I posted a thread about a week ago about compulsive gamblers , which got some interdasting responses.  Some responded that they really couldn't resist placing that next bet, even if it meant their families went hungry.  That, again, is thankfully a siren song I cannot hear.

Addiction in general is sort of a pet topic of mine, since my father died of cirrhosis.  However, I knew quite well that, while he did indeed have the symptoms of an alcoholic, it honestly was probably alot more that he had an absolutely wretched childhood.  He did, after all, completely block out all memories of his childhood before about age 15, which was roughly when he started to drink.

Yes, he could have worked the program(s).  And yes, he was, indeed, in AA, and at a dedicated (and very good) addiction recovery center.  But, A.) he said it was too painful to bring all that up again, and B.) he'd pretty much accomplished all he wanted to do in life, and really didn't have anything else left to live for.  I think that last one was what really killed him: he had no reason to keep getting up & fighting the good fight every day.  So far as I am concerned, he committed suicide; had it not been alcohol, it would have been overeating, or too much salt, or lack of exercise, or emphysema (heavy smoker), or overwork, or

Then, many refer to heroin as highly addictive; yet those who REALLY want to live & thrive have given up on "chasing the dragon".  So, it CAN be done, IF you want to.

Too, many refers to meth as the devils' drug, and that tweakers CANNOT get off it; yet I did have a buddy that did it recreationally, and didn't keep it up.  Granted, while bright, he wasn't a terribly mentally stable guy to begin with, and was on alot of psych drugs.  So, he might not be the best example, and might not have really been able to tell the difference anyway.

The hysterical anti-smoking Nazis also try to say cigarettes are as addictive as heroin; but many, many, many people, including myself and my sister, have quit smoking, and STAYED quit.  So, I certainly think that's a big, steaming pile of bool.

My exception to the whole "addictions are everywhere!!11!!11!! " hysteria is when they try to say the internet, or gaming, or food, or shopping, or whatnot are an addiction, which seems like pure, 200 proof booshwah, so far as I'm concerned.  So, what, EVERYTHING is an addiction now?  You have ZERO willpower of your own?  Yea, not so much.

So, what sayeth the hivemind?  Is addiction real?  Or, is it just a lack of willpower?  Or, is it just that addicts simply don't have any reason to keep fighting?

Something broken in people's reward circuits in their brain.

Now there is absolutely a personal element of choosing to succumb to your weaknesses or choosing to fight them.

Physical addiction exists. And so does mental addiction.

Addiction is a very broad spectrum. It is my opinion, however, that the majority of addiction is just mental. Shitty people that have no willpower.

Where is the option for "Yes, totally a lack of willpower"

This.

I've known classmates that hit drugs and never got off them

Other ones that partied with the same kids, clean today.

Think it has a lot to do with how your wired.

That said, quite a bit can be overcome with some mental toughness I think.

I understand it's not meth, but used to be a 2 can a day dipper. Been 5 years without it now. Lots of mental games to get myself to stop.

This thread will be entertaining to say the least.

ITT:  Those that understand the neurochemical basis of addiction and those that don't.

Passing thought:

The great doom of humanity is that even though free will is an illusion, we have to act and hold ourselves accountable for our actions as though we really do possess agency.  Otherwise we lose the only comfort life offers: the collectively accepted illusion that we do these things because we will it.

In my next newsletter I explain how religion inevitably develops in any species with the capacity for self termination as an evolutionary advantage providing a throttle on how often we exercise that capacity.

if the shits so fantastic, why isn't everyone an addict?

Care to comment on those "addicted" to opiates that got off it on their own?

Also ITT will be people who use addiction to excuse not having any self control.

You lost me at Yeet!

Your premise is stupid.
Addiction is in your head, whether it be re-wiring, chemical receptor changes, or mental weakness.

depending on the drug. Yes, something physical changes in the nervous system.
Benzos for example flood the body with neurotransmitter gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) and after prolonged usage the brain tells the body to increase glutamate the "hurry up" neurotransmitter.

continued usage causes the brain to literally self destroy the GABA receptors. This in turn causes anxiety to sky-rocket from the flooding of glutamate. Depending on the person's make up, recovery can be anywhere from 2 weeks to 7 years because the body has to re-build all of the GABA receptors that were damaged from the Benzos. the body has to have both of these neurotransmitters function all the time to make the body balanced.

My ex-wife took 5 years to semi recover, but other disorders appeared preventing full recovery.

