What is stored in adipose tissue? Is it a pure energy in the form of calories? Or is it fat?

If it’s fat stored in fat cells,please propose a biochemical pathway or mechanism for how “calories” can become stored in adipose tissue. If it’s calories that is stored in fat cells, please propose how energy is transmuted into something physical and with mass.

Body weight is determined by calories in vs calories out. Again show me a fat person that came out of the camps? Are you a chonk because you keep making this sound way more complicated than it is and that’s trademark of people that just can’t accept responsibility for their actions.

Body weight is determined by a large swath of factors, one of which is calories in vs calories out.

>people who starved to near death were skinny

No shit Sherlock, that doesn’t prove or disprove anything. Perhaps go read the Minnesota Starvation Experiments.

I’m making it sound more complicated than it is because it is more complicated than it is. Much like the study I linked earlier your advice can fuck people up by absolutely destroying their metabolism.

Was that the thermal dynamics thing? Let’s be real here 99.99% of people are fat because they have no self control and shovel piles of food down their throats and do no physical activities. They don’t need a shot they need some self control and discipline.

Because they piss the sugars out that collect in the blood due to no insulin, then burn fat for energy and go into DKA and die.

I don’t disagree. Obesity is largely an addiction problem which creates an environment for a bunch of disregulated hormones that creates a negative feedback loop.

If approach it first as a hormonal problem, and people can understand the why, they will have better success. Obviously calories matter, but it’s not the only thing that matters.

Again, The Biggest Loser study tells you everything you need to know.

Also, people buy cars with seat belts and air bags because 99.99% of them don’t have enough self control to pay attention on the road.

welcome to keto bro land. where some youtuber with an MD ignoring accepted medical practice to preach low carb = jesus and all other research is a big pharma conspiracy, and doctors want to keep you sick to drive their profits.

No they didn't. If they had they wouldn't be fat.

Treatment of massive obesity with rice/reduction diet program. An analysis of 106 patients with at least a 45-kg weight loss

eat nothing but rice, lose weight, improve blood glucose control, unpossible according to keto bros.

To be honest, people don't really follow the "food pyramid", they eat purity junk food like chips, snack foods, and wash it down with soda.

Eating pop tarts and beef jerky isn't the same as eating meat and vegetables, with a few other whole foods every now and then, in reasonable portions.

Someone in this thread only eating Poptarts is fine...so they are out there.  

You don’t think the food pyramid had a massive psychological impact on the American Public?

You don’t think telling people to eat less meat and eat more breads and pasta contributed to the modern American diet?

I remember being taught the food pyramid all throughout school as a kid.  I also remember being taught in the same classes that regular exercise was hugely important to a person’s overall health.  Why did so many people fall for the great Food Pyramid scam, but completely ignored the part about exercising?  Do we blindly follow whatever guidance the government tells us, or don’t we?

If we take the approach people as a group are always going to trend for the easiest path, or the path of least resistance, it’s because exercise is an active decision where as food purchasing is a passive decision. You’re going to be buying groceries, regardless. Not to mention the entire food industry really aligned behind the food pyramid and the later heart healthy nonsense.

It’s easy to go, oh I need to buy this because it’s health food, when in reality it’s jam packed with processed sugar.

But again I’ll point to the Biggest Loser Study. Dieting “the correct way” has a habit of wrecking your metabolism and making it hard, if not impossible, to get where you want to be.

There are much easier ways to go about it.

Ok, but it’s hard not to see the whole Keto thing as an almost cult-like phenomenon.  It’s such an emotional issue for keto bros, and the need to preach it to everyone whether they ask for it or not is weird.  It is clearly an effective weight loss strategy, but for most people, it is unsustainable and will only ever be a short-term answer.  

People taking the path of least resistance is not something that should be blamed on the government.  I think that everyone with anything close to a normal level of intelligence knows that eating too much, eating crappy food, and not exercising leads to being fat.  For most people, avoiding being fat will require some combination of exercise and a healthy diet.  In other words, self-discipline.  A lot of people don’t want to/aren’t willing to do that, so it makes them feel better to blame the government, Big Food, HFCS, or whatever else for their state.  Maintaining physical fitness is work.

