American Battle Buddies/American Pioneer Corps Guidelines - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - American Battle Buddies/American Pioneer Corps Guidelines (Page 2 of 22)

Posted: 1/25/2020 7:57:00 PM EDT

[#1]

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Round 1 of the Navy PRT attempt kicked my butt even if I call myself the age I turn in 3 weeks.

Life goals for 2020 : BB all the things.

Is there a witness requirement for any hikes beyond provisional?

I get that the program is to form buddies but I am in a no mans land between Central and Tidewater (I don’t recognize any of the names of the places posed for Central VA meetup), most of the time I hike at Pocahontas state park. I will spam forums for buddies if I am trying to hit them in the 90 day req. I’ve got to get in shape first. Think I will hike with 45 lbs to get better at hiking with 45 lbs...

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That was an oversight. OP corrected. At least two witnesses unrelated to you are required for each qualifying hike unless otherwise specified. This is both to keep us honest and to encourage others to participate.

Posted: 1/25/2020 7:58:47 PM EDT

[#2]

Quote History

Quoted:
Round 1 of the Navy PRT attempt kicked my butt even if I call myself the age I turn in 3 weeks.

Life goals for 2020 : BB all the things.

Is there a witness requirement for any hikes beyond provisional?

I get that the program is to form buddies but I am in a no mans land between Central and Tidewater (I don’t recognize any of the names of the places posed for Central VA meetup), most of the time I hike at Pocahontas state park. I will spam forums for buddies if I am trying to hit them in the 90 day req. I’ve got to get in shape first. Think I will hike with 45 lbs to get better at hiking with 45 lbs...

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Suggestion, hike verification can be done using one of various sports/trails apps. I track mine using Strava and Alltrails.

Posted: 1/25/2020 8:01:10 PM EDT

[#3]

Quote History

Quoted:

That was an oversight. OP corrected. At least two witnesses unrelated to you are required for each qualifying hike unless otherwise specified. This is both to keep us honest and to encourage others to participate.

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When you say “unrelated to you”, do you mean that they can’t be my cousins or that they need to be two dudes that I don’t know at all?

Posted: 1/25/2020 8:32:18 PM EDT

[#4]

Quote History

Quoted:
Suggestion, hike verification can be done using one of various sports/trails apps. I track mine using Strava and Alltrails.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Round 1 of the Navy PRT attempt kicked my butt even if I call myself the age I turn in 3 weeks.

Life goals for 2020 : BB all the things.

Is there a witness requirement for any hikes beyond provisional?

I get that the program is to form buddies but I am in a no mans land between Central and Tidewater (I don’t recognize any of the names of the places posed for Central VA meetup), most of the time I hike at Pocahontas state park. I will spam forums for buddies if I am trying to hit them in the 90 day req. I’ve got to get in shape first. Think I will hike with 45 lbs to get better at hiking with 45 lbs...

Suggestion, hike verification can be done using one of various sports/trails apps. I track mine using Strava and Alltrails.

No way to verify the weight, plus people could cheat by roller skating etc. But more importantly the primary purpose of this is for patriots to network at a local level, rucking by yourself with an app doesn't accomplish that.

For those who live in remote areas--maybe they could apply for exceptions on a case by case basis to extend the window to complete the buddy hikes longer than 90 days? I'm not sure anywhere in VA is remote enough to warrant that though, there is a group in the NC Triad area, the NoVA group, and I'm sure if noplace else we'll get groups in Roanoke/Blacksburg, Norfolk, and Richmond

Posted: 1/25/2020 8:36:52 PM EDT

[#5]

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Maybe patched at an Appleseed or clearing the range at a CW (less than 20% do this most of the time). CW is pistol and rifle.

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My A2 HBAR begs for this.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/20GQmGG-768x576.jpg

Maybe patched at an Appleseed or clearing the range at a CW (less than 20% do this most of the time). CW is pistol and rifle.

Cleared the COF at Texas 2...then I died.

