User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 1:08:46 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I really hope it eventually supports OpenXR, but that's not why I got one. I use a Pimax Crystal for flight sim stuff. the iPad is vastly different today than what it was envisioned during development. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 1:13:20 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We'll see what the future holds. the iPad is vastly different today than what it was envisioned during development. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I really hope it eventually supports OpenXR, but that's not why I got one. I use a Pimax Crystal for flight sim stuff. the iPad is vastly different today than what it was envisioned during development. You don’t have to convince me - I’m “all in” on it as a market segment. I managed to convince my employer to buy me one. It hasn’t come in yet (scheduled Feb 26 - Mar 4) but my personal plan for it is to do everything I can to develop apps for the platform while it’s still immature. I’ll let you guys throw your billions at marketing it, and with any luck, by the time the second or third version is released I’ll be established in one or more categories in the visionOS App Store. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 1:16:20 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We'll see what the future holds. the iPad is vastly different today than what it was envisioned during development. I still don't think Meta/Facebook is all that fond of the idea of PC linking given that it allows people to circumvent their App Store in favor of alternatives, but they've also positioned themselves into having that functionality be a primary selling point. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 1:16:28 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You don't have to convince me - I'm "all in" on it as a market segment. I managed to convince my employer to buy me one. It hasn't come in yet (scheduled Feb 26 - Mar 4) but my personal plan for it is to do everything I can to develop apps for the platform while it's still immature. I'll let you guys throw your billions at marketing it, and with any luck, by the time the second or third version is released I'll be established in one or more categories in the visionOS App Store. I built as much into the OS to give you guys as much play space as possible (within the price target) |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 1:16:42 PM EDT
[#5]
I don't even have a cheap VR headset.
I'll probably be a crotchety old man about this kind of tech, it doesn't seem very appealing. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 1:18:14 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You don’t have to convince me - I’m “all in” on it as a market segment. I managed to convince my employer to buy me one. It hasn’t come in yet (scheduled Feb 26 - Mar 4) but my personal plan for it is to do everything I can to develop apps for the platform while it’s still immature. I’ll let you guys throw your billions at marketing it, and with any luck, by the time the second or third version is released I’ll be established in one or more categories in the visionOS App Store. You did a better job than the devs at my place.  "We, uh, could, uh, use it as monitors or something." - a quote from a meeting with one of the said developers. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 1:21:14 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Flex/Brag thread. I have much better things to waste $3500 on. Glad you're in the 1%, OP. Want to share the wealth? Get that commie talk out of here. Disgusting. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 1:27:02 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Get that commie talk out of here. Disgusting. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Flex/Brag thread. I have much better things to waste $3500 on. Glad you're in the 1%, OP. Want to share the wealth? Get that commie talk out of here. Disgusting. Lol. Don't worry, I waste plenty of my own money, and don't share any of it, just like a good capitalist should. It's Apple though. Everyone knew it would be wildly overpriced. In a year there will be better products from other companies for less than half. The bleeding edge isn't for us poors.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 1:36:55 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Apple Vision links to PC are still in a proof of concept/development phase so you may need to wait awhile before it's good enough for something as demanding as Flight Simulator. Flight Simulator with VR is awesome though. It's really an experience you need to try even if it's not 'perfect'. The hand controls aren't all there yet but it's serviceable. I'm hoping Flight Simulator 2024 really builds on what they've done. I've had a Reverb G2 for a year, and it's really cool. The lack of haptic control of my hardware is a problem, so I tend to gravitate towards my 2D cockpit. I fly some fairly complex planes, and I really need to be able to push buttons on my Streamdecks to manage them. VR is OK for sightseeing in a simple plane, though. Actually, it is pretty damn cool. I haven't done more than a couple of test flights, though, for the reason listed above. ETA: I'm pretty pissed that Microsoft is deprecating WMR in the 24H2 update due this September. Which means my G2 will effectively become a brick if I'm ever forced into that update. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 1:39:30 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Unless someone designs a software package that does flight sim (and they might) it's not going to do it. I won't say anything is "off the table" since we're only at version 1 of the software I will say those asking for it to be connected to a PC and this and that, it's not likely to happen. it was specifically designed to be a stand alone device. Much the same way an iPad or a phone is a standalone device. where this would really shine in Flight sim is simulating something like the F-35 helmet. Where you have physical controls in a "cockpit" then have the Vision Pro Display the world view thru the "helmet view. Absolutely. Flying an F-35 with all the sensor data feeding into that helmet has got to be pretty damn close to orgasmic. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 1:45:34 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You did a better job than the devs at my place. "We, uh, could, uh, use it as monitors or something." - a quote from a meeting with one of the said developers. