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Posted: 9/21/2022 9:21:08 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It looks like a Wish.com batmobile bodykit on a BRZ, but Ariel does some cool shit so I can't hate it. That was my first thought. |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 9:23:50 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Locomotives don't have a battery bank for traction power. That may start changing, but traditionally the electric power is generated and transmitted to the electric motors directly. Have there been attempts to make this work in cars? Seems to me this would be ideal for 1/2 ton and bigger trucks. Might need a small battery to handle sudden acceleration. |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 9:30:13 AM EDT
[#3]
Looks like the old school 80s Keaton Batmobile.
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Posted: 9/21/2022 9:41:35 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is exactly how manufacturers should be designing electric vehicles currently until they figure out batteries that provide better range. Plug-in EV drivetrain, with a CE generator to extend the range as far as you want when you need the extra mileage You make it sound like this is new... Chevy started doing that with the Volt 11 years ago! |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 9:41:59 AM EDT
[#5]
Are the verticle stabilizers removable? Coz they stupid ugly. |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 9:59:59 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 47hp turbine? Fucking joke. Allison C20B or go fucking home. PT-6 if you’re man enough. Pt-6 burns 30-40 gallons an hour. |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 10:15:14 AM EDT
[#7]
Ignoring the styling and even the potential high performance use, the drive train configuration seems like a potential winning idea.
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Posted: 9/21/2022 10:29:32 AM EDT
[#8]
The complaint about this type of drivetrain (including the Volt's) has always been 'weight and complexity'. But it's pretty easy to find a 15kw generator that weighs 400 lbs or less. Add a 15 gallon gas tank and gas, and you're looking at about 600 lbs.
A Tesla Model S battery pack weighs 1200 lbs. So you could reduce the battery size by 1/2, replace it with a gas-powered generator, and have an EV with a 1000+ mile possible range that's less dependent on the electric grid. But the gods have spoken... |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 10:48:49 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The complaint about this type of drivetrain (including the Volt's) has always been 'weight and complexity'. But it's pretty easy to find a 15kw generator that weighs 400 lbs or less. Add a 15 gallon gas tank and gas, and you're looking at about 600 lbs. A Tesla Model S battery pack weighs 1200 lbs. So you could reduce the battery size by 1/2, replace it with a gas-powered generator, and have an EV with a 1000+ mile possible range that's less dependent on the electric grid. But the gods have spoken... You should get that to market |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 11:56:40 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looks like a Batmobile. |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 12:02:59 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Doesn’t make much difference since it’s not powering the wheels Of course it does. Do you think a 47hp engine can maintain charge in the batteries "indefinitely" (as you claim) f you're demanding more than 47hp worth of performance from the electrics? Is it adequate? Possibly. Is it irrelevant? No. |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 12:06:31 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You should get that to market Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The complaint about this type of drivetrain (including the Volt's) has always been 'weight and complexity'. But it's pretty easy to find a 15kw generator that weighs 400 lbs or less. Add a 15 gallon gas tank and gas, and you're looking at about 600 lbs. A Tesla Model S battery pack weighs 1200 lbs. So you could reduce the battery size by 1/2, replace it with a gas-powered generator, and have an EV with a 1000+ mile possible range that's less dependent on the electric grid. But the gods have spoken... You should get that to market No point. No ICE vehicles has been decreed by the climate change prophets. |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 12:31:18 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No point. No ICE vehicles has been decreed by the climate change prophets. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The complaint about this type of drivetrain (including the Volt's) has always been 'weight and complexity'. But it's pretty easy to find a 15kw generator that weighs 400 lbs or less. Add a 15 gallon gas tank and gas, and you're looking at about 600 lbs. A Tesla Model S battery pack weighs 1200 lbs. So you could reduce the battery size by 1/2, replace it with a gas-powered generator, and have an EV with a 1000+ mile possible range that's less dependent on the electric grid. But the gods have spoken... You should get that to market No point. No ICE vehicles has been decreed by the climate change prophets. Huh someone should tell Toyota |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 12:38:56 PM EDT
[#14]
Styling aside, hybrid ev with a turbine apu is a good idea for a variety of reasons
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Posted: 9/21/2022 2:22:33 PM EDT
[#15]
I’m convinced better systems can be found but it really feels like the market follows itself. I think a lot of the direction we’re seeing is because of the original tax credits and how they were setup. Outside of really expensive stuff it’s really hard to break from the norm.
