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Link Posted: 11/11/2020 8:17:15 PM EDT
[#1]
Atlanta already has a ring around it just cut off access out.



Link Posted: 11/11/2020 8:20:35 PM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted:
You burn my fields and you're no better than the commies.
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I love how some of the people here love to masturbate about cutting off cities and ambushing anyone who dare leave them.

I was always a small farm town kid,  I always loved growing up with conservatives farm kids and their families. I have worked on farms I, like many other farm kids grew up and moved to the city for good paying jobs,  Not to become libtards.  

I SHTF really happens I am heading for the hills with my own provisions,  Anyone who tries to stop me is going to be in for a surprise.  

I know enough people around the state that I would hope that wouldn't be the case.  


Link Posted: 11/11/2020 8:28:00 PM EDT
[#3]
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Field corn is perfectly edible and quite tasty.

What do you think cornmeal is made from?
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Shhhh.

Of course field corn is not edible, city brethren.  Might as well pass on by.  It’s only used for animal feed and fuel.
Link Posted: 11/11/2020 8:28:42 PM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:



Shhhh.

Of course field corn is not edible, city brethren.  Might as well pass on by.  It’s only used for animal feed and fuel.
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Quoted:
Quoted:

Field corn is perfectly edible and quite tasty.

What do you think cornmeal is made from?



Shhhh.

Of course field corn is not edible, city brethren.  Might as well pass on by.  It’s only used for animal feed and fuel.






Its fucking gross and nasty.
Link Posted: 11/11/2020 8:29:57 PM EDT
[#5]
We hold the high ground in my area, control two bridges, and can set up a blockade on the other two routes of ingress. Unless you’re coming in overland through the woods which is dense oak/cedar/pecan/cottonwood so noisy as fuck from the leaf litter, you’re going to have a hard time getting by unless you have a shit load of commies to sacrifice.
Link Posted: 11/11/2020 8:34:36 PM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:
The corporations that own huge factory farm operations aren't going to shut anything down. Hate to be the bearer of bad news
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The farm supervisors who run those farms for the corporations can get the message communicated to them via bullet holes in their windows. First two are free, the third one turns your kitchen into a Jackson Pollock.


"Yessir, we have a complete work stoppage.....'cause I like breathing!"
Link Posted: 11/11/2020 8:37:11 PM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:



I love how some of the people here love to masturbate about cutting off cities and ambushing anyone who dare leave them.

I was always a small farm town kid,  I always loved growing up with conservatives farm kids and their families. I have worked on farms I, like many other farm kids grew up and moved to the city for good paying jobs,  Not to become libtards.  

I SHTF really happens I am heading for the hills with my own provisions,  Anyone who tries to stop me is going to be in for a surprise.  

I know enough people around the state that I would hope that wouldn't be the case.  


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You're probably not going to look like Enemy to most of the rural folks.  The folks coming out to "get the food!" are going to be quite distinct, visually and behaviorally.
Link Posted: 11/11/2020 8:38:50 PM EDT
[#8]
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You guys don't realize that these people are your next door neighbors?

They're your mail man. Your barber. Your grocer. Your local cop. Your kid's elementary school teacher. The dude at 7/11 you buy smokes from every day.

This isn't going to be city people vs rural dudes. It's going to be neighbor against neighbor and there aren't uniforms.
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And they will be trying to actively kill or subjugate you. Have you happened to notice the traction the calls for enemies lists and reeducation is getting on the Left???
Link Posted: 11/11/2020 8:41:54 PM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:



That's the way I see it.... they have more people but are to chicken for human-wave attacks
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Cut off roads to prevent invasions. (No food into cities).
Cut off electricity (no communications for coordination).
Cut off water (no hygiene, high sickness).
Wait 6 mos to 1 year.  (Allow trucks to haul dead to potters/pauper fields).



That's the way I see it.... they have more people but are to chicken for human-wave attacks



That's what belt feds are for, you gotta keep up, bro.
Link Posted: 11/11/2020 8:46:03 PM EDT
[#10]
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I have a better idea, set up checkpoints and QRF's.  Control your own fields.
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Same reason that Russia did when Napoleon started moving east. Deny the enemy fodder or forage and lengthen their supply lines.



I have a better idea, set up checkpoints and QRF's.  Control your own fields.


Blue Light?
Link Posted: 11/11/2020 8:47:33 PM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:

The farm supervisors who run those farms for the corporations can get the message communicated to them via bullet holes in their windows. First two are free, the third one turns your kitchen into a Jackson Pollock.