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You don’t have to convince me - I’m “all in” on it as a market segment. I managed to convince my employer to buy me one. It hasn’t come in yet (scheduled Feb 26 - Mar 4) but my personal plan for it is to do everything I can to develop apps for the platform while it’s still immature. I’ll let you guys throw your billions at marketing it, and with any luck, by the time the second or third version is released I’ll be established in one or more categories in the visionOS App Store. You did a better job than the devs at my place. "We, uh, could, uh, use it as monitors or something." - a quote from a meeting with one of the said developers. Oh, I did my research. I started by talking to our CFO. Sold him on the idea that I would be willing to accept it in lieu of a portion of an upcoming cash bonus - and that it could remain company property as long as we put it in writing that ownership transfers to me upon termination of employment. That lets the depreciate it as a capital expense. Between that and employment taxes, they end up saving ~$1.5k in taxes alone. Then I sold the CTO on the idea that someone here should get one, if only because it’s likely to be an emerging market and we should investigate how we could use it to establish ourselves there and turn it into a moat against our competitors. Finally I sold it to our “product” people. Our primary product is a mental healthcare telehealth platform. I found studies proposing the use of digital avatars in traditional therapy settings as a way to help people with social anxiety issues. Most importantly, I didn’t actually ask for it. All of the above were just conversations with various people I know, and what do you know - it ended up being brought up at an executive retreat last month. Everyone who would normally have shot the idea down immediately had already given it some thought, and had at least some reason to see it a beneficial. Who says engineers don’t have soft skills? 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 1:49:43 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Absolutely. Flying an F-35 with all the sensor data feeding into that helmet has got to be pretty damn close to orgasmic. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Unless someone designs a software package that does flight sim (and they might) it's not going to do it. I won't say anything is "off the table" since we're only at version 1 of the software I will say those asking for it to be connected to a PC and this and that, it's not likely to happen. it was specifically designed to be a stand alone device. Much the same way an iPad or a phone is a standalone device. where this would really shine in Flight sim is simulating something like the F-35 helmet. Where you have physical controls in a "cockpit" then have the Vision Pro Display the world view thru the "helmet view. Absolutely. Flying an F-35 with all the sensor data feeding into that helmet has got to be pretty damn close to orgasmic. Something like this, maybe?  War Thunder Air Sim: Mirage F1C-200 vs. two Phantoms I was flying a Mirage F1C-200 in that clip, which doesn’t have an HMD. I have several planes in War Thunder that do, though, and it’s pretty incredible. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 1:59:04 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've had a Reverb G2 for a year, and it's really cool. The lack of haptic control of my hardware is a problem, so I tend to gravitate towards my 2D cockpit. I fly some fairly complex planes, and I really need to be able to push buttons on my Streamdecks to manage them. VR is OK for sightseeing in a simple plane, though. Actually, it is pretty damn cool. I haven't done more than a couple of test flights, though, for the reason listed above. ETA: I'm pretty pissed that Microsoft is deprecating WMR in the 24H2 update due this September. Which means my G2 will effectively become a brick if I'm ever forced into that update. That update is going to screw a lot of people out of still good hardware, and while I get Microsoft no longer has anyone interested in creating new hardware for it it's a pretty awful slap in the face to outright disable it. I'd agree that the current implementation in FS2020 really lends it well to the sight seeing flights over maximum realism. I've tried so hard to use the hand controls for knobs and I always find myself just grabbing a joystick shortcut or even just the mouse to click on the button. Taking off in a Cessna from the local airport for the first time in VR is an experience I'm not sure I can ever really top. Having done a similar flight in the exact same plane it really tricked the brain into thinking it was 'real' for a bit as the plane lifted off the runway. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 2:04:44 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh, I did my research. I started by talking to our CFO. Sold him on the idea that I would be willing to accept it in lieu of a portion of an upcoming cash bonus - and that it could remain company property as long as we put it in writing that ownership transfers to me upon termination of employment. That lets the depreciate it as a capital expense. Between that and employment taxes, they end up saving ~$1.5k in taxes alone. Then I sold the CTO on the idea that someone here should get one, if only because it’s likely to be an emerging market and we should investigate how we could use it to establish ourselves there and turn it into a moat against our competitors. Finally I sold it to our “product” people. Our primary product is a mental healthcare telehealth platform. I found studies proposing the use of digital avatars in traditional therapy settings as a way to help people with social anxiety issues. Most importantly, I didn’t actually ask for it. All of the above were just conversations with various people I know, and what do you know - it ended up being brought up at an executive retreat last month. Everyone who would normally have shot the idea down immediately had already given it some thought, and had at least some reason to see it a beneficial. Who says engineers don’t have soft skills? If they were more creative with their request they could absolutely have pitched a bare bones product idea and likely gotten one to test out the idea. They could have even pulled the classic "Well we don't have time now but if we have the [equipment] now we could potentially start working on it the moment we are free!".
