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Posted: 11/7/2021 1:26:48 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. Expense .. Why is it so hard to understand the time wrangling 3 types of firearms costs a lot of extra money. The goal is to minimize expense, time and complexity. A non blank firing functional exact replica costs nearly as much as the real thing. Double the cost and depending on the scene the Director wants a firearm capable of firing blanks is needed. 8mm blank only guns cost nearly as much as the real thing and there are not enough made in different types of firearms to cover everything a scene might call for. CGI post production costs more and it is after the fact. If something is off. That scene might be wasted. Expense.. The protocols work. Work just fine when they are not violated. Extremely rare event that took place. I spent some time with one of the principals in private equity that had some involvement in the Stembridge gun rental liquidation or ISS purchase of much of their inventory. They had millions in inventory. Including an extensive inventory of 8mm blank guns specifically made for the industry. He cringed every time I brought it up. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: We have a real gun on set right now. The prop master is going around showing everyone it’s empty. AD department is yelling out “cold weapon on set” How it’s supposed to happen… Is there some reason why a quality replica couldn't be used? Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. Expense .. Why is it so hard to understand the time wrangling 3 types of firearms costs a lot of extra money. The goal is to minimize expense, time and complexity. A non blank firing functional exact replica costs nearly as much as the real thing. Double the cost and depending on the scene the Director wants a firearm capable of firing blanks is needed. 8mm blank only guns cost nearly as much as the real thing and there are not enough made in different types of firearms to cover everything a scene might call for. CGI post production costs more and it is after the fact. If something is off. That scene might be wasted. Expense.. The protocols work. Work just fine when they are not violated. Extremely rare event that took place. I spent some time with one of the principals in private equity that had some involvement in the Stembridge gun rental liquidation or ISS purchase of much of their inventory. They had millions in inventory. Including an extensive inventory of 8mm blank guns specifically made for the industry. He cringed every time I brought it up. -Brandon lee was killed by a prop gun during the filming of the crow. -Mary Knowlton, a librarian, was "mistakenly struck with a live round" by police during a training session -Actor Jon-Erik Hexum accidentally shot himself on set of his TV show -actor Tom Carter's guns fired live rounds, hitting a fellow member of the group -actor Alec Baldwin fatally shot cinematographer Halyna Hutchins |
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Posted: 11/7/2021 1:28:21 AM EDT
[#2]
 Alec Baldwin Apparently AIMED AT CINEMATOGRAPHER Without Armorer in Church |
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Posted: 11/7/2021 9:29:24 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: -Brandon lee was killed by a prop gun during the filming of the crow. -Mary Knowlton, a librarian, was "mistakenly struck with a live round" by police during a training session -Actor Jon-Erik Hexum accidentally shot himself on set of his TV show -actor Tom Carter's guns fired live rounds, hitting a fellow member of the group -actor Alec Baldwin fatally shot cinematographer Halyna Hutchins Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: We have a real gun on set right now. The prop master is going around showing everyone it's empty. AD department is yelling out "cold weapon on set" How it's supposed to happen Is there some reason why a quality replica couldn't be used? Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. Expense .. Why is it so hard to understand the time wrangling 3 types of firearms costs a lot of extra money. The goal is to minimize expense, time and complexity. A non blank firing functional exact replica costs nearly as much as the real thing. Double the cost and depending on the scene the Director wants a firearm capable of firing blanks is needed. 8mm blank only guns cost nearly as much as the real thing and there are not enough made in different types of firearms to cover everything a scene might call for. CGI post production costs more and it is after the fact. If something is off. That scene might be wasted. Expense.. The protocols work. Work just fine when they are not violated. Extremely rare event that took place. I spent some time with one of the principals in private equity that had some involvement in the Stembridge gun rental liquidation or ISS purchase of much of their inventory. They had millions in inventory. Including an extensive inventory of 8mm blank guns specifically made for the industry. He cringed every time I brought it up. -Brandon lee was killed by a prop gun during the filming of the crow. -Mary Knowlton, a librarian, was "mistakenly struck with a live round" by police during a training session -Actor Jon-Erik Hexum accidentally shot himself on set of his TV show -actor Tom Carter's guns fired live rounds, hitting a fellow member of the group -actor Alec Baldwin fatally shot cinematographer Halyna Hutchins |
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Posted: 11/7/2021 9:35:18 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anyone buying the sabotage angle? |
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Posted: 11/7/2021 9:36:38 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The armorer is jobless and needs a place to "stay" https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/11/05/23/50124089-10170979-image-a-13_1636153950488.jpg /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/gtfo-183.gif |
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Posted: 11/7/2021 11:01:06 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Last I heard they had recovered 100 rounds of live ammo on the set Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Anyone buying the sabotage angle? 100? That's a large enough number that even if someone was being really sloppy with keeping track of inventory, they'd likely notice it. Sabotage would be more likely to involve a small number - a few rounds that could be concealed in a pocket to get them to where the ammo was stored, and be less likely that someone would notice some extras showing up. 100 sounds like a supply for single action plinking, in their free time. |
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Posted: 11/7/2021 1:49:20 PM EDT
[#7]
At $1 / round, I'd rather have a .22 for plinking.