"Yessir, we have a complete work stoppage.....'cause I like breathing!"
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Good luck with your little sick fantasies.
Link Posted: 11/11/2020 8:49:01 PM EDT
[#12]
When you guys blow up the City Folk’s electrical grid, please make sure you leave the rural electricity alone.
I like my luxuries.
Link Posted: 11/11/2020 8:56:25 PM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:
This ain't rocket science. Pump a few dozen tracers into major substation transformers and the lights go out...for a long, long time. Once the power is out, that's it for cities.
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Eh.  When I was a kid in the early nineties I lived in a city with no electricity or municipal water for 18 months.  Occasional shelling.  Cut off from large parts of the country.  Checkpoints on all roads.  Wasn't that bad.  Life went on.  Business between warring factions.  Smuggling of everything you can imagine.  (city Zenica, Wiki Link majority muslim in Bosnia.  I am Serbian)
Link Posted: 11/11/2020 9:09:17 PM EDT
[#14]
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Quoted:

Good luck with your little sick fantasies.
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Corporate farm supervisor found!


More relevant: What do you think happened to the folks who stayed King's Men in the wrong part of the Colonies, once the shooting started?  They got their houses burned down.  There's no "just minding my own business".


If you aren't willing to harm the people who actively support the people trying to destroy you....what are you willing to do?
Link Posted: 11/11/2020 9:13:45 PM EDT
[#15]
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Quoted:
You guys don't realize that these people are your next door neighbors?

They're your mail man. Your barber. Your grocer. Your local cop. Your kid's elementary school teacher. The dude at 7/11 you buy smokes from every day.

This isn't going to be city people vs rural dudes. It's going to be neighbor against neighbor and there aren't uniforms.
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You are 100% correct and you can even add family to that list. However there are uniforms they are just worn over the face.
Link Posted: 11/11/2020 9:14:06 PM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:



Corporate farm supervisor found!


More relevant: What do you think happened to the folks who stayed King's Men in the wrong part of the Colonies, once the shooting started?  They got their houses burned down.


If you aren't willing to harm the people who actively support the people trying to destroy you....what are you willing to do?
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Quoted:
Quoted:

Good luck with your little sick fantasies.



Corporate farm supervisor found!


More relevant: What do you think happened to the folks who stayed King's Men in the wrong part of the Colonies, once the shooting started?  They got their houses burned down.


If you aren't willing to harm the people who actively support the people trying to destroy you....what are you willing to do?

Just so we're clear here, you're saying that you're willing to destroy homes and businesses that produce goods consumed by cities?

I just want to make it really clear.

Also, I'd love to hear what you think a corporate farm is.
Link Posted: 11/11/2020 9:16:48 PM EDT
[#17]
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Quoted:

Just so we're clear here, you're saying that you're willing to destroy homes and businesses that produce goods consumed by cities?

I just want to make it really clear.

Also, I'd love to hear what you think a corporate farm is.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Good luck with your little sick fantasies.



Corporate farm supervisor found!


More relevant: What do you think happened to the folks who stayed King's Men in the wrong part of the Colonies, once the shooting started?  They got their houses burned down.


If you aren't willing to harm the people who actively support the people trying to destroy you....what are you willing to do?

Just so we're clear here, you're saying that you're willing to destroy homes and businesses that produce goods consumed by cities?

I just want to make it really clear.

Also, I'd love to hear what you think a corporate farm is.


I know corporate farms are illegal here.  That's not saying there isn't large farms.  But none are corporate.  
Link Posted: 11/11/2020 9:16:56 PM EDT
[#18]
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How organized are rural folks?  Most of them seem to be into holing up and being left alone.  That's my goal once I get out of this god forsaken shithole of a city.
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Pretty much this.
It’s the rural communities ability to survive on their own that’s their greatest asset.  There are a lot of conservative gun owning Patriots in the cities though.  
     
    I know I just want to be left alone.
Link Posted: 11/11/2020 9:20:37 PM EDT
[#19]
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Quoted:



Pretty much this.
It’s the rural communities ability to survive on their own that’s their greatest asset.  There are a lot of conservative gun owning Patriots in the cities though.  
     
    I know I just want to be left alone.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
How organized are rural folks?  Most of them seem to be into holing up and being left alone.  That's my goal once I get out of this god forsaken shithole of a city.



Pretty much this.
It’s the rural communities ability to survive on their own that’s their greatest asset.  There are a lot of conservative gun owning Patriots in the cities though.  
     
    I know I just want to be left alone.



When I lived on a farm,  Our neighbor farmers would come visit for birthdays and we would all trade card nights and game nights at each others homes.  

It was good times.  


One of the neighbor farmers whose grand daughter I went to school with used to bring me cake and presents on my B-day also taught me to run his tractor and tillage at 12 years old.  As an adult I miss those kind of neighbors.  Cancer got him...  RIP Andy.
Link Posted: 11/11/2020 9:21:06 PM EDT
[#20]
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Quoted:

Just so we're clear here, you're saying that you're willing to destroy homes and businesses that produce goods consumed by cities?
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Just so we're clear here, you're saying that you're willing to destroy homes and businesses that produce goods consumed by cities?



That post was in reply to:

Quoted:
The corporations that own huge factory farm operations aren't going to shut anything down. Hate to be the bearer of bad news


Oh noes! What can we do to avoid this checkmate?