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 2:08:05 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: right_rudder may (or may not) have been part of the development of this headset. I'm not sure I understand the context of his question though. He probably didn't want me misrepresenting the product. It's not literally see through. I would feel relatively safe using it in a short spurt in a self driving car for demonstration purposes. It goes without saying that you really shouldn't though, but sooner or later, society is going to deem self driving technology safe enough that I think we'll see regulations laxed, not that the majority seem to care now anyway, based on the amount of people that text and drive. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 2:09:34 PM EDT
[#16]
E&S was doing point of interest processing ~50 years ago. Go to 8 second mark. Watch the highlighted circle where the pilots' head is pointing. When high resolution processing was at a premium, the focused area got the bulk of resolution, allowing for the filler around it to be less focused, and still keep decent frame rates. Also, most of the field of view was raster video, and during vertical blanking for raster video, light points (runway lights, light beacons, etc.) were drawn caligraphically to remain super bright due to dwell time on the screen.
 Flight Simulation - history of E&S computer graphics |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 2:10:46 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh. He probably didn't want me misrepresenting the product. It's not literally see through. I would feel relatively safe using it in a short spurt in a self driving car for demonstration purposes. It goes without saying that you really shouldn't though, but sooner or later, society is going to deem self driving technology safe enough that I think we'll see regulations laxed, not that the majority seem to care now anyway, based on the amount of people that text and drive. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: right_rudder may (or may not) have been part of the development of this headset. I'm not sure I understand the context of his question though. He probably didn't want me misrepresenting the product. It's not literally see through. I would feel relatively safe using it in a short spurt in a self driving car for demonstration purposes. It goes without saying that you really shouldn't though, but sooner or later, society is going to deem self driving technology safe enough that I think we'll see regulations laxed, not that the majority seem to care now anyway, based on the amount of people that text and drive. I was giving ya a hard time out of boredom ETA: I'd feel safe on a casual drive. Maybe a Sunday morning on the backroads. it's not something I would recommend in rush hour traffic or at high speed on the interstate. The latency can vary a bit in certain situations and the last thing I'd want is for someone to be in a bad spot and have the headset slow down on them at the wrong time |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 2:22:21 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't even have a cheap VR headset. I'll probably be a crotchety old man about this kind of tech, it doesn't seem very appealing. I wasn’t that interested either, until I tried it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 2:30:50 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I play FS2020 a lot. I'd love to demo this thing to see how well it 'recreates' the peripherals in my cockpit. The ideal goal is to have a VR external world with the ability to reach out and manipulate things in the real world around me. Total game changer. I’d think the best way to achieve that with this tech would be to setup your cockpit with green screens so the AVP could display FS2020 on the green and leave your physical controls visible. The hardware appears capable of it, but getting somebody to program that capability for it… |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 2:32:38 PM EDT
[#20]
Does it have a camera and is it able to give you super vision day or night?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 2:35:18 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The latency isn't constant. The system can get in conditions where latency suffers (increases). |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 2:47:24 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: Does it have a camera and is it able to give you super vision day or night? Snap a picture.. what you have is a "black photo". technically, all the data captured by the CCD sensors are exactly the same as if you would have had the light on. it just takes a LOT of mathematical calculations to pull the image out of that black photo. Quoted: I wonder if the projector tech that used tiny little mirrors, could be used here, to solve the latency issue. 'True time' vision of outside surroundings going thru the 'mirrors' , with injected virtual reality. you have to take all the incoming data, process it and then 1) pass it onto the display(s) and 2) have the display(s) responsive enough to render it in as close to "real time" as possible. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 3:29:34 PM EDT
[#23]
Did a bit (lot) of research in FPV drones over the last 3 months. When it comes to racing - latency is important, but arguably fixed latency is also rather important. Of the 4 most common systems available right now - you have definite trade offs between resolution, quality, and latency (static and variable). I watched one video that the same top racer did the same course with essentially the same drone - but with a HD variable latency system and a lower resolution and quality fixed latency system. They were focusing on fastest lap time per battery. (IIRC) HD system on the first battery had about a 19 second best lap. Then he went to the fixed latency system and did a 12... He ran 3 more batteries on the HD system, and they were amazed that he eventually managed to do 2 12 second laps, then an 11. The only problem, by the 4th battery on the fixed latency system, he managed something like 4 9 second laps in a row. The pilot's analysis afterwards is sure, he could do a fast lap on the HD system - but the consistency of his races was MUCH better when latency did not vary.
