"Puzzle Pieces All Laid Out" - How ATF Has Plan To Classify Semi-Automatic Rifles As "Machine Guns"

Interesting points.
Go after the components to create a new class of felons.
Including Triggers, too.
I hope y'all contact you reps to not support the make up free Joker nominee.

they I guess we'll all have real MGs if the penalty is the same.

They've openly said any device that aids in making a gun fire faster should be regulated out of existence. It's something already being attempted at the state level. It's purposely ambiguous so things like an aftermarket trigger, muzzle, device, recoil buffer, spring set, etc could be included.

Un- clutch the pearls Nancy.

If everything is illegal then nothing is.

There's only a question of how bad do you want to keep them and how bad do they want to take them.

Well the plan is to become ungovernable under .gov/dem rule so whining to some (spit) gop congress-critter who cares shit-all about you and could do nothing about it if they did is a fool's errand.....As long as dems rule and control the alphabet agencies you will get what they want you get.

The question is if the ATF will want to piss-off the next bunch of gop slags that are in charge....Wash, rinse, repeat.

There is nothing I've seen from zerohedge that would convince me that it's anything but a distraction tool.

Attached File

If they re-interpret "readily convertible" the way they want to in the pending rules, this is a real possibility.

Second felony's free.

The closer we approach the collapse, the more desperate they grow to disarm the people.  An armed populace is incompatible with a police state.  Stalin, Hitler, Mao were all acutely aware of this.

And the more sanguine I get about them writing whatever rules they want.

Once a semi auto, always a semi auto.  Classifying semi auto as machine guns would mean all machine guns would be classified as semi auto. One pull one shot = semi auto; one oull multiple shots = semi auto.  Lets use the stupid again them.  Revolver = machine gun.  Uncle Joe's double barrel = machine gun.  If all things are machine guns then nothing is a machine gun.  Can we do that?

The ATF is an agency run amok.

Yeah I don't want to resort to a hammer, axe, or poker to defend myself with when they start taking people to camps.

Attached File

Fuck Chipman and the ATF.

Missed one.

Drill press goes brrrrrrrtttt

It's where we've been headed a long time. No use worrying about it.

Would they like to?

Probably.

Will they make 115million people felons overnight particularly when we’ve added more than 10million new gun owners in 18mo?

Hell no.

I don’t give a shit anymore.  Make me a felon and find out what happens.  

funny thing is ..... I don't care anymore .... I have multiple (fully legal) NFA items so they already know where I live.  And when I say I don't care I seriously mean I do not give a fuck

when everything is illegal ... nothing is

Remember how some of us warned all of you how Trumps bump stock ban would ultimately give the ATF the power to basically do whatever the fuck they wanted? We were just stupid NTers, its just a stupid toy, sorry your gal lost etc. etc. etc.

yeah we are the stupid ones.


PS make sure you all send the NRA some money, I'm sure they will eventually be around to fight.

I mean, if that’s what the government’s plan is, DIAS are not that complicated.

The OG source, OPeds are opinion pieces.
ZERO Hedge just posts articles the same way Drudge does, for the most part in a blog form.
What sources to gather info do you go to, CNN, FOX, CBS?
This is not a mainstream article, but needs to be.

oh wise one .... if only we had all voted for clinton instead .... if only we had listened to you the wisest of the wise

STFU ... the ATF has sucked a donkey dick since the day they were created

If this is the criteria then a 03 Springfield or K98 or revolver or a double shotgun would require a stamp as they all have features that make a gun fire faster. In fact they would argue that the cartridge makes a gun fire faster therefore only front suffers are legal.  

It's not about the guns, it's about us.   They're trying to get rid of us.

This is just a handy excuse and enabler all rolled into one; the details don't really matter.   They're not going to give up.   They don't care about law.

Zero Hedge

It's the obvious end-game, and I'm not sure I disagree with them, 99% of semi-autos probably fit the statutory definition of a machine gun.

I'd like to point out that the original 1934 NFA would have classified anything as holding 12 or more rounds as a Machine gun:

Mr. HILL. If the Colt automatic pistol could fire 12 times, would it be a machine gun under this definition in the bill?