To which I replied:

Quoted:



The farm supervisors who run those farms for the corporations can get the message communicated to them via bullet holes in their windows. First two are free, the third one turns your kitchen into a Jackson Pollock.


"Yessir, we have a complete work stoppage.....'cause I like breathing!"



If a corporation decides to keep on truckin' and support the Enemy (and, yeah, that's exactly what they'd be doing), the people in charge of the corporate assets on the local level can be dealt with.  Sure, they can be reasoned with and informed that it's no longer acceptable to feed their product into the enemy machine, regardless of what corporate HQ sez.....but if they decide to go ahead with aiding the Enemy.....they are the Enemy.


What kind of bloodless civil conflict are you imagining, exactly?  


Quoted:


Also, I'd love to hear what you think a corporate farm is.



The kind tc556guy mentioned in his "OMG, corporate farms!" post.




Quoted:


I know corporate farms are illegal here.  That's not saying there isn't large farms.  But none are corporate.  


A lot of family farms are incorporated (many are quite sizeable).  I'm assuming he means the huge consolidated operations (which only account for ~5% of US agriculture) that aren't owned by local people.
Link Posted: 11/11/2020 9:40:11 PM EDT
[#21]
The problem with denying cities the things they need to survive, over and above the cities have the money to pay for these things vs. taking them, is that you ensure an exodus of millions of people far beyond what the rural areas can defend against.  So basically, you’re left hoping starvation kills them after they murder you.
Link Posted: 11/11/2020 9:46:04 PM EDT
[#22]
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The problem with denying cities the things they need to survive, over and above the cities have the money to pay for these things vs. taking them, is that you ensure an exodus of millions of people far beyond what the rural areas can defend against.  So basically, you’re left hoping starvation kills them after they murder you.
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The flipside of this is that a mass exodus from the urban areas, in search of food....is basically the curtains falling on the USA.  No government will survive that.  Certainly not one with anything like it's previous capabilities.  All the mechanisms of control will be instantly disrupted, and the only control left will be within rifleshot of whatever cops/troops remain loyal and in contact with the enemy command.


Now, that exodus itself will involve the mass death of.....a LOT of people.  Especially out West.  For instance, LA's population has to move though what amounts to hundreds of miles of desert, no matter what direction they travel....and Katrina showed us how much of an urban population has problems securing independent transport.  There's a lot of geographical barriers to the "Urban Hordez swamp rural/small town America" scenario.
Link Posted: 11/12/2020 12:13:58 AM EDT
[#23]
How would you know who is on your side?  The civil war bosnia style scenario is terrifying, because people will turn on you immediately regardless of your political affiliation.

It wouldn't be the blue and the grey.  Newsflash too, not everybody in the rural countryside is an ally, there are plenty of liberals in rural areas, there are also still plenty of violent criminals, thieves, drug users etc.  It isn't all Norman Rockwell out in the sticks.

Link Posted: 11/12/2020 12:18:03 AM EDT
[#24]
Just play country music loud and I guar-on-tee you won't see them anymore.

Link Posted: 11/12/2020 4:32:59 AM EDT
[#25]
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I know corporate farms are illegal here.  That's not saying there isn't large farms.  But none are corporate.  
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So your state insures that family farms can't take advantage of some tax breaks?

Bummer.
Link Posted: 11/12/2020 5:14:07 AM EDT
[#26]
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Shut down their cell phones/network access and city dwellers won't know what to do.  It will be total panic when they can't reach social media to affirm their sense of self worth.
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Haha!
Link Posted: 11/12/2020 5:43:13 AM EDT
[#27]
All good thinking... but please keep in mind that the only historical example we have, the war of the Communists (Cities) vs the Whites (Monarchist Countryside) in Russia in the first couple years of the 1920s... the Communists won.
They were able to recruit large numbers of people in the cities (even if often via coercion) who were able to forcibly take the food from the countryside.
And this was despite the Whites having most of the Czarist Army's military professionals on their side.
Numbers matter

Of course there are differences for this hypothetical future scenario...
The post WW1 russian countryside was not as well armed or trained as the US countryside is now (though the left is trying to change this with an eye to assist their totalitarian designs)

Society was less complex and interdependent and therefore more resilient to supply disruptions (but this works both in city and country, yes cities will be more vulnerable but also how many US farmers can farm effectively without seeds and Diesel)

When the communists come for your crops it may indeed be best to burn them so they can't feed their scum.
Link Posted: 11/12/2020 6:22:07 AM EDT
[#28]
I count a dozen people and enough food for 4, what is dinner then? Gardening isn’t high density short term, food like super market, simply getting a tomato plant to producing size is month or 2, you ain’t living off one tomato a week. Until you start getting intensive agriculture (row crops in bulk) feeing populations of cities is a pipe dream.
Link Posted: 11/12/2020 6:51:16 AM EDT
[#29]
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Pretty much this.
It’s the rural communities ability to survive on their own that’s their greatest asset.  There are a lot of conservative gun owning Patriots in the cities though.  
     
