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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:10:18 AM EDT
[#1]
I agree, but you are going to get hammered
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:10:58 AM EDT
[#2]
If the founders had wanted only a subset of the population to vote, they should have written it into the Constitution.
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:12:32 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree, but you are going to get hammered I don't mind getting hammered for stating the truth. And the proof of my assertion is about as obvious as can be if you look at our country, currently. |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:13:24 AM EDT
[#4]
Take out women's suffrage and gun control shrivels up, the war on drugs and prohibition never happened.
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:13:52 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Our founders never intended voting to be a universal right. It was intended and written into the constitution to be an earned privilege. They knew a constituency with no skin in the game would destroy the country. They knew a voter base full of uneducated, uninformed people will vote for leaders who are unfit. Those with nothing to lose and no interest at stake would vote away rights, liberty, at the promise for a hand out. And here we are. The blue smoke is out of the box and there's no way to put it back in. And the number of voters with no skin in the game out number those who do, or soon will. Not really a fan of tyranny myself, but that's probably just because I am overly fond of liberty and representative government. |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:13:58 AM EDT
[#6]
I've been saying that for years.
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:14:31 AM EDT
[#7]
And yet, MILLIONS of Americans just view the Founding Fathers as outmoded old white guys. If Hillary wins, it is over and the decline will accelerate beyond our wildest expectations...........and, in the end, our country will be gone, the FSA will be in control and we well be ruled by a lying, scum bag, criminal tyrant. She will be free to do anything criminal she desires and her minions will carry out the will of Satan in ways you and I have yet to even imagine. It will be very, VERY SAD!! Our beloved country will have been destroyed, it's very foundation seen blowing away in the wind, never to be seen again.  |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:16:21 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If the founders had wanted only a subset of the population to vote, they should have written it into the Constitution. Last I checked, we wrote an amendment to give women the right to vote...hence...changing the constitution. |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:17:27 AM EDT
[#9]
Like I say in most of these threads...
Racist Democrats fucked up the literacy/competency test for voting concept. Entire naturalization exam (not just a few random questions) for everyone at 18 and every 10 years thereafter. No pass, no vote, no matter where you were born. |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:17:40 AM EDT
[#10]
Only propertied white males can vote then?
Regarding taxes, only propertied people should be able to vote on matters affecting property taxes. |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:17:52 AM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:18:21 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If the founders had wanted only a subset of the population to vote, they should have written it into the Constitution. It was in states constitutions. The mentality at the time was sovereign states. Who would think of letting idiots decide how we're governed? Then politicians figured out that uninformed voters of little means are easy votes to buy. |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:19:25 AM EDT
[#13]
... or the sun will rise in an easterly direction once again.
We survived zero, we can survive cancles. This lasting damage will be the supreme court. |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:19:25 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It was in states constitutions. The mentality at the time was sovereign states. Who would think of letting idiots decide how we're governed? Then politicians figured out that uninformed voters of little means are easy votes to buy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If the founders had wanted only a subset of the population to vote, they should have written it into the Constitution. It was in states constitutions. The mentality at the time was sovereign states. Who would think of letting idiots decide how we're governed? Then politicians figured out that uninformed voters of little means are easy votes to buy. Senators getting elected by the general population fucked a lot of shut up. |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:19:28 AM EDT
[#15]
I would hope we could all agree that if you don't contribute, you have no right to direct the course of the country.
Voting yourself a larger welfare check, to be paid by those who contribute, while shaming those very individuals paying your way, is lunacy. |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:19:49 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not really a fan of tyranny myself, but that's probably just because I am overly fond of liberty and representative government. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Our founders never intended voting to be a universal right. It was intended and written into the constitution to be an earned privilege. They knew a constituency with no skin in the game would destroy the country. They knew a voter base full of uneducated, uninformed people will vote for leaders who are unfit. Those with nothing to lose and no interest at stake would vote away rights, liberty, at the promise for a hand out. And here we are. The blue smoke is out of the box and there's no way to put it back in. And the number of voters with no skin in the game out number those who do, or soon will. Not really a fan of tyranny myself, but that's probably just because I am overly fond of liberty and representative government. You get as much representation as you earn. No stake. No say. |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:20:13 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Last I checked, we wrote an amendment to give women the right to vote...hence...changing the constitution. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If the founders had wanted only a subset of the population to vote, they should have written it into the Constitution. Last I checked, we wrote an amendment to give women the right to vote...hence...changing the constitution. There are millions of asshole men who are democrats also.........I blame the FSA mindset more than anything. People with no skin in the game having a voice on how things are run and how our time and money is spent are the problem. It can only end in disaster and that is what we are going to see occur if Hillary wins. |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:20:15 AM EDT
[#18]
Agreed.
