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Posted: 6/27/2017 4:04:32 PM EDT
[#1]
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Clarification please: the failed miserably applies to both explosives and drugs or just drugs? For someone with your claimed experience I would expect you to have an opinion on what needs to be done to improve the results instead of just saying they all suck. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Me again? LOL you don't fucking know me pougeboss. I was assigned a working dag for my 2nd deployment and then fter I got out of the .mil I was the kennel master on an army post with 28 working K9s and handlers under me. I know the deal. The .mil spent a shitload for top notch dogs and training and our drugs and explosives dogs fucking SUCKED ASS that they spent tens of thousands of dollars on. When we would test them for "certification" using real narcotics easily 16-17 out of the 28 dogs FAILED miserably but were still used for vehicle inspections for people coming on post. Let me frame it like this; all pit bulls are murder dogs and you can't compare the arguments made against them to guns because its a living, free thinking being and not an inanimate object. Or; all police dogs are infallible because they are not free thinking animals with basic K9 desires to please their alpha or master. Ever find yourself wondering why police use herding dogs for these applications over hound dogs? |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 4:04:56 PM EDT
[#2]
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So the US Government spends thousands and that makes it legit? They recklessly spend thousands of dollars everyday on worthless things all the time which end up being well below average in quality. A good handler and a quality dog will be right more often than not. And a more specific to this thread a good cop will know who the good handlers are and who aren't. Sometimes you can't prove lack of quality but you can refuse to use it. For example. I called for a K9 on a stop. The driver was driving erratically, had all the signs of being on methamphetamine, and refused a search of his vehicle. I had enough reasonable suspicion to extend the stop to wait three minutes for the dog. The dog, handled by a local officer, arrived. I watched the dog but not closely. The handler signaled a positive hit. I searched the vehicle and found nothing. Absolutely nothing. Later I got to thinking about the dogs "hit". I didn't recognize any familiar or common alert signal from the dog. I asked the handlers, roommate/coworker/best friend about it, and he roles his eyes and said the handler used a "change in the dogs demeanor" as a hit. That was the last time I used that handler. A positive hit isn't a "change in demeanor". Had I located a controlled substance during that stop and arrested the guy I would have felt compelled to go to the prosecutor to have the case dropped due to this. Integrity is of the utmost importance to me. That said. The other dog in the county only hits when there's something to hit on. I've never seen him miss in a way that violates rights. I've heard in the past the handler with another dog missed a decent amount of stuff because the dog didn't hit but that's our loss. It the citizen's. The handler and dog team are very good. Quote HistoryQuoted:
So the US Government spends thousands and that makes it legit? They recklessly spend thousands of dollars everyday on worthless things all the time which end up being well below average in quality. A good handler and a quality dog will be right more often than not. And a more specific to this thread a good cop will know who the good handlers are and who aren't. Sometimes you can't prove lack of quality but you can refuse to use it. For example. I called for a K9 on a stop. The driver was driving erratically, had all the signs of being on methamphetamine, and refused a search of his vehicle. I had enough reasonable suspicion to extend the stop to wait three minutes for the dog. The dog, handled by a local officer, arrived. I watched the dog but not closely. The handler signaled a positive hit. I searched the vehicle and found nothing. Absolutely nothing. Later I got to thinking about the dogs "hit". I didn't recognize any familiar or common alert signal from the dog. I asked the handlers, roommate/coworker/best friend about it, and he roles his eyes and said the handler used a "change in the dogs demeanor" as a hit. That was the last time I used that handler. A positive hit isn't a "change in demeanor". Had I located a controlled substance during that stop and arrested the guy I would have felt compelled to go to the prosecutor to have the case dropped due to this. Integrity is of the utmost importance to me. That said. The other dog in the county only hits when there's something to hit on. I've never seen him miss in a way that violates rights. I've heard in the past the handler with another dog missed a decent amount of stuff because the dog didn't hit but that's our loss. It the citizen's. The handler and dog team are very good. Quoted:
Me again? LOL you don't fucking know me pougeboss. I was assigned a working dag for my 2nd deployment and then fter I got out of the .mil I was the kennel master on an army post with 28 working K9s and handlers under me. I know the deal. The .mil spent a shitload for top notch dogs and training and our drugs and explosives dogs fucking SUCKED ASS that they spent tens of thousands of dollars on. When we would test them for "certification" using real narcotics easily 16-17 out of the 28 dogs FAILED miserably but were still used for vehicle inspections for people coming on post. You act so damn self righteous talking about ethics but know a blatant unconstitutional action is happening every fucking day. Eat shit and step on a lego |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 4:07:28 PM EDT
[#3]
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probably just report ARFCOM to the BBB for not protecting his ego. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 4:07:28 PM EDT
[#4]
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I think you guys are taking what I'm saying the wrong way. I'm not supporting the authorities for do the wrong thing or breaking the law themselves. I'm not saying what they did in the drywall dust or doughnut meth cases were right - far from it. But in BOTH cases, the "victims" put themselves in peril. The drywall dude by having a criminal history and being on probation; and the doughnut dude by speeding. All I'm saying is if you don't put yourself in bad situations by doing something stupid or against the law, past or present, then you have a better chance of avoiding crooked cops in the first place. Am I wrong? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Donut glaze story: when he was pulled over for speeding, according to a report in the Orlando Sentinel. All I'm saying is if you don't put yourself in bad situations by doing something stupid or against the law, past or present, then you have a better chance of avoiding crooked cops in the first place. Am I wrong? Now if I'm speeding, I'm asking be thrown in jail over donut residue. You might have missed a spot, get back down there and lick the jackboots some more. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 4:08:45 PM EDT
[#5]
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If everyone conveniently ignoring the field test that came back positive? Or the fact that the defendant was on active probation for cocaine possession? I'd be rather interested in knowing where the powder was found, and in what kind of packaging, if any... |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 4:08:48 PM EDT
[#6]
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Me again? LOL you don't fucking know me pougeboss. I was assigned a working dag for my 2nd deployment and then fter I got out of the .mil I was the kennel master on an army post with 28 working K9s and handlers under me. I know the deal. The .mil spent a shitload for top notch dogs and training and our drugs and explosives dogs fucking SUCKED ASS that they spent tens of thousands of dollars on. When we would test them for "certification" using real narcotics easily 16-17 out of the 28 dogs FAILED miserably but were still used for vehicle inspections for people coming on post. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 4:10:35 PM EDT
[#7]
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That's some counterargument. 
Also just more evidence that field tests are worthless at anything other than making the manufactures money. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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LOL no it doesn't. It is FACT that dogs are missused 100% of the time and most times there is a "hit" is because the handler wants PC to search and signals it. There have been NUMEROUS independent tests that shows that dogs are wrong something like 60%+ of the time. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2015/08/04/federal-appeals-court-drug-dog-thats-barely-more-accurate-than-a-coin-flip-is-good-enough/ http://national.suntimes.com/national-world-news/7/72/2572167/drug-sniffing-police-dogs-inaccurate-reflect-racial-bias/ http://reason.com/blog/2013/02/27/how-even-a-well-trained-narcotics-detect
Also just more evidence that field tests are worthless at anything other than making the manufactures money. Woman sits for six months in federal prison before lab test proves field test kit wrong Military officer arrested on bogus charges Another person sent to jail Even local Law Enforcment agency was concerned over false negatives You want me to continue LOL YOU AGAIN I'm assuming your in Law Enforcement if that is so your comment sucks with an attitude like that. Even sending one innocient person to jail using those kits does not justify there use. My brother that's a deputy sheriff agrees that these kits should not be used because of this. But fortunately he's a helicopter pilot for S.O. and not a patrol deputy. My question knowing they are bad why use them. If it send one innocient person to jail or does that not matter anymore. After all everyone is guilty of something. They just have not got caught. 
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Posted: 6/27/2017 4:13:19 PM EDT
[#8]
Even if the dog's handler is honest, and well intentioned, they could unintentionally be giving a very slight signal to the dog to,alert.