The untold stores video said that there were two kinds of stars handling guns. Those that checked their weapons, and those that didn't. Baldwin was known as the second type. I'll believe it. But did the saboteur know that? I haven't seen a count of live ammo in what I've read. I could have missed it. |
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Posted: 11/7/2021 2:18:21 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At $1 / round, I'd rather have a .22 for plinking. The untold stores video said that there were two kinds of stars handling guns. Those that checked their weapons, and those that didn't. Baldwin was known as the second type. I'll believe it. But did the saboteur know that? I haven't seen a count of live ammo in what I've read. I could have missed it. A single live round on that set is gross stupidity. The only place I don’t get nervous around other people with guns are USPSA matches. A bunch of people who produce make believe plinking in the off hours with real guns to be used with blanks later and being fired at people? That’s nuclear stupidity. |
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Posted: 11/7/2021 2:37:58 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At $1 / round, I'd rather have a .22 for plinking. The untold stores video said that there were two kinds of stars handling guns. Those that checked their weapons, and those that didn't. Baldwin was known as the second type. I'll believe it. But did the saboteur know that? I haven't seen a count of live ammo in what I've read. I could have missed it. How about Alec was the saboteur and set the whole thing up so he could feel what it's like to kill someone and get away with it? Maybe he loaded it himself. |
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Posted: 11/7/2021 2:42:09 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: -Brandon lee was killed by a prop gun during the filming of the crow. -Mary Knowlton, a librarian, was "mistakenly struck with a live round" by police during a training session -Actor Jon-Erik Hexum accidentally shot himself on set of his TV show -actor Tom Carter's guns fired live rounds, hitting a fellow member of the group -actor Alec Baldwin fatally shot cinematographer Halyna Hutchins Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: We have a real gun on set right now. The prop master is going around showing everyone it’s empty. AD department is yelling out “cold weapon on set” How it’s supposed to happen… Is there some reason why a quality replica couldn't be used? Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. Expense .. Why is it so hard to understand the time wrangling 3 types of firearms costs a lot of extra money. The goal is to minimize expense, time and complexity. A non blank firing functional exact replica costs nearly as much as the real thing. Double the cost and depending on the scene the Director wants a firearm capable of firing blanks is needed. 8mm blank only guns cost nearly as much as the real thing and there are not enough made in different types of firearms to cover everything a scene might call for. CGI post production costs more and it is after the fact. If something is off. That scene might be wasted. Expense.. The protocols work. Work just fine when they are not violated. Extremely rare event that took place. I spent some time with one of the principals in private equity that had some involvement in the Stembridge gun rental liquidation or ISS purchase of much of their inventory. They had millions in inventory. Including an extensive inventory of 8mm blank guns specifically made for the industry. He cringed every time I brought it up. -Brandon lee was killed by a prop gun during the filming of the crow. -Mary Knowlton, a librarian, was "mistakenly struck with a live round" by police during a training session -Actor Jon-Erik Hexum accidentally shot himself on set of his TV show -actor Tom Carter's guns fired live rounds, hitting a fellow member of the group -actor Alec Baldwin fatally shot cinematographer Halyna Hutchins You just proved how incredibly rare those events are within the film industry. 4 incidents in 30+ years. Hundreds of thousands of hours of in your face gun play. Don’t violate the protocols when using functional firearms. |
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Posted: 11/7/2021 2:55:24 PM EDT
[#11]
Rust crew member is hospitalized and may lose his arm after he was bitten by venomous brown recluse spider while shutting down movie after Alec Baldwin shot dead cinematographer
A crew member winding down production of Rust faces losing his arm after being bitten by a venomous spider, just weeks after Alec Baldwin accidentally shot and killed the movie's cinematographer. Jason Miller, a lamp operator and pipe rigger, was working to wind down production of the film after cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was fatally shot by actor Alec Baldwin, when he was bitten by a brown recluse spider - a venomous spider that is native to North America. Within days, Sky News reports, Miller started experiencing severe symptoms, including necrosis of his arm, which occurs when cells die, and sepsis. A fundraising page set up to pay for his health care expenses says: 'He has been hospitalized and endured multiple surgeries each day as doctors do their best to stop the infection and try to save his arm from amputation. 'It will be a very long road to recovery for Jason if the medical team is able to save his arm. 'If under worse circumstances, he loses his arm, this is a life-changing and devastating event for Jason and his family.' That page now appears to have been taken down. A spokesperson for the Rust producers, including Alec Baldwin, told Sky News in a statement: 'We do not comment on individual members of the cast and crew's private matters.'  More |
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Posted: 11/7/2021 2:59:29 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your point being what? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: We have a real gun on set right now. The prop master is going around showing everyone it's empty. AD department is yelling out "cold weapon on set" How it's supposed to happen Is there some reason why a quality replica couldn't be used? Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. Expense .. Why is it so hard to understand the time wrangling 3 types of firearms costs a lot of extra money. The goal is to minimize expense, time and complexity. A non blank firing functional exact replica costs nearly as much as the real thing. Double the cost and depending on the scene the Director wants a firearm capable of firing blanks is needed. 8mm blank only guns cost nearly as much as the real thing and there are not enough made in different types of firearms to cover everything a scene might call for. CGI post production costs more and it is after the fact. If something is off. That scene might be wasted. Expense.. The protocols work. Work just fine when they are not violated. Extremely rare event that took place. I spent some time with one of the principals in private equity that had some involvement in the Stembridge gun rental liquidation or ISS purchase of much of their inventory. They had millions in inventory. Including an extensive inventory of 8mm blank guns specifically made for the industry. He cringed every time I brought it up. -Brandon lee was killed by a prop gun during the filming of the crow. -Mary Knowlton, a librarian, was "mistakenly struck with a live round" by police during a training session -Actor Jon-Erik Hexum accidentally shot himself on set of his TV show -actor Tom Carter's guns fired live rounds, hitting a fellow member of the group -actor Alec Baldwin fatally shot cinematographer Halyna Hutchins It's safer to be on a Hollywood set, than any random range? |
