Damn, that's a double helping of griz!

What round for koala?

We really need a tacked bear thread.....

I've dealt with a lot of bears, mostly grizzly and browns, some blacks...With that said, the best weapon you can use is a shotgun with brenneke black magic slugs for a "stop it in its tracks bear gun"....Next to that a big African dangerous game cartridge like 505 Gibbs or a nitro express...Down from that is a quality hunting bullet(designed for penetration in a magnum rifle caliber suck as 375H&H, 460 Weatherby and such....Here is the problem with all of those choices..when you need it the most, it will most likely not be within arms reach..just a fact of life with any shotgun/rifle..they are just to big and to heavy to have on your person 24/7...

So that brings us to pistols and the much less powerful pistol cartridges...Sure you can carry a 500S&W, 454 casull, or any of the other hand cannon pistols...2 problems with that, First, they are both big and heavy, meaning just as with the rifle, they often get left off your person when needed most... Second and more important, to be charging bear proficient with any of them takes constant year round practice for most people..First, its very expensive to shoot one that much, second, very few people will dedicate themselves to it, and when that skill is needed most, most people aren't going to be able to make the shots they need to...

 Next down on the list is some of the middle weight calibers, 44mag, 41 mag, 357..definitely much easier to stay competent with, a bit cheaper to shoot, and not so heavy that a person can't make themselves wear it 24/7...So a good compromise to all out power and needed accuracy in a cartable package..The revolvers do have one drawback and that is capacity, most or 5 or 6 rounds, a few have more.. If you read thru the article on bear attacks, it is more common then most people think to need more than 5 or 6 shots to end a bear encounter. Meaning if you need 5 or 6 rounds, you are now carrying a worthless club with very very little chance of getting it reloaded in time to further defend yourself....Maybe a bit better with moon clips versus loose cartridges, but definitely something a person needs to consider and have a plan for...

And that brings up the large frame auto's, most commonly the Glock 20, delta elite in 10mm or a 9mm/45acp semi auto pistols.... These are light enough to carry, they have the round capacity plus can quickly be reloaded, not much issue carrying 24/7, but they are light on power...The big advantage is they are most likely very close to what an average pistol people carry everyday, so familiarity and close to equal recoil/accuracy/dexterity with very little practice needed more than they already do.. A big risk with an semi auto pistol is limp wristing or pushing the muzzle up against the animal and ending up with a misfire..luckily its easily trained around and should be easy to avoid in the woods..A further issue is getting adequate penetration, but most of the semi autos will do just fine with a quality hard cast lead load such as underwoods 200 grain 10mm hard cast load..Most people with very little practice can easily get off multiple shots in a split seconds with a semi auto they can shoot good..

 Reading the bear articles a person should come away with the idea that while you hope you can get "first shot stop a bear" with any weapon, many of the stories show great results with stopping the attack simply by getting multiple rounds on target, even if they are only minor wounds, they appear to often end the attack where one minor wound with a larger hand cannon may not end an attack..Nothing is going to be 100% every time, just not how the world works, but some careful, honest thought, practice and follow thru should allow most people to get thru a bear attack unscathed and healthy...whether that is with bear spray, a shotgun, DG rifle, or a pistol varient...I will say this from friends who have resorted to bear spray..many many times the spray is going to get you as much as it will the bear..Normally if the wind is from you to the bear, you will never see the bear let alone surprise him, hence why so many bear attacks are total surprises..the bear had no clue you were there until you were right on top of him...We carry spray, but I always get my firearm in hand first, then consider if bear spray is feasible(wind direction, bears attitude)....Every option has pro's and con's, up to you to decide which will work best for you...

https://www.citynews1130.com/2018/10/24/grizzly-bear-charges-man-bella-coola/

Pretty good video of a sow charging and a failure to stop with a shotgun at that link.  It's on YouTube if you search "Bella Coola Bear Shooting" but you have to sign in.  It didn't look like a very fun experience.

Years ago there was an article in one of the gun magazines of the day entitled broomhandle bears. Couple of guys would hunt bears each spring with 9mm.

Charging bear-forget it. I have shot a grizzly at less than 25 yards with a .375 H&H. After a well placed hit, it jumps up and runs into the thickest, nasty brush possible.

Would I prefer a Glock 17 to a middle finger? yes but it would be my last option.

There is a tremendous difference in between killing an unsuspecting animal and stopping a charge. Bears are not hard to kill. Stopping a charge is different dynamic.

It was birdshot

In his own words it was "good buckshot" but that doesn't really mean it was.  I mainly posted just to show a bear at full charge.

Underwood 147Gn Hard Cast

This

You're doing it wrong.
.45 is the bear caliber you seek.

.45 > 9mm

You **might** get **one** shot at an animal that can literally move through brush faster than Secretariat in the home stretch.