I am amused by the "eat what our ancestors ate" responses. Yes, eliminate processed foods and sugars. Don't eat anything with high fructose corn syrup. If you are going full ancestor then stop eating fast foods, drink only water, stop the take out, pizza, burgers, pasta, and going out to eat entirely. Also, stop drinking beer, which is high carb. Cut out a lot of your daily calories. If you can do all that and still have diabetes then it is not your diet.

Keep in mind is not as though our ancestors had the amount of protein available to them on a daily basis as we do. They were significantly under the protein curve. Which is why if you look at clothes from the say around the civil war and even into the 1940s and 1950s- they look almost like children's clothes today. Men's waist sizes were 32" and under. Many were gaunt people that went to bed hungry, unless they were on the upper end of society, they could afford meals like we have every day.

Photos of my grandparents and their brothers and sisters when they were teenagers, as well as their parents, are all of thin people without fat, but no huge muscle mass either. My grandparents grew up without nearly as much animal protein as we have available now. Probably one day for us was a weeks worth for them.

That’s a BINGO!

People over-eat & over-drink carbs.  Our bodies turn carbs into fat.

That’s an interesting point.  I remember a school assignment where I interviewed my grandmother about her life growing up.  She told me about the depression, and the family (her mother, father and 6 kids) subsisting for long periods of time with their main meal being sandwiches made on bread that her mother baked, raw potato slices, and occasionally some white sugar sprinkled on top.  I’ve seen a lot of pictures of the family; they definitely weren’t fat.

Nobody told people to drink 6 soft drinks a day, and nobody in the medical community, contrary to some of the posters, said that the calories in pop tarts is the same as calories in, say apples, or couscous.

People came to that conclusion on their own. I was raised in the era of "food groups" and having a scale in your bathroom and using it. I never subscribed to the food pyramid

Keto is almost certainly a cult.

When conceptualizing weight loss it should be looked at as tools in the toolbox. Being scared of carbohydrates limits your metabolic flexibility, and half the people doing it just use it as an excuse to eat a bunch of fake fat shit without addressing the underlying addiction issues.

For strict weight loss I’d rather do fasting and carnivore.

Someone I argued with nailed it, for the most part when it comes to a lifestyle of it. Just avoid processed food, eat primarily meat, and you’ll be fine. Although I’d add in shrink the eating window, don’t snack, and avoid any kind of seed oils. If you have serious addiction issues just stick to OMAD.

At the end of the day obesity is almost always a hormone and addiction issue. The two are a negative feedback loop that are linked. Overcoming the hormones can help overcome the addiction aspect.

I would argue high sugar sodas and drinks are one of the most dangerous things we actually have as people have them in between meals, not even allowing their glucose levels to come down.



Yet diet soda and zero calories soda still exists, but most people don’t understand the concept of Insulin, even those with diabetes.

And you’re actually wrong to some extent. Sodas were advertised as a meal replacement alongside the mentality of eating smaller meals throughout the day for health.

TLDR: exactly this.



I first realized what "keto" diet was when I radically changed my diet and found that it a profound effect on the inflammation from arthritis. I thought it was because of my diet that pretty much eliminated all starchy foods and sugar.

Then I discovered the keto thread. It started out as such a positive thing. It was weird though that the people doing it in the thread were eschewed all vegetables, deeming anything that wasn't greasy as inappropriate on the diet. I was in ketosis and consuming a variety of healthy whole foods.

I noticed another trend as time went on, the people "fell off the wagon". Even though they lost a bunch of weight, had to get new clothes, they got to a point where they gained the weight back and more.

If you peruse the keto thread, you can see that it's a documentary of failure. The people replaced one diet with another one, the goal being "eating all you want".

Heck, look at the other diet threads. Look at the diet suggestions from the arf gluttons. The "diets" are mostly tons of greasy meat, with more grease added! It's nuts!

It's no different than the low fat, high carb, eat all you want diet, with the people using it as a way to "eat all they want". They could choose to consume things like leafy greens, broccoli, blueberries, but food isn't even referred to as the name of the food anymore, it's all ribs, bacon, and "carbs".

Frequently there are "recipes" to mimic regular non keto food. One big emphasis is how the high grease diet is "easy" and you can "eat all you want".