MR. FREDERICK. Under the definition as printed in the bill?

MR. HILL. Yes.

FPNI

Gonna need a big boat.

It all hinges on the definition of “readily convertible”, which has been defined as the length of time it takes to convert a firearm to fire automatically.

Courts, naturally have different rulings on the meaning of the term, shown below; which was taken from the following website:

https://ryancleckner.com/what-does-readily-converted-mean

United States v. Woodlam, 527 F.2d 608 (6th Cir. 1976) held that it was 2~ minutes.

United States v. Smith, 477 F.2d 399 (8th Cir. 1973) held that it was a standard 8 hour working day in a machine shop.

United States v. Cook, 1993 WL 243823 (6th Cir. 1993) held that a disassembled weapon, which was missing a necessary part, was considered “readily restored” simply because the necessary part was available on the open market.  

United States v. TRW Rifle 7.62x51mm Caliber, One Model 14, 447 F.3d 686 (9th Cir. 2006) held that it was a two hour process which required simple tools and a stick welder.

United States v. one TRW Model M14, 7.62 Caliber Rifle from William K. Alverson, 441 F.3d 416 (6th Cir. 2006) held that it was the ability to manufacture the required parts in four to six hours with a properly equipped machine shop or in two to three hours by hand.

United States v. Seven Misc. Firearms, 503 F.Supp. 565 (D.D.C. 1980) held that a firearm is not considered “readily” restorable when conversion would require an expert gunsmith with tools costing up to $65,000, working between “four and perhaps in excess of thirty hours,” using essential parts that can not be found in this country and doing modifications that could damage or destroy the firearm and cause injury to the shooter upon firing.

Guess what's being disseminated now for the AR15 across the internet?

(insert image of 3D Printed AR15 auto sear as a coat hanger novelty)

Yep. 3D printed "AR15" Auto Sears (aka Coat Hangers) that "drop right in".

Under all of the cases listed above, the existence of 3D printed autosears renders just about every AR15 pattern rifle "readily convertible" to a machine gun, and thus regulatorily subject to the National Firearms Act, with no legislative action required.

Furthermore, many AR15 lower receivers have "milspec" fire control group cavities; making converting them to a machine gun rather simple through:

A.) The availability of M16 full auto trigger packs / sears at gun shows

B.) The availability of drill jigs to drill out the needed "third hole" at gunshows.

The fact that people RIGHT NOW are milling out 80% lowers and then converting them to a functional firearm via installing Semi-Auto Lower Parts Kits (LPK's) effectively also makes AR15's "readily convertible" into machine guns, since it doesn't take that much more effort to either mill out the fire control group cavity in non-milspec receivers (they have router jigs precisely for this purpose now) or drill that third hole.

Once AR15's are regulatorily determined to be "readily convertible" to Machine Guns by the BATFE, Biden can then, out of the generosity of his heart, write an executive order authorizing BATFE to offer a no questions asked "buyback" program to eliminate the legal liabilities of people who find themselves in possession of a machine gun as defined by ATF regulations.

If someone invented a pill you could take that would make your trigger finger respond faster to your brain commands, the ATF would label that pill as a "machine gun".

Your anger is directed the wrong way.  He wasn't referring to voting for Hillary, he was talking about all the people this site that kept saying "It's just bump stocks, they are stupid and don't matter.  Trump is doing a great job.".  While others of us were saying we need to stop that one action that Trump is doing.  Not stop Trump completely or wish for Hillary, that is a stupid conclusion to jump to.  

If it comes to that, you aren't going to win against them no matter what you're armed with.  It's not about winning.  It's about taking out as many of them as possible before they get you.

