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 7:18:16 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
I don't think anyone who knows anything about it, thinks it is underrated. That would be stupid. I've had one since right after the Guide guns came out. Late 90's maybe? Early 2000? I'm not sure. I think that I would get more use out of a 50 Beowolf at this point. That is just a personal thing for me. I'm so in love with the AR platform, that it is all I care to shoot anymore. this is me, pretty sure I will sell of my Guide Gun soon plus while the 45/70 is an awesome powerhouse, its rainbow like trajectory does not do anything for me. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 7:19:56 PM EDT
[#5]
I regret selling my Marlin Guide Gun... 
I have to correct that mistake... |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 7:21:35 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm kind of on the edge here. The ONE thing that really shines in this cartridge is cast bullet use without any compromises. But I've heard issues with Marlin Micro Groove barrels and cast bullets. For deer, there is no reason to go full power, a 330 Express bullet at 1250 ft/sec is more than adequate. It will still completely penetrate with any shot angle. Full power will handle all of the largest North American game. A .460 round ball and a few grains of fast powder will work for squirrel. Never had an issue with a guide gun and hard cast. I pretty much mutually shoot Garrett cartridges, barring some plinking with Hornady ammo. It's worth over five bucks a shot to watch "gun people", never new shooters...shoot it.  Guide guns don't use Micro-Groove rifling. They use Ballard style cut rifling. I've had some Micro-Groove Marlin's that were indifferent to cast bullets, 3-4 MOA at best, but Guide Guns have always shot extremely well for me with cast boolits. If you can't get sub 2 MOA with a Guide Gun, you aren't trying very hard. Of course, casting your own has it's advantages in getting to experiment with diameter, hardness, and lube selection. I've always had good luck with .459, WW + 1% tin, and LBT Blue Soft. Benchmark, 4895, and H-322 are the preferred propellants. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 7:21:45 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't think anyone who knows anything about it, thinks it is underrated. That would be stupid. I've had one since right after the Guide guns came out. Late 90's maybe? Early 2000? I'm not sure. I think that I would get more use out of a 50 Beowolf at this point. That is just a personal thing for me. I'm so in love with the AR platform, that it is all I care to shoot anymore. this is me, pretty sure I will sell of my Guide Gun soon plus while the 45/70 is an awesome powerhouse, its rainbow like trajectory does not do anything for me. Agreed, it shoots a heavy ass bullet. But I like it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 7:22:41 PM EDT
[#8]
Never had much use for one.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 7:23:00 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
I'm confused. Where does the magazine go in all of those guns? Does it drop off the front? Great Great Grandpa called, he wants his rimmed 1800's style cases back. Just get a Beowulf and join the proper century. 
It's not underrated, it's just old technology for limited guns. You done gone and made the puppy in your avatar sad with that foolish talk. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 7:23:08 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
I'd love to have a guide gun. 
I had one but the cheap shit was $1.10 a round ten years ago. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 7:23:22 PM EDT
[#11]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 7:24:34 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't think anyone who knows anything about it, thinks it is underrated. That would be stupid. I've had one since right after the Guide guns came out. Late 90's maybe? Early 2000? I'm not sure. I think that I would get more use out of a 50 Beowolf at this point. That is just a personal thing for me. I'm so in love with the AR platform, that it is all I care to shoot anymore. this is me, pretty sure I will sell of my Guide Gun soon plus while the 45/70 is an awesome powerhouse, its rainbow like trajectory does not do anything for me. Agreed, it shoots a heavy ass bullet. But I like it. The Elmer Keith load of a 405 grain soft point over 53 grains of 3031 powder at 1850fps from a Marlin rifle beats the HELL out the Beowolf!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 7:26:46 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'd love to have a guide gun.
I had one but the cheap shit was $1.10 a round ten years ago. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I'd love to get $1.10 a round for good ammo!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 7:27:11 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
45-90 chuckles derisively. Yep |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 7:28:56 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't think anyone who knows anything about it, thinks it is underrated. That would be stupid. I've had one since right after the Guide guns came out. Late 90's maybe? Early 2000? I'm not sure. I think that I would get more use out of a 50 Beowolf at this point. That is just a personal thing for me. I'm so in love with the AR platform, that it is all I care to shoot anymore. this is me, pretty sure I will sell of my Guide Gun soon plus while the 45/70 is an awesome powerhouse, its rainbow like trajectory does not do anything for me. Agreed, it shoots a heavy ass bullet. But I like it. The Elmer Keith load of a 405 grain soft point over 53 grains of 3031 powder at 1850fps from a Marlin rifle beats the HELL out the Beowolf!