Which is why I think it seems to fail, in practically every instance. You can tell by the language people use, that this is going to happen. They make reference to a "wagon" that they fall off of and must get back on.

I think the language is the key. When someone uses words like"wagon" and "cheat" it's because to that person, it was acceptable to get over 100lbs overweight to begin with, that's why they do easily become 100lbs overweight again.

So now I avoid using the phrase "keto diet", especially around my physicians, because it conjures up the concept of someone gorging on bacon and ribs and avoiding anything else.

What people are referring to as a "keto diet" is mostly a high grease low fiber and nutrient diet. Over time, this is going to prove to be as bad as the food pyramid people hate. It's still not a balanced diet, the emphasis isn't on health, it's on "eating all you want" and how "easy" this is because you are "never hungry".

One particularly humorous thing I've noticed is that when someone is trying to lose weight and their grease diet isn't working, there is a chorus of "eat more fat!". because you know, the lard ass trying to lose weight doesn't already have enough fat stores to use up.

I mean, look at it! The high fat cult is no different than the low fat cult! There's smidgens of truth in each group, but what's in common is the "eat as much as you want" and the phenomena of referring to food as a macro.

Also - blueberries and vegetables will not kill you or make you fat. You need fiber.

Agree with most of what you said except fiber.

Can you really blame people at a certain point? There’s billions of dollars in advertising spent every year from companies like Coca Cola and fast food companies, plus all the various snack brands and shit.

Society as a whole has everyone in its sights to promote a heavily consumerist lifestyle. For a lot of people, complete changing their diet also results in them having to change friend groups and the way they interact with others.

I was having a really good discussion on this yesterday with someone, and I think so much of it comes down to truly, how many options do average people get to exercise each day? If you’re just going to work and doing your job, things you can decide are basically your meals. That’s the extent of the freedom you can exercise, which will probably lead to a lot of your dopamine coming from those actions.

“Oh, I’m having a shitty day already, let me stop by Starbucks”
“Oh that meeting was terrible I want to get out of this place for lunch”
“Man I had a terrible day but Im gonna treat myself”

Then comes out the billions of dollars in advertising just waiting for you to slip up. And once you make one bad decision, it’s a lot easier to rationalize more of them.

Also, notice that one of the features of modern mindset in the country is the fear of being "too skinny"

Peruse the diet threads, hambeasts start to lose weight, and they immediately state that they don't want to get "too skinny"

Not only that, but when other hambeasts state that the former hambeast is "too skinny", they purposely gain weight back.

Honestly, it just sounds like you are making excuses and/or looking for someone else to blame.  It takes commitment and work.  People with jobs can stay in shape too, they don’t have to be overweight.  Get up earlier and work out.  Do it on your lunch break.  If you can’t do that and all you can decide on is your meals, then make better decisions on your meals.  Eat less.  Eat better.  Take responsibility for yourself.  A lot of people just won’t do that, and it isn’t anyone else’s fault.  

I’m not talking about myself, I’m talking about the average person. I’m not saying they aren’t ultimately to blame, I’m just saying we as a society have to figure this shit out as a whole.

Responsibility is absolutely right, but we live in a culture that is anti responsibility. But even worse than that is equipping people with the wrong tools.

A lot of the modern advice given is the equivalent of sending someone into battle with a squirt gun.

If you aren't talking about yourself, I guess I'm not sure that I understand your deep attachment to this topic.  Are you overweight, or were you before?  Are you on Ozempic or a similar drug for weight loss?  Are you a keto (or other similar low/no carb) diet proponent?  Have you lost a lot of weight with that diet and now feel like you have to tell everyone that they should do the same thing?  Who is equipping these people with the wrong tools?  What are the right tools, and who should be responsible for equipping them?  

As a side note, I could not tell you the last time I saw an advertisement for soda.

It’s all a choice and being responsible. There’s no reason you can’t eat healthy. Does it mean a change in lifestyle? Sure. I mean I don’t drink but still manage to hangout with friends that do . I don’t eat shit yet manage to find healthy things to eat when I go out with friends. People are lazy as fuck and want the easy life. The end result is fat people with a million excuses why they can’t eat right or workout and it’s everyone’s fault except their own.

So the early Survivor diet?