Maryland's Bump Fire Stock ban bill had this language originally:

“RAPID FIRE TRIGGER ACTIVATOR” MEANS ANY DEVICE, PART, OR COMBINATION OF DEVICES OR PARTS THAT IS DESIGNED AND FUNCTIONS TO ACCELERATE THE RATE OF FIRE OF A FIREARM BEYOND THE STANDARD RATE OF FIRE FOR FIREARMS THAT ARE NOT EQUIPPED WITH THAT DEVICE, PART, OR COMBINATION OF DEVICES OR PARTS ANY DEVICE, INCLUDING A REMOVABLE MANUAL OR POWER–DRIVEN ACTIVATING DEVICE, CONSTRUCTED SO THAT, WHEN INSTALLED IN OR ATTACHED TO A FIREARM:

(I) THE RATE AT WHICH THE TRIGGER IS ACTIVATED INCREASES; OR
(II) THE RATE OF FIRE INCREASES.

The following clause was struck out of the final bill apparently.

ANY DEVICE, PART, OR COMBINATION OF DEVICES OR PARTS THAT IS DESIGNED AND FUNCTIONS TO ACCELERATE THE RATE OF FIRE OF A FIREARM BEYOND THE STANDARD RATE OF FIRE FOR FIREARMS THAT ARE NOT EQUIPPED WITH THAT DEVICE, PART, OR COMBINATION OF DEVICES OR PARTS

so that the text is now

(1) “RAPID FIRE TRIGGER ACTIVATOR” MEANS ANY DEVICE, INCLUDING A REMOVABLE  MANUAL OR POWER–DRIVEN ACTIVATING DEVICE, CONSTRUCTED SO THAT, WHEN INSTALLED IN OR ATTACHED TO A FIREARM:

(I) THE RATE AT WHICH THE TRIGGER IS ACTIVATED INCREASES; OR
(II) THE RATE OF FIRE INCREASES

A judge noticed how restrictive this was:

https://www.ammoland.com/2018/09/maryland-gun-owners-out-to-dry-gun-oil-ban/#axzz5lIEIh0to

At the hearing, Judge Bredar remarked on the extreme vagueness of the State’s law as he demonstrated how GUN OIL being used to lubricate a BOLT-ACTION RIFLE to “increase” the “rate of fire” of the rifle because the action could be worked more efficiently, meaning the trigger could be manually activated faster than it could before using the GUN OIL.

By the way, while doing research for the next section; I noticed that ATF/Police personnel when they were asked by the media how long it took to empty a magazine, they used  Jerry Mikulek speeds.

If we assume someone can fire 1.5 shots a second and takes 3 seconds to change a magazine; then it breaks down as:

5 Rd Magazine: 47 RPM (Cyclic)
10 Rd Magazine: 62 RPM (Cyclic)
20 Rd Magazine: 73 RPM (Cyclic)
30 Rd Magazine: 78 RPM (Cyclic)
60 Rd Magazine: 83 RPM (Cyclic)
100 Rd Magazine: 86 RPM (Cyclic)

You can see that by simply existing, a 30 round magazine increases the cyclic rate of fire of an AR15 from the 62 RPM of a 10 round magazine to 78 RPM.

Therefore, it falls under the bump stock ban language used in Maryland:

FUNCTIONS TO ACCELERATE THE RATE OF FIRE OF A FIREARM BEYOND THE STANDARD RATE OF FIRE FOR FIREARMS THAT ARE NOT EQUIPPED WITH THAT DEVICE, PART, OR COMBINATION OF DEVICES OR PARTS

and is banned.

Let's go a little bit further on how dangerous this is legally from the "simulates a machine gun" language that the NRA supported.

Let's assume that your AR15 fires 700 RPM (or 12 shots a second) as long as the magazine holds out and the trigger is depressed.

Let's assume that the media/ATF/Biden play semantic games and pit:

Zero Training Shooter, 1.5 shots a second semi automatically, 3 seconds to change magazine

against

Competition Shooter, 3 shots a second semi automatically, 1.5 seconds to change magazine

Basically, they get an average untrained government worker with no experience in guns or automatic weapons, and put him behind a M4 Carbine with a giggle switch; and then test him against the best shooter from the JSOC units (MARSOC, SEALs, DELTA, etc) and using him with a 60 round drum as the baseline for semi auto weapons.

The numbers crank out as:

Automatic Rifle, Zero Training Shooter: 12 shots a second (720 RPM cyclic) , 3 seconds to change magazine.