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Posted: 11/7/2021 3:37:13 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's safer to be on a Hollywood set, than any random range? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: We have a real gun on set right now. The prop master is going around showing everyone it's empty. AD department is yelling out "cold weapon on set" How it's supposed to happen Is there some reason why a quality replica couldn't be used? Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. Expense .. Why is it so hard to understand the time wrangling 3 types of firearms costs a lot of extra money. The goal is to minimize expense, time and complexity. A non blank firing functional exact replica costs nearly as much as the real thing. Double the cost and depending on the scene the Director wants a firearm capable of firing blanks is needed. 8mm blank only guns cost nearly as much as the real thing and there are not enough made in different types of firearms to cover everything a scene might call for. CGI post production costs more and it is after the fact. If something is off. That scene might be wasted. Expense.. The protocols work. Work just fine when they are not violated. Extremely rare event that took place. I spent some time with one of the principals in private equity that had some involvement in the Stembridge gun rental liquidation or ISS purchase of much of their inventory. They had millions in inventory. Including an extensive inventory of 8mm blank guns specifically made for the industry. He cringed every time I brought it up. -Brandon lee was killed by a prop gun during the filming of the crow. -Mary Knowlton, a librarian, was "mistakenly struck with a live round" by police during a training session -Actor Jon-Erik Hexum accidentally shot himself on set of his TV show -actor Tom Carter's guns fired live rounds, hitting a fellow member of the group -actor Alec Baldwin fatally shot cinematographer Halyna Hutchins It's safer to be on a Hollywood set, than any random range? Statistically speaking, yep. I wasn't certain though what point @Samueladams1776 felt he was making/proving so I figured I'd ask... |
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Posted: 11/7/2021 4:59:34 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Rust crew member is hospitalized and may lose his arm after he was bitten by venomous brown recluse spider while shutting down movie after Alec Baldwin shot dead cinematographer A crew member winding down production of Rust faces losing his arm after being bitten by a venomous spider, just weeks after Alec Baldwin accidentally shot and killed the movie's cinematographer. Jason Miller, a lamp operator and pipe rigger, was working to wind down production of the film after cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was fatally shot by actor Alec Baldwin, when he was bitten by a brown recluse spider - a venomous spider that is native to North America. Within days, Sky News reports, Miller started experiencing severe symptoms, including necrosis of his arm, which occurs when cells die, and sepsis. A fundraising page set up to pay for his health care expenses says: 'He has been hospitalized and endured multiple surgeries each day as doctors do their best to stop the infection and try to save his arm from amputation. 'It will be a very long road to recovery for Jason if the medical team is able to save his arm. 'If under worse circumstances, he loses his arm, this is a life-changing and devastating event for Jason and his family.' That page now appears to have been taken down. A spokesperson for the Rust producers, including Alec Baldwin, told Sky News in a statement: 'We do not comment on individual members of the cast and crew's private matters.' https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/11/07/14/50171143-10174687-image-a-3_1636297175309.jpg More I've lived in the area my whole life and I've never seen a single brown recluse. Not fucking one. Black windows on the other hand. I sqush probably 3 a week. |
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Posted: 11/7/2021 5:01:23 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Last I heard they had recovered 100 rounds of live ammo on the set If that's the case, sabotage is solidly ruled out. Any chance dumbass armeror or prop guy bought them thinking they were dummies or a supplier mislabeled? |
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Posted: 11/7/2021 5:06:56 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You just proved how incredibly rare those events are within the film industry. 4 incidents in 30+ years. Hundreds of thousands of hours of in your face gun play. Don’t violate the protocols when using functional firearms. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: We have a real gun on set right now. The prop master is going around showing everyone it’s empty. AD department is yelling out “cold weapon on set” How it’s supposed to happen… Is there some reason why a quality replica couldn't be used? Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. Expense .. Why is it so hard to understand the time wrangling 3 types of firearms costs a lot of extra money. The goal is to minimize expense, time and complexity. A non blank firing functional exact replica costs nearly as much as the real thing. Double the cost and depending on the scene the Director wants a firearm capable of firing blanks is needed. 8mm blank only guns cost nearly as much as the real thing and there are not enough made in different types of firearms to cover everything a scene might call for. CGI post production costs more and it is after the fact. If something is off. That scene might be wasted. Expense.. The protocols work. Work just fine when they are not violated. Extremely rare event that took place. I spent some time with one of the principals in private equity that had some involvement in the Stembridge gun rental liquidation or ISS purchase of much of their inventory. They had millions in inventory. Including an extensive inventory of 8mm blank guns specifically made for the industry. He cringed every time I brought it up. -Brandon lee was killed by a prop gun during the filming of the crow. -Mary Knowlton, a librarian, was "mistakenly struck with a live round" by police during a training session -Actor Jon-Erik Hexum accidentally shot himself on set of his TV show -actor Tom Carter's guns fired live rounds, hitting a fellow member of the group -actor Alec Baldwin fatally shot cinematographer Halyna Hutchins You just proved how incredibly rare those events are within the film industry. 4 incidents in 30+ years. Hundreds of thousands of hours of in your face gun play. Don’t violate the protocols when using functional firearms. There have only been five fatal accidents in part 121 US air carriers in the last decade. No need to make changes at this point since they are exceedingly rare. |