The wife and I are planning extensive travel next year in our travel trailer.  Many of our planned locations will be in bear areas, both black and grizzly.  
My plan is to take four weapons with me: .44 Magnum Rossi 92R lever action (tuning it now with Steve's Gunz parts and instruction), Ruger Redhawk .44 Magnum 4.2", AR-15 M4gery 14.5" P&W, and a Glock 19.5.  Ammunition choices: .44 Magnum HSM 305 grain hard cast bear loads for both carbine and revolver, AR-15: 77 grain IMI RazorCore Mod 1, Glock: HST 124 grain standard velocity and Buffalo Bore 147 grain Outdoorsman loads.
I figure I have both 2 legged and 4 legged critters covered with the above ammunition choices.  The BB Outdoorsman loads are reputed to be effective for bear.  I'll plan to carry the .44 Magnum(s) if I know we're going to be in mostly the woods and reloads for the G19 of the BB Outdoorsman loads if we're going to be in "mixed" areas.

Cost/benefit analysis.

What you gain in “power/penetration/energy etc...” you lose in accuracy, muzzle rise etc..

In handgun calibers, penetrating vitals of big animals is vital.

Hard cast 9mm would be just fine, permitted your can shoot where you need to under stress.

Is that from a different article? All I saw was birdshot. Either way I would have crapped my pants.

Loincloth prevents monkey ass.

 .218 Bee.

I'm a good shot, and never panic in live/death situations.

I feel comfortable with a 380, YMMV.

https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/defense-against-bears-with-pistols-97-success-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/

Attached File


FMJ only, penetration is the only thing that matters for bear.

My 380 gets plenty to reach vitals.

"Self defense" hollow point likely won't go deep enough.

If you can manage to hit the bear where you think you are aiming, yeah, it'll work.  Bears aren't bulletproof. But, they are moving.  So, landing shots on target under stress is hard.  All the handgun in the world isn't going do much to protect you from a mauling if you don't land the shots.

Bear spray is less sensitive to stress and fatigue, and more forgiving to misplaced aim.

Black bear?  Sure.  

i'm betting he's shooting black bear

.22 Long

Edit- I’m not recommending .22.  I am in the 9mm camp, because of light guns & training familiarity (better, faster hits are more likely).

I don't believe you.

you shoot a steer between the eyes with a 22, or heck a fair amount of cartridges, he's not going down.

For shooting steer, you draw an x mentally, from the horn base to the opposite eye.  Shoot at the cross, or actually ideally an inch or two left or right of that cross.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JF0tHCJGbh4

In a similar boat as you OP. I carry the buffalo bore in my 9mm when I'm out hunting/hiking as well. Here in this part of CO we only have black/brown bears though and it's rare to come across a large one. Hell, my dad and I have specifically been looking for one since September to fill our bear tag and still can't find one. As with you, I'd much rather have a 10mm on my hip, but the 9 is all I have so I'll make do. I feel comfortable saying that with well enough placed shots it'll take one down, or at least do enough damage to let it know not to fuck with me.

Also, as it's been said in this thread, I'm carrying it for protection against other people too. There's a lot of asshats amongst us. A few years ago we ran into a guy who was walking the trail, said he left his 4 wheeler keys in the ignition and when he came back, they were gone. A few days after that we saw some hippy guy walking around who was definitely out of place and didn't belong. Very suspicious he was an anti Hunter who chucked that guys keys. Not saying that's a shootable offense, but goes to show we're always surrounded by asshats, even in the woods.

9mm for bear:

Lots of bears have been killed by 9mm.  Why?  Because 9mm is a very common round, so it often ends up being THE GUN IN THE AREA when the bear is in need of being shot.  Maybe 401 Dillion Supermag is the best round for the job, but as it is so extremely rare, we don't have any data on it.

Lots of bears are killed by 9mm and by 22, but not all kills are equal.  You can drive up to an elephant and mag-dump your AK-47 into his lungs, drive off, and come back 4-6 hours later and find him dead.  Doesn't mean 7.62x39 is a great elephant cartridge.  Many of the bears killed by 22 have had it shot through the roof of the mouth, OR were peppered with multiple shots and it eventually died from some of them.

Note, also, not all bear are created equal...even within a species.  Brown bears tend to be significantly larger and more aggressive (especially grizzly) BUT many times it's a youngling who is tangling with a human (especially over food), or an especially emancipated female.

Not all bear attacks are created equal.  It the bear really set on killing/driving the human off?  Is the bear set on killing the human as food, or is the bear really interested in something else.  I recall a story of a pair of people fishing, going to grill some fish on the campfire.  They take a pair of fish from the lake shore, walk to the cabin, gut, and then start the fire.  Bear comes drawn by the smell.  Tangles with person 1, person 2 smacks the bear with the frying pan,  Bear lets go of person 1, and turns to attack person 2, but is distracted by the frying pan with bacon grease on the bottom. Starts licking the pan, which allows someone to get a gun.  Single shot drives the bear off, and is later found dead.  Thing is, initially the bear saw the people as just an mild annoyance to be driven off - like bees around honeycomb.  When the person actually shot the bear, serious pain was inflicted, and bear ran off.  Bear dying was more the luck.

So a lot of 'successes' by 9mm and even lesser calibers were successes when ANY gun would have worked, and probably a cattle prod would have worked too.  This doesn't mean an aggressive hungry bear seeing you the prey animal would be equally stopped by a 9mm or 22LR.

Just be careful because that .22 round will travel over a mile.

A 9x57 would work fine id think.

Maybe if you are shooting Pooh Bear.