For bear and elk, I've always shot 500gr. Granted, I'm not shooting more than 100 yards. I really need to learn to reload.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 7:28:59 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Thinking about selling mine Do tell. The Kid turns 18 next month and wants one. PM sent |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 7:33:01 PM EDT
[#17]
Here I am shooting a 425 gr Hard Cast bullet from a RanchDog mold (Keith Style Bullet) I do not remember the particulars of the load, but it is a bone cruncher on the butt stock end. Watch how fast the rifle leaves frame as I shoot it one handed.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 7:33:20 PM EDT
[#18]
My guide gun is my favorite rifle about 50% of the time. It is about the opposite of the AR. Just a lot of fun.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 7:34:44 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't think anyone who knows anything about it, thinks it is underrated. That would be stupid. I've had one since right after the Guide guns came out. Late 90's maybe? Early 2000? I'm not sure. I think that I would get more use out of a 50 Beowolf at this point. That is just a personal thing for me. I'm so in love with the AR platform, that it is all I care to shoot anymore. this is me, pretty sure I will sell of my Guide Gun soon plus while the 45/70 is an awesome powerhouse, its rainbow like trajectory does not do anything for me. Agreed, it shoots a heavy ass bullet. But I like it. The Elmer Keith load of a 405 grain soft point over 53 grains of 3031 powder at 1850fps from a Marlin rifle beats the HELL out the Beowolf!
He has a point about the trajectory though, you do have to compensate more. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 7:39:16 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't think anyone who knows anything about it, thinks it is underrated. That would be stupid. I've had one since right after the Guide guns came out. Late 90's maybe? Early 2000? I'm not sure. I think that I would get more use out of a 50 Beowolf at this point. That is just a personal thing for me. I'm so in love with the AR platform, that it is all I care to shoot anymore. this is me, pretty sure I will sell of my Guide Gun soon plus while the 45/70 is an awesome powerhouse, its rainbow like trajectory does not do anything for me. Agreed, it shoots a heavy ass bullet. But I like it. The Elmer Keith load of a 405 grain soft point over 53 grains of 3031 powder at 1850fps from a Marlin rifle beats the HELL out the Beowolf!
He has a point about the trajectory though, you do have to compensate more. after 150 yards it starts to get obnoxious |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 7:40:12 PM EDT
[#21]
both of these were taken with guide guns and my hand loads of a 350gr hornady flat nose pushed by h322 to 1950fps. Dads buff was cool the first shot was a double lung and exit the 2nd shot was her facing and slightly turned he hit her just in front of the shoulder and the hornady pushed through 6' of buff and came out the opposite hind qtr, we were pretty impressed to say the least. My elk looked like an anvil dropped out of the sky on his head he went down so fast he did get back up and wobbled but a 2nd to the lungs put him back down for good. The 45-70 is probably my favorite rd to load i can go crazy or load 405 cast boolits that my wife and girls love to shoot I call em bunny fart loads.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 7:40:34 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't think anyone who knows anything about it, thinks it is underrated. That would be stupid. I've had one since right after the Guide guns came out. Late 90's maybe? Early 2000? I'm not sure. I think that I would get more use out of a 50 Beowolf at this point. That is just a personal thing for me. I'm so in love with the AR platform, that it is all I care to shoot anymore. this is me, pretty sure I will sell of my Guide Gun soon plus while the 45/70 is an awesome powerhouse, its rainbow like trajectory does not do anything for me. Agreed, it shoots a heavy ass bullet. But I like it. The Elmer Keith load of a 405 grain soft point over 53 grains of 3031 powder at 1850fps from a Marlin rifle beats the HELL out the Beowolf!
He has a point about the trajectory though, you do have to compensate more. Well, you do have to understand its limitations. Inside of a hundred and fifty yards it will roll anything it hits point blank if you zeroed it properly. With a scope it's a great long range cartridge if you have the dope- just like any other cartridge. My 45-90 black powder cartridge Sharps with a Soule tang sight is zeroed out to 400 yards with dope for every range in between. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 7:42:00 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The reason I say this, is that with modern leverguns and ammo...it packs a hell of a punch and is pretty damned accurate! Plus it's just fun to shoot in a guide gun, hurts a little though. Try it out of a handgun.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y126/von_landstuhl/contender.jpg Just out of curiosity, what purpose do those high caliber single shot pistols serve? Lighter to hunt with or something? |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 7:43:42 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
45-90 chuckles derisively. Haaaaa...true...didn't someone make a 45/100....  ...just wondering.