Hard to say if it would make the same difference on a non-repetitive task (FPS against other live players). But back when I actually played FPS games against NPC's - they were largely repetitive tasks. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 4:11:25 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did a bit (lot) of research in FPV drones over the last 3 months. When it comes to racing - latency is important, but arguably fixed latency is also rather important. Of the 4 most common systems available right now - you have definite trade offs between resolution, quality, and latency (static and variable). I watched one video that the same top racer did the same course with essentially the same drone - but with a HD variable latency system and a lower resolution and quality fixed latency system. They were focusing on fastest lap time per battery. (IIRC) HD system on the first battery had about a 19 second best lap. Then he went to the fixed latency system and did a 12... He ran 3 more batteries on the HD system, and they were amazed that he eventually managed to do 2 12 second laps, then an 11. The only problem, by the 4th battery on the fixed latency system, he managed something like 4 9 second laps in a row. The pilot's analysis afterwards is sure, he could do a fast lap on the HD system - but the consistency of his races was MUCH better when latency did not vary. Hard to say if it would make the same difference on a non-repetitive task (FPS against other live players). But back when I actually played FPS games against NPC's - they were largely repetitive tasks. Certainly makes sense to me. Having a fixed higher latency would allow the pilot to make adjustments to their controls in a predictable fashion and at some point the delay would be baked into their muscle memory The variance in the latency would cause unpredictability and the drone pilot would never fully be able to master the controls as every input into the drone may have a different output. I should add, for the most part this is a whole bunch of nothing for what the intended use case of the AVP pass through is for. It's only when you are doing something on the dumber side of things that I'd really question if the risk is worth the small social media clout reward.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 4:25:57 PM EDT
[#25]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 4:30:01 PM EDT
[#26]
I really want one, but not at that price point.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 4:36:13 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wasn't that interested either, until I tried it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 4:42:35 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was giving ya a hard time out of boredom ETA: I'd feel safe on a casual drive. Maybe a Sunday morning on the backroads. it's not something I would recommend in rush hour traffic or at high speed on the interstate. The latency can vary a bit in certain situations and the last thing I'd want is for someone to be in a bad spot and have the headset slow down on them at the wrong time Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: right_rudder may (or may not) have been part of the development of this headset. I'm not sure I understand the context of his question though. He probably didn't want me misrepresenting the product. It's not literally see through. I would feel relatively safe using it in a short spurt in a self driving car for demonstration purposes. It goes without saying that you really shouldn't though, but sooner or later, society is going to deem self driving technology safe enough that I think we'll see regulations laxed, not that the majority seem to care now anyway, based on the amount of people that text and drive. I was giving ya a hard time out of boredom ETA: I'd feel safe on a casual drive. Maybe a Sunday morning on the backroads. it's not something I would recommend in rush hour traffic or at high speed on the interstate. The latency can vary a bit in certain situations and the last thing I'd want is for someone to be in a bad spot and have the headset slow down on them at the wrong time A long time ago someone working on the silicon but not the overall product was questioning why we were putting so much effort into ensuring the device continued to operate well and would not instantly shut off when the battery was low. After the normal answer of shipping the best product possible (and not wanting people to trip over their dog) I casually added that you know someone would try driving with it regardless of any warning we gave and that I would prefer to not see the press if they crashed because the battery died and the screen suddenly went black. That person swore you could always just plug it in and no one would be "dumb enough" to drive with it. I made sure he was the first person I forward the Twitter driving video to on launch day. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 4:44:48 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Certainly makes sense to me. Having a fixed higher latency would allow the pilot to make adjustments to their controls in a predictable fashion and at some point the delay would be baked into their muscle memory The variance in the latency would cause unpredictability and the drone pilot would never fully be able to master the controls as every input into the drone may have a different output. I should add, for the most part this is a whole bunch of nothing for what the intended use case of the AVP pass through is for. It's only when you are doing something on the dumber side of things that I'd really question if the risk is worth the small social media clout reward. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Did a bit (lot) of research in FPV drones over the last 3 months. When it comes to racing - latency is important, but arguably fixed latency is also rather important. Of the 4 most common systems available right now - you have definite trade offs between resolution, quality, and latency (static and variable). I watched one video that the same top racer did the same course with essentially the same drone - but with a HD variable latency system and a lower resolution and quality fixed latency system. They were focusing on fastest lap time per battery. (IIRC) HD system on the first battery had about a 19 second best lap. Then he went to the fixed latency system and did a 12... He ran 3 more batteries on the HD system, and they were amazed that he eventually managed to do 2 12 second laps, then an 11. The only problem, by the 4th battery on the fixed latency system, he managed something like 4 9 second laps in a row. The pilot's analysis afterwards is sure, he could do a fast lap on the HD system - but the consistency of his races was MUCH better when latency did not vary. Hard to say if it would make the same difference on a non-repetitive task (FPS against other live players). But back when I actually played FPS games against NPC's - they were largely repetitive tasks. Certainly makes sense to me. Having a fixed higher latency would allow the pilot to make adjustments to their controls in a predictable fashion and at some point the delay would be baked into their muscle memory The variance in the latency would cause unpredictability and the drone pilot would never fully be able to master the controls as every input into the drone may have a different output. I should add, for the most part this is a whole bunch of nothing for what the intended use case of the AVP pass through is for. It's only when you are doing something on the dumber side of things that I'd really question if the risk is worth the small social media clout reward. Sure, but AR as a technology would be very practical for lots of things where latency is currently an issue, even if it’s WAY better than it has been in the past. I’d love an AR motorcycle helmet that can display my route, be a HUD for my dash, be able to play music (and possibly a pass through mode like with AirPods), use ML to help ID & alert me to hazards, be able to answer & interact with my phone while it’s safely tucked in my luggage or clothes, act as a 360 dash cam, etc. I know there are some solutions out there that can do some of that, but honestly the AVP looks way more capable already if it wasn’t for the form factor & latency. Hell, it would even be cool as hell for playing certain sports. Give a AR football helmet to the QB and MLB of a NFL team instead of the speakers they currently have and let them have the power of machine learning & Next Gen Stats showing them graphics right on the field? It would be fun to see how that evolves the game. Hell, even a slightly less bulky AVP just for playing in my beer league softball would be awesome. I pitch & having a little heads up graphic floating above a batter telling me what pitches I threw him previously, what he made contact with & where it went, maybe even speed stats that would help with deciding which base runner to try & throw out, etc. And racing was already brought up, drone/auto/whatever. There’s always hope for the future, but the current implementation really does seem like just a slightly glorified monitor replacement. A really cool one, but still. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 4:45:58 PM EDT
[#30]
I don’t know why i’d want one .
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 4:47:59 PM EDT
[#31]
Also, have any owners in here messed with the spatial video yet?
My wife is a photographer/videographer and I’m thinking if these catch on then we might need to think about offering spatial content. We have iPhone 15’s so recording it isn’t problem, but I don’t have a AVP to view them on…yet. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 4:51:46 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol. Don't worry, I waste plenty of my own money, and don't share any of it, just like a good capitalist should. It's Apple though. Everyone knew it would be wildly overpriced. In a year there will be better products from other companies for less than half. The bleeding edge isn't for us poors. I'll take that bet. Let's define better now.  Three to five years from now possibly but by then Apple will have version IIe out. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 4:54:24 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/68059/IMG_1749_jpeg-3126232.JPG This is what we are becoming. It’s sad and terrifying. We were so obsessed with whether or not we could, we never paused to ask whether or not we should. I agree. Signed, A Pediatric Curmudgeon. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 5:00:51 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Something like this, maybe?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktoWuSOwo0MI was flying a Mirage F1C-200 in that clip, which doesn’t have an HMD. I have several planes in War Thunder that do, though, and it’s pretty incredible. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Unless someone designs a software package that does flight sim (and they might) it's not going to do it. I won't say anything is "off the table" since we're only at version 1 of the software I will say those asking for it to be connected to a PC and this and that, it's not likely to happen. it was specifically designed to be a stand alone device. Much the same way an iPad or a phone is a standalone device. where this would really shine in Flight sim is simulating something like the F-35 helmet. Where you have physical controls in a "cockpit" then have the Vision Pro Display the world view thru the "helmet view. Absolutely. Flying an F-35 with all the sensor data feeding into that helmet has got to be pretty damn close to orgasmic. Something like this, maybe? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktoWuSOwo0MI was flying a Mirage F1C-200 in that clip, which doesn’t have an HMD. I have several planes in War Thunder that do, though, and it’s pretty incredible. Yup, like that. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 5:25:47 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'll take that bet. Let's define better now. Three to five years from now possibly but by then Apple will have version IIe out. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Lol. Don't worry, I waste plenty of my own money, and don't share any of it, just like a good capitalist should. It's Apple though. Everyone knew it would be wildly overpriced. In a year there will be better products from other companies for less than half. The bleeding edge isn't for us poors. I'll take that bet. Let's define better now. Three to five years from now possibly but by then Apple will have version IIe out. I'd say we should go for a case of PMags, but we've all seen how THAT played out in the past.  I think I'll refrain from gambling on this one. ETA: Will the IIe be twice as expensive, incorporate titanium, and have no new useful features? 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 5:30:30 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you take your phone into a closet with no windows and turn off the light. Snap a picture.. what you have is a "black photo". technically, all the data captured by the CCD sensors are exactly the same as if you would have had the light on. it just takes a LOT of mathematical calculations to pull the image out of that black photo. Processing speed and bandwidth. you have to take all the incoming data, process it and then 1) pass it onto the display(s) and 2) have the display(s) responsive enough to render it in as close to "real time" as possible. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Does it have a camera and is it able to give you super vision day or night? Snap a picture.. what you have is a "black photo". technically, all the data captured by the CCD sensors are exactly the same as if you would have had the light on. it just takes a LOT of mathematical calculations to pull the image out of that black photo. Quoted: I wonder if the projector tech that used tiny little mirrors, could be used here, to solve the latency issue. 'True time' vision of outside surroundings going thru the 'mirrors' , with injected virtual reality. you have to take all the incoming data, process it and then 1) pass it onto the display(s) and 2) have the display(s) responsive enough to render it in as close to "real time" as possible. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 6:26:39 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd say we should go for a case of PMags, but we've all seen how THAT played out in the past. I think I'll refrain from gambling on this one. ETA: Will the IIe be twice as expensive, incorporate titanium, and have no new useful features? And come in RAINBOW titanium! I think Apple has some deep coolness going on here that's going to be hard to reproduce outside their sandbox. Owning the phone, desktop, and potentially watch and earbuds allows Apple to join those to the VR to do some cool Augmented reality. Imagine being able to pull up the router's performance live in a window, the firewall's in another, and the plant's WAN diagram in another while out in the plant troubleshooting one of those $250,000 an hour outages. I suppose an iPad could do that much, now have the software highlight the VM chassis that's the problem from the three rows 12 ranks across. The thing has at least the bandwidth for 4K video and video displays to match. Now link me in an IR and Thermal camera system, a GPS driven 3D terrain map allowing me to "see" through hills and such into the next valley's terrain features ... and fly a drone FPV style using my hands ... like I practiced as an eight year old hanging my hand out the window of mom's Mustang. Imagine Generation 3 stuff six years from now?  (Full disclosure I said the same thing about Beta HiFi tapes, 3D movies, and "over-the-top" TV systems and they failed)
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 6:28:56 PM EDT
[#38]
I wanted Google Glass to work too.
I had their VR goggles but when I dumped Google I dumped the glasses too.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 6:29:00 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'll take that bet. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 6:44:24 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A long time ago someone working on the silicon but not the overall product was questioning why we were putting so much effort into ensuring the device continued to operate well and would not instantly shut off when the battery was low. After the normal answer of shipping the best product possible (and not wanting people to trip over their dog) I casually added that you know someone would try driving with it regardless of any warning we gave and that I would prefer to not see the press if they crashed because the battery died and the screen suddenly went black. That person swore you could always just plug it in and no one would be "dumb enough" to drive with it. I made sure he was the first person I forward the Twitter driving video to on launch day. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 6:45:50 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Also, have any owners in here messed with the spatial video yet? My wife is a photographer/videographer and I'm thinking if these catch on then we might need to think about offering spatial content. We have iPhone 15's so recording it isn't problem, but I don't have a AVP to view them on yet. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 6:46:57 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I mean, mirrors, no actual digital processing, other than aiming them. Fish eye lens on fiber optics. Like high tech periscope blocks in armor. See thru screens with embedded vid or 3D imagery perhaps. Cool tech. Gonna be a trap for souls, though. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 6:46:58 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And come in RAINBOW titanium! I think Apple has some deep coolness going on here that's going to be hard to reproduce outside their sandbox. Owning the phone, desktop, and potentially watch and earbuds allows Apple to join those to the VR to do some cool Augmented reality. Imagine being able to pull up the router's performance live in a window, the firewall's in another, and the plant's WAN diagram in another while out in the plant troubleshooting one of those $250,000 an hour outages. I suppose an iPad could do that much, now have the software highlight the VM chassis that's the problem from the three rows 12 ranks across. The thing has at least the bandwidth for 4K video and video displays to match. Now link me in an IR and Thermal camera system, a GPS driven 3D terrain map allowing me to "see" through hills and such into the next valley's terrain features ... and fly a drone FPV style using my hands ... like I practiced as an eight year old hanging my hand out the window of mom's Mustang. Imagine Generation 3 stuff six years from now? (Full disclosure I said the same thing about Beta HiFi tapes, 3D movies, and "over-the-top" TV systems and they failed) I dunno, outside of the native integration with Apple devices none of the situations you described really scream "Only Apple could do this". I certainly think they knocked the UI out of the park and Meta certainly has some catching up to do, but if your dream scenario is just having multiple web pages visible you aren't exactly asking for the world here. Majority of this screams more like waiting for better software than anything Apple or Meta are doing with the hardware, and that's potentially where the big differences will start to show. I'm not sure Meta really has done much to capture a massive commercial development presence where I could see Apple really leaning into that. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 6:59:51 PM EDT
[#44]
Imagine your car is driving at 60mph - 88fps. 12ms latency is a hair over 1ft. But if variable latency can push it up to 36mn - then it is 3ft. That is a bitch going into a corner and not knowing if you view is 2' off. Probably will never make a difference I guess - but sometimes hitting your brakes 2' further down the road might.
Which just gets us to the difference between AR, VR, and simulated AR. True VR, would be slightly annoying in a game. True AR, the latency would probably not matter as the core info is reality, not the augmentation. Simulated AR - someone will eventually have a wreck. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 7:22:19 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not sure I'm following exactly. But that sounds like a very different product than the Vision Pro. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I mean, mirrors, no actual digital processing, other than aiming them. Fish eye lens on fiber optics. Like high tech periscope blocks in armor. See thru screens with embedded vid or 3D imagery perhaps. Cool tech. Gonna be a trap for souls, though. Honestly, his idea of transparent screens (like the transparent TV’s & monitors that have been shown off in recent years) would be a good way to remove latency & still have the AR overlay. You probably wouldn’t need any mirror setups, at least in an application like the motorcycle helmet I was talking about. However, I think the big problem with those displays is resolution. There literally needs to be gaps between the pixels to allow transparency, so your AR graphics would be pixelated vs the nice crisp pixel dense screens on the AVP. The only current method I can think of to get around that would be to have the AVP2 or whatever actually be clear glass you look out and then the display would shine into a mirror & reflect on the glass. Similar to how HUD’s on car windshields have worked in the past. The downside to that is you’d lose the VR capability, although Apple seems to prefer AR anyways (but you’d know more about that than me). |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 7:25:03 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't even have a cheap VR headset. I'll probably be a crotchety old man about this kind of tech, it doesn't seem very appealing. I like mine so far (rift s and Quest two) |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 7:27:52 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I dunno, outside of the native integration with Apple devices none of the situations you described really scream "Only Apple could do this". I certainly think they knocked the UI out of the park and Meta certainly has some catching up to do, but if your dream scenario is just having multiple web pages visible you aren't exactly asking for the world here. Majority of this screams more like waiting for better software than anything Apple or Meta are doing with the hardware, and that's potentially where the big differences will start to show. I'm not sure Meta really has done much to capture a massive commercial development presence where I could see Apple really leaning into that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: And come in RAINBOW titanium! I think Apple has some deep coolness going on here that's going to be hard to reproduce outside their sandbox. Owning the phone, desktop, and potentially watch and earbuds allows Apple to join those to the VR to do some cool Augmented reality. Imagine being able to pull up the router's performance live in a window, the firewall's in another, and the plant's WAN diagram in another while out in the plant troubleshooting one of those $250,000 an hour outages. I suppose an iPad could do that much, now have the software highlight the VM chassis that's the problem from the three rows 12 ranks across. The thing has at least the bandwidth for 4K video and video displays to match. Now link me in an IR and Thermal camera system, a GPS driven 3D terrain map allowing me to "see" through hills and such into the next valley's terrain features ... and fly a drone FPV style using my hands ... like I practiced as an eight year old hanging my hand out the window of mom's Mustang. Imagine Generation 3 stuff six years from now? (Full