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Link Posted: 12/4/2009 5:33:57 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:

Quoted:
Does it have a new warhead too? I thought the Sidewinders had some kind of promixity warhead that shot out a bunch of steel rods or something to destroy control surfaces on enemy aircraft?

AAMs have proximity-fused frag warheads... Think 'Big Grenade'....

Such a warhead, with proper guidance, would do quite well against surface targets such as light vehicles, troops in the open, and/or small boats....
 


continuous rod warhead
Link Posted: 12/4/2009 5:36:15 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
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Wikipedia reports the missile is 57 years young... Wow!
I bet if you compared the actual guts (not just the form factor) of the original with the -9X, you'd find practically nothing in common.

Kharn


they dont even look similar.  the fin styles have gone through several evolutionary changes, as well as positioning of components.
Link Posted: 12/4/2009 5:42:27 PM EDT
[#3]
cool. Need to make mini versions that lock onto people. A bomb opens up and a thousand little bastards the size of a pencil head for anything with body heat...... not sure where they came from

cool toy
Link Posted: 12/4/2009 5:43:45 PM EDT
[#4]
This is news?  

If there is enough of a heat signature, you can lock on.  Been that way for years.
Link Posted: 12/4/2009 10:40:31 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Ace combat shoot everything missiles ftw!



Now they need to find a way to attach 40 of em on there.  High Capacity Aircraft.

Link Posted: 12/5/2009 5:00:58 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ace combat shoot everything missiles ftw!



Now they need to find a way to attach 40 of em on there.  High Capacity Aircraft.



Look up the B-1R.  
Link Posted: 12/5/2009 5:08:41 AM EDT
[#7]
Link Posted: 12/5/2009 5:19:35 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have a friend from HS that works for Raytheon, I wonder if he was involved with this?

He never could talk about what he is up to there when we were hanging out several years ago.


Probably because it was either boring as hell, or it made him pissed off and raised his blood pressure to discuss his work.



Hmm, bitterness. I know it well.
Link Posted: 12/5/2009 5:27:10 AM EDT
[#9]
Link Posted: 12/5/2009 5:46:56 AM EDT
[#10]
Link Posted: 12/5/2009 5:57:29 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
While I'm not against the idea of a air to surface missile, using on a cigar boat seems rather overkill when the aircraft has a cannon that would do the job just fine...


There is no such thing as overkill!
There is only "Open Fire!" and "I'm reloading!"






Link Posted: 12/5/2009 6:03:01 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Wikipedia reports the missile is 57 years young... Wow!
The name is that old, but in reality the missile is different.
Link Posted: 12/5/2009 6:08:06 AM EDT
[#13]



Quoted:


Wikipedia reports the missile is 57 years young... Wow!


AIM-9's are the shit, I've handled many of them in my day.



 
Link Posted: 12/5/2009 6:11:36 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Few software tweak's here and there and presto!

Great news for all services....will probably help Raytheon sell more 9x's too considering how stiff competition is for IR air-to-air missiles..

Link

http://www.afwing.com/intro/f22/aim-9x.jpg

"During a 23 September Gulf of Mexico test, a US Air Force F-15C fired the air-to-surface AIM-9X and hit a speeding "cigar boat", a type commonly used by drug smugglers. "The missile went right through the boat," says White.

The F-15C test follows a previous shot by an F-16 at a similar target, which also scored a hit on the boat, he adds.

The project to develop the air-to-surface mode for the AIM-9X began with a request from the USAF in March 2007. Although the AIM-9X is primarily an air-to-air missile used in short-range engagements, USAF officials saw a need to make it multi-purpose.

"Maybe you're flying an F-15 that only has air-to-air weapons," says White. "The F-15C only carries air-to-air weapons. Well, now the pilot has an air-to-ground weapon."

The same concept also applies to fighters that can carry a mix of air and ground munitions. For example, if a Boeing F/A-18 is asked to strike a ground target after dropping all its bombs, the pilot could still use the AIM-9X, says White."





So, the Reapers in "The Day the Earth Stood Still" COULD have used SIdewinders against GORT?!?!?
Link Posted: 12/5/2009 6:19:29 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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Seriously? It's a cigar boat.