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Posted: 11/7/2021 5:25:18 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Last I heard they had recovered 100 rounds of live ammo on the set Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Anyone buying the sabotage angle? That is a huge fuck up. There should be no live rounds when making a movie. |
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Posted: 11/7/2021 5:32:13 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There have only been five fatal accidents in part 121 US air carriers in the last decade. No need to make changes at this point since they are exceedingly rare. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: We have a real gun on set right now. The prop master is going around showing everyone it’s empty. AD department is yelling out “cold weapon on set” How it’s supposed to happen… Is there some reason why a quality replica couldn't be used? Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. Expense .. Why is it so hard to understand the time wrangling 3 types of firearms costs a lot of extra money. The goal is to minimize expense, time and complexity. A non blank firing functional exact replica costs nearly as much as the real thing. Double the cost and depending on the scene the Director wants a firearm capable of firing blanks is needed. 8mm blank only guns cost nearly as much as the real thing and there are not enough made in different types of firearms to cover everything a scene might call for. CGI post production costs more and it is after the fact. If something is off. That scene might be wasted. Expense.. The protocols work. Work just fine when they are not violated. Extremely rare event that took place. I spent some time with one of the principals in private equity that had some involvement in the Stembridge gun rental liquidation or ISS purchase of much of their inventory. They had millions in inventory. Including an extensive inventory of 8mm blank guns specifically made for the industry. He cringed every time I brought it up. -Brandon lee was killed by a prop gun during the filming of the crow. -Mary Knowlton, a librarian, was "mistakenly struck with a live round" by police during a training session -Actor Jon-Erik Hexum accidentally shot himself on set of his TV show -actor Tom Carter's guns fired live rounds, hitting a fellow member of the group -actor Alec Baldwin fatally shot cinematographer Halyna Hutchins You just proved how incredibly rare those events are within the film industry. 4 incidents in 30+ years. Hundreds of thousands of hours of in your face gun play. Don’t violate the protocols when using functional firearms. There have only been five fatal accidents in part 121 US air carriers in the last decade. No need to make changes at this point since they are exceedingly rare. Failure of the existing process, a new failure mode or people not following the procedures already written in blood? |
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Posted: 11/7/2021 5:37:03 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Failure of the existing process, a new failure mode or people not following the procedures already written in blood? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: We have a real gun on set right now. The prop master is going around showing everyone it’s empty. AD department is yelling out “cold weapon on set” How it’s supposed to happen… Is there some reason why a quality replica couldn't be used? Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. Expense .. Why is it so hard to understand the time wrangling 3 types of firearms costs a lot of extra money. The goal is to minimize expense, time and complexity. A non blank firing functional exact replica costs nearly as much as the real thing. Double the cost and depending on the scene the Director wants a firearm capable of firing blanks is needed. 8mm blank only guns cost nearly as much as the real thing and there are not enough made in different types of firearms to cover everything a scene might call for. CGI post production costs more and it is after the fact. If something is off. That scene might be wasted. Expense.. The protocols work. Work just fine when they are not violated. Extremely rare event that took place. I spent some time with one of the principals in private equity that had some involvement in the Stembridge gun rental liquidation or ISS purchase of much of their inventory. They had millions in inventory. Including an extensive inventory of 8mm blank guns specifically made for the industry. He cringed every time I brought it up. -Brandon lee was killed by a prop gun during the filming of the crow. -Mary Knowlton, a librarian, was "mistakenly struck with a live round" by police during a training session -Actor Jon-Erik Hexum accidentally shot himself on set of his TV show -actor Tom Carter's guns fired live rounds, hitting a fellow member of the group -actor Alec Baldwin fatally shot cinematographer Halyna Hutchins You just proved how incredibly rare those events are within the film industry. 4 incidents in 30+ years. Hundreds of thousands of hours of in your face gun play. Don’t violate the protocols when using functional firearms. There have only been five fatal accidents in part 121 US air carriers in the last decade. No need to make changes at this point since they are exceedingly rare. Failure of the existing process, a new failure mode or people not following the procedures already written in blood? Doesn't matter. It's so infrequent. |
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Posted: 11/7/2021 5:49:28 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 100? That's a large enough number that even if someone was being really sloppy with keeping track of inventory, they'd likely notice it. Sabotage would be more likely to involve a small number - a few rounds that could be concealed in a pocket to get them to where the ammo was stored, and be less likely that someone would notice some extras showing up. 100 sounds like a supply for single action plinking, in their free time. No, the likelyhood is that they went into town with the gun to get ammo and all they could find were wadcutters meant for cowboy action shooting. Their "Armorer" probably didn't think they were bullets because they didn't have the "pointy thing that goes in". |
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Posted: 11/7/2021 6:00:01 PM EDT
[#21]
There have only been five fatal accidents in part 121 US air carriers in the last decade. No need to make changes at this point since they are exceedingly rare.[/quote
Exactly..unless information comes to light in which it is prudent to alter the protocols. The level of stupid that floats to the top in GD is amazing. Known protocols were violated and/or ignored by several people. Protocols that work just fine when adhered to. Don’t violate the protocols that have worked for decades. 5 fatal incidents in the airline industry in 10 years is an order of magnitude more deadly than firearms incidents in the film industry. Matter of fact..you conveniently left out the number of dead caused by those incidents. I would hazard a guess it pushes the likey hood someone dies from an airplane ride vs gunshot on a film set to a 5000/1. It is not equatable in any reasonable sense. |