Posted: 1/25/2020 8:37:31 PM EDT

[#6]

Quote History

Quoted:

No way to verify the weight, plus people could cheat by roller skating etc. But more importantly the primary purpose of this is for patriots to network at a local level, rucking by yourself with an app doesn't accomplish that.

For those who live in remote areas--maybe they could apply for exceptions on a case by case basis to extend the window to complete the buddy hikes longer than 90 days?

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At some point integrity should be a skill too. If I or anyone posts a ruck with pics on a tracking app like that then they did it. Currently we are slim and far between in many areas. Event hikes would need to be planned to get everyone together to try for the goal.

Posted: 1/25/2020 8:38:58 PM EDT

[#7]

I think planning hikes together is the best part of the whole ordeal. That’s what the BB essentially started out as.

Posted: 1/25/2020 8:39:20 PM EDT

[#8]

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Cleared the COF at Texas 2...then I died.

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I cleared SE last year, haven't cleared at VA yet. It sounds like SE this year is pretty much impossible to clear.

Posted: 1/25/2020 8:46:48 PM EDT

[#9]

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Sorry if this sounds like I'm shitposting... but this seems like a lot of work OP.

To the average guy, this could be a bit too structured and involved than what he's willing to go through to be honest. Just my opinion

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Good

Posted: 1/25/2020 8:52:38 PM EDT

[#10]

Any specific procedure, policy, or requirements for starting a chapter? I am trying to start one in central KY.

Once a chapter is started, to what degree does it need to be connected to any central managing authority, and what would that entail?

Posted: 1/25/2020 8:59:52 PM EDT

[#11]

Tag because.

Posted: 1/25/2020 9:07:13 PM EDT

[#12]

ben ...I'm 62.

The Navy PFT only goes up to 50-54.

So....that means I have to pass that age group I guess.

Also, don't you give a choice between the run and swim?

Posted: 1/25/2020 9:07:44 PM EDT

[#13]

I like this. If there is ever an OK chapter and I get a chance to hike, I'm going to.

Posted: 1/25/2020 9:09:10 PM EDT

[#14]

Nice!

I wonder if the Engineer rating will require a PE, or just an ABET degree and a job in the field.

Posted: 1/25/2020 9:41:29 PM EDT

[#15]

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When you say “unrelated to you”, do you mean that they can’t be my cousins or that they need to be two dudes that I don’t know at all?

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Quoted:

That was an oversight. OP corrected. At least two witnesses unrelated to you are required for each qualifying hike unless otherwise specified. This is both to keep us honest and to encourage others to participate.

When you say “unrelated to you”, do you mean that they can’t be my cousins or that they need to be two dudes that I don’t know at all?

Immediate family cannot verify- cousins should be fine. OP updated. Thanks.

Posted: 1/25/2020 9:44:37 PM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:
Any specific procedure, policy, or requirements for starting a chapter? I am trying to start one in central KY.

Once a chapter is started, to what degree does it need to be connected to any central managing authority, and what would that entail?

View Quote

Chapters can start, at least as of now, simply by associating together with a total of 3 or more people intent on participating. That may change once incorporating is complete, but only if a chapter wants us to centrally assist funding their activities and training opportunities.

We only ask that you keep track of when people complete qualifying events so we can verify when they want to compete in the national events.

Posted: 1/25/2020 9:45:08 PM EDT

[#17]

Quote History

Quoted:
ben ...I'm 62.

The Navy PFT only goes up to 50-54.

So....that means I have to pass that age group I guess.

Also, don't you give a choice between the run and swim?

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You can absolutely choose to swim.

Posted: 1/25/2020 9:59:22 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Nice!

I wonder if the Engineer rating will require a PE, or just an ABET degree and a job in the field.

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Lol. Let’s not get lost in the weeds until we start the land nav. IMO, if you do engineering related to the tasks required, it counts. I’m a structural guy. We could really use some people to set up networks and repeaters. An appropriate engineer in that field should definitely use the title.

Again, IMO.

Posted: 1/25/2020 10:15:26 PM EDT

[#19]

I'm game and in Florida. I'm damaged, but I can hike ultralight. I'll settle for the rank of 'Always dead last and too stupid to quit'.

