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Posted: 6/5/2022 9:38:27 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is spot on. Only to add NONE of these people represent the local population. Sure they all CLAIM that, but they don't..... and it's almost always all the same people showing up. And there is NOTHING that they like or approve of. Generally speaking if you ask someone what their neighbor should be allowed to do with their land the answer will be parking or open space. |
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Posted: 6/5/2022 9:39:21 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Typical developer double speak. Read what I said in my area developers get tax credits to build MF and must promise a certain % of those untis will be affordable. Obviously there is a mix of units but the affordable mix must match the mix in the complex. End of story. The people that show up to the meetings represent the community that is a median household income of roughly 100k. So no they're not lower income. The ones that want to change the community are the developers 99% of the time outsiders. It is a free market with rules established when the community was 1st built if you would like to change that buy us out. What you want is to buy property under one set if rules then change the rules to enrich yourself. Free markets have rules without that you have anarchy, see Houston where you can drop a bar in a residential neighborhood. Feel free to build your denser developments there NO.... I would like to be able to use property for what it was zoned for when I bought it.... Not have to try and catch a constantly changing asking for more money set of "rules" that seem to be made up as they go..... To try and extort as much as they can from every project. It's why I quit playing there BS game over 10 years ago. Then again, maybe the planing departments of your locals AO may not be a product of super liberal collage that is trying to push a agenda. |
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Posted: 6/5/2022 9:39:54 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are only 2 classes in a mountain town. The super rich, and the worker peons to support the rich. There is no middle class. Increasing the supply of homes is okay, but is the creation of affordable gov't housing okay? Do you ever get tired of everything being a conspiracy theory? |
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Posted: 6/5/2022 9:40:34 PM EDT
[#4]
not muddling through 8 pages, but in re: the title:
no. |
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Posted: 6/5/2022 9:43:57 PM EDT
[#5]
I have reviewed a few plans for a developer that does these high rise apartment buildings. First one is almost complete, there's going to be 800 units at $1200 a month. I think he's nuts, I think when it's complete the prices will be closer to $1750-$2000 a month.
The sad thing is these glorified projects are going up everywhere. I have not reviewed a condo project for ever, which really troubles me because people have to have a place to live but with apartments you get no equity. It's going to kill the little people. |
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Posted: 6/5/2022 9:44:42 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Generally speaking if you ask someone what their neighbor should be allowed to do with their land the answer will be parking or open space. Lol unless you want to put in a parking lot (I tried that, then fine, let's do a parking lot)..... then that's a NO GO. |
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Posted: 6/5/2022 9:45:17 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you ever get tired of everything being a conspiracy theory? Just Bigfoot, and he lives here in Colorado. |
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Posted: 6/5/2022 9:48:35 PM EDT
[#8]
On this subject, wasn't there a name for those Soviet version of the projects? I'm sure there was but I can't think of it.
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Posted: 6/5/2022 9:49:57 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have reviewed a few plans for a developer that does these high rise apartment buildings. First one is almost complete, there's going to be 800 units at $1200 a month. I think he's nuts, I think when it's complete the prices will be closer to $1750-$2000 a month. Quote HistoryQuoted: I have reviewed a few plans for a developer that does these high rise apartment buildings. First one is almost complete, there's going to be 800 units at $1200 a month. I think he's nuts, I think when it's complete the prices will be closer to $1750-$2000 a month. High rise buildings are expensive, the units would have to be super small to be that cheap... If you want apartments that people can afford the trick is to make them small and simple. High rise isn't simple. Quoted: The sad thing is these glorified projects are going up everywhere. I have not reviewed a condo project for ever, which really troubles me because people have to have a place to live but with apartments you get no equity. It's going to kill the little people. Condo liability laws are brutal and it raises the cost of insurance to unaffordable levels. They cost more to design, more to build, more to insure and if you screw something up you will go out of business. My real estate lawyer told me if I want to do condos she won't be involved. Or, in her words, "we aren't doing condos." |
