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Posted: 5/8/2020 8:39:49 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How do you feel about that? Can't wait. While I do like HK in general, the P2000 is a piece of shit. |
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Posted: 5/8/2020 8:52:23 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45FMJoe: Can't wait. While I do like HK in general, the P2000 is a piece of shit. Any particular standout reason/s why you say this about the P2000? |
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Posted: 5/8/2020 8:54:49 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AZgunnerLEO: Absolutely not. Maybe for women or men with small hands (I'm not trying to be a dick) but for a lot of adult men, a full size service pistol fits the hand much more comfortably. If concealment is not an issue, why not carry a larger more comfortable pistol with a higher capacity? I have to agree here. For LEO We get issued a Glock 19 but if you’re a person with big hands or just because you like it better you can request a 17. The 19 to me is just a little bit too small for duty. I like the 19 for CCW because I’m not constantly using it. For .mil I don’t think the 18 is a bad idea. I could see it being the only side arm and it not be a big deal because you’re not losing any capacity or frame size. I’d still want a 17 but that’s just a personal preference. I don’t think full size guns are going anywhere. |
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Posted: 5/8/2020 8:55:53 AM EDT
[#4]
I remember reading in the early 90s that U.S. Customs issued the S&W 6946 so it could be used in uniform, in plainclothes and off duty. I'm certain the 6906 was issued the same way over the years in some municipal departments because there have been a ton of police trade ins over the years.
For those who call the Glock 19 a compact. For many years, the 59 series were an often issued duty weapon. They had a 4" barrel and 15rd magazine (earlier 14rd). What does the G19 have? 
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Posted: 5/8/2020 9:01:25 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vanilla_gorilla: Apparently, a compact slide and full-sized grip is the new combat pistol. I'm not sure how that makes sense, but it's the new hotness. Something S&W played with in the 90s. The SSV variant. I remember seeing the 5943SSV and (I think) the 5903SSV as well (it's been a while). |
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Posted: 5/8/2020 9:07:02 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Garandboy: NYPD has been using the G19 as a duty weapon since the 90's. Has worked just fine. LoL. That’s the single Worst testimonial I’ve ever heard. 
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Posted: 5/8/2020 9:11:02 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By shotar: Part of the reason for that is they are required to carry their duty weapon off duty as well. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By shotar: Originally Posted By Garandboy: NYPD has been using the G19 as a duty weapon since the 90's. Has worked just fine. Part of the reason for that is they are required to carry their duty weapon off duty as well. When did NYPD abolish the approved off duty weapons? |
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Posted: 5/8/2020 9:27:39 AM EDT
[#8]
It's already happened. All the local LEO depts around here allow the compact in addition to the full-size, and many are going to issuing only the compact.
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Posted: 5/8/2020 9:42:58 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charlie_Foxtrot: Everyone says this until they actually try that set up. It's garbage. It doesn't balance well and you gain nothing more than a slightly longer sight radius and a negligible amount bullet velocity. If you are using a red dot though that longer sight radius is pointless. It is the least useful set up for a pistol IMO. The carry/commander set up just works better for a combat pistol. You get capacity, you clear the holster faster, it balances better and if you are wearing it on your belt while driving the muzzle is not getting pressed into the seat. It still conceals just fine. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charlie_Foxtrot: Originally Posted By lorazepam: Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla: Apparently, a compact slide and full-sized grip is the new combat pistol. I'm not sure how that makes sense, but it's the new hotness. I hear you. I would rather have a G17 slide with a G19 grip. The slide is easy to hide, the grip is what prints. Everyone says this until they actually try that set up. It's garbage. It doesn't balance well and you gain nothing more than a slightly longer sight radius and a negligible amount bullet velocity. If you are using a red dot though that longer sight radius is pointless. It is the least useful set up for a pistol IMO. The carry/commander set up just works better for a combat pistol. You get capacity, you clear the holster faster, it balances better and if you are wearing it on your belt while driving the muzzle is not getting pressed into the seat. It still conceals just fine. The 17 cut for 19 mags has been around for at least 20 years and is far from garbage. It balances and shoots just like a 17 and conceals like a 19. People who use shot timers and shoot to measurable performance standards realize the benefits of a full size gun. Many many GMs made with a Glock 17, how many with a 19? Probably none, maybe a couple? That's a clue. The big grip-short slide guns are the performance equal of the smaller gun because functionally, they're a compact gun. Nothing more. |
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Posted: 5/8/2020 10:14:25 AM EDT
[#10]
I like a longer pistol (site radius) for accurate shooting. But a shorter barrel like M18 over M17, gives you a little weight/balance that you might prefer to have in a light rather than gun length.