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Posted: 11/7/2021 6:25:30 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, the likelyhood is that they went into town with the gun to get ammo and all they could find were wadcutters meant for cowboy action shooting. Their "Armorer" probably didn't think they were bullets because they didn't have the "pointy thing that goes in". Disagree.. Pretty sure they use crimped blanks so that does not happen. That way there are only 3 options. Empty casing, Crimped blank, live appearance inert w/bb inside. A heavy in feel, casing only in appearance round would/should set off visual mental alarms with the Armorer, Propmaster and 1st AD. As a non standard item on set. Anything other than an empty case, inert live in appearance round or crimped blank should be scrutinized. Any heavy, live in appearance round that does not have a bb in it is suspect. |
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Posted: 11/7/2021 6:34:42 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Disagree.. Pretty sure they use crimped blanks so that does not happen. That way there are only 3 options. Empty casing, Crimped blank, live appearance inert w/bb inside. A heavy in feel, casing only in appearance round would/should set off visual mental alarms with the Armorer, Propmaster and 1st AD. As a non standard item on set. Anything other than an empty case, inert live in appearance round or crimped blank should be scrutinized. Any heavy, live in appearance round that does not have a bb in it is suspect. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: No, the likelyhood is that they went into town with the gun to get ammo and all they could find were wadcutters meant for cowboy action shooting. Their "Armorer" probably didn't think they were bullets because they didn't have the "pointy thing that goes in". Disagree.. Pretty sure they use crimped blanks so that does not happen. That way there are only 3 options. Empty casing, Crimped blank, live appearance inert w/bb inside. A heavy in feel, casing only in appearance round would/should set off visual mental alarms with the Armorer, Propmaster and 1st AD. As a non standard item on set. Anything other than an empty case, inert live in appearance round or crimped blank should be scrutinized. Any heavy, live in appearance round that does not have a bb in it is suspect. I could see a wadcutter/reload getting thrown in there. I was confused as shit the first time I bought a cheap box of .38spl and the bullets were set back in the case. I never really shot revolvers growing up so I wasn't used to how they looked. I bet some dumbfuck on that set could have easily thought that was a "blank" or something.  |
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Posted: 11/7/2021 6:49:36 PM EDT
[#24]
I think this has already been stated "prop" short for property is any item or object used on stage or film set with is owned by the production company. A prop can be anything from a hat to a car and this case a fully functioning firearm. Too many people are equating prop gun to some kind of blank firer.
Rehearsing a scene with a revolver loaded with inert/dummy rounds not blanks where you are checking lighting and camera angles isn't unsafe and has been done a thousands times on set through out the years. Dummy rounds because we gun nerds will spot an empty cylinder in any close ups, like I spotted a flintlock with no flint in a film. You use professional armourers to ensure the right gun is loaded with inert rounds (cold) or blanks (hot) and there are live rounds anywhere near filming location. The talent doesn't recheck the gun anymore than you would recheck a pilots pre-flight checks, the pilot and the armour are the professionals and you trust them to do their job. However a probably less than competent armourer who was doubling as wardrobe/propmaster to save money and the mixing of live with inert rounds is where this ended with a fatal shooting |
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Posted: 11/7/2021 7:52:20 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The talent doesn't recheck the gun anymore than you would recheck a pilots pre-flight checks, the pilot and the armour are the professionals and you trust them to do their job. ? But I have occasionally rechecked the pilot's pre-flight checks. Your comparison is off. The pilot is the user of the equipment, just like the actor. Pilots are trained to do a pre-flight condition inspection of the aircraft, but it is a relatively bare bones inspection, compared to the periodic inspections done by the people who work as (and are trained as) aircraft inspectors. Even then, a crash investigation can hold the pilot responsible for the crash, if it was determined to have been caused by a problem that the pilot should have noticed during their pre-flight inspection. |
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Posted: 11/7/2021 9:02:00 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Doesn't matter. It's so infrequent. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: We have a real gun on set right now. The prop master is going around showing everyone it’s empty. AD department is yelling out “cold weapon on set” How it’s supposed to happen… Is there some reason why a quality replica couldn't be used? Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. Expense .. Why is it so hard to understand the time wrangling 3 types of firearms costs a lot of extra money. The goal is to minimize expense, time and complexity. A non blank firing functional exact replica costs nearly as much as the real thing. Double the cost and depending on the scene the Director wants a firearm capable of firing blanks is needed. 8mm blank only guns cost nearly as much as the real thing and there are not enough made in different types of firearms to cover everything a scene might call for. CGI post production costs more and it is after the fact. If something is off. That scene might be wasted. Expense.. The protocols work. Work just fine when they are not violated. Extremely rare event that took place. I spent some time with one of the principals in private equity that had some involvement in the Stembridge gun rental liquidation or ISS purchase of much of their inventory. They had millions in inventory. Including an extensive inventory of 8mm blank guns specifically made for the industry. He cringed every time I brought it up. -Brandon lee was killed by a prop gun during the filming of the crow. -Mary Knowlton, a librarian, was "mistakenly struck with a live round" by police during a training session -Actor Jon-Erik Hexum accidentally shot himself on set of his TV show -actor Tom Carter's guns fired live rounds, hitting a fellow member of the group -actor Alec Baldwin fatally shot cinematographer Halyna Hutchins You just proved how incredibly rare those events are within the film industry. 4 incidents in 30+ years. Hundreds of thousands of hours of in your face gun play. Don’t violate the protocols when using functional firearms. There have only been five fatal accidents in part 121 US air carriers in the last decade. No need to make changes at this point since they are exceedingly rare. Failure of the existing process, a new failure mode or people not following the procedures already written in blood? Doesn't matter. It's so infrequent. Of course it does, that's the point of the safety investigation. The irony is you just tried to do something that you have given Bohr_Adam pages of shit for, being intellectually dishonest. Leave it to the pros, you're terrible at it. 