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Posted: 6/5/2022 10:02:28 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally...Posted...By...Baddy: Sounds...like...they...know...what...the...problem...is. So...they're...going...to...build...more...apartments,...only...for...the...same...investors...swoop...in...and...turn...them...into...AirBnbs? AirBnbs...are...a...plague...in...lots...of...places....We...have...areas...down...here...where...hundreds...of...properties...have...been...scooped...up...and...turned...into...short-term...rentals....Results...are...the...same...complaints...about...skyrocketing...costs...for...the...working-class.... I...don't...know...the...solution...as..."muh...free...country",...besides...stricter...zoning....I...personally...know...folks...who...settled...in...nice...neighborhoods...only...to...have...the...house...next...door...turned...into...a...kind...of...hotel/party...house. Airbnb...has...a...way...of...turning...normally...nice...neighborhoods...and...condos...into...fleebag...motels. |
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Posted: 6/5/2022 10:19:21 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: High rise buildings are expensive, the units would have to be super small to be that cheap... If you want apartments that people can afford the trick is to make them small and simple. High rise isn't simple. Condo liability laws are brutal and it raises the cost of insurance to unaffordable levels. They cost more to design, more to build, more to insure and if you screw something up you will go out of business. My real estate lawyer told me if I want to do condos she won't be involved. Or, in her words, "we aren't doing condos." That's weird because town homes aren't that much different and they are still going up. |
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Posted: 6/5/2022 10:23:06 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's weird because town homes aren't that much different and they are still going up. They don't fall under condo liability laws and the HOA fees are much smaller. The last financial analysis I saw on it was from Los Angeles in 2015 or so, the difference in sales price between a condo and a townhouse was $70,000 but the difference in construction insurance was $25,000. And that's not getting into elevators and underground parking. A $95,000 spread is HUGE in this business. |
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Posted: 6/5/2022 10:40:39 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They don't fall under condo liability laws and the HOA fees are much smaller. The last financial analysis I saw on it was from Los Angeles in 2015 or so, the difference in sales price between a condo and a townhouse was $70,000 but the difference in construction insurance was $25,000. And that's not getting into elevators and underground parking. A $95,000 spread is HUGE in this business. That doesn't make sense to me, The structure, grounds, subsurface utilities, snow removal, trash removal, utility bills among other things are still the responsibility of HOA, the only difference between a condo and a town home is that you own the airspace between the common walls in a town home or the airspace within the unit in a condo. |
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Posted: 6/5/2022 10:44:25 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: here in my fair city, the local Commissars are pushing for a property tax increase in the fall. The money is to be used to back a $50 million bond issue that will pay for 'affordable housing' in the city. I see it as just another wealth transfer from the producers to the recipient class. Where is this? Affordable housing my eye. Wealth transfer or FSA is exactly what it is. More taxes to allow more crime and the city to cash in on fed funds. |
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Posted: 6/5/2022 10:48:19 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That doesn't make sense to me, The structure, grounds, subsurface utilities, snow removal, trash removal, utility bills among other things are still the responsibility of HOA, the only difference between a condo and a town home is that you own the airspace between the common walls in a town home or the airspace within the unit in a condo. The first three are cheap, I don't know anything about snow removal, trash is probably individual for townhouses, and both will be separately metered in new construction but a townhouse won't have a common area meter. The big difference is that in a condo you own the drywall in, but the structure itself belongs to the HOA, while in a townhouse the structure belongs to the owner. So if you need a roof on a townhouse the owner pays at that time, not through HOA reserves. |
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Posted: 6/6/2022 1:55:46 AM EDT
[#16]
Why not just make a New Orleans style superdome? That worked for many families during Katrina.
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Posted: 6/6/2022 2:03:09 AM EDT
[#17]
I'd love to see where all the developers in this thread live.