There is a very simple solution to all the discussion of whether the dogs are misused or not: Keep records of the dog's work in the field, with those records showing the number of searches done, number of false alerts, and number of correct alerts. If the dog's percentage of false alerts rises to anything over a certain number, both dog and handler are returned for more training. If the dog's record does not improve sufficiently, the dog and handler are BOTH taken out of service. Chemical drug field testing has to have a certain level of reliability or it is no longer used as it's results are not trustworthy. Drug dogs and their handlers should be held to a similar level of reliability and competence if the public is to have faith in that system. Certainly humans and dog's can make mistakes. But there is an immense difference between an occasional and understandable honest error, and outright and deliberate false alerts. Any percentage number for false alerts that would end a dog and handler's work needs to take into account that occasional mistakes are normal. I would not trust the defense attorney association, or the police department's disqualification percentage as each side would have their own "dog in the fight". Rather, some agency like the appellate judges association, or the department of justice should set the disqualification level. The public's civil rights outweigh a department's desire to circumvent obtaining a search warrant. That is precisely why those civil rights were written down in the first place. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 4:20:11 PM EDT
[#9]
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lol I know how GD is. make sure we include getting rid of the dogs that track missing children and other suspects too Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Did you think there'd be some kind of disagreement on that point?  make sure we include getting rid of the dogs that track missing children and other suspects too Policy based on temper tantrum? There are civil rights and reliability issues with drug dogs, so getting rid of them means that we need to get rid of all jobs dogs do? That's your argument? I'm taking my ball and going home?
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Posted: 6/27/2017 4:28:59 PM EDT
[#10]
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Exactly how did the suspect violate his probation? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Made sure it was cocaine? He didn't. Thin blue line , yo. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 4:29:50 PM EDT
[#11]
This exactly! Innocent until proven guilty, except in cases where the LEO feels someone is guilty.
It's better to lock up a thousand innocent men than to let one guilty one go free. That's one of the principles America was founded on. You, sir, are a true patriot. Forgot quote: Quoted:
I wasn't on that jury so I can't comment on the validity of those charges or subsequent convictions. But I think it is safe to say if he had no priors, the cops probably would have taken his word that is was just drywall dust - and at the very least, the judge wouldn't have denied him bail while they were waiting on the lab results. Am I wrong? I'll go on to say that having family members and close friends in LE as well as watching 100s of COPS episodes, and knowing drug addicts personally - I have learned that people who use or deal drugs are the biggest liars on the planet. And LE knows it. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 4:29:59 PM EDT
[#12]
My dog can signal if you have a lizard in your pocket. or have had a lizard in your possession.
100% accuracy. no lizard can hide or be hidden 
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Posted: 6/27/2017 4:30:21 PM EDT
[#13]
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Quit ignoring the actual chain of events Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Dog alerted Test showed false positive Speedy trial not had not charged with new crime, held because of probation terms that most likely don't require conviction of new charges in order to revoke probation Released upon lab test confirmation Quit trying to separate something that is relative. As the saying goes, good enough for government work. Quit acting like these things are isolated incidences. Quit acting things with 60 and 70 percent failure rates - K9 alerts and false positives - are acceptable RS to jail innocent men. It is truly ironic that we can sit here and admit that the government fucks up everything it touches but somehow exclude LE from government. A guy spends 90 days in jail for gypsum dust while a cop that likes little girls doesn't spend a day in jail, let alone having to register as a sex offender within the dame week. Idk this guys story, but I find myself wondering if he lost his apartment, belongings, job, or if this strained family relations for at least 90 days over what amounts to bullshit government overreaching in the first place. If the expert witnesses can use strawman arguments, so can a lowly pleb with a horrible recollection of events (as per LEO). I fight fire with fire. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 4:30:43 PM EDT
[#14]
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lol I know how GD is. make sure we include getting rid of the dogs that track missing children and other suspects too Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Did you think there'd be some kind of disagreement on that point? make sure we include getting rid of the dogs that track missing children and other suspects too So the LEO gets his trusty old K9 out walks it over your car. It bark and jumps on your new car scratches the shit out of it. You know for a damn fact there's absolutely nothing in your car. But the LEO is dead set going through you private vehicle and searching it. Just because he's bored, who the hell knows why. Maybe he's got a hard on for you. Know I'm not saying your like this or have ever been involved with an officer that ever did this to anyone  But tell me with 100 percent certainty this does not happen. Tell me the test kit do not give false results. Tell me you did not just belittle that member for bring up that a man spent 90 days in jail for have drywall dust in his truck.