I like M18 size much better than X-compact size though. THey discontinued my favorite, which was X-carry (add magwell and weight, it's awesome!) |
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Posted: 5/8/2020 10:20:17 AM EDT
[#11]
When they invent one that's 12 oz in the holster and 36 oz in the hand I'll be impressed
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Posted: 5/8/2020 10:34:59 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Any particular standout reason/s why you say this about the P2000? |
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Posted: 5/8/2020 10:54:50 AM EDT
[#13]
YES...
Next Question Please... 
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Posted: 5/8/2020 12:42:57 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When Glock introduced the 19, they dubbed it the 'Pocket Glock'.  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/8/2020 9:19:50 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Weasel1201: Yeah 5 rds of .357 magnum in my front pocket is pathetic. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Weasel1201: Originally Posted By INV136: What is really pathetic is people carrying only a pocket pistol as their EDC primary weapon, especially if they don't carry spare magazines. Yeah 5 rds of .357 magnum in my front pocket is pathetic. ... and 13 rounds of fed HST 147 in a P365 in my front pocket is pathetic as well.... We are both just pathetic and should feel bad. |
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Posted: 5/8/2020 10:20:18 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SafetyFirst: ... and 13 rounds of fed HST 147 in a P365 in my front pocket is pathetic as well.... We are both just pathetic and should feel bad. There are big differences between a concealed pistol, an open carried service pistol carried as a primary, and a service pistol carried as a secondary to a rifle, belt-fed machine gun or sniper rifle. I’ve carried pistols in all those capacities, in the real world, including in combat. I’m smart enough not to carry my primary concealed pistol in a pocket. I’ve carried a pistol openly as a primary, and as a secondary, both as a member of the military, and as a civilian cop. I’ve also carried concealed, on duty, in both, which is rare. Serious questions; do you carry a service pistol, as in being “in service?” Do you carry a pistol as a secondary anywhere other than a class? Drawing from your pocket from a seated position will be extremely difficult, whether in a restaurant or in a car. Try it, and then try from the strong side and from appendix. |
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Posted: 5/8/2020 11:06:46 PM EDT
[#17]
Many open sight competition shooters prefer the 5" because with the longer sight radius you can do a little more with things at 25 yards with targets that have small areas to score like little steel plates and partial head box targets. Much prefer the bigger gun for tighter shots
G19 sized pistols shoot well if you can grip the handgun with magazine and not hang any strong hand off. For most people it's just enough and you can always increase capacity but it's a lot more permanent to go down. |
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Posted: 5/8/2020 11:22:10 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Thug_Hunter12: There are big differences between a concealed pistol, an open carried service pistol carried as a primary, and a service pistol carried as a secondary to a rifle, belt-fed machine gun or sniper rifle. I’ve carried pistols in all those capacities, in the real world, including in combat. I’m smart enough not to carry my primary concealed pistol in a pocket. I’ve carried a pistol openly as a primary, and as a secondary, both as a member of the military, and as a civilian cop. I’ve also carried concealed, on duty, in both, which is rare. Serious questions; do you carry a service pistol, as in being “in service?” Do you carry a pistol as a secondary anywhere other than a class? Drawing from your pocket from a seated position will be extremely difficult, whether in a restaurant or in a car. Try it, and then try from the strong side and from appendix. I don't disagree with you. You are correct. It is more difficult to draw when sitting down. That is why I have practiced many many times in various seated locations but not the car while driving. In the car I keep a " service " size pistol in 45ACP with 11 rounds in it where I can access it very quickly. Everything has a trade off. I do carry IWB/OWB with various guns/holsters but the P365 with 12 round mag in a pocket holster gives me the versatility I need. I am smart enough to have a gun on me that will do the job that I can access quickly at all times. Different strokes for different folks. One size does not fit all. |