Yes they did. Sharps chambered their 1874 in a number of .45 caliber cartridges. The .45-2.1,with the 2.1 being the case length in inches. This is AKA the .45-70. There was the .45-2.4, AKA the .45-90 (that designation came later when Winchester introduced it in their 1886 as an express load.) The .45-2.6 was a limited production target round, AKA the .45-100. The big daddy was the .45-2 7/8, AKA the .45-110. Some sources claim that Sharps also chambered the 1874 in a .45-3.0 in. (AKA the .45-120) but other sources state these were re-chambered rifles never actually produced by Sharps. Thus endeth the trivia lesson for today. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 7:44:16 PM EDT
[#25]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 7:45:29 PM EDT
[#26]
I don't think it is underrated at all. I have never heard or read anything contrary to the OP. I think you mean it is not popular enough.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 7:46:11 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't think anyone who knows anything about it, thinks it is underrated. That would be stupid. I've had one since right after the Guide guns came out. Late 90's maybe? Early 2000? I'm not sure. I think that I would get more use out of a 50 Beowolf at this point. That is just a personal thing for me. I'm so in love with the AR platform, that it is all I care to shoot anymore. this is me, pretty sure I will sell of my Guide Gun soon plus while the 45/70 is an awesome powerhouse, its rainbow like trajectory does not do anything for me. Agreed, it shoots a heavy ass bullet. But I like it. The Elmer Keith load of a 405 grain soft point over 53 grains of 3031 powder at 1850fps from a Marlin rifle beats the HELL out the Beowolf!
For bear and elk, I've always shot 500gr. Granted, I'm not shooting more than 100 yards. I really need to learn to reload. seriously if there was ever a reason to have a lee loader its for the 45-70 if you want to shoot cast order one of the case mouth expanders and your golden that little loader will pay for itsself in no time especially if you shoot the garrett ammo |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 7:47:44 PM EDT
[#28]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 7:48:34 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't think anyone who knows anything about it, thinks it is underrated. That would be stupid. I've had one since right after the Guide guns came out. Late 90's maybe? Early 2000? I'm not sure. I think that I would get more use out of a 50 Beowolf at this point. That is just a personal thing for me. I'm so in love with the AR platform, that it is all I care to shoot anymore. this is me, pretty sure I will sell of my Guide Gun soon plus while the 45/70 is an awesome powerhouse, its rainbow like trajectory does not do anything for me. Agreed, it shoots a heavy ass bullet. But I like it. The Elmer Keith load of a 405 grain soft point over 53 grains of 3031 powder at 1850fps from a Marlin rifle beats the HELL out the Beowolf!
He has a point about the trajectory though, you do have to compensate more. Well, you do have to understand its limitations. Inside of a hundred and fifty yards it will roll anything it hits point blank if you zeroed it properly. With a scope it's a great long range cartridge if you have the dope- just like any other cartridge. My 45-90 black powder cartridge Sharps with a Soule tang sight is zeroed out to 400 yards with dope for every range in between. Why I stuck with iron sights and try to stay under 100 yards. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 7:48:35 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
45-90 chuckles derisively. Haaaaa...true...didn't someone make a 45/100.... ...just wondering.
Yes they did. Sharps chambered their 1874 in a number of .45 caliber cartridges. The .45-2.1,with the 2.1 being the case length in inches. This is AKA the .45-70. There was the .45-2.4, AKA the .45-90 (that designation came later when Winchester introduced it in their 1886 as an express load.) The .45-2.6 was a limited production target round, AKA the .45-100. The big daddy was the .45-2 7/8, AKA the .45-110. Some sources claim that Sharps also chambered the 1874 in a .45-3.0 in. (AKA the .45-120) but other sources state these were re-chambered rifles never actually produced by Sharps. Thus endeth the trivia lesson for today. You are correct that old Sharps company never cambered a .45 3". However the current Sharps manufacturer does, note that the "tall" cartridge in the following picture is my buddys Shilo Sharps 45-120, next to my 45-90 and 45-70. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1461432_45_70_is_an_underrated_round_.html&page=1#i39428425 |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 8:13:36 PM EDT
[#31]
45-70 is still on my list to get.
See bellow. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 8:17:51 PM EDT
[#32]
I love my guide gun and I was gifted a old reloading kit for the 45-70 so I could be in the middle of nowhere and be able to make cartridges.