Haut dam!  Eye gott ridd of anofher grammer Nazi!  C ya!

Let's not forget smart phones, social media and video games. We now have a generation hitting the aforementioned like a rat in a cage hitting the feeder bar for some crack.

It's real, whether drugs or not.

The underlying cause is basically that the part of your brain that deals with self-regulation is broken, and instead of using normal, healthy things to self-regulate, it uses something else.   It's handled by the part of the brain that handles things that are truly instrumental in keeping you alive, so addicts feel the need for their fix on the same level they feel the need to eat, drink, breathe, etc..

It can absolutely be overcome, but it takes a *huge* amount of effort over a long period of time, and that effort has to be directed in the right direction - training your brain to go back to normal, healthy regulation methods.

It’s both, and not because this is ARFCom.

It is a mental condition and therefore is in your head. This in no way implies that it’s not real.

It's both...

Everything we do has a chemical release related to it in our body. Addicts are chasing that, along with the other side effects of their addiction. Their willpower to stay away from their addictions may or may not overcome the physical effects of that addiction.

Go turn your stove on, let it get real hot, touch it. You pull back? That's physical, it's real, your body reacts without you having to think about it. However, if your willpower is strong enough you can hold your hand on there despite the pain.

If addiction is a disease and we have an opiate epidemic how come we are not quarantining these people.

It's absolutely both

An addicts brain was never right to begin with. It’s scientifically and genetically proven they have a dopamine deficiency and have all their lives. When they’re using they feel how normal people have felt their entire life. “Normal” dopamine production.

I’m an alchoholic, so I do understand.

Some people make the assumption that everyone is the same. Just because you can control something doesn't mean there aren't others who can't. There are plenty of theories of why that is but no proof for any of them.

Yes it is real.

Around a year and a half sober. Ain’t going back to that hell. Those that haven’t lived that daily tortuous hell will never understand.

I guess I can make them understand. Put a few knifes into your skull/brain, a few more into you chest and gut, then some into your knee and hand joints. Got those 30 knives all dug in deep and twisting?  Make sure the ones into base of skull and spine are good and deep, make sure they are twisting constantly. Make every nerve scream.

Ok.  Now all that pain will stop immediately if you have a drink. How’s your will power now?

I'm addicted to guns.

Physical addiction to opiates and alcohol are very real indeed. I've seen people die as a result of trying to self detox at home.

Gambling and other non substance addictions are completely psychological.

I think only a few things are addicting. When i worked corrections i think alcohol and maybe opiates were all they treated inmates for. Its amazing how when someone doesnt have something ie alcohol or cogs they are fine the whole time theyre locked up. Some will do six months and first thing they want is a cig and a beer. Personally id say i went this long im done.

There's a fair bit of evidence that some addicts' brains *were* right to begin with, but in childhood, factors including abuse can cause the changes I mentioned above.

Then again, there *are* folks with neurological defects causing issues affecting various neurotransmitters like dopamine, and that makes them much more likely to either become addicts, or to seek external factors (drugs, extreme sports, whatever) to get that sweet, sweet dopamine.  People with ADHD, for example, have very low levels of dopamine, and hence, addiction rates are higher in people with ADHD - but still, the majority of people with ADHD are *not* addicts, so it can't be assumed that the underlying lack of dopamine is the sole cause of addiction.

Gotta get that dopamine and adrenaline release. Does not matter what causes it, it can all become an addiction.

Life is all in your head. Does that make it not real? Shut off your various senses. Does that change what is real?

You keep using anecdotal experiences as some sort of proof that others can do what you did. Why do you think they matter when none of us are the same? We all have physiological and psychological differences. We all have different life experiences that frame our realities. Do you really think Shaquille O'neal is the same as Verne Troyer?

I used to be arrogant enough to look down on addicts. Until I experienced it myself.

Polling GDon this issue is like asking them for any other medical advice. lol

Wanna know is what’s weird?  I already said I’m an alchoholic. You know that adrenaline dump when you just avoided a deadly car crash?  That immediate fight or flight response, hyper aware, hyper sensitive?  Every muscle and nerve primed and fucking ready to fire...just send the signal boss.

That was my brain and body every minute of every day, only the booze tamed it. Full on adrenaline dump, 24x7. Sounds awesome, right!?  No, pure living hell.