Tell me that's right what you did. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 4:31:27 PM EDT
[#15]
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I wasn't on that jury so I can't comment on the validity of those charges or subsequent convictions. But I think it is safe to say if he had no priors, the cops probably would have taken his word that is was just drywall dust - and at the very least, the judge wouldn't have denied him bail while they were waiting on the lab results. Am I wrong? I'll go on to say that having family members and close friends in LE as well as watching 100s of COPS episodes, and knowing drug addicts personally - I have learned that people who use or deal drugs are the biggest liars on the planet. And LE knows it.
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Posted: 6/27/2017 4:34:50 PM EDT
[#16]
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I don't think suing should be necessary. I think each level of "legal", wrongful kidnapping should at the minimum carry a financial penalty, and reparations. Something like this... 1. $10,000 for the arrest itself plus any damage to property or loss of wages. 2. $10,000 for the initial booking at the jail, and then 3x the person's hourly earnings (or minimum wage if unemployed), for each hour spent in jail. All paid upon exoneration. Then the municipality must undergo the expense to clear the person's name, articles and press releases, whatever it takes. Because like it or not, admit it or not, everyone pretty much makes assumptions about you if you're arrested. It matters not whether you're innocent or what you're being arrested for, we all make conscious and subconscious assumptions about the arrestee. I think the state should be held accountable for unjustified or mistaken disruptions to a person's life, and it should be enough to make them a little more reluctant to pull the trigger willy-nilly, or abuse their "legal" authority. It should also more than make the arrestee whole, and compensate him/her for the trauma and disruption to their life. I also think the arresting officer, and any other government official involved should be thoroughly investigated, and at the very least reprimanded and retrained. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 4:43:22 PM EDT
[#17]
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Don't fuck up the field tests. What are they doing to make this right? They kidnapped and held a man for three months for no reason. Three months means no home no car no job no phone. So what are they doing to get the guys three months back? What steps have been taken to ensure that it won't happen again? You have two entirely separate failures that led to this problem. Both need to be fixed what is being done? Why do I have a feeling that the answer to most of the above is nothing? That is why you don't get the "what else should we have done" excuse. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yeah he was. Is it messed up after the fact? Sure it is. But What would you have done differently? They had PC at the time to charge him with the offense. He was kept in jail due to the charge violating his probation. I would like to know what you would have done differently. Sucks for him though. And my original comment was to you saying all field tests are for is making money. Many departments don't use them anymore. What are they doing to make this right? They kidnapped and held a man for three months for no reason. Three months means no home no car no job no phone. So what are they doing to get the guys three months back? What steps have been taken to ensure that it won't happen again? You have two entirely separate failures that led to this problem. Both need to be fixed what is being done? Why do I have a feeling that the answer to most of the above is nothing? That is why you don't get the "what else should we have done" excuse. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 4:44:57 PM EDT
[#18]
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This exactly! Innocent until proven guilty, except in cases where the LEO feels someone is guilty. It's better to lock up a thousand innocent men than to let one guilty one go free. That's one of the principles America was founded on. You, sir, are a true patriot. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 4:47:19 PM EDT
[#19]
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See you just twisted things out of proportion. We are talking about using dogs for violating our 4th admendment by getting them to give false hits because people said no to leeting LEOs search our vehicles. So the LEO gets his trusty old K9 out walks it over your car. It bark and jumps on your new car scratches the shit out of it. You know for a damn fact there's absolutely nothing in your car. But the LEO is dead set going through you private vehicle and searching it. Just because he's bored, who the hell knows why. Maybe he's got a hard on for you. Know I'm not saying your like this or have ever been involved with an officer that ever did this to anyone But tell me with 100 percent certainty this does not happen. Tell me the test kit do not give false results. Tell me you did not just belittle that member for bring up that a man spent 90 days in jail for have drywall dust in his truck.