The ones around here tend to be some of the most hypocritical people you'll ever encounter, spending all day lobbying to be allowed to build shitty housing for shitty people in everyone's backyard but their own. One of the biggest "affordable housing" mavens in the city lives outside of town on gated acreage in a private community for the very wealthy. |
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Posted: 6/6/2022 2:07:10 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The first three are cheap, I don't know anything about snow removal, trash is probably individual for townhouses, and both will be separately metered in new construction but a townhouse won't have a common area meter. The big difference is that in a condo you own the drywall in, but the structure itself belongs to the HOA, while in a townhouse the structure belongs to the owner. So if you need a roof on a townhouse the owner pays at that time, not through HOA reserves. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That doesn't make sense to me, The structure, grounds, subsurface utilities, snow removal, trash removal, utility bills among other things are still the responsibility of HOA, the only difference between a condo and a town home is that you own the airspace between the common walls in a town home or the airspace within the unit in a condo. The first three are cheap, I don't know anything about snow removal, trash is probably individual for townhouses, and both will be separately metered in new construction but a townhouse won't have a common area meter. The big difference is that in a condo you own the drywall in, but the structure itself belongs to the HOA, while in a townhouse the structure belongs to the owner. So if you need a roof on a townhouse the owner pays at that time, not through HOA reserves. I saw an ad for a townhouse earlier in which they said they tore up all the flooring because they thought cats had pissed on it or something. Then they determined that the smell was coming from the adjacent unit. There was no mention of resolution. You'd think the HOA (which the place had) would do something about a hoarder stinking up the whole place.  That kind of shit is why I'd live in a trailer on my own land before ever living attached to anyone else. |
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Posted: 6/6/2022 2:08:13 AM EDT
[#19]
You know townhouses are structurally separate, right?
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Posted: 6/6/2022 2:19:15 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You know townhouses are structurally separate, right? I'm not an architect, but a quick search suggests that they often do share common exterior walls. 
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Posted: 6/6/2022 2:23:27 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not an architect, but a quick search suggests that they often do share common exterior walls. The walls can touch but they have to have their own walls structurally. |
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Posted: 6/6/2022 2:32:46 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The walls can touch but they have to have their own walls structurally. Yes. Two sets of staggered studs running parallel to each other with a gap in between. I was an HOA President for a couple of years, and with our board, we managed 400+ townhouses. It's like babysitting hundreds of entitled screaming babies. 
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Posted: 6/6/2022 2:37:25 AM EDT
[#23]
We satisfied our love of a single family home by producing our own for a fraction of the cost of buying one from someone else.
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Posted: 6/6/2022 10:11:09 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The vast majority of apartments are not subsidized in any way. It's like 75% market to 25% LIHTC. I'm actually surprised that it is that high. I've had the opposite experience, the city removed a significant amount of our development rights and we were able to preserve some but not all of them, which is considered a success. If you are concerned about people enriching themselves then look at existing land owners that want to increase their property values. Houston is more bar friendly than apartment friendly. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Typical developer double speak. Read what I said in my area developers get tax credits to build MF and must promise a certain % of those untis will be affordable. Obviously there is a mix of units but the affordable mix must match the mix in the complex. End of story. The vast majority of apartments are not subsidized in any way. It's like 75% market to 25% LIHTC. I'm actually surprised that it is that high. Quoted: The people that show up to the meetings represent the community that is a median household income of roughly 100k. So no they're not lower income. The ones that want to change the community are the developers 99% of the time outsiders. It is a free market with rules established when the community was 1st built if you would like to change that buy us out. What you want is to buy property under one set if rules then change the rules to enrich yourself. I've had the opposite experience, the city removed a significant amount of our development rights and we were able to preserve some but not all of them, which is considered a success. If you are concerned about people enriching themselves then look at existing land owners that want to increase their property values. Quoted: Free markets have rules without that you have anarchy, see Houston where you can drop a bar in a residential neighborhood. Feel free to build your denser developments there Houston is more bar friendly than apartment friendly. See this is where developers are delusional. You have no development rights, please show me where this is in the constitution state or federal. Land use and management have been part of government/society for a very long time. Obviously if you're out in the sticks it's a bit different, feel free. But as a suburban property owner I am not out to increase my value per se but I am out to protect it. Every time a denser development is put in the local Elementary school goes to shit in 3-5 years, we have very good history with this as part of our school district is actually in another city and that city is very good at dumping apartments into our district. Shitty schools turn into shitty neighborhoods, pretty simple really. Like i said you want to drop a few thousand units in an area zoned for SFH or commercial, buy out those property owners that will be impacted by your actions. |