    I know I just want to be left alone.
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That's not entirely true
Even in the frontier days the rural farmers relied on the cities for goods. There is no true self-sufficiency and never has been

A for "being left alone", this isn't the 18th century where you keep moving westward when you can see your neighbors chimney smoke. You're part of a larger society. We all like alone time away from everyone, but you can't realistically expect to be "left alone" except on your own terms in a society of over 300 million people.
Link Posted: 11/12/2020 6:54:07 AM EDT
[#30]
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A lot of family farms are incorporated (many are quite sizeable).  I'm assuming he means the huge consolidated operations (which only account for ~5% of US agriculture) that aren't owned by local people.
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The small family farms of the past are just that..in the past. Sure there are larger family farms that grew because they had to, but the family farm isn't what we fondly remember it to be. Those days died out when we went from half the country being tied to agriculture to a few percentage points, when sons and daughters didn't want to carry on the tradition of farming, moved off the land and the farms were sold.
Link Posted: 11/12/2020 7:13:56 AM EDT
[#31]
Edmund Burke had some good advice on this subject.  Evil men have already banded together.  They don’t need a lot to unite them beyond the prospect of loot.  Good men must band together to defeat them.

That means getting to know your neighbors.  Building relationships with them.  ARFCOM can be great for identifying like minded people you can work with.  But you need to get out there and make those connections in the real world; because if the cities collapse, you’re looking at an exploding spore.

#1 -  all the buy off programs the taxes from those cities paid are gone,  All the junkies and criminals we’ve been easing along to their graves are going to find the well is dry.  And they aren’t likely to change their ways.

#2 - People will move from places of scarcity to places of plenty.  If you make a city of millions a place of scarcity, they’ll move.  If you occupy that place of plenty, you’d best have a plan for millions of people with no other options coming to you.
Link Posted: 11/12/2020 7:15:22 AM EDT
[#32]
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Civil War II in the US will happen only under one set of circumstances:

An irreconcilable split in gov and military between two(or more) sides using force against the other to establish control. That would happen after a constitutional crisis that could not be resolved through the existing constitutional legal-political means. Think in terms of peaceful political solution vs military use of force solution.

This split can be a state or collection of states vs federal, or a split in the federal government between two sides. The latter is more likely the scenario if things go south soon although the first scenario is also possible. 'and military' has to be included because even if there is a total government split, if the military remains unified under one side only then there is probably no civil war unless the other side is able to rapidly form their own military which is probably unlikely to happen before it's defeated.

This talk of civil war one being cities vs rural or neighbor vs neighbor can not be the primary sides of civil war, although those things most certainly can and probably will to some extent happen if civil war between two sides of gov and military begins. As long as government and military stay unified then a situation of unorganized neighbor vs neighbor would be isolated and put down quickly should it grow larger or at the very least not able to create civil war. Violent riots, insurrection, armed people's revolution, terrorism - yes; civil war - no. That requires a total split in government and military between two or more sides at least one of which is willing to use force to defeat the other. There is often talk of how the fat and happy populace wouldn't create civil war so nothing to worry about. Correct in that they won't create civil war but incorrect in insinuating that is needed for civil war when it is not only not needed but is also not what would be the primary determinant anyway. The vast majority of the people could be completely fat and happy but if there is that irreconcilable split in government and military then civil war could and probably would quickly develop. Then the battles would be for control of DC, state capitols, military bases, shipping ports and airports, key manufacturing zones, and all other key sectors.

I and others warned many months ago that screwing with the election with this mass mail-in scheme the Great Resetters had created was a dangerous situation that could delegitimize the elections and cause an unresolvable constitutional crisis, split in government, and war or breakup of the country and our constitutional system.

The ideal situation now to prevent such a catastrophic scenario would be the Supreme Court ordering a new election be held in those states where mass cheating through the mail-in vote scheme took place, namely  Michigan(Detroit), Pennsylvania(Philadelphia), Georgia(Atlanta) and possible Arizona and Nevada and a few other states; and done without the mass mail-in scheme that tempts cheating; done traditionally with most all votes requiring in-person voting with only the traditionally very limited absentee ballots for those who truly and physically cannot vote n person such as out-of-area and bedridden/severally handicapped.

Short of that the only way to 'fix' the problem would be to go through and verify each and every single vote of millions of votes in those states were cheating was suspected. This however is not ideal and still very problematic because if tens of thousands of votes were added later than legally allowed yet falsely backdated then this option will not rectify that and there still may be no agreement over the results.

An illegitimate election process  leads to an illegitimate election with illegitimate results leads potentially to severe constitutional crisis and catastrophe. We knew this was coming long in advance and watched it happen. Their intentions most of this year have been blatantly obvious and highly-coordinated. It's looking more and more like this may have been the primary reason the bioweapon virus was released in the first place. World Economic Forum/World Health Organization/UN Sec General/Communist Party of China/other international socialists and Marxists/Democrat Party USA/Deep State/US TV and Internet media/internet shills all working together towards this amoral goal in the name of the overthrow of the US as we know it.
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This guy gets it.