Posted: 1/25/2020 10:16:15 PM EDT

[#20]

I think setting ruck weights using arbitrary numbers is the wrong way of going about it. It would be better to have a packing list ( ie 4x socks, 2x underwear, 2L water, etc.) and have everyone supply their own gear. I've spent a lot of time and money acquiring lightweight shit so I never have to be a suffering turtle again.

JMHO, from someone who is potentially interested.

Posted: 1/25/2020 10:26:16 PM EDT

[#21]

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I'm game and in Florida. I'm damaged, but I can hike ultralight. I'll settle for the rank of 'Always dead last and too stupid to quit'.

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We're working on it here https://www.ar15.com/forums/hometown/any-interest-in-a-Florida-Battle-Buddies-chapter-of-the-ABB-/10-640300/

Posted: 1/25/2020 10:28:38 PM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:
I think setting ruck weights using arbitrary numbers is the wrong way of going about it. It would be better to have a packing list ( ie 4x socks, 2x underwear, 2L water, etc.) and have everyone supply their own gear. I've spent a lot of time and money acquiring lightweight shit so I never have to be a suffering turtle again.

JMHO, from someone who is potentially interested.

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The method behind the madness for the weights is from pretty extensive testing conducted by the armed forces.

Effectively, it is assuming you may generally pack significantly lighter for your personal everyday gear, but then will often be burdened with extra essential specialized gear, batteries, ammo, extra water, or any other number of things.

It also helps verify a given minimum level of physical capability. 35lbs is honestly pretty light. Many of the NBB guys carry in the 50 to 75lbs range, exuding armor, chest rig, etc.

Posted: 1/25/2020 10:29:13 PM EDT

[#23]

Quote History

Quoted:
I think setting ruck weights using arbitrary numbers is the wrong way of going about it. It would be better to have a packing list ( ie 4x socks, 2x underwear, 2L water, etc.) and have everyone supply their own gear. I've spent a lot of time and money acquiring lightweight shit so I never have to be a suffering turtle again.

JMHO, from someone who is potentially interested.

View Quote

there's a difference between (a) weight for physical training and (2) accumulating a basic combat load list. One can do the former with weight that is either the basic combat load, bricks etc., without making the latter a barrier to entry.

But yes, creating a separate packing list for action would be helpful.

Posted: 1/25/2020 10:35:58 PM EDT

[#24]

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I like this. If there is ever an OK chapter and I get a chance to hike, I'm going to.

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@sherrick13

I'm planning a hike at Arcadia Lake if you want to join me.

Posted: 1/25/2020 10:45:52 PM EDT

[#25]

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@sherrick13

I'm planning a hike at Arcadia Lake if you want to join me.

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Quoted:
I like this. If there is ever an OK chapter and I get a chance to hike, I'm going to.

@sherrick13

I'm planning a hike at Arcadia Lake if you want to join me.

Keep me informed. I am heading into tax season, but if I can get away I'll join up.

Posted: 1/25/2020 10:46:00 PM EDT

[#26]

15 pushups and 15 sit-ups every 100 yards

Posted: 1/25/2020 10:54:35 PM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:
Lol. Let’s not get lost in the weeds until we start the land nav. IMO, if you do engineering related to the tasks required, it counts. I’m a structural guy. We could really use some people to set up networks and repeaters. An appropriate engineer in that field should definitely use the title.

Again, IMO.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Nice!

I wonder if the Engineer rating will require a PE, or just an ABET degree and a job in the field.

Lol. Let’s not get lost in the weeds until we start the land nav. IMO, if you do engineering related to the tasks required, it counts. I’m a structural guy. We could really use some people to set up networks and repeaters. An appropriate engineer in that field should definitely use the title.

Again, IMO.

My PE is in Aerospace Engineering. But, I can do an almost passable job on comms.

Posted: 1/25/2020 11:15:57 PM EDT

[#28]

Can someone verify the "witness" thing to mean someone has to go along the hikes with you or just has to see the data on whatever app you use once you complete a hike.