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Posted: 6/6/2022 10:28:00 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: NO.... I would like to be able to use property for what it was zoned for when I bought it.... Not have to try and catch a constantly changing asking for more money set of "rules" that seem to be made up as they go..... To try and extort as much as they can from every project. It's why I quit playing there BS game over 10 years ago. Then again, maybe the planing departments of your locals AO may not be a product of super liberal collage that is trying to push a agenda. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Typical developer double speak. Read what I said in my area developers get tax credits to build MF and must promise a certain % of those untis will be affordable. Obviously there is a mix of units but the affordable mix must match the mix in the complex. End of story. The people that show up to the meetings represent the community that is a median household income of roughly 100k. So no they're not lower income. The ones that want to change the community are the developers 99% of the time outsiders. It is a free market with rules established when the community was 1st built if you would like to change that buy us out. What you want is to buy property under one set if rules then change the rules to enrich yourself. Free markets have rules without that you have anarchy, see Houston where you can drop a bar in a residential neighborhood. Feel free to build your denser developments there NO.... I would like to be able to use property for what it was zoned for when I bought it.... Not have to try and catch a constantly changing asking for more money set of "rules" that seem to be made up as they go..... To try and extort as much as they can from every project. It's why I quit playing there BS game over 10 years ago. Then again, maybe the planing departments of your locals AO may not be a product of super liberal collage that is trying to push a agenda. Our P&Z and city people are ate up with the liberal urban planner curriculum of denser everything and these mixed use live/work/play developments. Problem is live/work/play has a certain radius that they are viable, put up too many of these developments in close proximity and they start to cannibalize each other, especially the businesses (restaurants shops etc.) Add in the collapsing commercial real estate environment and these things will be nothing but apartment dwellers soon. I'll say this, the developers we've dealt with have been down right shady, like hiding the fact that they want to reserve the right to increase density beyond what the plat allows for. We found it in a foot note in their plan which if approved would of allowed more MF units and less commercial than the presentation alluded too. Another planned to stuff so many units on the lot that they wanted to use utility easements for the required green space, these were huge transmission lines, the city approved it. Luckily the utility told them no. That project got scrapped Another development passed on the sly, converted a toyota dealership to mixed use.....a shit ton of apartments with a chicken shack and a coffee shop in the parking lot right next to the freeway. This place is next to my kids school, once up and leasing car break ins became more of a thing at the school. Add in most of these include little, if any, infrastructure improvements and what you've got is a suburban area being converted to urban by a handful of developers. The biggest of which, ironically, lives in the burbs of Austin. |
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Posted: 6/6/2022 10:32:36 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd love to see where all the developers in this thread live. The ones around here tend to be some of the most hypocritical people you'll ever encounter, spending all day lobbying to be allowed to build shitty housing for shitty people in everyone's backyard but their own. One of the biggest "affordable housing" mavens in the city lives outside of town on gated acreage in a private community for the very wealthy. My experience as well. Toss in that they most likely send their kids to private school as well, so they have no worries. |
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Posted: 6/6/2022 10:47:02 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bldg and zoning codes are a reflection of what that community wants and how they want to live. Its the developers and business owners that are trying to tell others how they should live. a direct answer to your question is no they won't, any dense developments that are built are far from affordable with out subsidies. Again I've sat on that committee developers were raking in cash and tax credits to guarantee affordable units in the development while charging top of the market rates for the rest. Your first sentence is not reality in many places. For example, my inlaws bought a piece of property and built their retirement home there with one of the major reasons being the land behind them was agricultural and not zoned or platted for development. Within a few months of completing their home, an out of town developer bought the land directly behind theirs and several other people's homes, and applied to the city to have it rezoned. Everyone in the area went to council, spoke to their councilmen, etc against the development, were completely ignored, and the development is moving forward. Now their back treeline is gone and the wooded field behind them has been clear cut, leveled, and going to be cookie cutter homes that back up against their property |