I said this a dozen years ago here and damn near got run off the board. Accused of being "racist, sexist" etc..... My how the worm turns when people FINALLY FIGURE OUT HOW BADLY THEY HAVE BEEN FUCKED FOR SO LONG. Welcome to the Party Pals! |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:20:54 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Senators getting elected by the general population fucked a lot of shut up. This. Three months in 1913... Amendments 16 and 17. Fucked up the Republic way more than the 15th or 19th. |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:20:56 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It was in states constitutions. The mentality at the time was sovereign states. Who would think of letting idiots decide how we're governed? Then politicians figured out that uninformed voters of little means are easy votes to buy. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If the founders had wanted only a subset of the population to vote, they should have written it into the Constitution. It was in states constitutions. The mentality at the time was sovereign states. Who would think of letting idiots decide how we're governed? Then politicians figured out that uninformed voters of little means are easy votes to buy. |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:21:36 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Like I say in most of these threads... Racist Democrats fucked up the literacy/competency test for voting concept. Entire naturalization exam (not just a few random questions) for everyone at 18 and every 10 years thereafter. No pass, no vote, no matter where you were born. Even that minor restriction would have done wonders toward holding the line. |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:21:58 AM EDT
[#22]
well now that we've come to that conclusion, who shouldn't be allowed to vote?
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:22:48 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Even that minor restriction would have done wonders toward holding the line. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Like I say in most of these threads... Racist Democrats fucked up the literacy/competency test for voting concept. Entire naturalization exam (not just a few random questions) for everyone at 18 and every 10 years thereafter. No pass, no vote, no matter where you were born. Even that minor restriction would have done wonders toward holding the line. Indeed. And would have been morally defensible... unlike disenfranchising folks based on sex or ethnic background. 
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:22:53 AM EDT
[#24]
Since women were given the right to vote, the size (and reach) of government has increased with each generation.
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:23:21 AM EDT
[#25]
I'd say it more simply: Women's suffrage is the core issue. There are so many wonderful female conservatives that I hate saying it, but most female voters are immune to reason and logic. Everyone I know that can't be trusted to hold a civil political discussion is a woman. They make "feels" a core political ideology.
There is nothing that can be done obviously other than to try to breed the cuntiest women out of existence. |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:24:09 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Even that minor restriction would have done wonders toward holding the line. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Like I say in most of these threads... Racist Democrats fucked up the literacy/competency test for voting concept. Entire naturalization exam (not just a few random questions) for everyone at 18 and every 10 years thereafter. No pass, no vote, no matter where you were born. Even that minor restriction would have done wonders toward holding the line. Most of us here will probably be dust in the wind but in the future, with the way things are going, there will eventually be a collapse and subsequent revolution. When that happens I don't know but if Hillary wins, it will accelerate the process and also make it inevitable. |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:24:50 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It was in states constitutions. The mentality at the time was sovereign states. Who would think of letting idiots decide how we're governed? Then politicians figured out that uninformed voters of little means are easy votes to buy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If the founders had wanted only a subset of the population to vote, they should have written it into the Constitution. It was in states constitutions. The mentality at the time was sovereign states. Who would think of letting idiots decide how we're governed? Then politicians figured out that uninformed voters of little means are easy votes to buy. Correct. And the founders left a means to correct an injustice if the people of the several states decided to. If they had felt strongly about it they should have written it into Article I and defined who could vote. |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:25:19 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There are millions of asshole men who are democrats also.........I blame the FSA mindset more than anything. People with no skin in the game having a voice on how things are run and how our time and money is spent are the problem. It can only end in disaster and that is what we are going to see occur if Hillary wins. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If the founders had wanted only a subset of the population to vote, they should have written it into the Constitution. Last I checked, we wrote an amendment to give women the right to vote...hence...changing the constitution. People with no skin in the game having a voice on how things are run and how our time and money is spent are the problem. It can only end in disaster and that is what we are going to see occur if Hillary wins. Right... Yet men have very different voting patterns. Saying "yeah but not all of them" isn't exactly a useful statement. |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:25:21 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Senators getting elected by the general population fucked a lot of shut up. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If the founders had wanted only a subset of the population to vote, they should have written it into the Constitution. It was in states constitutions. The mentality at the time was sovereign states. Who would think of letting idiots decide how we're governed? Then politicians figured out that uninformed voters of little means are easy votes to buy. Senators getting elected by the general population fucked a lot of shut up. different symptom of the same disease. |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:26:24 AM EDT
[#30]
What kind of handouts did the govt do back then?
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:26:31 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Right... Yet men have very different voting patterns. Saying "yeah but not all of them" isn't exactly a useful statement. |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:27:07 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Indeed. And would have been morally defensible... unlike disenfranchising folks based on sex or ethnic background. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Like I say in most of these threads... Racist Democrats fucked up the literacy/competency test for voting concept. Entire naturalization exam (not just a few random questions) for everyone at 18 and every 10 years thereafter. No pass, no vote, no matter where you were born. Even that minor restriction would have done wonders toward holding the line. Indeed. And would have been morally defensible... unlike disenfranchising folks based on sex or ethnic background. If you notice, I said nothing about either in my op. 