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Posted: 5/9/2020 3:06:42 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SafetyFirst: I don't disagree with you. You are correct. It is more difficult to draw when sitting down. That is why I have practiced many many times in various seated locations but not the car while driving. In the car I keep a " service " size pistol in 45ACP with 11 rounds in it where I can access it very quickly. Everything has a trade off. I do carry IWB/OWB with various guns/holsters but the P365 with 12 round mag in a pocket holster gives me the versatility I need. I am smart enough to have a gun on me that will do the job that I can access quickly at all times. Different strokes for different folks. One size does not fit all. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SafetyFirst: Originally Posted By Thug_Hunter12: There are big differences between a concealed pistol, an open carried service pistol carried as a primary, and a service pistol carried as a secondary to a rifle, belt-fed machine gun or sniper rifle. I’ve carried pistols in all those capacities, in the real world, including in combat. I’m smart enough not to carry my primary concealed pistol in a pocket. I’ve carried a pistol openly as a primary, and as a secondary, both as a member of the military, and as a civilian cop. I’ve also carried concealed, on duty, in both, which is rare. Serious questions; do you carry a service pistol, as in being “in service?” Do you carry a pistol as a secondary anywhere other than a class? Drawing from your pocket from a seated position will be extremely difficult, whether in a restaurant or in a car. Try it, and then try from the strong side and from appendix. I don't disagree with you. You are correct. It is more difficult to draw when sitting down. That is why I have practiced many many times in various seated locations but not the car while driving. In the car I keep a " service " size pistol in 45ACP with 11 rounds in it where I can access it very quickly. Everything has a trade off. I do carry IWB/OWB with various guns/holsters but the P365 with 12 round mag in a pocket holster gives me the versatility I need. I am smart enough to have a gun on me that will do the job that I can access quickly at all times. Different strokes for different folks. One size does not fit all. I notice you didn’t answer my questions, but obviously the answer to both is no, you don’t carry a pistol in service (on duty) as a primary, and have never carried a pistol as a secondary in the real world. You are correct that everything is a trade off. That said... With all due respect, you, like many posters in this thread, simply don’t have the training and experience necessary to have an informed opinion on this topic. I’m not trying to pick on you. For some reason your post about carrying a 365 in your pocket caught my notice. Like countless cops and members of the military, I’ve made one size pistol fit all (except a pocket). |
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Posted: 5/9/2020 3:13:32 AM EDT
[#20]
opus
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Posted: 5/9/2020 3:24:26 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By INV136: Why would anyone use a "backup" pistol as their primary, duty weapon? Seems stupid to me. I've always carried full size pistols on/off duty and I continue to after I retired. What is really pathetic is people carrying only a pocket pistol as their EDC primary weapon, especially if they don't carry spare magazines. People carry those “pathetic” pocket pistols because of the hassles they get from over zealous “professional” law enforcement officers. In my case, I look at my weapon as an exit strategy, and count on the element of surprise with the goal of no one knowing I am armed until they see my muzzle flash. As a non-LEO I have no duty of care to apprehend. I don’t draw my weapon unless I intend to shoot and when I shoot I shoot to stop the threat. In your case, the weapon serves a different role. |
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Posted: 5/9/2020 4:03:36 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45FMJoe: Can't wait. While I do like HK in general, the P2000 is a piece of shit. I quite like mine. In fact I like it more than my USPc, for the ergonomics of the rear decocker vs the side decocker. Mag capacity is a little low. |
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Posted: 5/9/2020 4:36:04 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Thug_Hunter12: I notice you didn’t answer my questions, but obviously the answer to both is no, you don’t carry a pistol in service (on duty) as a primary, and have never carried a pistol as a secondary in the real world. You are correct that everything is a trade off. That said... With all due respect, you, like many posters in this thread, simply don’t have the training and experience necessary to have an informed opinion on this topic. I’m not trying to pick on you. For some reason your post about carrying a 365 in your pocket caught my notice. Like countless cops and members of the military, I’ve made one size pistol fit all (except a pocket). Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Thug_Hunter12: Originally Posted By SafetyFirst: Originally Posted By Thug_Hunter12: There are big differences between a concealed pistol, an open carried service pistol carried as a primary, and a service pistol carried as a secondary to a rifle, belt-fed machine gun or sniper rifle. I’ve carried pistols in all those capacities, in the real world, including in combat. I’m smart enough not to carry my primary concealed pistol in a pocket. I’ve carried a pistol openly as a primary, and as a secondary, both as a member of the military, and as a civilian cop. I’ve also carried concealed, on duty, in both, which is rare. Serious questions; do you carry a service pistol, as in being “in service?” Do you carry a pistol as a secondary anywhere other than a class? Drawing from your pocket from a seated position will be extremely difficult, whether in a restaurant or in a car. Try it, and then try from the strong side and from appendix. I don't disagree with you. You are correct. It is more difficult to draw when sitting down. That is why I have practiced many many times in various seated locations but not the car while driving. In the car I keep a " service " size pistol in 45ACP with 11 rounds in it where I can access it very quickly. Everything has a trade off. I do carry IWB/OWB with various guns/holsters but the P365 with 12 round mag in a pocket holster gives me the versatility I need. I am smart enough to have a gun on me that will do the job that I can access quickly at all times. Different strokes for different folks. One size does not fit all. I notice you didn’t answer my questions, but obviously the answer to both is no, you don’t carry a pistol in service (on duty) as a primary, and have never carried a pistol as a secondary in the real world. You are correct that everything is a trade off. That said... With all due respect, you, like many posters in this thread, simply don’t have the training and experience necessary to have an informed opinion on this topic. I’m not trying to pick on you. For some reason your post about carrying a 365 in your pocket caught my notice. Like countless cops and members of the military, I’ve made one size pistol fit all (except a pocket). No, I have never carried a pistol on duty as an officer or carried in the military. No I have never carried a pistol as secondary to a primary weapon in battle or official duty. I am not a high speed low drag operator and do not even pretend to be. I understand from your description of your history with guns you have real world experience and are proficient and thank you for your service. I served, just not in a combat role. That said, I do know there is some disadvantage to pocket carry and yes I know most here shun the practice. Pocket carry is better than not carrying at all. Again, when practical for me I will IWB or OWB but the majority of time it will be pocket carry in a holster with a back up mag. We both carry we just have different styles/methods. We both are in the same camp just not in the same tent. We both carry for the same purpose we just choose a different method to accomplish the same goal. Again, one size does not fit all. If one size did fit all there would be one handgun, one caliber, one type holster. Even trainers who train self defense have different methods, styles, etc that they feel is best. The pros even disagree on methods among themselves. |
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Posted: 5/9/2020 9:27:54 PM EDT
[#24]
We use Glock 22s at work.
But I would feel equaly comfortable with carrying a Glock 19 every day. Carry Sig 365xl mostly or Glock 19 off duty every day . Put my Glock 23 in safe never use it . I know my funeral. 40 master race |
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Posted: 5/9/2020 9:51:34 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By INV136: Why would anyone use a "backup" pistol as their primary, duty weapon? Seems stupid to me. I've always carried full size pistols on/off duty and I continue to after I retired. What is really pathetic is people carrying only a pocket pistol as their EDC primary weapon, especially if they don't carry spare magazines. So is the Deagle you carry chambered in .50 AE, or do you prefer the flatter shooting .44 mag? |
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Posted: 5/9/2020 9:56:05 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45FMJoe: I'm on my 4th one in 9 years. Sear springs keep breaking and agency policy is we dead line them for that. As an armorer I've lost track of the number of trigger return springs, sear springs, hammer struts and trigger bars I've seen break. The LEM trigger also sucks in my opinion. @45FMJoe CBP? If so I'm not surprised by your statement. The HK guns are best in a Light LEM configuration. All the other variants suck IMO. I converted me P2000 to a V0, decocker Light LEM. Much better pistol now. |
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Posted: 5/9/2020 10:10:27 PM EDT
[#27]
I carry a G19.5 everyday because I like the size of it for concealment. My favorite Glock still is the G17.5
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