I have no real understanding of what happened in South Africa, but as a tangent, there was a very large Jewish population in South Africa.  Most left in the 90's.  

I hear the stories about what a paradise SA was and how quickly it fell apart for everyone, black and white,  when Apartheid ended.  

I met some people that had lived in South Africa and left when things started heading south. If I remember correctly, they said that the people that had farms lived in fear for their lives and did not dare leave their farms for any extended period of time. The blacks would take over the farms and they would never get them back. The problem was (among many problems...) was that they didn't know how to maintain any of the machinery on the farms and everything just went to seed. Working farms started falling left and right. No farms, less food.

They were going to do Marxism the right way, though. The previous failed Marxist states just hadn't had the right controls, goals, measures and people in place.  "But *this time* we will do it right!"

so its like Tulsa....without the walled compounds.

they can't because of the adults mowing grass.

my son is 15 and has been mowing different lawns since he was 10. he has door handle flyers and offers professional services including flower bed work. most people either cant afford the work or they have told him that they have a man who does it and needs the money. ( adults working jobs that teens use too). he was up to 10 lawns a couple of years ago charging 1/2-1/3 of what lawn care companies charged and he only does a few now because it was so tough trying to get business. he is now working as a Life Guard.

many adult owned lawn care companies have come to my son's clients and inquired who was doing the work because it was excellent and they have been shocked to find out some 12-13 year old was doing it.

I think another thing is the fact people are scared of liability issues of having a kid mowing grass that might get hurt on their property. things have changed in society and they will never go back.

for 3 years the boy had it made.. he mowed the rent houses for 5-6 hot TU coeds, they would bring him sweet tea and peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and would be laying out in the sun half the time when he went over to mow. one drove a jeep wrangler and would take him to Sonic for slushes and corndogs.

- he was living the dream of a 13 year old.
now as a 15 year old, he has to remind the MILF's at the pool they need sunscreen or tanning lotion or they are gonna burn.

Sounds like Flint, MI.

From your beak to God's ears, that's the truth in gd.

Ah, but you have the advantage of the Magic Potion!









 

this exactly. I lived in Johannesburg from 89 to 99 and my experiences mirror these.

to add, I fell in love with a Colored girl (mulatto) from Cape Town. After we were married I had to get permission from the written police chief and written permission from my landlord to let her move into my apartment. she has stories that mirror  40's or 50's America.  riding at the back of the bus (or the upstairs on double-deckers), seperate drinking fountains, etc. she struggled for a long time about her self worth after being told that she was worthless by society.

that said, the "death by 1000" cuts is accurate, and we have family in SA, but would never go back now. it's so out of hand.
for my entire time there, we both concealed carried. I couldn't imagine going out without a gun. my understanding is that now that's not much of an option and if I went back, I'd likely not be allowed to carry. I wouldn't want to have to explain to an SA court why I shot a black man today either.

Mandela isn't the saint people make him out to be, but the ANC was surprisingly decent as long as he was strong enough to run it. that said "eating the seed corn" sums up SA under mandela and now, but now they're starting to see the results of it.

what a shame, because it was an absolutely amazing place to live. threats of violence aside.

Check out Gunsite South Africa forums, they can conceal carry handguns, own military rifles ect. You just have to get the license to do so. They get into stuff a lot down there.

http://www.gunsite.co.za/content/

Thanks for sharing. I have an Afrikaner friend whose family basically abandoned everything they had and fled in the 90s after premeditated attacks on family members. From his stories, they were not rich by any measure but still left a home and funds they were not allowed to transfer out of the country. What really bothers him is that he considers himself to be a "native" African as much as any other African. He was born there, as were his ancestors. His family had fought and died for South Africa. They had toiled to work the land and build a nation. Their bodies were created by Africa and were returned to Africa in their graves. He doesn't disagree that SA needed to evolve beyond Apartheid but he resents that the rest of the World who holds "minority rights" as a sacred cow everywhere else felt they had the right to judge South Africa. He saw his "tribe" and their interests no different that those of any other tribal faction. He now lives in the Caribbean where he seems to fit right in with other transplanted African cultures. He doesn't judge people by their skin tone (at least I never see it) which is why I think he doesn't fully understand what the World's condemnation of South Africa was all about.

So true. When I was 12yo, I wanted to buy a Marlin .22.  My Father said "maybe" but I had to EARN the money. I skimmed pools, mowed lawns and made sacrifices to save up the $49.95 for that gun.