Tell that's right what you did. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Did you think there'd be some kind of disagreement on that point? make sure we include getting rid of the dogs that track missing children and other suspects too So the LEO gets his trusty old K9 out walks it over your car. It bark and jumps on your new car scratches the shit out of it. You know for a damn fact there's absolutely nothing in your car. But the LEO is dead set going through you private vehicle and searching it. Just because he's bored, who the hell knows why. Maybe he's got a hard on for you. Know I'm not saying your like this or have ever been involved with an officer that ever did this to anyone But tell me with 100 percent certainty this does not happen. Tell me the test kit do not give false results. Tell me you did not just belittle that member for bring up that a man spent 90 days in jail for have drywall dust in his truck.
Tell that's right what you did. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 4:54:43 PM EDT
[#20]
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I am a big fan of diatomaceous earth (DE) as a natural pest control. I bought five pounds of the chalk-like white powder from ebay years ago and swear by the stuff. Often other gardeners with bugs balk at my DE suggestion so I get them a baggie's worth for them to try. The stuff is really cheap so I give them about a cup's worth. I'm always afraid that I'm going to get caught with the big ole bag of white powder at a traffic stop or a random entry search at work. No really, it's diatomaceous earth ... chalk. And then fear the field test is going to ID it as cocaine, heroin or cannabis.  
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Posted: 6/27/2017 4:55:11 PM EDT
[#21]
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Oh FFS. Now if I'm speeding, I'm asking be thrown in jail over donut residue. You might have missed a spot, get back down there and lick the jackboots some more. I'm just saying if you don't break the law and attract attention to yourself, you have a better chance of avoiding contact with LE. And that's a fact. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 4:55:16 PM EDT
[#22]
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We haven't even addressed the fact that if the expert witness believes you to be guilty of something and cannot produce evidence, you had better not be on your way to buy anything of value with your hard earned cash. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Did you think there'd be some kind of disagreement on that point? make sure we include getting rid of the dogs that track missing children and other suspects too So the LEO gets his trusty old K9 out walks it over your car. It bark and jumps on your new car scratches the shit out of it. You know for a damn fact there's absolutely nothing in your car. But the LEO is dead set going through you private vehicle and searching it. Just because he's bored, who the hell knows why. Maybe he's got a hard on for you. Know I'm not saying your like this or have ever been involved with an officer that ever did this to anyone But tell me with 100 percent certainty this does not happen. Tell me the test kit do not give false results. Tell me you did not just belittle that member for bring up that a man spent 90 days in jail for have drywall dust in his truck.
Tell that's right what you did.
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Posted: 6/27/2017 5:00:14 PM EDT
[#23]
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You hippies and your green earth pot needles. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I am a big fan of diatomaceous earth (DE) as a natural pest control. I bought five pounds of the chalk-like white powder from ebay years ago and swear by the stuff. Often other gardeners with bugs balk at my DE suggestion so I get them a baggie's worth for them to try. The stuff is really cheap so I give them about a cup's worth. I'm always afraid that I'm going to get caught with the big ole bag of white powder at a traffic stop or a random entry search at work. No really, it's diatomaceous earth ... chalk. And then fear the field test is going to ID it as cocaine, heroin or cannabis. 
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Posted: 6/27/2017 5:10:15 PM EDT
[#24]
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Why the stupid ass remark? I'm just saying if you don't break the law and attract attention to yourself, you have a better chance of avoiding contact with LE. And that's a fact. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Oh FFS. Now if I'm speeding, I'm asking be thrown in jail over donut residue. You might have missed a spot, get back down there and lick the jackboots some more. I'm just saying if you don't break the law and attract attention to yourself, you have a better chance of avoiding contact with LE. And that's a fact. Girl gets hammered and walks through the ghetto alone, something bad happens. Terrible incident but reasonable cause and effect conclusion can be drawn. Guy is speeding driving his sick friend to cancer treatment, gets thrown in jail over glazed donut crumb. Shit incident and no reasonable cause and effect conclusion can be drawn. Furthermore what happened to the young lady in the scenario above is illegal, people will be punished severely if caught. Retarded cops in these scenarios go about their way and WE the taxpayers pay for it. And then you have their fellow cops get on here and defend it instead of calling for some kind of change. So your little trite, don't speed and you won't have to worry about it solution is stupid and actually defends the perpetrators of an incident. Instead of calling for change, calling for some kind of reasonable assessment to reduce or eliminate these events, you advise people to be perfect instead. So yes get back down on your hands and knees and lick your masters boots some more and pray you're never speeding after you ate a donut because if you go to jail over this same bullshit, you were asking for it. 