A shot from a decently placed .308 would disable it. The small explosive charge of any munition would definitely affect the weak composition of its frame.

I smell lobbyist here.


Seriously? You obviously haven't done much shooting at a boat. Inherently buoyant boats are tough. You're better off hitting the squishy thing in the boat than taking out the boat itself. The engine is relatively small. The steering linkages are smaller. Sinking it outright is tough (I've seen the effects of a Hellfire on a RHIB. The RHIB didn't sink even though it was missing about 1/3 of the boat.).

Of course, what do I know? My ship's CSSQT was HSMST intensive. We fired everything fro 5" to 20mm to SM-2s to Hellfires at similar targets, so what do I know?


OK OK, I was wrong. I have no problem admitting that.

I haven't blown up many boats in my day so I'm going on obviously amateur observations.

I do wonder, why a cigar boat? What does that achieve besides drug interdiction and a possible recon unit (like Iran)?

If they tested it on a semi-armored unit, ground or otherwise, and scored a significant hit...I'd be more impressed.

Somebody here, possibly from an industry representing the AIM-9X, is pressing for further use. Consequently, they are trying to sell an item that doesn't fit it's intended use.

It's a legit argument. If you want to say otherwise, you're missing my point.  


No it's not a legit argument and I got your point. It's your point that isn't legit. (Sorry if that mushes your feelings.)

Let's say you're on a ship. You have defensive counter air onstation, but a group of small boats show up on radar driving 40+ knots at your ship. Now you can try to launch F/A-18s off the deck but that will take time. Or you can take the F/A-18s from your DCA station and vector them on top of the small boats, take out a few, buy yourself some time until F/A-18s loaded out properly arrive on station.

Or let's say you're a special forces group in an observation post on the ground. You decide not to shoot the sheepherder kid and he alerts the local militia. You hear the 2.5 ton trucks carrying a company of local militia enroute to your position. There are no CAS aircraft nearby, but there's a flight of F-15Cs returning from a DCA mission or a sweep and clear mission. You have the AWACs call in the F-15Cs and take out the trucks with the local militia on them.

This is a legit requirement. It is also the reason why the USAF is interested in a single missile that can do air-to-air, air-to-ground and anti-radiationa missions.



You know, I hate playing devil's advocate. I didnt mean to offend nor target anyone in particular (previous post). Apparently I just didnt' know enough about the system to make an accurate judgement. You taught me otherwise and I appreciate that.

Reading these posts, it sounds like this was an advancement. Good for R&D, good for the military.

Please don't 'jump to conclusions that I'm some tinfoil fanatic automatically jumping to conclusions that ring of military defense infrastructure conspiracy. I'm a big fan of R&D and support it fully to protect our troops here and abroad.

The language is just odd. Why a cigar boat? I can see some applications, but this seems a stretch for massive development to standard targets the US military might encounter.

I'm not trying to be a dick. I'm trying to ask legit questions. So please, with sugar on top, keep this in mind.


Cigar boats are small and FAST. If it can hit small and fast, bigger and slower might be even easier to hit.


Link Posted: 12/5/2009 6:27:04 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Seriously? It's a cigar boat.

A shot from a decently placed .308 would disable it. The small explosive charge of any munition would definitely affect the weak composition of its frame.

I smell lobbyist here.


Yeah!  Stupid pilots should just open the canopy and engage with one round from a FAL.  What are people thinking with this silly "fire and forget" technology that helps aircraft stay aloft (and their pilots alive?)
Link Posted: 12/5/2009 6:33:35 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
This is news?  

If there is enough of a heat signature, you can lock on.  Been that way for years.


Sounds like they are going for being able to lock onto lower, more indistinct heat signatures.

Link Posted: 12/5/2009 6:37:21 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ace combat shoot everything missiles ftw!



Now they need to find a way to attach 40 of em on there.  High Capacity Aircraft.



Look up the B-1R.  