Meaning, can go on a 6 mile hike myself then get back and show someone my app or does someone need to come along the hike with me the whole way to verify?

Edit: Also, in this thread https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/American-Battle-Buddies-Warfighter-Challenge-6-7JUN2020/5-2285962/ you state " Open to any individuals who have, by 30 days before the event, achieved at least a 3rd Class Battle Buddy rating from anywhere in the country,..." So if you achieve the provisional rating are you not able to attend?

Posted: 1/25/2020 11:40:41 PM EDT

[#29]

Quote History

Quoted:
Can someone verify the "witness" thing to mean someone has to go along the hikes with you or just has to see the data on whatever app you use once you complete a hike.

Meaning, can go on a 6 mile hike myself then get back and show someone my app or does someone need to come along the hike with me the whole way to verify?

Edit: Also, in this thread https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/American-Battle-Buddies-Warfighter-Challenge-6-7JUN2020/5-2285962/ you state " Open to any individuals who have, by 30 days before the event, achieved at least a 3rd Class Battle Buddy rating from anywhere in the country,..." So if you achieve the provisional rating are you not able to attend?

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The idea with the 'witness' is to encourage networking and participation or seek out active groups to hike with. 3 people could complete a challenge at the same time. I can't speak to the rest of your inquiry.

Posted: 1/25/2020 11:59:48 PM EDT

[#30]

Tag

Posted: 1/26/2020 12:02:58 AM EDT

[#31]

Tag

Posted: 1/26/2020 12:18:59 AM EDT

[#32]

IN!

I strapped on my 40 pound vest and spent 60 minutes on the treadmill @ 3.4 mph today to see how these 50 year old knees felt about this. So far no probs . . . I can't wait to get synced up with my local team!

Seriously Ben - this is excellent and awesome. This is precisely the group activity and bonding experience that we need. Again - thank you VERY much for your time and effort!

Posted: 1/26/2020 12:19:33 AM EDT

[#33]

This is outstanding.
I know a lot of people are put off by the modern versions of Militia and the public stigma doesn’t help.. This is a much more effective way for people to meet up and share common Intrest’s. Very interested to see where this goes.

Posted: 1/26/2020 12:26:58 AM EDT

[#34]

Quote History

Quoted:
Can someone verify the "witness" thing to mean someone has to go along the hikes with you or just has to see the data on whatever app you use once you complete a hike.

Meaning, can go on a 6 mile hike myself then get back and show someone my app or does someone need to come along the hike with me the whole way to verify?

Edit: Also, in this thread https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/American-Battle-Buddies-Warfighter-Challenge-6-7JUN2020/5-2285962/ you state " Open to any individuals who have, by 30 days before the event, achieved at least a 3rd Class Battle Buddy rating from anywhere in the country,..." So if you achieve the provisional rating are you not able to attend?

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The intent is to get people hiking together- even if the witness doesn't carry weight.

Provisional folks can go on a wait list- they are welcome to attend, but depending on turnout may not get to compete in every event.

Posted: 1/26/2020 12:29:29 AM EDT

[#35]

I made a post in the Alabama Hometown forum....looking for takers to get this done.

Posted: 1/26/2020 12:33:20 AM EDT

[#36]

Quote History

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The intent is to get people hiking together- even if the witness doesn't carry weight.

Provisional folks can go on a wait list- they are welcome to attend, but depending on turnout may not get to compete in every event.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Can someone verify the "witness" thing to mean someone has to go along the hikes with you or just has to see the data on whatever app you use once you complete a hike.

Meaning, can go on a 6 mile hike myself then get back and show someone my app or does someone need to come along the hike with me the whole way to verify?

Edit: Also, in this thread https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/American-Battle-Buddies-Warfighter-Challenge-6-7JUN2020/5-2285962/ you state " Open to any individuals who have, by 30 days before the event, achieved at least a 3rd Class Battle Buddy rating from anywhere in the country,..." So if you achieve the provisional rating are you not able to attend?

The intent is to get people hiking together- even if the witness doesn't carry weight.

Provisional folks can go on a wait list- they are welcome to attend, but depending on turnout may not get to compete in every event.