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Posted: 6/27/2017 5:11:25 PM EDT
[#25]
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what if they're called for a sniff after a shooting and locate a gun? Can that be used for evidence? Or can we not trust the dog? |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 5:17:14 PM EDT
[#26]
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Those dangerous blue Jolly Ranchers. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 5:32:52 PM EDT
[#27]
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If everyone conveniently ignoring the field test that came back positive? Or the fact that the defendant was on active probation for cocaine possession? I'd be rather interested in knowing where the powder was found, and in what kind of packaging, if any... |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 5:50:58 PM EDT
[#28]
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Why the stupid ass remark? I'm just saying if you don't break the law and attract attention to yourself, you have a better chance of avoiding contact with LE. And that's a fact. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Oh FFS. Now if I'm speeding, I'm asking be thrown in jail over donut residue. You might have missed a spot, get back down there and lick the jackboots some more. I'm just saying if you don't break the law and attract attention to yourself, you have a better chance of avoiding contact with LE. And that's a fact. We got pulled over 2 or so weeks ago because the shitty stickers the state made us buy are curling prematurely. Even after he saw that his RS went out the window when he walked up to us, he still wanted our papers. I wasn't even driving and he wanted my ID. I have been pulled over and all but harassed for a license plate bulb being out, yet there are several departments here that are easily identified from behind because their bulbs are removed. They probably need those extra 2 amps for the other flashing lights. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 5:53:11 PM EDT
[#29]
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If everyone conveniently ignoring the field test that came back positive? Or the fact that the defendant was on active probation for cocaine possession? I'd be rather interested in knowing where the powder was found, and in what kind of packaging, if any... |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 5:55:30 PM EDT
[#30]
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Oh for fucks sake. You're supposed to dig up not down. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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what if they're called for a sniff after a shooting and locate a gun? Can that be used for evidence? Or can we not trust the dog? This is the second time you've done this. Stop twisting the facts. Search and rescue dogs are different than K9 dogs used by LEOs to preform bogus searches on people simply because they say no you can't search my car. Ok then my trusty K9 walter will give me the excuse to search it with out your permission. Screw you. You tell me as a police officer that a K9 officer can not get his dog to give a false signal on something so police can search it after being refused by the owner. I already know what your answer is. But I know a K9 officer. Well retired one and I know what he said or heard what he said talking to other officers at the range. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 5:57:18 PM EDT
[#31]
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You're right. Dogs have 0 use. Let's get rid of them all. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 6:04:32 PM EDT
[#32]
I just found out someone is a cop and I can't fucking believe it.
At least he's on my ignore list. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 6:14:44 PM EDT
[#33]
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Seems to me if the guy didn't break the law in the past, he probably wouldn't have been denied bail and spent 90 days in jail. Regardless of how you view field searches with or without dogs, the fact of the matter is the guy was on probation and that was what got him in trouble. I agree the cops and the court unjustly detained this guy, but if he had a clean record, he probably would have never seen the inside of a cop car or jail cell to begin with. Like it or not your past mistakes (ie: criminal record) follows you in life, and it does impact how you are treated by law enforcement when they make contact with you later on. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 6:17:21 PM EDT
[#34]
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Yeah he was. Is it messed up after the fact? Sure it is. But What would you have done differently? They had PC at the time to charge him with the offense. He was kept in jail due to the charge violating his probation. I would like to know what you would have done differently. Sucks for him though. And my original comment was to you saying all field tests are for is making money. Many departments don't use them anymore. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So this guy wasn't arrested and jailed for 90 days? But What would you have done differently? They had PC at the time to charge him with the offense. He was kept in jail due to the charge violating his probation. I would like to know what you would have done differently. Sucks for him though. And my original comment was to you saying all field tests are for is making money. Many departments don't use them anymore. The PC wasn't legit despite the legality of it. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 6:18:58 PM EDT
[#35]
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What weight do you give a field test that identifies gypsum as cocaine? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If everyone conveniently ignoring the field test that came back positive? Or the fact that the defendant was on active probation for cocaine possession? I'd be rather interested in knowing where the powder was found, and in what kind of packaging, if any... Or the same weight of Jolly Ranchers.............. "Taylor also claimed that he administered a field test to determine if the candy was narcotics and got a “positive” result, the complaint states." |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 6:22:33 PM EDT
[#36]
The Home Depot Cartel must be stopped. They are flooding our streets with poison.