Awesome. Glad to see there is finally a plan to actually use the external hardpoints. Can you imagine a multi-role aircraft with like DOZENS of Sidewinders, plus a decent internal/external bomb load?
Link Posted: 12/5/2009 6:40:48 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Quoted:
cool. Need to make mini versions that lock onto people. A bomb opens up and a thousand little bastards the size of a pencil head for anything with body heat...... not sure where they came from

cool toy


My current project (Countermine System) is putting the idea starting on page 10 into production:

http://www.minwara.org/Meetings/2007_05/Presentations/TH1000MINWARA%20Conference%202007_Breaching%2010May07.pdf


I joined this project on Thursday to fix an engineering log jam:

MOP .    The survivors at the targets will know where this weapon came from.




AWESOME.

Link Posted: 12/5/2009 6:52:06 AM EDT
[#20]
Sounds like it's about to get more dangerous to be a pirate...
Link Posted: 12/5/2009 6:58:41 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
A Navy ( I think) F4 was returning to the carrier from a mission and saw a convoy of NVA trucks on the road. He got a good tone with a Sidewinder and blew up a truck. They painted a truck on the splitter plate rather than a red star. This was in the book Mig Alley.....And Kill Migs. Mig Alley was about the Korean War and And Kill Migs was about the Vietnam War.

A certain Navy F-4 Phantom pilot destroyed an NVA truck with an early model AIM-9 Sidewinder.

The pilot? Then Lieutenant Randy "the Duke" Cunningham! One of the first and few aces of the Viet Nam war.
BTW: the guy is in the "slammer" because of political corruption. He was a Calif legilstor.
Link Posted: 12/5/2009 7:04:09 AM EDT
[#22]
N/M
Link Posted: 12/5/2009 7:41:33 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Quoted:

Quoted:
Does it have a new warhead too? I thought the Sidewinders had some kind of promixity warhead that shot out a bunch of steel rods or something to destroy control surfaces on enemy aircraft?

AAMs have proximity-fused frag warheads... Think 'Big Grenade'....

Such a warhead, with proper guidance, would do quite well against surface targets such as light vehicles, troops in the open, and/or small boats....
 


continuous rod warhead


USA missiles don't use those any more.  Haven't done so for many years.  The warheads are now blast frag and many actually employ "smart" warhead technology and use an all around laser fuze and a focused warhead that adjusts to the geometry of the endgame to maximize the effect on the target.  Very effective.
Link Posted: 12/5/2009 7:43:03 AM EDT
[#24]
Interestingly (and sadly), that F-22A crash near Edwards AFB in March may be related to the AIM-9X's new air-to-ground capability.  If you keep an eye on the aviation blogs (two of the best are AW&ST's Ares and Flight International's DEW Line), you may be aware of the head scratching that accompanied the Washington Post's report that the March 25th crash occurred during a side-bay mounted weapon ground attack test.  The only weapon the F-22A is known to be able to mount in the side-bay is the Sidewinder.  Hence this apology at DEW Line to the WaPo's reporter:




My apologies to The Washington Post

by Stephen Trimble




December 4, 2009




R. Jeffery Smith's sources might have been correct. The F-22 that
crashed on March 25 could have been practicing an air-to-ground
mission, as Smith reported. My blog on August 1 scolding Smith for a seemingly obvious factual error might itself be wrong.
Of course, it wasn't public knowledge until yesterday that Raytheon has converted the AIM-9X into an air-to-ground weapon. So it seems I've uncovered my own error (darn it!).




When the accident investigation report
noted the F-22 crashed during a side weapons bay test, it seemed to
contradict Smith's report. He called it a ground attack test. The only
weapon that fits inside the F-22 side weapons bay is, of course, the
AIM-9X.
We now know that the AIM-9X can also be an air-to-ground weapon.
I
asked Raytheon earlier this week if the fatal F-22 flight test last
March involved the AIM-9X Block 2, which introduces the lock-on-after
launch and air-to-surface capabilities. The company said they cannot
make any comment about the nature of the F-22 flight test on that day.
If
Smith's article was indeed correct, it raises some interesting
possibilities for the F-22 as an air-to-ground fighter. I can't imagine
that the USAF would employ the F-22's immense firepower to stop a speed
boat. But an F-22 firing an air-to-ground version of the AIM-9X
presents other possibilities. One of the F-22's core missions is to
detect and destroy surface-to-air missile systems. Might the new AIM-9X
be useful against such targets, especially against mobile missile
launchers?
Perhaps yes, perhaps no.
But it's no longer
possible to rule out Smith's sources, who told him the F-22 was
conducting an air-to-ground weapons test on that day.
So mea culpa, Jeffrey. I owe you a free beer.





