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Posted: 7/9/2023 12:25:10 PM EDT
[#1]
4:15 AM in the morning and it's dark, and weather depending, the fog and really get thick there too.
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Posted: 7/9/2023 12:29:11 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Harry Reid rated an airport?  Reid didn't bother coming to the renaming ceremony "because of Covid" |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 1:46:17 PM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 7/9/2023 1:52:24 PM EDT
[#4]
Killed in the crash were Riese Lenders (pilot), 25, of Rancho Palos Verdes; Manuel Vargas-Regalado, 32, of Temecula; Abigail Tellez-Vargas, 33, of Murrieta; Ibrahem Razick, 46, of Temecula; Alma Razick, 51, of Temecula; and Lindsey Gleiche, 31, of Huntington Beach, according to the Riverside County Sheriff's Office. |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 2:13:40 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: McCarran, who it used to be named after, didn't like the Jews (and I guess other racist crap. Ironically the Jews didn't like Reid, he had to elope because his wife's Jewish parents objected to her marrying Reid because he wasn't Jewish. Reid didn't bother coming to the renaming ceremony "because of Covid" Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Harry Reid rated an airport? Reid didn't bother coming to the renaming ceremony "because of Covid" Fucker is dead now. Good riddance. Rumor is his brother beat the shit out of him the time he supposedly fell off his treadmill and busted up his face. Hope it hurt. Rural NV didn't like him. Only thing that kept him going was Las Vegas and Reno. One election cycle he flew in to Reno and his entourage drove to town. Somebody hung him in effigy outside city limits on the Reno Hwy. Good riddance! |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 3:41:30 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is the C550 a single pilot rated aircraft? Between the weather, where the crash was, and the fact the aircraft was very active leading up to the crash, those holes in the Swiss cheese are already starting to appear.  You can get a single pilot type waiver for the 550. |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 8:17:58 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You can get a single pilot type waiver for the 550. Per the victim list posted above, it looks like that was the case. A likely fatigued and relatively inexperienced pilot (given his age) flying a jet to minimums as a single pilot. Doesn’t exactly leave a lot to the imagination given what we know.
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Posted: 7/9/2023 9:13:15 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Per the victim list posted above, it looks like that was the case. A likely fatigued and relatively inexperienced pilot (given his age) flying a jet to minimums as a single pilot. Doesn’t exactly leave a lot to the imagination given what we know. Plus repeating an approach they just did seems like a waste. Could it have gotten better? Or did it get worse? Diverting to a towered Airport that's getting pireps and can adjust approach lighting seems like a better plan |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 9:59:06 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: never go below the glideslope. :( Especially on a VNAV approach!! |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 10:02:09 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Plus repeating an approach they just did seems like a waste. Could it have gotten better? Or did it get worse? Diverting to a towered Airport that's getting pireps and can adjust approach lighting seems like a better plan Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Per the victim list posted above, it looks like that was the case. A likely fatigued and relatively inexperienced pilot (given his age) flying a jet to minimums as a single pilot. Doesn’t exactly leave a lot to the imagination given what we know. Plus repeating an approach they just did seems like a waste. Could it have gotten better? Or did it get worse? Diverting to a towered Airport that's getting pireps and can adjust approach lighting seems like a better plan To use a better plan, you have to actually have a better plan. Back side of the clock flying, single pilot, crappy weather to minimums with not much experience, is asking a lot. |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 10:06:32 PM EDT
[#11]
Survived impact but JetA engulfed them in flames, to a fiery death. Not the way to go…
 Proper game plan was to divert to another field with better landing conditions? |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 10:14:12 PM EDT
[#12]
Charged fuselage? Like electric?
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Posted: 7/9/2023 10:17:00 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Charged fuselage? Like electric? Like most FAA fatality reports, most are inconclusive, even with video recordings of crash. So being an FAA crash inspector puts your report logic at wits within the inaccuracies of a local TV weatherman. Shit job, good pay, but who gives a fuck if you are right because you get a Govt. paycheck with excellent benefits, and the dead don’t complain… |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 10:28:24 PM EDT
[#14]
Wonder if the pilot was considering diverting but got pressured by the passengers to land? I would think a young pilot like that would be super cautious.
. |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 10:31:25 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Like most FAA fatality reports, most are inconclusive, even with video recordings of crash. So being an FAA crash inspector puts your report logic at wits within the inaccuracies of a local TV weatherman. Shit job, good pay, but who gives a fuck if you are right because you get a Govt. paycheck with excellent benefits, and the dead don't complain Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Charged fuselage? Like electric? Like most FAA fatality reports, most are inconclusive, even with video recordings of crash. So being an FAA crash inspector puts your report logic at wits within the inaccuracies of a local TV weatherman. Shit job, good pay, but who gives a fuck if you are right because you get a Govt. paycheck with excellent benefits, and the dead don't complain |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 10:43:10 PM EDT
[#16]
Not in aviation but NFW I would trust my life to a single 25 year old pilot!