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Posted: 11/7/2021 9:37:44 PM EDT
[#27]
I'm not going to go through this whole thread because FAB......
But has anyone posted the scene from Mission Impossible --Fallout with him? The bad guy takes a pistol away from AB which is unloaded and tries to shoot AB. AB says "that one is unloaded. But this one isn't". That should be Piece of Evidence #1. |
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Posted: 11/7/2021 9:45:17 PM EDT
[#28]
If you are pulling a trigger you have to know what will happen when the hammer falls. It's like blaming your boots because you were speeding. Elitist prick has been in enough movies to know to check any prop handed to him. He didn't shoot any actors he was mad because of having to retake the scene he pointed the pistol off screen at person that wanted to do the scene over. He is responsible for aiming and shooting the lady. The elitist actor will get away with murder because all leftist scum are intent on violence. Blame will be passed to protect the guilty negating the phrase and justice for all. Once again.
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Posted: 11/7/2021 11:39:21 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There have only been five fatal accidents in part 121 US air carriers in the last decade. No need to make changes at this point since they are exceedingly rare. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: We have a real gun on set right now. The prop master is going around showing everyone it's empty. AD department is yelling out "cold weapon on set" How it's supposed to happen Is there some reason why a quality replica couldn't be used? Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. Expense .. Why is it so hard to understand the time wrangling 3 types of firearms costs a lot of extra money. The goal is to minimize expense, time and complexity. A non blank firing functional exact replica costs nearly as much as the real thing. Double the cost and depending on the scene the Director wants a firearm capable of firing blanks is needed. 8mm blank only guns cost nearly as much as the real thing and there are not enough made in different types of firearms to cover everything a scene might call for. CGI post production costs more and it is after the fact. If something is off. That scene might be wasted. Expense.. The protocols work. Work just fine when they are not violated. Extremely rare event that took place. I spent some time with one of the principals in private equity that had some involvement in the Stembridge gun rental liquidation or ISS purchase of much of their inventory. They had millions in inventory. Including an extensive inventory of 8mm blank guns specifically made for the industry. He cringed every time I brought it up. -Brandon lee was killed by a prop gun during the filming of the crow. -Mary Knowlton, a librarian, was "mistakenly struck with a live round" by police during a training session -Actor Jon-Erik Hexum accidentally shot himself on set of his TV show -actor Tom Carter's guns fired live rounds, hitting a fellow member of the group -actor Alec Baldwin fatally shot cinematographer Halyna Hutchins You just proved how incredibly rare those events are within the film industry. 4 incidents in 30+ years. Hundreds of thousands of hours of in your face gun play. Don't violate the protocols when using functional firearms. There have only been five fatal accidents in part 121 US air carriers in the last decade. No need to make changes at this point since they are exceedingly rare. |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 12:28:20 AM EDT
[#30]
 Is Alec Baldwin REALLY At Fault? |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 11:00:21 AM EDT
[#31]
Alec Baldwin says police officers should be on sets to 'monitor weapon safety'. Next he'll be recommending more life boats for the Titanic.
https://www.insider.com/alec-baldwin-productions-using-guns-should-have-cop-on-set-2021-11 |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 11:21:01 AM EDT
[#32]
AB should check his f*cking weapon. They don't need to hire cops to do it.
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Posted: 11/8/2021 11:53:50 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Alec Baldwin says police officers should be on sets to 'monitor weapon safety'. Next he'll be recommending more life boats for the Titanic. https://www.insider.com/alec-baldwin-productions-using-guns-should-have-cop-on-set-2021-11 Police officers?? Most police officers I know, are terrible shots and don't know dick about any gun other than the one they are issued. Movie sets need to start hiring every old crusty range officer that has ever worked at a public range before. Those guys are over the top safty nazi's and don't give a shit about who you are. They'll call anyone out for being a jackass. |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 11:54:42 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Alec Baldwin says police officers should be on sets to 'monitor weapon safety'. Next he'll be recommending more life boats for the Titanic. https://www.insider.com/alec-baldwin-productions-using-guns-should-have-cop-on-set-2021-11 If protocols are followed, this tragedy would not happen. If even one person did his/her job by checking the firearm, this would be averted. So AB fucked up and now he wants cop to be armorer at movie set. I can see his angle: Hire cop to be armorer is cheaper than hire pro prop master or Hannah Gutierrez Reed.