>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>





With respect to the Sidewinder being an almost 60-year old missile, the Sidewinder is the perfect analogy to the "100 year old axe" that has had the axe-head replaced about three times and the handle replaced about ten times.  The beauty of the Sidewinder's longevity is its modular design - which in itself came out of the necessity of it being developed in-house by the Naval Weapons Center in the late-1940s/early-1950s on a shoestring budget.  It used a propulsion unit based on off-the-shelf technology, with a sensor/guidance/warhead section attached to the top.  This simple arrangement allowed both sections of the missile to evolve rapidly to meet various threats and incorporate new technologies as they came on line.  The AIM-9X, particularly its propulsion and thrust vectoring capability, represents the furthest departure from the Sidewinder's traditional rolleron induced stability arrangement (which in itself was brilliant in its simplicity).






 
 
Link Posted: 12/5/2009 7:49:17 AM EDT
[#25]
AMERICA FUCK YEA!!!
Link Posted: 12/5/2009 8:10:46 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Quoted:
Does it have a new warhead too? I thought the Sidewinders had some kind of promixity warhead that shot out a bunch of steel rods or something to destroy control surfaces on enemy aircraft?

AAMs have proximity-fused frag warheads... Think 'Big Grenade'....

Such a warhead, with proper guidance, would do quite well against surface targets such as light vehicles, troops in the open, and/or small boats....
 


continuous rod warhead


USA missiles don't use those any more.  Haven't done so for many years.  The warheads are now blast frag and many actually employ "smart" warhead technology and use an all around laser fuze and a focused warhead that adjusts to the geometry of the endgame to maximize the effect on the target.  Very effective.


the older sidewinders used them, which is why I posted the link.
Link Posted: 12/5/2009 8:13:27 AM EDT
[#27]
Link Posted: 12/5/2009 9:36:35 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Sounds like it would also be good to arm a Reaper with. A2A and A2G in one package.


There was a Predator armed with a couple Stinger's that almost shot down a MiG-25 before OIF:

youtube link
Link Posted: 12/5/2009 1:14:46 PM EDT
[#29]




Quoted:



Quoted:



A Navy ( I think) F4 was returning to the carrier from a mission and saw a convoy of NVA trucks on the road. He got a good tone with a Sidewinder and blew up a truck. They painted a truck on the splitter plate rather than a red star. This was in the book Mig Alley.....And Kill Migs. Mig Alley was about the Korean War and And Kill Migs was about the Vietnam War.


A certain Navy F-4 Phantom pilot destroyed an NVA truck with an early model AIM-9 Sidewinder.



The pilot? Then Lieutenant Randy "the Duke" Cunningham! One of the first and few aces of the Viet Nam war.
BTW: the guy is in the "slammer" because of political corruption. He was a Calif legilstor.
Yes he was recently stupid but that doesn't take away from the fact that he is one of America's greatest fighter pilots.



Link Posted: 12/5/2009 2:23:29 PM EDT
[#30]
If the Air to air missile misses, is there some sort of internal automatic disarming of the warhead, or is it live all the way down?
Link Posted: 12/5/2009 2:26:34 PM EDT
[#31]



Quoted:



Quoted:

I have a friend from HS that works for Raytheon, I wonder if he was involved with this?



He never could talk about what he is up to there when we were hanging out several years ago.




Probably because it was either boring as hell, or it made him pissed off and raised his blood pressure to discuss his work.





The engineers I've known who've worked at Raytheon say it's the most soul sucking depressing place they've ever worked. They do not like to talk about it even if they are doing something cool.

 
Link Posted: 12/5/2009 2:37:21 PM EDT
[#32]

Link Posted: 12/5/2009 4:07:33 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
If the Air to air missile misses, is there some sort of internal automatic disarming of the warhead, or is it live all the way down?


That I don't completely know...I know the Rafael Python 4 & 5 have a self destruct sequence if it misses its target..
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