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Posted: 6/27/2017 6:36:53 PM EDT
[#37]
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So, because of his prior criminality, he should expect to be incarcerated for innocent behavior? |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 6:38:20 PM EDT
[#38]
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Posted: 6/27/2017 6:39:37 PM EDT
[#39]
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Why the stupid ass remark? I'm just saying if you don't break the law and attract attention to yourself, you have a better chance of avoiding contact with LE. And that's a fact. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Oh FFS. Now if I'm speeding, I'm asking be thrown in jail over donut residue. You might have missed a spot, get back down there and lick the jackboots some more. I'm just saying if you don't break the law and attract attention to yourself, you have a better chance of avoiding contact with LE. And that's a fact.  Attached FileYou should be proud of your apparently clean record and take every opportunity to let people know that you would never be in the position to be mistaken for a common ruffian. Good on you! Your great life choices not withstanding: What other past indiscretions justify an innocent mans 90 day incarceration? What if he had just a felony drug arrest on his record and no conviction? Serious question. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 6:43:29 PM EDT
[#40]
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what are the terms of his probation? PC to arrest does not mean you are actually guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. In this case there were multiple mistakes from what I've read. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Made sure it was cocaine? |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 6:44:48 PM EDT
[#41]
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I don't think suing should be necessary. I think each level of "legal", wrongful kidnapping should at the minimum carry a financial penalty, and reparations. Something like this... 1. $10,000 for the arrest itself plus any damage to property or loss of wages. 2. $10,000 for the initial booking at the jail, and then 3x the person's hourly earnings (or minimum wage if unemployed), for each hour spent in jail. All paid upon exoneration. Then the municipality must undergo the expense to clear the person's name, articles and press releases, whatever it takes. Because like it or not, admit it or not, everyone pretty much makes assumptions about you if you're arrested. It matters not whether you're innocent or what you're being arrested for, we all make conscious and subconscious assumptions about the arrestee. I think the state should be held accountable for unjustified or mistaken disruptions to a person's life, and it should be enough to make them a little more reluctant to pull the trigger willy-nilly, or abuse their "legal" authority. It should also more than make the arrestee whole, and compensate him/her for the trauma and disruption to their life. I also think the arresting officer, and any other government official involved should be thoroughly investigated, and at the very least reprimanded and retrained. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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i would be suing the shit out of that dept. . makes you wonder if dogs are actually misused regularly. Something like this... 1. $10,000 for the arrest itself plus any damage to property or loss of wages. 2. $10,000 for the initial booking at the jail, and then 3x the person's hourly earnings (or minimum wage if unemployed), for each hour spent in jail. All paid upon exoneration. Then the municipality must undergo the expense to clear the person's name, articles and press releases, whatever it takes. Because like it or not, admit it or not, everyone pretty much makes assumptions about you if you're arrested. It matters not whether you're innocent or what you're being arrested for, we all make conscious and subconscious assumptions about the arrestee. I think the state should be held accountable for unjustified or mistaken disruptions to a person's life, and it should be enough to make them a little more reluctant to pull the trigger willy-nilly, or abuse their "legal" authority. It should also more than make the arrestee whole, and compensate him/her for the trauma and disruption to their life. I also think the arresting officer, and any other government official involved should be thoroughly investigated, and at the very least reprimanded and retrained. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 6:46:23 PM EDT
[#42]
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Do you know anything about dog psychology? Let me frame it like this; all pit bulls are murder dogs and you can't compare the arguments made against them to guns because its a living, free thinking being and not an inanimate object. Or; all police dogs are infallible because they are not free thinking animals with basic K9 desires to please their alpha or master. Ever find yourself wondering why police use herding dogs for these applications over hound dogs? 