Too many American kids today value nothing because we give them everything.

Does that make them wrong, factually or morally?


No, I have no opened the link.

The Mandelas must have been pissed they weren't able to sell SA's nuclear weapons.

I think the upper 1% of politicians would like to bring that sort of "Apartheid" retribution to America as well.

They started in Detroit, Ferguson and Gary and a few other inner cities, and are working it into the social narrative.

The trouble with Africa, is all the Africans. (not the color of their skin, but the culture or lack there of, compatible with western culture)

Not much different here. More than 150 years on, and we're still dealing with the after effects of slavery



 

No.


American history when it comes to African Americans is far worse than the system that South Africa had created that was largely unpopular.



SA didn't create the ANC, the communists did and America backed them by leveraging proxy wars both physically and financially by restricting trade and tariffs.

lol


Ye who casts stones shouldn't live in glass houses.



Americans treated Blacks far worse then SA ever did.

One thing you should point out is that the "servants" are actually just paid positions of household chores.  No different than hiring cleaning services here, hiring an au-pair, or simply getting a lawn guy to cut your lawn.


Most large homes provided condos for helpers including paid food, paid electricity, telephone, etc.   Basically you lived on the property and you got paid.  It usually was a complete suite with bathroom, bedrooms, kitchens, etc.




Yes you are correct about the killing part and also are correct about the stealing part.    They steal you shit like crazy despite you paying them and providing them with their own apartment/condo.   They wont kill their employers but they will certainly conspire with others to have them do it for you.

When you let the inmates run the asylum, you get what you have in SA now...a shithole.

Sorry to say, but it took Europeans to make Africa into anything beyond a tribal third world shithole, and without European rule, it is back to where it started....

Let it burn.

The system of apartheid created the ANC. As well, the ANC is older than the SACP and predates the formation of the Soviet Union by a decade. The ANC is allied with the SACP through the Tripartite Alliance.  ANC gained support because SA treated a segment of their population as "others" and that they didn't belong in South Africa.

Agreed, its just sad to see the remaining Europeans have to suffer through it, we should be letting this people into the US however with our current president letting in "evil white racists" by mass would never fly.

 

There is a community in a remote area that is on private land and run completely by whites, rule is cant have non whites work for you either so it doesnt breed jealously and end up like the current situation.

Ive been there several times. What they say is apartheid is something they inherited from British colonialism and simply didnt know what to do about it because the black power bases were part of world communism and they were deep into fighting a war to stop the spread of communism in Rhodesia. They hate the British because they then went all UN on them and forced them into economic crisis instead of them allowing them to work the problem out themselves.

What they really hate is western hypocrisy. No matter what country your from the odds are that your living with people of your same color, most of all America, send your kids to schools of the same color "mostly", and avoid black areas because of the crime rates. "We" are basically "them" although I think Americans are more comfortable interacting with other races because of our constitution. Even still we are hypocritical little shits. How many Lilly white snowflake Americans really know what its like to survive in inner city black areas? I only know cause Im an inner city Policeman and its obvious to me the species Homo Sapien is tribal in nature.

So I'd call racism and race more of a tribal/cultural thing and that we only use skin color to describe it because we want to think were smart and always want to be in control and able to explain stuff. The fact is there was no easy way to fix what was wrong in RSA just like there was no easy way to fix what was wrong with America. If you think generational welfare/crime is a way to "fix" shit then your insane. If anything its only made things worse. Like it has in RSA. Still the system of apartheid had some real evil Laws written to enforce it. "Nazi'like" in nature. But do remember the rest of the western world didnt force an end to it until the Cold War was over because we considered the RSA to be a bulwark against communism spreading in the vastly resource rich South of Africa. Again with the "hypocrites".

But what was the option? I dont know but certainly Jim Crow and/or Apartheid wasnt and isnt. It violates the basic tenants of out Constitution. The reality is RSA was once a beautiful accomplished country that once held most of its citizens in thrall. During my visits thru the years Ive seen it steadily crumble. Its obvious in the state of its infrastructure and the fact that every house and business has alarms, barbed wire, and dogs protecting it. When I first went in the late '90s I went into the bathroom at J-burg with my luggage and legally strapped on my .45 for protection. Since then there has been a steadily tightening of gun Laws, I doubt you could do that now.

