So, he was a human being with faults? Go figure.

Charles Nungesser was cooler.

Babe Ruth enters the chat.

Marxists, Socialists, Useful Idiots and corrupt politicians now hold my attention for their faults and wrong doings and I won't waste anymore time tearing down the guys from our past who advanced our nation forward when there are so many actively working on our country's demise today.

Would be nice to see a tv show where Charles Lindberg saves the world and destroys marvel characters.

Yep. In the 30's Hitler was quite well liked in lots of circles.

the Pilots of the famous "Flying Tigers" were all "civilians" (dischaged out of US Military Service so they could go fly for China without being "American Military Forces Pilots" while shooting down Japanese Aircraft.

And Eddie Rickenbacker, the leading scoring Ace of the US in World War I spent time in the Pacific in WWII.

In October 1942, US Secretary of War Stimson sent Rickenbacker on a tour of air bases in the Pacific Theater of Operations to review living conditions and operations. In addition, he was to deliver a secret message from the president to General Douglas MacArthur. After visiting several air and sea bases in Hawaii, Rickenbacker was provided with a B-17D Flying Fortress (AAF Ser. No. 40-3089) as transportation to the South Pacific. Due to faulty navigation equipment, the bomber strayed hundreds of miles off course while on its way to a refueling stop on Canton Island. When the airplane ran out of fuel, the pilot, Captain William T. Cherry Jr., was forced to ditch or water land the airplane in a remote part of the Pacific Ocean.

For 24 days, Rickenbacker, Army Captain Hans C. Adamson (his friend and business partner), and six crewmen drifted for thousands of miles at sea in life rafts. Adamson sustained serious injuries during the ditching. The other crewmen—John Bartek, Wiliam Cherry, John De Angelis, Alexander Kaczmarczyk, James Reynolds, and James Whittaker—were hurt to varying degrees. Their food supply ran out after three days. On the eighth day, a seagull landed on Rickenbacker's head. He captured it, and the bird became both a meal for the men and fishing bait. They survived on sporadic rainwater and small fish that they caught with their bare hands. While suffering from dehydration, Kaczmarczyk drank seawater; he died after two weeks adrift and was buried at sea.

The U.S. Army Air Forces and the U.S. Navy's patrol planes planned to abandon the search for the lost B-17 crewmen after just over two weeks, but Rickenbacker's wife convinced them to search for another week. However, the newspapers and radio reported that Rickenbacker was dead.

The surviving men split up. Cherry rowed off in the small raft and was rescued on day 23. Reynolds, De Angelis, and Whittaker found a small island that was close to an inhabited island where the natives were hosting an allied radio station. A U.S. Navy patrol OS2U-3 Kingfisher float-plane rescued the survivors on November 13, 1942, in the Ellice Island chain (now Tuvalu). All were suffering from exposure, sunburn, dehydration, and near starvation. He had lost 40 pounds (18 kg), but after a few days of rest, Rickenbacker completed his assignment and delivered his message to General MacArthur.

The failure in the airplane's navigation was blamed on an out-of-adjustment bubble octant that gave a systematic bias to all of its readings. The octant suffered a severe shock in a failed takeoff attempt in a different bomber. When the bomber's landing gear's brakes seized, the crew unknowingly moved the damaged bubble octant to Rickenbacker's plane. This ditching spurred the development of improved navigational instruments and also better survival gear for the air crewmen.  Rickenbacker's experience resulted in every Navy life raft being equipped with an emergency fishing kit.


Bigger_Hammer

Well, he was a pilot...

You would think it would be impossible, but you’d be wrong.

Most men are infallible. But modern historians look for things to make a name for themselves.
They try to find dirt or make it up. I think Lindbergh may have been in on his son’s kidnapping. But I hope I’m wrong.

Until about 3 minutes ago.

So he watched "The History Channel"?

So well that he got kicked out of the theater of operations.

When he flew the combat mission I mentioned he was a technical advisor for Chance Vought. He flew ’test flights’ that seemed to end up in combat areas. My guess is the Marines who flew with him had respect for him and happily turned a blind eye to the fact he was testing Japanese gun emplacements out of existence. It was a different time. The Army Air Corps prolly extended the same courtesy.

Also, my guess regarding the P-38 fuel savings is he learned a thing or two in his solo flight over the Atlantic about saving gas that wasn’t in a textbook yet.