Well all addiction is physical in the sense of chemical changes in the brain when doing activities that cause addiction, whether that be drugs or gambling or whatever. In the same sense it is all in your head. It is all in your head to overcome the addiction with willpower.

Meanwhile my alcoholism was nothing like that.

Alcoholics or addicts to bezos can and will die if they try to stop with will power. Is your will power strong enough to kill yourself?  That’s how strong it is.

With strong will power you can stop drinking any fluids or eating. Fight that urge to eat!  You can do it!

A lot of addiction biology relates to neurotransmitters like dopamine.

Your own body may release neurotransmitters in response to an activity ( running, skydiving, buying expensive shit you don’t need, shoplifting, etc)

Certain drugs and chemicals modulate the way neurotransmitter release, bind, deteriorate, or recycle.

There is a biological aspect to everything you do.

If you have ADHD and are prescribed amphetamines, you are already dependant on them.  Amphetamines are well known for their ability to increase dopamine production to the point anhedonia occurs when they are stopped.

It’s been my personal experience that there are two types of people who talk about addiction.

Those that don’t know a fucking thing about a fucking thing.

And former addicts who have developed such a hardened sense of self righteousness that they willingly omit relevant information as if it never existed.

I typically just stay quiet. But yes, it’s very real. It’s not an excuse for ANYTHING. But it’s real. That’s all I care to say.

My father went cold turkey in traction from morphine in the hospital.  He also completely quit tobacco when someone told him he was an addict.

That said, he was the most stubborn person I ever knew.

I think some folks are born to be addicted. Others can just will their way out of it.

Well this thread is a guaranteed shitshow.

I don't really buy into the notion that you can do/try something one time and be "addicted" to it to the point of not being able to resist.  Trying something and liking it and intentionally doing it over and over and over, can very well lead to a perceived mental/physical "need", which you could call addiction.

Meh. It’s real. Not trying to be self righteous. I saved my life. I try not to preach, but for anybody with a problem...I know that feels. I’m not better than anybody, but if I can help somebody struggling with addiction, especially alchohol, I will.

Psychological and physiological mechanisms can both be addictions.

I've managed to get stuck in indulgence when I was younger but always managed to walk away when it started looking bad.

I can be bad with gambling. But somehow a voice keeps me from making the situation worse if I'm doing really poor.

Roommate in college had a extremely addictive personality.  Everything from computer games, gambling, and pain killers.  World of Warcraft was picking up speed our Sophomore/Junior year and he got into that real bad, missing classes, not doing his work, staying up days straight.  He always played poker, but when he turned 21 he went straight to the Hardrock and discovered Blackjack.  I remember one night he brought home over $10k from winnings, they even comped him a room for the next time he wanted to go. I told him pay me rent for the rest of the year and he wouldn't have to worry about that anymore and it would still leave him with over $5k to blow on whatever he wanted.  He gave me rent for two months.  A week later he went back to the Casino, lost more than half of it, went the next night, rest was gone.  $10,000 hard cash for a college student was unheard of, he could of had the craziest year of his life, but he blew it in two nights.

Then the drugs got a hold of him.  He was from the Northeast where the painkillers and other pills weren't as big as they were in South Florida yet, or at least he hadn't discovered them yet.  I told him and several of my other friends that started dabbling in the shit that a Roxicet was not "A strong percocet" as the dealer selling the stuff told them.  It didn't take long before him and two of my other buddies went off the deep end.  That was their last semester at college and I haven't heard from any of them since.

Addiction comes in all forms.

Physical and physiological addiction (which are NOT the same thing) are definitely real, and are the result of chemical changes in the body that are scientifically verifiable.

Neither is an acceptable excuse for anything, however. It is a choice to slide into addiction, especially with stuff like hard narcotics, tobacco, and large amounts of alcohol, all of which every non-retarded person in the country knows is addictive.

It is also a choice to stay addicted. I know plenty of people who managed to escape addiction without medical help or programs, they just decided to stop and did so. None of those people had what I would describe as impressive will power, either.

I have very little sympathy for addicts of any sort. Their body, their choice, they can deal with the consequences of their foolishness.

Addiction exists.  It is a very real, and compelling force.

However, IMO, it can only be as strong as the willpower of the person addicted.

No one can blame addiction for action, the person lacks the willpower to overcome the addiction and change the action.

Well said.

And if their will power kills them?  Good job I guess. I would literally die if I stopped drinking. As in doctors said “you’ll die if you stop drinking”.