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Posted: 6/27/2017 6:53:56 PM EDT
[#43]
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i would be suing the shit out of that dept. . makes you wonder if dogs are actually misused regularly. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 6:57:18 PM EDT
[#44]
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We don't arrest and jail for drug offenses. We either summons or wait until the labs come back and submit a direct indictment. Haven't carried field tests in years Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That's some counterargument.
Also just more evidence that field tests are worthless at anything other than making the manufactures money. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 6:59:24 PM EDT
[#45]
I love a good Ouija dag thread.
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Posted: 6/27/2017 7:00:30 PM EDT
[#46]
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Seems to me if the guy didn't break the law in the past, he probably wouldn't have been denied bail and spent 90 days in jail. Regardless of how you view field searches with or without dogs, the fact of the matter is the guy was on probation and that was what got him in trouble. I agree the cops and the court unjustly detained this guy, but if he had a clean record, he probably would have never seen the inside of a cop car or jail cell to begin with. Like it or not your past mistakes (ie: criminal record) follows you in life, and it does impact how you are treated by law enforcement when they make contact with you later on. Y'all wish me luck! Or call Collin County and give them a heads up if that's your thing. 
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Posted: 6/27/2017 7:00:40 PM EDT
[#47]
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I wasn't on that jury so I can't comment on the validity of those charges or subsequent convictions. But I think it is safe to say if he had no priors, the cops probably would have taken his word that is was just drywall dust - and at the very least, the judge wouldn't have denied him bail while they were waiting on the lab results. Am I wrong? I'll go on to say that having family members and close friends in LE as well as watching 100s of COPS episodes, and knowing drug addicts personally - I have learned that people who use or deal drugs are the biggest liars on the planet. And LE knows it. If the dude works in an area where construction is going on, no shit he's going to get covered in the stuff. Cotton, denim, polyester? They're like a fucking magnet for drywall dust. If he has little ziplock baggies filled with the shit, yeah, I can see how a reasonable person would suspect shenanigans. Drug dogs are still BS. It's a fuckin' DOG... An animal that licks its own ass and chases small, furry creatures.
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Posted: 6/27/2017 7:09:23 PM EDT
[#48]
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Further addressing your last statement - If a department advocates lying as a tool for extracting evidence by its officers on the street, would you negate anything the police officers say? This would, after all, make them institutional liars. Blue taqiyya! |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 7:15:46 PM EDT
[#49]
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EXPERT WITNESSES |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 7:36:29 PM EDT
[#50]
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Context is necessary, for all things. If the dude works in an area where construction is going on, no shit he's going to get covered in the stuff. Cotton, denim, polyester? They're like a fucking magnet for drywall dust. If he has little ziplock baggies filled with the shit, yeah, I can see how a reasonable person would suspect shenanigans. Drug dogs are still BS. It's a fuckin' DOG... An animal that licks its own ass and chases small, furry creatures. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I wasn't on that jury so I can't comment on the validity of those charges or subsequent convictions. But I think it is safe to say if he had no priors, the cops probably would have taken his word that is was just drywall dust - and at the very least, the judge wouldn't have denied him bail while they were waiting on the lab results. Am I wrong? I'll go on to say that having family members and close friends in LE as well as watching 100s of COPS episodes, and knowing drug addicts personally - I have learned that people who use or deal drugs are the biggest liars on the planet. And LE knows it. If the dude works in an area where construction is going on, no shit he's going to get covered in the stuff. Cotton, denim, polyester? They're like a fucking magnet for drywall dust. If he has little ziplock baggies filled with the shit, yeah, I can see how a reasonable person would suspect shenanigans. Drug dogs are still BS. It's a fuckin' DOG... An animal that licks its own ass and chases small, furry creatures. |
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