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Posted: 7/9/2023 10:43:25 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wonder if the pilot was considering diverting but got pressured by the passengers to land? I would think a young pilot like that would be super cautious. . My thought given the age is that he was unable to be pilot in command and either say NO for the flight or divert if one carefully done approach showed it to be unsafe. |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 10:45:20 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Survived impact but JetA engulfed them in flames, to a fiery death. Not the way to go… Proper game plan was to divert to another field with better landing conditions? Diverting early is usually the best course of action. But depending on the age of avionics, the first he might have known the weather was shit was a controller or ATIS reception. |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 10:52:39 PM EDT
[#19]
ATIS is talking to an inanimate ATC. It’s gives current conditions, which could change rapidly. I want a real voice, on a tower to help me decide if a landing is go, or no go.
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Posted: 7/9/2023 10:54:40 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You can get a single pilot type waiver for the 550. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Is the C550 a single pilot rated aircraft? Between the weather, where the crash was, and the fact the aircraft was very active leading up to the crash, those holes in the Swiss cheese are already starting to appear. You can get a single pilot type waiver for the 550. Most insurance companies will give a big “fuck you” to that |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 10:55:21 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Harry Reid rated an airport? It’s a joke and a fucking travesty. |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 11:03:58 PM EDT
[#22]
That being said I know of a high time delta pilot that landed well below mins on a gps approach cause he needed to get home. People do stupid shit.
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Posted: 7/9/2023 11:04:52 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ATIS is talking to an inanimate ATC. It’s gives current conditions, which could change rapidly. I want a real voice, on a tower to help me decide if a landing is go, or no go. Never did 135 air ambulance, I see |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 11:15:46 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Never did 135 air ambulance, I see Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: ATIS is talking to an inanimate ATC. It’s gives current conditions, which could change rapidly. I want a real voice, on a tower to help me decide if a landing is go, or no go. Never did 135 air ambulance, I see ATC isn't the approach police. If the pilot says they want the approach, then they get the approach. |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 11:25:16 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: Assuming it's Part 91, it's legal to look/see the approach. If it's Part 135/121, that's not allowed. You need the visibility to commence the approach. Either way, giving him the benefit of the doubt that it was a Part 91 flight (which it doesn't seem it was), he had his look on the first approach, and it sucked bad enough that he couldn't see the runway. That's the time he should have just gone to an alternate instead of trying again in the same shit Wx. It wasn't going to get any better in that 5 minutes. Quoted: Because the pax had their cars at French Valley and we're giving them shit because they wanted to divert to ONT? Not an unusual scenario. Wouldn't be surprised, but better to be slightly inconvenienced and alive than turned into crispy critters in a fiery crash. Seems it's called PILOT in command, not PASSENGER in command for a reason. He was being paid to do pilot shit, and sometimes that means saying "no" to passengers. I'm sure his bosses at the 135 operation would have been pissed at him for a couple hours, but again, better to be fired than be ON fire. |
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Posted: 7/10/2023 2:26:54 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Diverting early is usually the best course of action. But depending on the age of avionics, the first he might have known the weather was shit was a controller or ATIS reception. No ATIS. AWOS-3. CTAF/UNICOM: 122.8 WX AWOS-3: 119.025 (951-696-1018) MARCH APPROACH: 133.5 134.0 MARCH DEPARTURE: 133.5 134.0 WX AWOS-3PT at HMT (11 nm NE): 118.375 (951-925-6886) WX AWOS-3P at L18 (15 nm SW): 118.425 (760-723-6073) |
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Posted: 7/10/2023 2:29:25 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Partly why I wonder if the AWOS said the same thing as the METAR, but I bet we'll never know. I am assuming that the METAR is derived from the airport (F70) AWOS system that broadcasts that data on the AWOS frequency and is also sent to some external facility since it does show up on aviation related websites. I just checked Airnav.com for a local airport and the METAR listed there is 21 minutes old. Update...now one is nine minutes old. |
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Posted: 7/10/2023 2:51:47 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IN before 87 pages of 'not the pilots fault/non-explosions/SMEs/' ad nauseam But that’s the fun of it! Guaranteed laughs. |
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Posted: 7/10/2023 2:54:44 AM EDT
[#29]
Pilot, 26, and car dealership owner, 46, who are among six people killed in California plane crash when jet missed the runway in heavy fog - as their devastated friends pay tributes
 Victims of a horrific plane crash where the aircraft burst into flames killing all six people inside have been identified by authorities. They included the pilots, Riese Lenders, 25, of Rancho Palos Verdes, and 32-year-old Manuel Vargas-Regalado of Temecula, as well as his wife, 33-year-old Abigail Tellez-Vargas. Ibrahem Razick, 46, who goes by Abe, and 51-year-old Alma Razick of Temecula and Lindsey Gleiche, 31, of Huntington Beach, were also killed. Pictures and tributes have poured in for Lenders, who was remembered as a 'great man.' 'RIP Riese Lenders we were just getting going young blood! You went out this morning doing what you loved and truly mad you stoked daily,' one social-media post read. 'You will be remembered as my friend, my pilot and one hell of a great man! So fun and so in tune with life. You were a pleasure to be around. 'We will deeply miss your presence. Love all of us here at the Mamelli Family. You were adopted a while ago. I will miss you buddy.' The 25-year-old appeared to love the outdoors, often posting on social media his adventures including skiing, surfing and camping. Ibrahem Razick, who also goes by Abraham, was a car dealer and ex-marine. Fullerton Ford and Hyundai/Kia Yuma both posted their condolences as they mourned the 46-year-old they described as a 'loving husband, father, brother and proud United States Marine.' 'Today our hearts are heavy in the Fullerton Ford OC family. Our owner Abraham Razick, tragically passed away yesterday. He was a loving husband, father, brother, and proud United States Marine,' the posts read. 'His spirit and passion for life will not be forgotten along with his commitment to making his community a better place. Honor, courage, and commitment are values he learned serving in the Marine Corps and values he lived by everyday. 'Rest easy, Abe. You'll forever be in our hearts. Semper Fi, Marine.' Continued |