Anything to teardown our past.

He was spreading his seed. The male of the species is not naturally monogamous. Then or now.

Wonder what his screen name would be?

The man definitely had balls enough to go around

Many men are great without being good.

That's more of a problem then multiple families.


That was a very common practice years ago.

Often they would meet at the funeral.

Playing devil’s advocate here


The problem with this theory is those inferior societies tend to destroy the superior ones, to the deterrent of all.

Remember how Rome thought it could outlast the barbarians?

Then remember how the high minded, reality detached “elites” (and I use that term very loosely here) “decided” that “Everyone can be a Roman” because they needed to undermine wages, increase the tax base, and grow the size of the army to ward off other barbarous tribes driven into the empire (The Visigoths, etc) as a means of war by other barbarians (The Huns)

Remember the fall of civilization, and massive amounts of suffering that followed?

I've got a friend a couple towns away whose grandfather did exactly that. He literally had two different families going on at the same time, complete with two sets of kids. I guess it was sort of hush-hush at the time, but he'd spend a day or two with one family and then "go to work" so he could spend the next few days with the other family.

That's kind of bizarre in my mind.

I've also heard the theory that he was actually the one responsible for his son's "kidnapping" and death.

Apparently he liked to play "pranks" on his wife (like some of the morons on YouTube do) and the theory is that one could have gone badly, resulting in his son's inadvertent and accidental death. To cover this up, he allowed some poor German immigrant to be put to death.

I don't really give that much credibility, but not everyone puts him on a pedestal.

My exact sentiments over Gaston Glock. Absolutely FUCKED his wife and children over. All for some younger pussy. May his ego and his soul find forgiveness for his sin with the Lord.

Maybe Lindbergh was in Germany gathering information about German military aviation, for benefit of the US, during the probable upcoming war.

He did learn a lot about German military aviation.  That information did help the Allies.  

The AAC commander of theather, in his book Gen Kenny Reports, didn't seem to have any doubts about his work on the P38.

As a civilian, he shouldn't have been shooting down Japanese aircraft, but I can understand him wanting to help out.
I finished a book a few months ago, 'The Race of Aces', and they mentioned his 'participation'.
If yo get a chance, read it.  It's a very good book.

IIRC he flew the Corsair and the P38. Apparently he noticed a lot of the guys were running the fuel mixture overly rich on their engines. He showed them how to lean out the fuel mixture to decrease fuel consumption and increase range, which was a big deal in the pacific.

Heroes will always be flawed and it's best to not delve too deeply into their personal lives.  Admire their accomplishments and leave it at that.

people cheat.  people like sex.

:shrug

David is one of my favorite Biblical characters and certainly had his worse faults.  For some reason men who get things done often trip up with women.  I also suspect that having a mistress was viewed a little differently in earlier society.

I just saw on wiki he received the Medal of Honor for the flight.  Never knew that.

They steam rolled Oppenheimer also by going down the “commie” trail with him.

I don’t understand Lindbergh’s motives but can understand why Oppenheimer was fucked up.

Skinned his humps.

Probably still is, preserved in ice.

I'm impressed

Wondering how something seemingly so basic as optimizing the fuel mixture was not taught to the pilots in training. I'm sure the engines also produced more power. We figured that out as teenagers tweaking carburetors on cars.

There was huge support in the German-American for the Nazi’s as they rebuilt Germany. They had not yet become an existential threat to Europe.

Just like tyranny in our country today, no one flipped a switch and, viola!—instant concentration camps.

Race of Aces addresses that—it was made out to be bigger than it was.

Lindbergh doesn’t come out looking good. He despised the American fighter pilots who worshipped him and considered them to be murderers (even though he himself was looking to shoot down Japanese illegally) and wanted to uncover American war crimes. This was all discovered in his writings years later.

If it was sisters I’d say it was a mutual agreement.

An "interesting" point of view. So, the Flying Tigers (or whatever they were) should not have been doing the same? I'm getting a "only police/military should have guns" vibe.

Would like to know more about the "kicked out of the PTO".

Don't feel bad OP. Check out Audie Murphy. The higher the pedestal, the further they fall.

In this thread, we get to see who is stupid enough to believe that Charles Lindberg supported Hitler and the Nazis. Has anyone said that Henry Ford supported the Nazis yet?