Excellent, thanks.

I have a looooooooot of work to do but I'll be working towards it.

Posted: 1/26/2020 9:43:03 AM EDT

[#37]

Glad to see so much interest in the ABB/APC.

It is good to have Buddies!

Posted: 1/26/2020 10:56:15 AM EDT

[#38]

Quote History

Quoted:
I think setting ruck weights using arbitrary numbers is the wrong way of going about it. It would be better to have a packing list ( ie 4x socks, 2x underwear, 2L water, etc.) and have everyone supply their own gear. I've spent a lot of time and money acquiring lightweight shit so I never have to be a suffering turtle again.

JMHO, from someone who is potentially interested.

View Quote

Rucking 50lbs made lobby day loadout a breeze.

For me anyways, I dig it. I hike 6 miles with 50lbs, but real life stuff will probably be 30lbs for 3.

Hikes reminded me of running competitively. You're not just training your body, you're training your brain to keep pushing.

Posted: 1/26/2020 1:02:51 PM EDT

[#39]

Quote History

Quoted:
Rucking 50lbs made lobby day loadout a breeze.

For me anyways, I dig it. I hike 6 miles with 50lbs, but real life stuff will probably be 30lbs for 3.

Hikes reminded me of running competitively. You're not just training your body, you're training your brain to keep pushing.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
I think setting ruck weights using arbitrary numbers is the wrong way of going about it. It would be better to have a packing list ( ie 4x socks, 2x underwear, 2L water, etc.) and have everyone supply their own gear. I've spent a lot of time and money acquiring lightweight shit so I never have to be a suffering turtle again.

JMHO, from someone who is potentially interested.

Rucking 50lbs made lobby day loadout a breeze.

For me anyways, I dig it. I hike 6 miles with 50lbs, but real life stuff will probably be 30lbs for 3.

Hikes reminded me of running competitively. You're not just training your body, you're training your brain to keep pushing.

I get that hiking is great exercise, I was just under the impression that the Battle Buddies were going to be a more practically focused version of GoRuck. By that I mean "train like you fight" full-gear shakedown marches that include fieldcraft rather than "sack full of weights" exercising.

I carried half my bodyweight around in the Army and now I'm into Ultralight so packweight discussions make me #triggered lol.

I'll still check out the local Florida group once it gets hammered out, you can't get too much exercise. It would be nice to meet up with some locals regardless and have some fun. I support everything you guys have done so far, and I'm not trying to come off as critical with any of this, I just had some misconceptions.

Posted: 1/26/2020 1:04:38 PM EDT

[#40]

Is there a central place to report qualifying people/events?

Posted: 1/26/2020 1:44:11 PM EDT

[#41]

@Ben

what are your thoughts about allowing achievement of Rifleman score at an Appleseed event to qualify for 2nd class/1st Class? If verified by an Appleseed instructor, of course. The course of fire is modeled after NRA high-power course of fire.

Posted: 1/26/2020 1:45:23 PM EDT

[#42]

Quote History

Quoted:
I get that hiking is great exercise, I was just under the impression that the Battle Buddies were going to be a more practically focused version of GoRuck. By that I mean "train like you fight" full-gear shakedown marches that include fieldcraft rather than "sack full of weights" exercising.

I carried half my bodyweight around in the Army and now I'm into Ultralight so packweight discussions make me #triggered lol.

I'll still check out the local Florida group once it gets hammered out, you can't get too much exercise. It would be nice to meet up with some locals regardless and have some fun. I support everything you guys have done so far, and I'm not trying to come off as critical with any of this, I just had some misconceptions.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
I think setting ruck weights using arbitrary numbers is the wrong way of going about it. It would be better to have a packing list ( ie 4x socks, 2x underwear, 2L water, etc.) and have everyone supply their own gear. I've spent a lot of time and money acquiring lightweight shit so I never have to be a suffering turtle again.

JMHO, from someone who is potentially interested.

Rucking 50lbs made lobby day loadout a breeze.

For me anyways, I dig it. I hike 6 miles with 50lbs, but real life stuff will probably be 30lbs for 3.