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Posted: 7/10/2023 7:08:27 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bet its going to be a CFIT #2 leading cause of fatalities in GA. |
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Posted: 7/10/2023 7:35:26 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wonder if the pilot was considering diverting but got pressured by the passengers to land? I would think a young pilot like that would be super cautious. . Or, possibly, quite the opposite. |
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Posted: 7/10/2023 8:22:56 AM EDT
[#32]
I remember one time in the sim when doing a low non precision approach. I busted out and spotted the runway but was way off centerline and started to turn towards it. My sim partner said "this is exactly what it looks like just before you die" "go around I said. That has always stuck with me and served me well.
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Posted: 7/10/2023 8:30:33 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ATIS is talking to an inanimate ATC. It’s gives current conditions, which could change rapidly. I want a real voice, on a tower to help me decide if a landing is go, or no go. That's not real in commercial aviation. Doubly so in 135 or professional 91. As an instructor, you drum into studs "how does every instrument approach terminate?" The correct answer is "a missed approach." The crew determines the conditions of a safe landing. ATC/CTAF is there to assist in traffic flow and separation. |
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Posted: 7/10/2023 8:33:46 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Most insurance companies will give a big “fuck you” to that As they should, but certainly not common where I was at when I was doing lots of light jet and turboprop stuff. Throw in 135, and the FSDO might make you choose between single pilot or crew for all operations in that type. Multiple FSDOs have held that single pilot 135 approval in a type of aircraft means no one can occupy the the other seat. Others have allowed for a mild deviation in that regard. YMMV. |
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Posted: 7/10/2023 9:19:31 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wonder if the pilot was considering diverting but got pressured by the passengers to land? I would think a young pilot like that would be super cautious. . I can only answer for myself, but in my case, it was the exact opposite. I found caution with experience and age. The things I did as a 25 year old Eagle Driver........... |
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Posted: 7/10/2023 9:20:35 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am assuming that the METAR is derived from the airport (F70) AWOS system that broadcasts that data on the AWOS frequency and is also sent to some external facility since it does show up on aviation related websites. I just checked Airnav.com for a local airport and the METAR listed there is 21 minutes old. Update...now one is nine minutes old. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Partly why I wonder if the AWOS said the same thing as the METAR, but I bet we'll never know. I am assuming that the METAR is derived from the airport (F70) AWOS system that broadcasts that data on the AWOS frequency and is also sent to some external facility since it does show up on aviation related websites. I just checked Airnav.com for a local airport and the METAR listed there is 21 minutes old. Update...now one is nine minutes old. AWOS is a snapshot that is not updated often enough to be trustworthy. I have landed when AWOS was reporting wind 180 degrees from the current condition. Visibility reporting should not be trusted, it's slightly better than simply guessing from where you sit. |
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Posted: 7/10/2023 9:21:34 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That being said I know of a high time delta pilot that landed well below mins on a gps approach cause he needed to get home. People do stupid shit. In a Delta jet or his own aircraft? I have never heard of that in the airline. I did it twice in the military as the only other option besides ejecting. But military flying is different, sometimes circumstances you have no control over, puts you in a situation with very limited options and you do what you have to do. |
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Posted: 7/10/2023 9:24:15 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Harry Reid rated an airport? It was previously named "McCarran Airport" after an ardent anti-communist Senator from the 30s-50s who was a staunch opponent of Roosevelt's New Deal so of course they had to cancel his ass and replace him with Harry Reid. |
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Posted: 7/10/2023 9:27:11 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not the first time a pilot got a case of get thereitis in the soup. I heard the offer to divert from the tower to this pilot. He decided to continue his approach into the small airport rather than the properly equipped and less socked in airport. Not long after I was forwarded a text from a passenger that I know on it. He was sitting in the right seat for the ride. His head went into the panel and cut him up pretty good. He described what he saw and heard. The annunciator was barking "too low. Terrain" over and over until the yoke holder quipped "shut the fuck up" and muted it. Then he saw the field come into the window at almost the same instant as the plane hit the field. Luckily noone was killed. https://live.staticflickr.com/5665/30384817304_49cf49e1d4_b.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/5679/30400552664_2d79ecea04_b.jpg Missed it by that much... 1/4 mile short. The pilot was very experienced too. He knew better. Good grief... |
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Posted: 7/10/2023 9:28:19 AM EDT
[#40]
"GLIDESLOPE!"