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Posted: 11/8/2021 12:19:08 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Alec Baldwin says police officers should be on sets to 'monitor weapon safety'. Next he'll be recommending more life boats for the Titanic. https://www.insider.com/alec-baldwin-productions-using-guns-should-have-cop-on-set-2021-11 I don't think he feels any remorse and has himself convinced it's ALL someone else's fault. The government should protect people from people like him is what he is saying. |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 1:37:57 PM EDT
[#36]
Karma...
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Posted: 11/8/2021 1:48:32 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A single live round on that set is gross stupidity. The only place I don’t get nervous around other people with guns are USPSA matches. A bunch of people who produce make believe plinking in the off hours with real guns to be used with blanks later and being fired at people? That’s nuclear stupidity. There’s gunplay involving recreational shooting on location going back to the start of film. Stars in the 50’s frequently had shooting competitions and quick draw games on location to alleviate boredom and garner bragging rights and nobody got shot. Look up how many people Audie Murphy got challenged by on location some time. I’m betting the “armorer’s” father Thell Reed, performed live fire on location multiple times in his career without incident. If there’s nuclear stupidity now, it’s the people, guns are just inanimate objects. |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 8:37:51 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There’s gunplay involving recreational shooting on location going back to the start of film. Stars in the 50’s frequently had shooting competitions and quick draw games on location to alleviate boredom and garner bragging rights and nobody got shot. Look up how many people Audie Murphy got challenged by on location some time. I’m betting the “armorer’s” father Thell Reed, performed live fire on location multiple times in his career without incident. If there’s nuclear stupidity now, it’s the people, guns are just inanimate objects. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A single live round on that set is gross stupidity. The only place I don’t get nervous around other people with guns are USPSA matches. A bunch of people who produce make believe plinking in the off hours with real guns to be used with blanks later and being fired at people? That’s nuclear stupidity. There’s gunplay involving recreational shooting on location going back to the start of film. Stars in the 50’s frequently had shooting competitions and quick draw games on location to alleviate boredom and garner bragging rights and nobody got shot. Look up how many people Audie Murphy got challenged by on location some time. I’m betting the “armorer’s” father Thell Reed, performed live fire on location multiple times in his career without incident. If there’s nuclear stupidity now, it’s the people, guns are just inanimate objects. It's a question of being responsible. A responsible person would keep the live ammo, used in the 'plinking sessions' locked up in some location away from where the guns and movie ammo is kept on the set. A responsible person would carefully inspect the gun before loading it, and also confirm that the ammo being loaded into it, is the proper ammo needed for the scheduled use (NOT live/real ammo, and not blanks if they don't need blanks). A responsible person would then keep control of the gun (not leave it on a cart, unattended) until it is turned over for use, at which point they would show the condition of the gun. Another responsible person would then watch what they were being shown, and confirm that they had seen the condition of the gun. But on this particular movie set, it seems nobody was capable of doing any of that. They couldn't even be responsible enough to say 'hey, maybe we need to look at how we could do things a little more safely', after the earlier "misfires" demonstrated that they had problems. And now that somebody is dead, they are all pointing fingers, trying to avoid responsibility for the death. |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 8:59:24 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Alec Baldwin says police officers should be on sets to 'monitor weapon safety'. Next he'll be recommending more life boats for the Titanic. https://www.insider.com/alec-baldwin-productions-using-guns-should-have-cop-on-set-2021-11 Lol..that just shows how fucking out of touch he is with all things firearms related ! |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 9:03:25 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's a question of being responsible. A responsible person would keep the live ammo, used in the 'plinking sessions' locked up in some location away from where the guns and movie ammo is kept on the set. A responsible person would carefully inspect the gun before loading it, and also confirm that the ammo being loaded into it, is the proper ammo needed for the scheduled use (NOT live/real ammo, and not blanks if they don't need blanks). A responsible person would then keep control of the gun (not leave it on a cart, unattended) until it is turned over for use, at which point they would show the condition of the gun. Another responsible person would then watch what they were being shown, and confirm that they had seen the condition of the gun. But on this particular movie set, it seems nobody was capable of doing any of that. They couldn't even be responsible enough to say 'hey, maybe we need to look at how we could do things a little more safely', after the earlier "misfires" demonstrated that they had problems. And now that somebody is dead, they are all pointing fingers, trying to avoid responsibility for the death. It's very simple. Alec Baldwin picked up a loaded pistol, pointed it, shot, and killed an innocent person. His PR team is saying it wasn't his fault because of (blah, blah, blah...). No peasant would ever escape legal charges for shooting someone like that. |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 10:03:01 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Alec Baldwin's damage control team is doing an excellent job diverting blame. It's very simple. Alec Baldwin picked up a loaded pistol, pointed it, shot, and killed an innocent person. His PR team is saying it wasn't his fault because of (blah, blah, blah...). No peasant would ever escape legal charges for shooting someone like that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It's a question of being responsible. A responsible person would keep the live ammo, used in the 'plinking sessions' locked up in some location away from where the guns and movie ammo is kept on the set. A responsible person would carefully inspect the gun before loading it, and also confirm that the ammo being loaded into it, is the proper ammo needed for the scheduled use (NOT live/real ammo, and not blanks if they don't need blanks). A responsible person would then keep control of the gun (not leave it on a cart, unattended) until it is turned over for use, at which point they would show the condition of the gun. Another responsible person would then watch what they were being shown, and confirm that they had seen the condition of the gun. But on this particular movie set, it seems nobody was capable of doing any of that. They couldn't even be responsible enough to say 'hey, maybe we need to look at how we could do things a little more safely', after the earlier "misfires" demonstrated that they had problems. And now that somebody is dead, they are all pointing fingers, trying to avoid responsibility for the death. It's very simple. Alec Baldwin picked up a loaded pistol, pointed it, shot, and killed an innocent person. His PR team is saying it wasn't his fault because of (blah, blah, blah...). No peasant would ever escape legal charges for shooting someone like that. In the next breath, he'd probably tell of how experienced he is with firearms because of all the films he's been in that he dealt with firearms as props. |