Let see you be able to do that with a .50 Beowulf ;) Damn meant to qoute |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 8:25:00 PM EDT
[#33]
So what range of energy are we looking at? 2400 ft. lbs. To 3300 ft. lbs.? A 12 gauge can do 2400 to 3000 ft. lbs. I'm not saying its underrated just overpriced
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 8:25:54 PM EDT
[#34]
Its been around since the late 1800s and is a very popular big bore round. Probably the most popular in history. Id definatly not call it under rated.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 8:38:32 PM EDT
[#35]
On my short list.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 8:43:15 PM EDT
[#36]
You wanna talk one shot one kill...this gun delivers!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 8:45:04 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The reason I say this, is that with modern leverguns and ammo...it packs a hell of a punch and is pretty damned accurate! Plus it's just fun to shoot in a guide gun, hurts a little though. Try it out of a handgun.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y126/von_landstuhl/contender.jpg Just out of curiosity, what purpose do those high caliber single shot pistols serve? Lighter to hunt with or something? The guy I bought it from was into International Handgun Metallic Silhouette Association shooting. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 8:52:54 PM EDT
[#38]
How do you guys think it compares to 444 Marlin?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 8:55:13 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
I'm confused. Where does the magazine go in all of those guns? Does it drop off the front? Great Great Grandpa called, he wants his rimmed 1800's style cases back. Just get a Beowulf and join the proper century.
It's not underrated, it's just old technology for limited guns. Yeah, let's see, which would I go with? 1. A round for a niche market? (Hunters who are members of the tacticool crowd who want a tacticool bush rifle). or 2. A long established big game round for the ever-popular lever action rifle, that has a track record of well over a century, and has a broader market? I know which I would go with. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 8:55:45 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
How do you guys think it compares to 444 Marlin? I've never shot one, so dunno. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 8:57:24 PM EDT
[#41]
When musing about uncertain future I sometimes reflect upon the fact that... 1. Potassium nitrate is about one dollar a pound in industrial quantities. 2. Lead, charcoal, and sulfur are essentially 'free.' 3. Brass + natural fat/grease lasts...'forever.' 3. A decent 4 rd. mold is still under a hundred, and lasts...forever. A competent man with a 45-70 lever gun, unlimited ammo, a few gallons of Ballistol, he could be like the immortal Energizer bunny of smoky doom. I think I would leave him alone. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 9:02:13 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: Quoted: Under-rated by who? I think everyone has at least a vague idea of its awesomeness. I have friends who say it's an underpowered antique. I try to explain about Garrett ammo and the stronger construction of the newer lever guns, and they're lost. Do they hunt lions or something? |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 9:06:17 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
My Sharps is consistently a 2 MOA gun with a tang sight, shooting black powder and a 540 grain cast bullet. With a scope I'm confident it would be a sub-MOA gun. It shoots better than I can. Edit for old school gun porn: 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 9:06:45 PM EDT
[#44]
Dupe, deleted. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 9:07:26 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Under-rated by who? I think everyone has at least a vague idea of its awesomeness. I have friends who say it's an underpowered antique. I try to explain about Garrett ammo and the stronger construction of the newer lever guns, and they're lost. Do they hunt lions or something? No, just Fudd's |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 9:36:08 PM EDT
[#46]
I love shooting my Pre Rem Marlin 24" stainless Xlr damn tack driver and it can be a shoulder remover to if you want it to.
I load 40 Grns of 4198 imr over a lee cast boolit 340 grn. It works great. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 10:18:26 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
I keep thinking about the russian double barrel 45/70. Looks like it would be fun. Can't shoot the hot stuff out of it but I dont hate myself enough to really want to. I grabbed that rifle off the used rack at Buds last year. It scratched my double rifle need... For now. Did some research on pressure limits... It can handle any "trapdoor" load with ease. Heavy "Marlin" loads are OK as long as they aren't pushing max. "Ruger No.1 only" loads are too heavy. Google "Tuning the Russian Baikal double" for info on improving trigger pull.. The rear trigger was horrible stock. .45-70 is addictive. 
I got a Guide Gun 1895GBL made by Remlin about a year ago. A week later I got a JM built Guide Gun. A few weeks later I bought the Ruskie Double Rifle. A week or two later I lucked into an original 1895 (from serial number search, it was made in early 1896). The antique is my favorite of the bunch, but all are great guns in their own right. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 10:20:39 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
So what range of energy are we looking at? 2400 ft. lbs. To 3300 ft. lbs.? A 12 gauge can do 2400 to 3000 ft. lbs. I'm not saying its underrated just overpriced Better than 4000ft/lbs with some loads. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 10:24:38 PM EDT
[#49]
Love my Guide Gun. It's standard equipment up here
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2013 10:33:55 PM EDT
[#50]
I've shot a 45-70 lever and a 454 Casull rifle. Needless to say, the 45-70 was less punishing.
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