"GLIDESLOPE!" "GLIDESLOPE!" "MINIMUMS!" "MINIMUMS!" "MINIMUMS!" "TERRAIN!" "TERRAIN!" "TERRAIN!" "PULL UP WOOP-WOOP!" "PULL UP WOOP-WOOP!" "PULL....." |
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Posted: 7/10/2023 9:28:37 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It was previously named "McCarran Airport" after an ardent anti-communist Senator from the 30s-50s who was a staunch opponent of Roosevelt's New Deal so of course they had to cancel his ass and replace him with Harry Reid. 
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Posted: 7/10/2023 9:32:57 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So vis below minimums for the RNAV... Wonder what the AWOS said, and if the AWOS said below min for the approach, why did he even try to get in there instead of just going to his alternate? Because Get-there-itis is a thing. |
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Posted: 7/10/2023 6:34:18 PM EDT
[#43]
Dude only got his instrument rating in 2019. He had no business in that plane.
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Posted: 7/10/2023 6:45:04 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dude only got his instrument rating in 2019. He had no business in that plane. The FAA said he was fine..... but see the note  Certificate: COMMERCIAL PILOT Date of Issue: 4/10/2023 Ratings: COMMERCIAL PILOT AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND AIRPLANE MULTIENGINE LAND INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE Type Ratings: C/CE-500 Limits: ENGLISH PROFICIENT. CE-500 SECOND IN COMMAND REQUIRED. |
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Posted: 7/10/2023 7:47:13 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The FAA said he was fine..... but see the note Certificate: COMMERCIAL PILOT Date of Issue: 4/10/2023 Ratings: COMMERCIAL PILOT AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND AIRPLANE MULTIENGINE LAND INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE Type Ratings: C/CE-500 Limits: ENGLISH PROFICIENT. CE-500 SECOND IN COMMAND REQUIRED. Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should. |
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Posted: 7/10/2023 7:50:11 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The FAA said he was fine..... but see the note Certificate: COMMERCIAL PILOT Date of Issue: 4/10/2023 Ratings: COMMERCIAL PILOT AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND AIRPLANE MULTIENGINE LAND INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE Type Ratings: C/CE-500 Limits: ENGLISH PROFICIENT. CE-500 SECOND IN COMMAND REQUIRED.
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Posted: 7/10/2023 7:51:18 PM EDT
[#47]
A lot of young people on his flight. Too soon.
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Posted: 7/10/2023 7:53:10 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should. Could he though?? Read the last line. Needed a Second In Command. Who is that supposed to be? It sure wasn't the dealership owner- IBRAHEM H RAZICK Airman opted-out of releasing address Medical Information: No Medical Information Available Certificates STUDENT PILOT Certificates Description Certificate: STUDENT PILOT Date of Issue: 4/21/2023 Limits: CARRYING PASSENGERS IS PROHIBITED. |
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Posted: 7/10/2023 8:39:51 PM EDT
[#49]
Uh oh
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Posted: 7/10/2023 8:57:45 PM EDT
[#50]
That first paying pilot job is always the most dangerous. My first job was flying banners in Myrtle Beach, had several close calls and a brush with death, it's the nature of that business. My second job was flying cargo...err checks. It was my first 135 gig. My boss told me on day one that turning down a flight was not an option, I had to go no matter what. I flew thru my first thunderstorm, single pilot on that job. Scared the shit outa' me. It's easy to get sucked in when your livelihood depends on it and the boss is counting on you. Luckily I survived with no incidents, accidents or infractions.
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