Commies have the numbers in an insurgency historically, it becomes to a level of overwhelmingly outnumbered. All those indoctrinated youth, real bad. Officer corps, corporate America, everything is compromised.

If it becomes Team Trump vs Team Biden I would expect at least a 3:1 ratio in favor of Biden compared to Trump.

It wouldn't be city vs rural, not at first. It would be .mil vs .mil  Maybe some civs involved but primarily it will be the armed forces that start it.

Int'l markets would liquidate. Hyperinflation within a week. Certain assets would bubble.

Good luck trying to get your diabetes meds or your 21 year old daughter her zoloft. Then comes food insecurity. Revolutions are fought on empty bellies.

1 year off the grid, 30% of this nation would be dead from non combat mortality.

You really don't want to go down that path. UN would intervene within days. International coalitions to our vital points, met with resistance.

Even hypothetically, the possibilities are endless. All worse than the next.

It would get to a point where the outcome doesn't even matter.
Link Posted: 11/12/2020 7:21:46 AM EDT
[#33]
Meh, if the choice is die on your knees or die on your feet, the answer is always die on your feet.
Link Posted: 11/12/2020 10:45:09 AM EDT
[#34]
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The small family farms of the past are just that..in the past. Sure there are larger family farms that grew because they had to, but the family farm isn't what we fondly remember it to be. Those days died out when we went from half the country being tied to agriculture to a few percentage points, when sons and daughters didn't want to carry on the tradition of farming, moved off the land and the farms were sold.
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Quoted:

A lot of family farms are incorporated (many are quite sizeable).  I'm assuming he means the huge consolidated operations (which only account for ~5% of US agriculture) that aren't owned by local people.

The small family farms of the past are just that..in the past. Sure there are larger family farms that grew because they had to, but the family farm isn't what we fondly remember it to be. Those days died out when we went from half the country being tied to agriculture to a few percentage points, when sons and daughters didn't want to carry on the tradition of farming, moved off the land and the farms were sold.



I'm guessing you don't know how farming works.  In a lot of cases large corporations contract with many independent farmers.  For example chicken producers own about zero chicken coups all of their birds are contracted out and the large corps have project managers driving around making sure the contracted people are going to meet schedule.  

you may be confusing agri companies with farming, those are not the same thing.  

Link Posted: 11/12/2020 10:52:37 AM EDT
[#35]
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Quoted:



That's the way I see it.... they have more people but are to chicken for human-wave attacks
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Quoted:
Cut off roads to prevent invasions. (No food into cities).
Cut off electricity (no communications for coordination).
Cut off water (no hygiene, high sickness).
Wait 6 mos to 1 year.  (Allow trucks to haul dead to potters/pauper fields).



That's the way I see it.... they have more people but are to chicken for human-wave attacks


Once people are starving, they'll stop being so chicken.

What are you going to do when 40 semi trucks, 40 Brinks armored cars, and 200 trucks carrying 4000 people try to run through your road block?
Link Posted: 11/12/2020 11:47:19 AM EDT
[#36]
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Quoted:

I'm guessing you don't know how farming works.  In a lot of cases large corporations contract with many independent farmers.  For example chicken producers own about zero chicken coups all of their birds are contracted out and the large corps have project managers driving around making sure the contracted people are going to meet schedule.  

you may be confusing agri companies with farming, those are not the same thing.  

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I grew up with farmers literally for next door neighbors. There's a LOT of farmers in my area. I have a pretty good idea.
There are some small family farms left, but not like there was even when I was a kid.
The family farms in my area have been dying since literally the 1930s when the Feds bought up many under-performing farms and used that land as the basis for much of the state forests in my area
In more recent years/ decades its been grow or die for many of the former family farms.
I know farmers who own a good chunk of a county, so they run  large operations.
But much of the talk here makes it sound like the small family farm is still a thing in the minds of many posters when it isn't.
Even the operations that exist today wouldn't be able to continue current operations in the SHTF scenario that some are encouraging. There's no way that the highly industrialized and mechanized operations that constitute modern farming would be able to continue with the support systems that are in place for parts, fuel, etc...and a LOT of that still comes through a modern first world JIT delivery system that these posters want to tear down in the name of some urban versus rural feud.
Link Posted: 11/12/2020 11:53:35 AM EDT
[#37]
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Quoted:

I grew up with farmers literally for next door neighbors. There's a LOT of farmers in my area. I have a pretty good idea.
There are some small family farms left, but not like there was even when I was a kid.
The family farms in my area have been dying since literally the 1930s when the Feds bought up many under-performing farms and used that land as the basis for much of the state forests in my area
In more recent years/ decades its been grow or die for many of the former family farms.
I know farmers who own a good chunk of a county, so they run  large operations.
But much of the talk here makes it sound like the small family farm is still a thing in the minds of many posters when it isn't.
Even the operations that exist today wouldn't be able to continue current operations in the SHTF scenario that some are encouraging. There's no way that the highly industrialized and mechanized operations that constitute modern farming would be able to continue with the support systems that are in place for parts, fuel, etc...and a LOT of that still comes through a modern first world JIT delivery system that these posters want to tear down in the name of some urban versus rural feud.
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I'm guessing you don't know how farming works.  In a lot of cases large corporations contract with many independent farmers.  For example chicken producers own about zero chicken coups all of their birds are contracted out and the large corps have project managers driving around making sure the contracted people are going to meet schedule.  

you may be confusing agri companies with farming, those are not the same thing.  


I grew up with farmers literally for next door neighbors. There's a LOT of farmers in my area. I have a pretty good idea.
There are some small family farms left, but not like there was even when I was a kid.
The family farms in my area have been dying since literally the 1930s when the Feds bought up many under-performing farms and used that land as the basis for much of the state forests in my area
In more recent years/ decades its been grow or die for many of the former family farms.
I know farmers who own a good chunk of a county, so they run  large operations.
But much of the talk here makes it sound like the small family farm is still a thing in the minds of many posters when it isn't.
Even the operations that exist today wouldn't be able to continue current operations in the SHTF scenario that some are encouraging. There's no way that the highly industrialized and mechanized operations that constitute modern farming would be able to continue with the support systems that are in place for parts, fuel, etc...and a LOT of that still comes through a modern first world JIT delivery system that these posters want to tear down in the name of some urban versus rural feud.

The average farm in America is smaller than 500 acres.
Link Posted: 11/12/2020 12:08:01 PM EDT
[#38]
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All good thinking... but please keep in mind that the only historical example we have, the war of the Communists (Cities) vs the Whites (Monarchist Countryside) in Russia in the first couple years of the 1920s... the Communists won.
They were able to recruit large numbers of people in the cities (even if often via coercion) who were able to forcibly take the food from the countryside.
And this was despite the Whites having most of the Czarist Army's military professionals on their side.
Numbers matter

Of course there are differences for this hypothetical future scenario...
The post WW1 russian countryside was not as well armed or trained as the US countryside is now (though the left is trying to change this with an eye to assist their totalitarian designs)

Society was less complex and interdependent and therefore more resilient to supply disruptions (but this works both in city and country, yes cities will be more vulnerable but also how many US farmers can farm effectively without seeds and Diesel)

When the communists come for your crops it may indeed be best to burn them so they can't feed their scum.
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All good thinking... but please keep in mind that the only historical example we have, the war of the Communists (Cities) vs the Whites (Monarchist Countryside) in Russia in the first couple years of the 1920s... the Communists won.
They were able to recruit large numbers of people in the cities (even if often via coercion) who were able to forcibly take the food from the countryside.
And this was despite the Whites having most of the Czarist Army's military professionals on their side.
Numbers matter

Of course there are differences for this hypothetical future scenario...
The post WW1 russian countryside was not as well armed or trained as the US countryside is now (though the left is trying to change this with an eye to assist their totalitarian designs)

Society was less complex and interdependent and therefore more resilient to supply disruptions (but this works both in city and country, yes cities will be more vulnerable but also how many US farmers can farm effectively without seeds and Diesel)

When the communists come for your crops it may indeed be best to burn them so they can't feed their scum.



In the Bolshevik Uprising (and subsequent Russian Civil War), the Reds sort of defaulted into control of both industry (which, due to the way Russia was developing, was concentrated entirely within a small number of cities) AND much of the military and paramilitary manpower (the Imperial Russian Army had rebelled, and mostly dissolved, during the Revolution....and the Red Army eventually gained control of what was left).  While the Whites had most of the professional commanders, the Reds had most of the experienced military manpower.  The Reds also conducted a campaign of mass conscription among the rural peasantry (guess what happened to anyone who objected?) that both augmented their strength considerably and denied those personnel to the Whites.

The USA, in 2020, is mostly post-Industrial (i.e. we have a very large Service sector), and cities don't have a lock on industry (quite a bit of our actual manufacturing is out in the counties and rural areas) and the geographic span from processed material to finished product is far larger (vital widgets for the device your factory in Indianapolis makes might come from Oregon....if not Taiwan).  Our military is also not famously a bastion of Leftism (although it may be shakier than we thought), and the Left cannot rely on the troops to default to their flag.

Let's not forget that the Russian Civil War (and Revolution before it) was a Class Struggle, which pit the Workers against the higher echelons of society.  Whereas our current struggle is a lot more horizontal (i.e. two Lower or two Middle Class people from different areas and backgrounds might be on totally opposite sides) and has race, cultural, and regional ingredients that simply didn't pertain to the Social Revolutions of the 20th Century.