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Posted: 6/6/2022 10:48:28 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They want everyone to live in a shitty high rise apartment building across the street from their assigned work place. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Hey, this is how the communists roll. You'll take your Section 8 housing, your weekly chocolate ration, and you'll like it. They want everyone to live in a shitty high rise apartment building across the street from their assigned work place. |
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Posted: 6/6/2022 11:08:03 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: See this is where developers are delusional. You have no development rights, please show me where this is in the constitution state or federal. Land use and management have been part of government/society for a very long time. Obviously if you're out in the sticks it's a bit different, feel free. Quote HistoryQuoted: See this is where developers are delusional. You have no development rights, please show me where this is in the constitution state or federal. Land use and management have been part of government/society for a very long time. Obviously if you're out in the sticks it's a bit different, feel free. Was it the last page where you posted that people buy their properties with certain expectations based on the zoning of that property? You think developers are any different? When the city says 54 units per acre, should that mean 54? Or 25? Quoted: But as a suburban property owner I am not out to increase my value per se but I am out to protect it. Every time a denser development is put in the local Elementary school goes to shit in 3-5 years, we have very good history with this as part of our school district is actually in another city and that city is very good at dumping apartments into our district. My family in Dallas was irate because they bought a neighborhood with half acre lots and someone came along 30 years later and put in houses on 30 acre lots, which destroyed the schools and allowed poor people to live there. I had to wonder what the farmers on 40s thought about them and their half acre lot. |
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Posted: 6/6/2022 11:21:56 AM EDT
[#30]
Our local councils approve virtually everything the developers ask for, routinely ignoring suggestions from the planning and zoning boards. It recently came out that the developers were donating tens of thousands of dollars to campaign fundraisers for members of one of the local county councils. Our local roads and schools aren't set up to handle all the new development. One small town near me has 4,000 residents, with over 2,600 new homes in development out of 5,000 approved.
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Posted: 6/6/2022 11:28:04 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: everyone, aside from them. They still get sprawling manors. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Hey, this is how the communists roll. You'll take your Section 8 housing, your weekly chocolate ration, and you'll like it. They want everyone to live in a shitty high rise apartment building across the street from their assigned work place. Most developers are perfectly happy to build whatever the government tells them to, because that’s how this is supposed to work. And that’s how you guys want it to work apparently. |
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Posted: 6/6/2022 11:30:28 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Our local councils approve virtually everything the developers ask for, routinely ignoring suggestions from the planning and zoning boards. It recently came out that the developers were donating tens of thousands of dollars to campaign fundraisers for members of one of the local county councils. Our local roads and schools aren't set up to handle all the new development. One small town near me has 4,000 residents, with over 2,600 new homes in development out of 5,000 approved. Somewhere up the road from you is a city that should have been absorbing those residents but didn’t want to, so they got pushed out to you. In ten years they’ll be scratching another cow pasture or the woods where you learned to hunt as a boy and you’ll probably still make fun of the people who think that cities should have to have zoning that favors density, because you haven’t made the connection. |
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Posted: 6/6/2022 11:33:21 AM EDT
[#33]
The renter hate is funny. My neighborhood took a gigantic step down when I moved from an apartment in the city to a suburban house in an exurban town. People stole potted plants from my porch here. In the city my neighbors got packages in the hallway from Saks or Neiman Marcus and if they were out of town for a few weeks they awaited their owners return in safety—in the hallway.
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Posted: 6/6/2022 11:35:55 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Was it the last page where you posted that people buy their properties with certain expectations based on the zoning of that property? You think developers are any different? |
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Posted: 6/6/2022 11:43:13 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Around here, absolutely yes. The only time applying for a property rezoning to the highest density isn't the first thing they do is when they have to apply for the land to be annexed into a town (to get city water and sewer) before applying for the densest zoning. I can't think of a single development around here where they bought the land and kept the 15,000 sq ft minimum lot size with 40 foot setbacks that the land was zoned for when they bought it. I've seen more properties downzoned than upzoned in my life, but at the same time, zoning was more or less created to do what you are talking about. Its basically a tool to reward land speculators by allowing them to increase their land values politically. I mean, what do you want? Zoning that can't ever be changed? |
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Posted: 6/6/2022 1:37:18 PM EDT
[#36]
Not sure about everywhere else but around here we have lots of development.