You can fool some of the people all of the time. Usually it’s because they want to be fooled.

So now you equate putting the needs and interests of your own country first with painting swastikas?
By your own link, the phrase "America First" predates the Nazi party by at least a whole generation. You might want to look up when Wilson was president vs when the Nazi party was founded.

And from Washington's farewell address: "Observe good faith and justice towards all nations; cultivate peace and harmony with all."
"In the execution of such a plan, nothing is more essential than that permanent, inveterate antipathies against particular nations, and passionate attachments for others, should be excluded; and that, in place of them, just and amicable feelings towards all should be cultivated. The nation which indulges towards another a habitual hatred or a habitual fondness is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to lead it astray from its duty and its interest. Antipathy in one nation against another disposes each more readily to offer insult and injury, to lay hold of slight causes of umbrage, and to be haughty and intractable, when accidental or trifling occasions of dispute occur. Hence, frequent collisions, obstinate, envenomed, and bloody contests. The nation, prompted by ill-will and resentment, sometimes impels to war the government, contrary to the best calculations of policy. The government sometimes participates in the national propensity, and adopts through passion what reason would reject; at other times it makes the animosity of the nation subservient to projects of hostility instigated by pride, ambition, and other sinister and pernicious motives. The peace often, sometimes perhaps the liberty, of nations, has been the victim.

So likewise, a passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter without adequate inducement or justification. It leads also to concessions to the favorite nation of privileges denied to others which is apt doubly to injure the nation making the concessions; by unnecessarily parting with what ought to have been retained, and by exciting jealousy, ill-will, and a disposition to retaliate, in the parties from whom equal privileges are withheld. And it gives to ambitious, corrupted, or deluded citizens (who devote themselves to the favorite nation), facility to betray or sacrifice the interests of their own country, without odium, sometimes even with popularity; gilding, with the appearances of a virtuous sense of obligation, a commendable deference for public opinion, or a laudable zeal for public good, the base or foolish compliances of ambition, corruption, or infatuation."

"The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible. So far as we have already formed engagements, let them be fulfilled with perfect good faith. Here let us stop. Europe has a set of primary interests which to us have none; or a very remote relation. Hence she must be engaged in frequent controversies, the causes of which are essentially foreign to our concerns. Hence, therefore, it must be unwise in us to implicate ourselves by artificial ties in the ordinary vicissitudes of her politics, or the ordinary combinations and collisions of her friendships or enmities.

Our detached and distant situation invites and enables us to pursue a different course. If we remain one people under an efficient government. the period is not far off when we may defy material injury from external annoyance; when we may take such an attitude as will cause the neutrality we may at any time resolve upon to be scrupulously respected; when belligerent nations, under the impossibility of making acquisitions upon us, will not lightly hazard the giving us provocation; when we may choose peace or war, as our interest, guided by justice, shall counsel.

Why forego the advantages of so peculiar a situation? Why quit our own to stand upon foreign ground? Why, by interweaving our destiny with that of any part of Europe, entangle our peace and prosperity in the toils of European ambition, rivalship, interest, humor or caprice?

It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world; so far, I mean, as we are now at liberty to do it; for let me not be understood as capable of patronizing infidelity to existing engagements. I hold the maxim no less applicable to public than to private affairs, that honesty is always the best policy. I repeat it, therefore, let those engagements be observed in their genuine sense. But, in my opinion, it is unnecessary and would be unwise to extend them.

Taking care always to keep ourselves by suitable establishments on a respectable defensive posture, we may safely trust to temporary alliances for extraordinary emergencies."

So yeah, he may not have coind teh exact phrase "America Frist" but her certainly put forth those tenants.

He flew P38s as a civilian I believe. If my memory is correct, he adjusted the manifold pressure to extend the P38’s range.

Did he score any kills?

Looks at Islamic riots, crime, and terrorism rampant in Europe and increasesing in the US and thinks, well, he kinda ahd a point.  Death of the west is a thing.

So far, they're getting it more right than the neolib status quo proponents, so yeah, enjoy your 60s cowboy/ww2 movies, the adults will be in the other room where new information can inform and change previous understandings of past events.

He actually said Russia was a threat, as quoted in this very thread a few posts above yours.