Add to that they have an open border policy to the rest of Africa. And as bad as RSA is its still the richest country in Africa so the rest of southern Africa try's to get there to find work, or to steal. Mugabe's thugs destroyed Zim and that hasnt helped matters, even worse it increased white flight because if Mugabe could steal everything whitey owns and then kick them out, without world sanction, then RSA could. The citizens of RSA want to live the way they want to live with people they want to be with, how different is that from us? Most dont even remember apartheid anymore.

Another thing, as you drive thru the country you see the power and influence mining corporations have on the place. I really doubt those mining corporations are South African only. If even the majority are. Big business is always the hidden power behind cheap Labor, low wages, illegal immigration, and stability thru any means. They simply "buy" the Politicians needed to do it all.

Still I found the people hopeful, in fact all of Africa is, despite their woes. The place has an energy to it and I'd love to visit and hunt all of stable Africa if I could. I'd go back to RSA, they have a cultural history of being wonderful to visitors and tourists. They are very hospitable. I dont go there to visit cities, and believe me "theirs" arent all that different from ours.

 
Very accurate account.  What troubles me is what I am seeing in this country the the BLM movement.  We could be headed down the same road as South Africa.    

 

This

Tag

Oh great, you read a book.


Good for you.



Next time your boots are on the ground you let me know.

My parents served as Mormon missionaries there in 2003-2004.  One of their stories stuck with me:

There was a man in the neighborhood around the church who was well-known as a carjacker who would not hesitate to kill someone who didn't comply fast enough.  He stole the car of the other couple serving there as they were going into the gated compound that the church is on, walked up with a gun and pointed it in the mans face and told him to get out, which he and his wife did.

How would a well-known carjacking murderer not be captured and imprisoned, at the very least?  Well, the death penalty was abolished by the government after the first election when Mandela was elected.  Sentences for murder are apparently very short, so the man was convicted and then let go in a short period of time.  The police have trouble catching him in the first place as many of them don't even have a drivers license.

--------------------------

Mandela did do something which helped avert a bloodbath.  The Truth and Reconciliation Committee was largely an effort to prevent having to jail or execute most of the ANC leaders, including his ex-wife, for their crimes.  Yet it also allowed the law enforcement officials from the Apartheid regime to speak truthfully about what went on and then go on with life.  If they have done what has been done in the past then there would have been a slaughter of whites in the color of law which would have allowed a slaughter of their families by those in the ANC who felt that they would not be safe from retaliation as long as the families of those executed might want to take revenge (or their crimes came back to roost after they left power).

Same is pretty much true here.  When they write the epitaph to our civilization it will say: "Here lies Western Civilization.  It was unequaled in art, culture, music, economics, warfare, and freedom.  It died in order to increase shareholder profits 0.5%"

 

It was a terrible system, that has been replaced by one that is even worse.

I have posted before that I worked with a lot of Afrikaner's in Iraq.

Their back ground was working in LE in SA.

All where K9 handlers back home at one point or another. We where all hired to fulfill a contract in Iraq working as armed K9 handlers supporting the US Army. They all had plans to contract for a few years to save $ so they could get their families out of SA.
.
My friends had some stories. Most said they got In less shootings in Iraq then did on the streets of SA. They had some unbelievable stories of savagery committed by what had to be pure evil back when they where cops. The few I worked with on a regular bases said they where in the process of getting their families out of SA and that's why they where in Iraq to make enough $$$ to do so. Most wanted to come to the States but they said the process was almost a lost cause and most had given up coming here and where trying to go to Europe, England or Australia.

Each one said they where working on getting out, only way to ensure the future of their families was to move to another country.

They all felt there was no way to fix SA at this point. It was to far gone to ever revers the crime and institutional racism perpetrated by the SAG. They said they have to live behind walls with razor wire and armed guards. Most told me it would be just a matter of time before they would lose a loved one to violent crime if they hadn't already..

Each one said they where let go as police officer's gradually because they where white and replaced by people that had 0 experience and most of the time could not read or write. I think most took jobs in security and when the Iraq war kicked of most if they could took contracts.

They told of weekly shoot outs and sometimes daily ones with violent criminals. A few where investigators and after some stories they told me I would have to think they had some form of PTSD having to see and deal with such horrible acts of savagery against woman and children on a daily bases.

All of them where very concerned about going home when the contract was over. SA passed a law to include security contracting as a form of mercenary work while they where in country in 2005. The few that had their $ in SA banks could have the accounts frozen / confiscated and upon arriving back home could have been arrested.