They build a few large multi story 2-3/1.5 condos. They went for just slightly under a regular home in a nice area. Then they built senior housing semi-assisted facility to address their "special needs" community. Then they decided on luxury townhouses. These are small, about 1/3rd the size of my house with a patio space that overlooks the access road. The townhouses sold for $600-700k. For perspective, at the time homes in my upper middle class were going for 600s on half an acre or more. To cap it off to make it "walkable" they slapped a massive Walmart shopping center with about 3 acres of parking lot in, right after the last townhouse sold. Now these poor fuckers get to look out their front door and see People of Walmart in person. |
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Posted: 6/6/2022 2:45:18 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your first sentence is not reality in many places. For example, my inlaws bought a piece of property and built their retirement home there with one of the major reasons being the land behind them was agricultural and not zoned or platted for development. Within a few months of completing their home, an out of town developer bought the land directly behind theirs and several other people's homes, and applied to the city to have it rezoned. Everyone in the area went to council, spoke to their councilmen, etc against the development, were completely ignored, and the development is moving forward. Now their back treeline is gone and the wooded field behind them has been clear cut, leveled, and going to be cookie cutter homes that back up against their property Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Bldg and zoning codes are a reflection of what that community wants and how they want to live. Its the developers and business owners that are trying to tell others how they should live. a direct answer to your question is no they won't, any dense developments that are built are far from affordable with out subsidies. Again I've sat on that committee developers were raking in cash and tax credits to guarantee affordable units in the development while charging top of the market rates for the rest. Your first sentence is not reality in many places. For example, my inlaws bought a piece of property and built their retirement home there with one of the major reasons being the land behind them was agricultural and not zoned or platted for development. Within a few months of completing their home, an out of town developer bought the land directly behind theirs and several other people's homes, and applied to the city to have it rezoned. Everyone in the area went to council, spoke to their councilmen, etc against the development, were completely ignored, and the development is moving forward. Now their back treeline is gone and the wooded field behind them has been clear cut, leveled, and going to be cookie cutter homes that back up against their property I should of been a bit more articulate with that statement as it has been a fight in my area, with some losses and some wins for the SFH owner. Most recently the developers dumped a ton of money into our council and mayoral race and the residents lost and the current zoning laws are being revised left and right but the existing ones are a reflection of what we as a community want. We did win a court case and forced the city to revise it's development plan. But your inlaws experience is not foreign to me. In fact, the exact situation they experience is what infuriates me. Developers knew the zoning before buying the property and should be forced to buy out everyone around the property they're asking for the rezoning on. |
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Posted: 6/6/2022 2:48:29 PM EDT
[#38]
You will own nothing and be happier...
 These commies won't be satisfied until everyone is living in Judge Dredd Mega City style buildings. 
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Posted: 6/6/2022 2:49:47 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Was it the last page where you posted that people buy their properties with certain expectations based on the zoning of that property? You think developers are any different? When the city says 54 units per acre, should that mean 54? Or 25? My family in Dallas was irate because they bought a neighborhood with half acre lots and someone came along 30 years later and put in houses on 30 acre lots, which destroyed the schools and allowed poor people to live there. I had to wonder what the farmers on 40s thought about them and their half acre lot. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: See this is where developers are delusional. You have no development rights, please show me where this is in the constitution state or federal. Land use and management have been part of government/society for a very long time. Obviously if you're out in the sticks it's a bit different, feel free. Was it the last page where you posted that people buy their properties with certain expectations based on the zoning of that property? You think developers are any different? When the city says 54 units per acre, should that mean 54? Or 25? Quoted: But as a suburban property owner I am not out to increase my value per se but I am out to protect it. Every time a denser development is put in the local Elementary school goes to shit in 3-5 years, we have very good history with this as part of our school district is actually in another city and that city is very good at dumping apartments into our district. My family in Dallas was irate because they bought a neighborhood with half acre lots and someone came along 30 years later and put in houses on 30 acre lots, which destroyed the schools and allowed poor people to live there. I had to wonder what the farmers on 40s thought about them and their half acre lot. We may be cross wise here, my complaint is the developer should live within the constraints of the zoning when they bought the property. If it allows for MF so be it I should of done my research before purchasing next or near it. That however has not been my experience, most developers buy commercial retail or SF zoned properties and want to stuff them with MF at least in my area. The current example is a fly in/out community that a developer wants to convert to MF, she is buying one lot at a time once she reaches 51% of the land she intends to change the covenants to get rid of the run way and has already asked the city to rezone it MF. Not following on that last paragraph. |