disclosure I said the same thing about Beta HiFi tapes, 3D movies, and "over-the-top" TV systems and they failed) I dunno, outside of the native integration with Apple devices none of the situations you described really scream "Only Apple could do this". I certainly think they knocked the UI out of the park and Meta certainly has some catching up to do, but if your dream scenario is just having multiple web pages visible you aren't exactly asking for the world here. Majority of this screams more like waiting for better software than anything Apple or Meta are doing with the hardware, and that's potentially where the big differences will start to show. I'm not sure Meta really has done much to capture a massive commercial development presence where I could see Apple really leaning into that. The fact that Apple gave this the Pro moniker is our clue to who they intend to use this, IMO. And while plenty of consumers will undoubtedly buy these for their own personal use, it’s probably only going to make sense (financially) for pro’s or prosumers. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 7:43:05 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And come in RAINBOW titanium! I think Apple has some deep coolness going on here that's going to be hard to reproduce outside their sandbox. Owning the phone, desktop, and potentially watch and earbuds allows Apple to join those to the VR to do some cool Augmented reality. Imagine being able to pull up the router's performance live in a window, the firewall's in another, and the plant's WAN diagram in another while out in the plant troubleshooting one of those $250,000 an hour outages. I suppose an iPad could do that much, now have the software highlight the VM chassis that's the problem from the three rows 12 ranks across. The thing has at least the bandwidth for 4K video and video displays to match. Now link me in an IR and Thermal camera system, a GPS driven 3D terrain map allowing me to "see" through hills and such into the next valley's terrain features ... and fly a drone FPV style using my hands ... like I practiced as an eight year old hanging my hand out the window of mom's Mustang. Imagine Generation 3 stuff six years from now? (Full disclosure I said the same thing about Beta HiFi tapes, 3D movies, and "over-the-top" TV systems and they failed) Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'd say we should go for a case of PMags, but we've all seen how THAT played out in the past. I think I'll refrain from gambling on this one. ETA: Will the IIe be twice as expensive, incorporate titanium, and have no new useful features? And come in RAINBOW titanium! I think Apple has some deep coolness going on here that's going to be hard to reproduce outside their sandbox. Owning the phone, desktop, and potentially watch and earbuds allows Apple to join those to the VR to do some cool Augmented reality. Imagine being able to pull up the router's performance live in a window, the firewall's in another, and the plant's WAN diagram in another while out in the plant troubleshooting one of those $250,000 an hour outages. I suppose an iPad could do that much, now have the software highlight the VM chassis that's the problem from the three rows 12 ranks across. The thing has at least the bandwidth for 4K video and video displays to match. Now link me in an IR and Thermal camera system, a GPS driven 3D terrain map allowing me to "see" through hills and such into the next valley's terrain features ... and fly a drone FPV style using my hands ... like I practiced as an eight year old hanging my hand out the window of mom's Mustang. Imagine Generation 3 stuff six years from now? (Full disclosure I said the same thing about Beta HiFi tapes, 3D movies, and "over-the-top" TV systems and they failed) Your scenario of troubleshooting a WAN is exactly the kind of thing I think this current version can shine at, even if Meta’s hardware is capable of this as well. I know Intel uses AR in their chip fab’s for training and instructing employees on tasks, there’s no reason the same concept couldn’t be implemented for even simple things like building maintenance or assembly line maintenance. You have an experienced tech on one end seeing exactly what you see & walking you through the process with the ability to give you AR elements to help you learn. Hell, I used to work at a company that designed & built CNG compressor stations and AR would have been a huge help on the production floor. Seeing the actual CAD model in 3d sitting there on the fabrication deck vs referencing multiple blueprints that were never quite detailed enough. The last R&D project I worked on there probably could have went through 2 or 3 less revisions if we could have used AR in the design process. Even when I was an auto mechanic it would be useful. Maybe too bulky, but being able to have a service manual just floating there in your bay would rock. Being able to look up parts or call a customer without washing up would be a huge time saver as well. Maybe even add AR “tags” to your tools so when you set them down & forget where you can just ask Siri to remind you of the last place the AVP saw it. Tons of possibilities, the software just needs to be developed. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 8:36:41 PM EDT
[#49]
 ‘The Simpsons’ predicted Apple’s Vision Pro 8 years ago — and all hell broke loose in Springfield |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2024 8:52:20 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The fact that Apple gave this the Pro moniker is our clue to who they intend to use this, IMO. And while plenty of consumers will undoubtedly buy these for their own personal use, it’s probably only going to make sense (financially) for pro’s or prosumers. On the bright side, once all the social media clout chasers stop getting clicks there should be some decently priced used examples available. Only minor air bag deployment marks on the front.
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
Attached File