I wonder where SA would be if our government would have helped stop communism in Africa instead of helping it take over Rhodesia and SA  

Unfortunately I lost contact with the few guys I had contact info for years ago do to mu computer crashing

Your wife could be a relative of my supervisor's neighbor. HE decided it was time to sell his land and home and leave the country when he drove past his neighbor's house and saw everybody's heads on sticks.

Well, there is a small glimmer of hope.

 

Just had a teenage black male asknof he could cut my grass. He had his own mower and weed eater. He said he'd do it for $40. I told him I'd think about it.


He gone door to door before asking. We currently have a gardener that does our yard for $65. But he has a professional rig. His kid just has a push mower and weed eater.


But he has spunk and is trying to do right. I might give him the job just because of that.

exactly, almost word for word with what I wrote.
my son cuts lawns in Midtown Tulsa for $25 that most people charge $50 for and does 2x the job, but choose an adult who cuts grass 90%.

Thank you for this.

Exactly why I come to this forum.

Petty Apartheid was fucking cruel and evil. Grand Apartheid wasn't. This goes against American Principles but not everyone is ready for Freedom and Liberty. Some must be ruled much like how children are ruled. Because if left to their own devices, they will destroy themselves.

Rhodesia had a better system in place than RSA did. The abuse of blacks was fucked up. But they weren't the original settlers of the area.

That sounds like a dissenting opinion, are you a liberal?

Been a member there for a while

 

 

Our founders spoke about the type of people for whom our Constitutional system was tailored.


We are no longer that type of people.


Luckily for us, the constitution is dead.



But yes, I believe there are some people who need to be ruled.


I believe the majority of America are these type of people now.


We need to settle on a definition of "yeomanry" here in America and follow the founders guidance: put them in charge and ignore everyone else until this thing is turned around.


IMO.

Serious question:  Your wife was very fond of the people who would steal anything from her?

Imported communist invaders

Shame he did not use any.  People need to quit trying to equate what happened in Rhodesia and RSA to the civil rights movement in America.  Tribalism is a vicious thing and thats what RSA and Rhodesia have been experencing . Unchecked tribalism thanks to communists and bleeding hearts.

This is what tribalism and solicalism does. Brings everyone down to the same shitty level.

That's just how things were in South Africa, it's how they had always been. The blacks of South Africa had nothing. They were very poor, they were kept from seeing their own families, they were  given restrictive passbooks that prevented freedom of movement. They had nothing. Even though the blacks who worked for my wife's family were paid, it wasn't much. The things they took were trivial; sugar, flour, other little things that they needed. The white families just accepted that that was the way it was.  

My wife wanted me to clarify that the leaky apartment their servants lived in was a nice little place, and her dad did what he could to keep it comfortable. But that roof was a problem that he kept having to fix. And the condition was only as good as the residents kept it.

One other thing she wanted me to correct: she attended a Catholic school which I said had no black students. In fact, this school, Parktown Convent, did have one black student, and it was the first white school in South Africa to have a black student. It was a pretty big deal back then.

My wife and her family looked upon the thefts and the damage with acceptance and understanding. Considering what life was like for the blacks of South Africa, they felt this was a small price for them personally to pay. Keep in mind, my wife grew up with the same people around. The inside and outside staff were basically the same for her entire life. These were people who watched out for her and looked after her and her siblings. They were more than just employees. The relationship was complicated but essentially warm.

Watch the Bang Bang Club

Worked with an Indian from SA, she grew up in the same kind of mansion as Whites and went to a private school. One of her classmates was black and had a scholarship to get an education. Others from his township murdered him because he was getting an education. SMH

 
A lot of Americans see the issues in South Africa as if they were the same as the Civil Rights issues in the United States. The thing is, the RSA was not the US nor were the people there under a similar situation.




Petty Apartheid was wrong. Grand Apartheid was not. Tribalism, Socialism, and general issues of culture are the problems over there. The Boers and English made it a prosperous productive country. The massive influx of sub-Saharan blacks into the RSA as a source of cheap labor was the partial downfall of South Africa. Those migrant labourers brought with them issues of culture, lack of education and tribalism. Some became prosperous productive educated citizens while the majority were much like their forefathers and other than being useful as manual labor. Brought nothing to the country.




Once again I say this and it goes against American principles. Not everyone is ready for Independence liberty and freedom. Some groups of people if left to their own devices will destroy themselves. They are like children playing with fire.... if left alone they will burn themselves.