Only the simple preponderance of a base principle of our DoI. No representation without taxation. |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:27:32 AM EDT
[#33]
I cannot disagree with the OP.
"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy.”? Elmer T Peterson |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:27:33 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Regarding taxes, only propertied people should be able to vote on matters affecting property taxes. This. Why should decisions about spending my hard earned money be made by people who have no stake, pay no tax or even care about where the money is coming from. |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:28:31 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd say it more simply: Women's suffrage is the core issue. There are so many wonderful female conservatives that I hate saying it, but most female voters are immune to reason and logic. Everyone I know that can't be trusted to hold a civil political discussion is a woman. They make "feels" a core political ideology. There is nothing that can be done obviously other than to try to breed the cuntiest women out of existence. My beloved wife has stated she'd give up her right to vote for a repeal of 19th. |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:29:06 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd say it more simply: Women's suffrage is the core issue... More simply it's women's rights. Women's rights allows valuable women--value in regard to those likely to raise tax paying offspring--to have careers. When valuable women have careers the birthrates of valuable Americans plummet. Meanwhile women of lesser value continue with unabated birthrates. Ancient Rome went the same way. |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:29:09 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If the founders had wanted only a subset of the population to vote, they should have written it into the Constitution. Anybody could vote, once they met the requirements, except for women lol. it seems all of those smart bros unanimously thought it was a bad idea, and so far they've been proven correct. |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:29:35 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
going to get hammered anti trump pro hillary rhetoric 
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:29:45 AM EDT
[#39]
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:30:06 AM EDT
[#40]
OP nailed it.
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:30:41 AM EDT
[#41]
The problem is land.
There is nowhere left for free people to escape to. All governments turn to tyranny in time. Free people are migrants, because they always get outnumbered with time. If there was a new country for us to conquer, most of us would have packed up to leave for it. Without that, there is just too much wax for the liberty candle to keep burning. |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:30:57 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Correct. And the founders left a means to correct an injustice if the people of the several states decided to. If they had felt strongly about it they should have written it into Article I and defined who could vote. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If the founders had wanted only a subset of the population to vote, they should have written it into the Constitution. It was in states constitutions. The mentality at the time was sovereign states. Who would think of letting idiots decide how we're governed? Then politicians figured out that uninformed voters of little means are easy votes to buy. Correct. And the founders left a means to correct an injustice if the people of the several states decided to. If they had felt strongly about it they should have written it into Article I and defined who could vote. They incorrectly assumed sense and intellect would carry on and didn't see the need to spell out things they thought so obvious. Make something foolproof and only fools will use it sort of thing imho. |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:32:07 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I cannot disagree with the OP. "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy.”? Elmer T Peterson Yup, and we have seen variations of that collapse throughout human history. As hard as the Founding Fathers tried to prevent that............and they did an excellent job, the time came when people just said "fuck the constitution, it is a living document to be molded in any way we see fit". |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:32:49 AM EDT
[#44]
The country was designed so that even if the people wanted it, and voted for it, it was not within the Federal governments power to grant it--THAT WAS THE DESIGN.
Trouble is, that requires people of honor and belief in the greatest country in the world, and today none of them are in government. Universal suffrage made it easier, but it did not create the problem. |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:32:56 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would hope we could all agree that if you don't contribute, you have no right to direct the course of the country. Voting yourself a larger welfare check, to be paid by those who contribute, while shaming those very individuals paying your way, is lunacy. Everyone (*many right-wingers) has seen the graphs for government spending pre/post female suffrage, but it doesn't hit home like the New Zealand data classifying lifetime tax burdens by gender. Suffice it to say that a no-contribution/skin/stake = no vote law would have such disparate impact as to be pragmatically indistinguishable from a gender-based law. |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:33:20 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP nailed it. Absolutely....100%. We are fucked because every Tom, Dick, and Harriet can vote. The biggest block of people who should not vote are those with no skin in the game...the FSA should not be allowed to vote. |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:33:22 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They incorrectly assumed sense and intellect would carry on... It does carry on, but once a woman is freed to pursue careers other than motherhood, the birthrate of intellectuals starts a steep decline. |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:33:56 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My beloved wife has stated she'd give up her right to vote for a repeal of 19th. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'd say it more simply: Women's suffrage is the core issue. There are so many wonderful female conservatives that I hate saying it, but most female voters are immune to reason and logic. Everyone I know that can't be trusted to hold a civil political discussion is a woman. They make "feels" a core political ideology. There is nothing that can be done obviously other than to try to breed the cuntiest women out of existence. My beloved wife has stated she'd give up her right to vote for a repeal of 19th. Mine too. |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:34:13 AM EDT
[#49]
Ever notice that the universal suffrage movement coincided with the rise of Bolsheviks?
One of the tenants of theirs in Russia was that everyone would be given a say, but only on the outside. The elites would still make the ultimate decisions but it was a way for the uniformed and feelings based people to imagine they have had some say. |
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Posted: 10/12/2016 11:34:17 AM EDT
[#50]
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