10 rd magazine: 156 RPM Average
20 rd Magazine: 257 RPM average
30 rd Magazine: 327 RPM average
60 rd Drum: 450 RPM average

Competition shooter, 3 shots a second, 1.5 seconds to change magazine.

10 rd magazine: 124 RPM Average
20 rd Magazine: 146 RPM average
30 rd Magazine: 156 RPM average
60 rd Drum: 167 RPM average

You can see how there is a crossover if you limit the machine gun to 10~ round magazines; and put the best guy on the semi automatic; leading to situations where a semi automatic rifle with a so-called "Large Capacity Magazine" can put more bullets down range than a machine gun.

Thus, they get their "technically accurate" soundbite that gets disseminated on every network news show and all over Vox and The Trace about how 30 round magazines make semi autos equal in rate of fire to a machine gun!

Also, foregrips and AR-15 style barrel enclosures (A1 triangular, A2 ribbed circular, and Magpul whatever) could be argued as materially increasing the rate of fire of weapons; as they make it easier for an inexperienced shooter to grip a hot barrel from rapid fire without special gloves.

There's TONS of avenues of attack created by the catastrophic bumpstock re-regulation by fiat.

I'm no genius level intellect, and it took me only a few moments to come up with these attack modes -- there are bound to be more that the antigunners will come up with.

This is called "Red Teaming" where a group of players tries to poke holes in the plan of action -- it appears that the anti gunners do a lot of "Red Team" counter study of their own proposals; witness how much smoother and slicker they are now, compared to the 1994 AWB.

PS: When they use the Bump Stock attack mechanism to ban standard capacity magazines, they will lie to the general public and say that people can keep the magazines they have (grandfathering) as long as they register them.

What they won't say is that the magazines since they are ruled as "converting a semi auto to simulate near machine gun sustained rates of fire", they must be registered as destructive devices under the national firearms act, with each individual magazine being serialized.

They've already done this -- look at Washington state -- they said one thing in the two sentence description of I-1639 on the ballot; "ban semi automatic assault weapons", but when you looked at the 50 page text of the actual initiative of I-1639, it defined "semi automatic assault weapon" as ANY semi automatic, even a 10/22.

Happy dreams.

Biden regime arms Taliban with actual assault rifles, lmgs, and late gen NVDs.

Biden regime also plans to disarm the American public, because the greatest terror threats are armed Trumpists.

Makes total sense.

I should buy a drill press.catjpg

“There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.”

Semi’s are just range toys. I never bought one cause it was obvious this was going to happen.

AMIRITE to guys that say the same on B Stocks and Braces?

the article is full of clickbait statements with no supporting evidence, and conclusions that have no relation to the evidence.

that said, "readily convertible" has become a whole new thing these days.

a roll of PLA filament is readily convertible to just about anything including a machine gun receiver
1/2" ID pipe is readily convertible to a shotgun..

roll of PLA and a 1/2" ID pipe = constructive intent?  then we have achieved clown world.

Battered Wife Syndrome.

Many years ago, we had a Republican candidate for Governor that campaigned as pro gun/pro 2nd. How great would that be to replace cuomo (the 1st) with a pro gun Republican?

Sent money and campaigned for him and he won! Shortly after taking office, he wrote up an AWB, and with the help of fellow Republicans, got it passed and signed it.

Guess what those of us bitching were told? You'll never guess, so I'll tell you: "cuomo would have been worse". And what happened? Well, he got reelected of course, but without my vote, because I was an Iowa resident by then.

Trump could have signed an AWB, and it would be the same shit-"better than hillary" or "better than biden" would have been posted here all the time.

If I’m going to catch a felony I’m going to make it worth it.

There's 2 types of gun control- the kind by the Republicans that are excused/justified, and gun control by democrats that gets everyone raging.

They can eat shit,

The Australians have plenty of guns. Compliance with the mandatory buyback is estimated to have been less than 30%, and there are a huge number of legally owned guns purchased since then.

Complete rifles AND receivers, how many are out there? 50 million? 40 million? Less? More? Not gonna happen.

Ahh, isn't the AFT so cute.