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Posted: 6/6/2022 2:58:46 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've seen more properties downzoned than upzoned in my life, but at the same time, zoning was more or less created to do what you are talking about. Its basically a tool to reward land speculators by allowing them to increase their land values politically. I mean, what do you want? Zoning that can't ever be changed? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Around here, absolutely yes. The only time applying for a property rezoning to the highest density isn't the first thing they do is when they have to apply for the land to be annexed into a town (to get city water and sewer) before applying for the densest zoning. I can't think of a single development around here where they bought the land and kept the 15,000 sq ft minimum lot size with 40 foot setbacks that the land was zoned for when they bought it. I've seen more properties downzoned than upzoned in my life, but at the same time, zoning was more or less created to do what you are talking about. Its basically a tool to reward land speculators by allowing them to increase their land values politically. I mean, what do you want? Zoning that can't ever be changed? I can't say I've ever seen that. The worst I've seen is a city changed their building codes to force a more even mix of expensive vs cheap homes back in 2004 or so. They got tired of the fox and jacobs 150k 4000 Sq ft garbage, which was not much better than trailers and forced them to build better homes which drove up the cost obviously. Another city required anything over 400 sq ft to have in home sprinkler systems. So yes cities will do things to avoid cheap products. But at the same time Obama and NGO's started trying to force the denser development on the premise it would be cheaper to the resident. My experience is it's generally not, not without some form of subsidy and the ones that are cheap enough quickly become a burden on the local resources. |
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Posted: 6/6/2022 3:12:22 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Government does not exist in a vacuum especially at the local level. Residents of the area have said they don't want dense development and /or bought their homes with the understanding dense development would not happen. If you're going to change the rules pay up. If you don't like it build elsewhere jts not hard. Markets have rules and the local residents have set the rules. Developers need to stop trying to change the rules for places they don't live so they can make a buck. If developers want dense development next to sfh developers can build it next to their homes first. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Stop putting constraints on america A nation of karens, communist, and selfish fucks Where I live, it's illegal. You're only allowed to build single family homes. By government decree, and strict zoning enforcement. Government does not exist in a vacuum especially at the local level. Residents of the area have said they don't want dense development and /or bought their homes with the understanding dense development would not happen. If you're going to change the rules pay up. If you don't like it build elsewhere jts not hard. Markets have rules and the local residents have set the rules. Developers need to stop trying to change the rules for places they don't live so they can make a buck. If developers want dense development next to sfh developers can build it next to their homes first. Here's the thing - a lot of people that are living in single family homes, aren't doing so because they fuckin' love living in single family homes, in subdivisions, with yards, and all that jazz. They're doing it, because it's the most economically advantageous thing for them to do, in their current circumstance, given their available options. My own stupid subdivision is half full with rentals, where two or three families pool their resources, to swing the rent. They don't WANT to live with their fuckin' cousins, but where I live, it's flat out illegal to build denser housing that they can actually afford on their own. It's codified. Illegal. Doesn't matter if you own the land or not. Fuck you - not allowed, and we'll put you in jail if you press it hard enough, and refuse to follow our rules obstinately enough. If a free market loving developer comes in, and says "Hey - I can actually make a shit ton of money building this style of housing on this parcel of private property I own", the government says "No - fuck you". And "conservatives" cheer this shit, which I'll never understand. It's honestly kind of the same, when I think about traffic. I'm a gear head, to my very core. And it occurs to me, as I sit in traffic with a gazillion other people, that a metric fuck ton of them aren't sitting in their nearly invisible beige-box crossover pieces of shit, but for a love of driving and the "freedom of the open road". They're only doing it, because they have no real or practical alternative. They don't actually WANT to drive everywhere, but we've basically made it illegal to do anything but what they're doing. If these disinterested cocks were off the roads and had some better alternatives more suited to what they really wanted, I'd have a grand old time in my old car at 7am on a Monday. But I can't. Because we've made building that sort of city or region, illegal. |
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Posted: 6/6/2022 3:18:21 PM EDT
[#42]
Apartments are certainly cheaper for residents.
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Posted: 6/6/2022 3:25:57 PM EDT
[#43]
I agree with their assessment but for completely different reasons.