Quoted:

It wouldn't be city vs rural, not at first. It would be .mil vs .mil  Maybe some civs involved but primarily it will be the armed forces that start it.


This is something a lot of us miss, I think.  The fight might begin with factions within some Army unit ordered in to quell one side or the other (or those factions trying to declare the unit for one side or the other).  Hell, the whole struggle might turn on who ends up in control of Hawthorn Army Depot (where there's enough ordnance and ammunition to refight the Vietnam War).

Best case scenario: "Our" side wins the intra-military struggle and the military is semi-intact and on our side....that most likely halts the struggle in it's tracks. We win, and it's all over but the screaming and firing squads.

Possibly more likely scenario: The military collapses from within in a series of barracks civil wars and "deny this to the enemy" sabotage.  

Worst case scenario: The military ends up on the Other Side.  Uh-oh.
Link Posted: 11/12/2020 12:16:26 PM EDT
[#39]
I want a six-foot trench dug around the entire base. Fill it with gasoline.

Link Posted: 11/12/2020 12:18:21 PM EDT
[#40]
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this feels like the most likely.  you'll get overwhelmed by groups and swarms.  Keeping vehicle traffic away from you and large fields of fire so you can keep them from rushing you feel like your best bet,  but I'm not sure.


You are definitely in trouble if they can drive vehicles up to your house.


my only experience with this (and I live in a suburb with houses all around me),  was a protracted doorbell ditching campaign launched by several large groups of teenagers several years ago.  

coming out of my house did nothing. They kept doing it until I actually got outside the house and attacked them from behind (airsoft, nightvision and a blanket)

once they started taking airsoft from behind them and they couldn't figure out where, they scattered, 2 or 3 of those and I literally haven't been doorbell ditched  since.

if my house gets attacked,  my plan is to get out away from it and fire on the main force from behind,  and try to draw or scare them away with confusion. I have a rifle that's good out to 400 yards with supressed subsonic rounds, I can probably get a dozen of them before they realize they're even being hit, or from where.
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When resources get scarce they will kill their own, their strongest will survive to spread out.

With limited supply and knowledge of guns they will be devastated by a few battles and change tactics. Their most effective use of violence will be using vehicles to overwhelm (as in driving a truck into your house) and fire... lighting your house on fire to get you out.



this feels like the most likely.  you'll get overwhelmed by groups and swarms.  Keeping vehicle traffic away from you and large fields of fire so you can keep them from rushing you feel like your best bet,  but I'm not sure.


You are definitely in trouble if they can drive vehicles up to your house.


my only experience with this (and I live in a suburb with houses all around me),  was a protracted doorbell ditching campaign launched by several large groups of teenagers several years ago.  

coming out of my house did nothing. They kept doing it until I actually got outside the house and attacked them from behind (airsoft, nightvision and a blanket)

once they started taking airsoft from behind them and they couldn't figure out where, they scattered, 2 or 3 of those and I literally haven't been doorbell ditched  since.

if my house gets attacked,  my plan is to get out away from it and fire on the main force from behind,  and try to draw or scare them away with confusion. I have a rifle that's good out to 400 yards with supressed subsonic rounds, I can probably get a dozen of them before they realize they're even being hit, or from where.


@crashburnrepeat

That’s a good plan. 99.99% of thugs expect someone to shoot back out of a window or out the door.

My plan is similar, our BOL is in a field with tree lines about 200yds out.

Our current house won’t work, it’s a townhouse and the line of townhouses is YUGE. We don’t have enough like minded neighbors to defend it.
Link Posted: 11/12/2020 12:27:21 PM EDT
[#41]
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@crashburnrepeat

That’s a good plan. 99.99% of thugs expect someone to shoot back out of a window or out the door.

My plan is similar, our BOL is in a field with tree lines about 200yds out.

Our current house won’t work, it’s a townhouse and the line of townhouses is YUGE. We don’t have enough like minded neighbors to defend it.
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It’s pretty easy to plan.

My family is a long time (150 years) farming family in my county.  Me, my parents and my sister all have houses on the same property, all about 300 yards from each other in a roughly triangular formation.  We have clear fields of fire between all with additional field space around that.  

We will pull down several bridges and bulldoze other roads in order to make vehicular access to the area difficult.  They would have to walk roughly 10-15 miles over a variety of terrain - including dense forest and multiple stream/river crossings.  

Thermal and NV capability add even more fun.  
Link Posted: 11/12/2020 1:14:19 PM EDT
[#42]
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It’s pretty easy to plan.

My family is a long time (150 years) farming family in my county.  Me, my parents and my sister all have houses on the same property, all about 300 yards from each other in a roughly triangular formation.  We have clear fields of fire between all with additional field space around that.  

We will pull down several bridges and bulldoze other roads in order to make vehicular access to the area difficult.  They would have to walk roughly 10-15 miles over a variety of terrain - including dense forest and multiple stream/river crossings.  