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Posted: 11/9/2021 10:35:12 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think your going under the assumption that people like the armorer were experienced and qualified which they weren't. I could see a wadcutter/reload getting thrown in there. I was confused as shit the first time I bought a cheap box of .38spl and the bullets were set back in the case. I never really shot revolvers growing up so I wasn't used to how they looked. I bet some dumbfuck on that set could have easily thought that was a "blank" or something. https://loungecdn.luckygunner.com/lounge/media/wadcutter-bullets.jpg Show me a manufacturer that loads a wadcutter in .45 Colt CD |
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Posted: 11/9/2021 10:45:50 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Show me a manufacturer that loads a wadcutter in .45 Colt CD Underwood and Buffalo Bore. @Combat_Diver |
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Posted: 11/9/2021 11:40:53 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't think he feels any remorse and has himself convinced it's ALL someone else's fault. The government should protect people from people like him is what he is saying. My sentiments exactly. |
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Posted: 11/9/2021 2:07:48 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There’s gunplay involving recreational shooting on location going back to the start of film. Stars in the 50’s frequently had shooting competitions and quick draw games on location to alleviate boredom and garner bragging rights and nobody got shot. Look up how many people Audie Murphy got challenged by on location some time. I’m betting the “armorer’s” father Thell Reed, performed live fire on location multiple times in his career without incident. If there’s nuclear stupidity now, it’s the people, guns are just inanimate objects. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A single live round on that set is gross stupidity. The only place I don’t get nervous around other people with guns are USPSA matches. A bunch of people who produce make believe plinking in the off hours with real guns to be used with blanks later and being fired at people? That’s nuclear stupidity. There’s gunplay involving recreational shooting on location going back to the start of film. Stars in the 50’s frequently had shooting competitions and quick draw games on location to alleviate boredom and garner bragging rights and nobody got shot. Look up how many people Audie Murphy got challenged by on location some time. I’m betting the “armorer’s” father Thell Reed, performed live fire on location multiple times in his career without incident. If there’s nuclear stupidity now, it’s the people, guns are just inanimate objects. I can definitely see this being true. I would imagine a lot of people go out and enjoy shooting while they're not working. Once the story came out that the armorer, prop master, and AD all checked the gun once it was taken out of the safe and prior to being brought on set, I changed my mind and say that it doesn't matter who was "plinking" with that gun earlier in the day. Whatever happened with that gun prior to it being locked in the safe, is completely irrelevant. There were multiple professionals who were suppose to check that gun before it was brought on set. |
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Posted: 11/9/2021 3:58:11 PM EDT
[#46]
Looks like Alec "Barney" Baldwin is back in NYC. Maybe he'll hire James Comey as his defense attorney.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10182247/Alec-Baldwin-breaks-cover-returns-New-York-retreating-Vermont.html |
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Posted: 11/9/2021 5:23:38 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looks like Alec "Barney" Baldwin is back in NYC. Maybe he'll hire James Comey as his defense attorney. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10182247/Alec-Baldwin-breaks-cover-returns-New-York-retreating-Vermont.html Looks like he wants more on set prop rules/regulations he can just ignore. How does that help anything if you don't follow what's already in place? Rules are for thee but not for me. Isn't that the anti 2A way? |
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Posted: 11/9/2021 5:30:39 PM EDT
[#48]
Sounds like the executive producers (Baldwin, et al) went cheap on the safety side and it bit them in the ass. Hiring cops to be on set to make sure firearms are safe is a waste of money.
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Posted: 11/9/2021 9:11:12 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sounds like the executive producers (Baldwin, et al) went cheap on the safety side and it bit them in the ass. Hiring cops to be on set to make sure firearms are safe is a waste of money. They would just end up blaming the cop for every incident. |
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Posted: 11/10/2021 8:43:41 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Show me a manufacturer that loads a wadcutter in .45 Colt CD Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I think your going under the assumption that people like the armorer were experienced and qualified which they weren't. I could see a wadcutter/reload getting thrown in there. I was confused as shit the first time I bought a cheap box of .38spl and the bullets were set back in the case. I never really shot revolvers growing up so I wasn't used to how they looked. I bet some dumbfuck on that set could have easily thought that was a "blank" or something. https://loungecdn.luckygunner.com/lounge/media/wadcutter-bullets.jpg Show me a manufacturer that loads a wadcutter in .45 Colt CD https://www.underwoodammo.com/45-colt-long-colt-225-grain-hard-cast-wadcutter.html https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=269 https://americanhandgunner.com/gear/45-wadcutters-slow-and-steady-wins/ https://www.artfulbullet.com/index.php?threads/loading-full-wadcutters-in-the-45-colt.6518/ |
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