It's weird that Americans don't live in bigger family groups like human beings did for most of our history. If we did, many of todays issues wouldn't be issues. Childcare for working parents would be a moot point if grandparents lived in the same house to provide that function. Unmarried adult children wouldn't be wasting money on rent if they lived with their parents until they were married and starting families of their own. The grandparents wouldn't be facing poverty from living on SS if they lived with their kids and grandkids and used that SS money to contribute to the overall household. I fully intend to buy as much land as I can, and build a big house on it, my kids will be welcome to live there as contributing members until they are ready to start their own families, and then I'll encourage and help them build their own homes on the same property for continued mutual support. Until we get back to more close knit larger family units, this country will continue to suffer. Lack of good family and community is the main factor contributing to many of our mental health problems. |
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Posted: 6/6/2022 3:32:38 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We may be cross wise here, my complaint is the developer should live within the constraints of the zoning when they bought the property. If it allows for MF so be it I should of done my research before purchasing next or near it. That however has not been my experience, most developers buy commercial retail or SF zoned properties and want to stuff them with MF at least in my area. Quote HistoryQuoted: We may be cross wise here, my complaint is the developer should live within the constraints of the zoning when they bought the property. If it allows for MF so be it I should of done my research before purchasing next or near it. That however has not been my experience, most developers buy commercial retail or SF zoned properties and want to stuff them with MF at least in my area. Generally speaking about 80% of residential land is zoned for single family. My family spent millions of dollars on land zoned for 54 units per acre (which is very urban) only to discover that it was "fake zoning" that was designed to make it look like the city had enough apartment land, even though they had no intention of letting us build it. We are selling the land to a better connected developer who will be able to build at urban densities. Quoted: The current example is a fly in/out community that a developer wants to convert to MF, she is buying one lot at a time once she reaches 51% of the land she intends to change the covenants to get rid of the run way and has already asked the city to rezone it MF. If you go back 100 years to when zoning was new you will find that it was almost immediately captured by speculators that used it to enrich themselves. That's the history. At the same time, if you are going to have it, you need to be able to change it. Designing land use to meet the needs of 300,000,000 people and then only allowing updates by unanimous consensus is ridiculous. The big problem right now is that in most of the country the people that vote for city council and go to the meetings are wealthy and retired, they want things to stay the same forever, and they really don't give a shit about anyone else... they'll tell you to your face that young people don't belong in their communities, they need to leave and come back one day if they become wealthy, otherwise they don't belong. |
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Posted: 6/6/2022 3:34:21 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ...the ones that are cheap enough quickly become a burden on the local resources. Where do you expect poor people to live? In a walled off ghetto on the other side of town? Half my family is rich, the other half is poor. Should they be allowed to live in the same city together? |
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Posted: 6/6/2022 3:45:48 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where do you expect poor people to live? In a walled off ghetto on the other side of town? Half my family is rich, the other half is poor. Should they be allowed to live in the same city together? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: ...the ones that are cheap enough quickly become a burden on the local resources. Where do you expect poor people to live? In a walled off ghetto on the other side of town? Half my family is rich, the other half is poor. Should they be allowed to live in the same city together? |
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Posted: 6/6/2022 3:48:40 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you want dense masses of poors living adjacent to your domicile? Given that I've been one of them for most of my life, yeah. I have more problems with neighbors now that I have trailer trash neighbors in my single family neighborhood and no manager to report them to. Right now they are racing dirt bikes up and down the street. |
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Posted: 6/6/2022 3:50:13 PM EDT
[#48]
No.
People who hate this country and hate single family homes can leave. I recommend China. |
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Posted: 6/6/2022 3:54:21 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you ever get tired of everything being a conspiracy theory? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: There are only 2 classes in a mountain town. The super rich, and the worker peons to support the rich. There is no middle class. Increasing the supply of homes is okay, but is the creation of affordable gov't housing okay? Do you ever get tired of everything being a conspiracy theory? If, after 90 years of data on the crime and perpetual poverty factories called Federal housing projects, you are still in favor of the government building more housing projects, you need a few conspiracy theories rattling around your cranium to spark a thought or two. |
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Posted: 6/6/2022 3:57:38 PM EDT
[#50]
Too many people not good enough handling money to be able to buy a house! In other words dumb.
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