Hikes reminded me of running competitively. You're not just training your body, you're training your brain to keep pushing.

I get that hiking is great exercise, I was just under the impression that the Battle Buddies were going to be a more practically focused version of GoRuck. By that I mean "train like you fight" full-gear shakedown marches that include fieldcraft rather than "sack full of weights" exercising.

I carried half my bodyweight around in the Army and now I'm into Ultralight so packweight discussions make me #triggered lol.

I'll still check out the local Florida group once it gets hammered out, you can't get too much exercise. It would be nice to meet up with some locals regardless and have some fun. I support everything you guys have done so far, and I'm not trying to come off as critical with any of this, I just had some misconceptions.

I think the f2f networking is just as important as the physical/rifle aspects.

Posted: 1/26/2020 1:49:41 PM EDT

[#43]

Quote History

Quoted:
@Ben

what are your thoughts about allowing achievement of Rifleman score at an Appleseed event to qualify for 2nd class/1st Class? If verified by an Appleseed instructor, of course. The course of fire is modeled after NRA high-power course of fire.

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I doubt he will go for this and it seems to be part of the “barrier to entry” and a good one at that. He told me via PM that a local range which has a monthly scaled-to-100-yards HighPower Service Rifle event would be a handicap so I can’t imagine the 22LR 25M Appleseed would.

However doing an AS would make you more than capable of the maximum MOA required to score 70% when you go to a real event.

Posted: 1/26/2020 1:59:59 PM EDT

[#44]

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I think the f2f networking is just as important as the physical/rifle aspects.

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Agreed, that's why I'll be there regardless.

Posted: 1/26/2020 2:07:50 PM EDT

[#45]

OST

Posted: 1/26/2020 2:11:34 PM EDT

[#46]

Tag for future use

Posted: 1/26/2020 2:24:25 PM EDT

[#47]

Quote History

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My PE is in Aerospace Engineering. But, I can do an almost passable job on comms.

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Quoted:
Nice!

I wonder if the Engineer rating will require a PE, or just an ABET degree and a job in the field.

Lol. Let’s not get lost in the weeds until we start the land nav. IMO, if you do engineering related to the tasks required, it counts. I’m a structural guy. We could really use some people to set up networks and repeaters. An appropriate engineer in that field should definitely use the title.

Again, IMO.

My PE is in Aerospace Engineering. But, I can do an almost passable job on comms.

I took my PE in Civil Construction and that was a toss up vs water resources or environmental as I have spent my career building water and wastewater facilities. Spent many year surveying too, I may eventually go and get my LS. If we are looking for practical field side of engineering stuff, basic surveying, basics of structures, etc. I am happy to help with that.

I'm working on the physical fitness aspect now.

I am happy to help with comms too. I'm starting to round up parts for a backpack HF rig....

Posted: 1/26/2020 2:35:05 PM EDT

[#48]

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any thoughts on how / if handicapped folks might participate?

Amputees / prosthesis / etc.

If this isn’t for them, it isn’t, life isn’t fair. Just throwing it out there.

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Sounds like it just isn't for everyone.

I'm middle-aged and reasonably fit with decent mobility but I'm under doctors orders to not hike distance or run. Too many metal parts in my leg.

No rank I'm eligible for if they all have a 3 mile minimum.

Posted: 1/26/2020 2:42:30 PM EDT

[#49]

I need an alt standard for rough terrain. All the trails around me go up and mountains.

It’s either that or we use roads. And I don’t want to use roads if I can avoid it.

Some kind of adjustment factor for vertical elevation gain.

I have a great place for hikes nearby but it starts with a 600ft to 1100ft elevation gain. It’s part of the AT.

I hop the border and wear it out twice a week in the summer.

Posted: 1/26/2020 2:43:37 PM EDT

[#50]

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There is a method to the madness. It helps provide legitimacy, especially in the case of participation in congressionally chartered CMP matches.

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What if you have previously competed in a service rifle match and have a record of it?

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - American Battle Buddies/American Pioneer Corps Guidelines (Page 2 of 22)

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