Thermal and NV capability add even more fun.  
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That is a viable strategy for some; but the strategy needs to match the situation.  If you deter 99% of your local urban areas refugees, it matters a lot whether that local urban area has a population of 250,000 or 10 million.
Link Posted: 11/12/2020 1:35:48 PM EDT
[#43]
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Cut off roads to prevent invasions. (No food into cities).
Cut off electricity (no communications for coordination).
Cut off water (no hygiene, high sickness).
Wait 6 mos to 1 year.  (Allow trucks to haul dead to potters/pauper fields).
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IMHO it wouldn't take that long.
There are lots of people and grocery stores would be cleaned out in 1-3 days.
I'd give it 1 month tops before they "eat their own".
Link Posted: 11/12/2020 2:03:49 PM EDT
[#44]
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That is a viable strategy for some; but the strategy needs to match the situation.  If you deter 99% of your local urban areas refugees, it matters a lot whether that local urban area has a population of 250,000 or 10 million.
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The nearest urban area with over 1 million people is about 100 miles away.

Locally, there’s less than 200,000 in the three county area around me.
Link Posted: 11/12/2020 4:29:22 PM EDT
[#45]
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Pretty much this.
It’s the rural communities ability to survive on their own that’s their greatest asset.  There are a lot of conservative gun owning Patriots in the cities though.  
     
    I know I just want to be left alone.
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How organized are rural folks?  Most of them seem to be into holing up and being left alone.  That's my goal once I get out of this god forsaken shithole of a city.



Pretty much this.
It’s the rural communities ability to survive on their own that’s their greatest asset.  There are a lot of conservative gun owning Patriots in the cities though.  
     
    I know I just want to be left alone.


LOL.  Most rural communities can't really survive on their own.

Most farmers don't grow their own seed.

Most farmers are dependent on cities for diesel and gasoline for their farm machinery and chemical plants downstream from the petroleum industry for fertilizer and pesticides.

That farmer with a field for of hybrid seeds with a John Deer combine operating on GPS is going to have some challenges when there's no fuel to run the combine or tractor, the seeds generated from his crop are about 1/10th as efficient per acre as the original hybrids, his supply of roundup dries up, and there's no fertilizer.  Oh yeah, better hope that rural co-op keeps the power flowing, otherwise that irrigation setup is going to fail, and you'll be back to hand seeding and tilling and weeding a few acres just to feed your family.  

Link Posted: 11/12/2020 4:32:23 PM EDT
[#46]
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The small family farms of the past are just that..in the past. Sure there are larger family farms that grew because they had to, but the family farm isn't what we fondly remember it to be. Those days died out when we went from half the country being tied to agriculture to a few percentage points, when sons and daughters didn't want to carry on the tradition of farming, moved off the land and the farms were sold.
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A lot of family farms are incorporated (many are quite sizeable).  I'm assuming he means the huge consolidated operations (which only account for ~5% of US agriculture) that aren't owned by local people.

The small family farms of the past are just that..in the past. Sure there are larger family farms that grew because they had to, but the family farm isn't what we fondly remember it to be. Those days died out when we went from half the country being tied to agriculture to a few percentage points, when sons and daughters didn't want to carry on the tradition of farming, moved off the land and the farms were sold.


From what I understand, at least west of the Mississippi, it's hard to make a go (economically speaking) of it without having a 640 acres or more of land.  Anything smaller than that is a hobby farm or ranch.
Link Posted: 11/12/2020 5:59:14 PM EDT
[#47]
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Yeap, that’ll keep em fed.
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IDK but if the commies do come take your farms it will only be long enough to raid any crops. They sure as hell ain't going to do the work to grow more.

WRONG

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EaPmOpUXYAcR_9x?format=jpg&name=large


Yeap, that’ll keep em fed.

That, and all the Long Pig they'll be eating.
Link Posted: 11/12/2020 10:49:12 PM EDT
[#48]
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From what I understand, at least west of the Mississippi, it's hard to make a go (economically speaking) of it without having a 640 acres or more of land.  Anything smaller than that is a hobby farm or ranch.
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Shit, there are vast parts of Texas where all you can do with a section is graze a few cattle.  Assuming you have water to support said cattle and said cattle are accustomed to what forage you have.
Link Posted: 11/12/2020 10:53:59 PM EDT
[#49]
Yeah, it's not that the rural areas can swan along nicely if they decide to collapse the continental logistics/food system...it's more that they can outlast the urban cores if the continental logistics/food system is collapsed.


Smallville and Farm Country aren't going to go down in flames the first month or two.  LA, Chicago, NYC....are all a sea of blood and flames <96hrs after loss of resupply and services, and things get a lot worse after that.
Link Posted: 11/12/2020 10:55:21 PM EDT
[#50]
My question...  Someone is at work when SHTF and they are escaping the city. Would farmers allow free pass for them to get to where they are going or hold them hostage?
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