It would be interesting to see how much better something like the Volt would be with whatever the current motors and batteries are. |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 9:07:34 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have there been attempts to make this work in cars? Seems to me this would be ideal for 1/2 ton and bigger trucks. Might need a small battery to handle sudden acceleration. Locomotives use electric drivetrains because it is impractical to use mechanical ones. Hybrids use mechanical drivetrains for sustained high speed or load operations because it is more efficient to do so. Hybrids are about downsizing the engine and using battery stored energy to provide peak acceleration in lieu of a bigger less efficient engine. Low speed operation can also be done more efficiently by battery stored energy rather than trying to operate an engine at 5% power. Without a battery, there is no gain. Even the GM Volt used a mechanical drivetrain for sustained power and high speed operation. |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 9:10:06 PM EDT
[#17]
Batmobile is right. Does it self-extinguish its lithium battery fires?
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Posted: 9/22/2022 8:26:21 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No one is doing this because there is no point in doing so. Locomotives use electric drivetrains because it is impractical to use mechanical ones. Hybrids use mechanical drivetrains for sustained high speed or load operations because it is more efficient to do so. Hybrids are about downsizing the engine and using battery stored energy to provide peak acceleration in lieu of a bigger less efficient engine. Low speed operation can also be done more efficiently by battery stored energy rather than trying to operate an engine at 5% power. Without a battery, there is no gain. Even the GM Volt used a mechanical drivetrain for sustained power and highspeed operation. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Have there been attempts to make this work in cars? Seems to me this would be ideal for 1/2 ton and bigger trucks. Might need a small battery to handle sudden acceleration. Locomotives use electric drivetrains because it is impractical to use mechanical ones. Hybrids use mechanical drivetrains for sustained high speed or load operations because it is more efficient to do so. Hybrids are about downsizing the engine and using battery stored energy to provide peak acceleration in lieu of a bigger less efficient engine. Low speed operation can also be done more efficiently by battery stored energy rather than trying to operate an engine at 5% power. Without a battery, there is no gain. Even the GM Volt used a mechanical drivetrain for sustained power and highspeed operation. Yea there's been lots of stabs at class 4-8 alternatives - BEV (coming along), the compressed air hybrids, variable boost hybrid (similar to Ford's Bobcat concept paired with electric) but the stuff that's been in service is pretty much conventional hybrid. Sounds funny but a decade ago Frito Lay was the front runner - the systems types have remained consistent tho. |
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Posted: 9/22/2022 8:29:08 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: More like a baby Batmobile, looks small. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Looks like a Batmobile. More like a baby Batmobile, looks small. Looks like an RX-7 modified to look like a batmobile. |
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Posted: 9/22/2022 8:40:38 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 47hp turbine? Fucking joke. Allison C20B or go fucking home. PT-6 if you’re man enough. Why not a J58 with the aero-spike and bleed bypasses... |
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Posted: 9/22/2022 11:02:54 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: The complaint about this type of drivetrain (including the Volt's) has always been 'weight and complexity'. But it's pretty easy to find a 15kw generator that weighs 400 lbs or less. Add a 15 gallon gas tank and gas, and you're looking at about 600 lbs. A Tesla Model S battery pack weighs 1200 lbs. So you could reduce the battery size by 1/2, replace it with a gas-powered generator, and have an EV with a 1000+ mile possible range that's less dependent on the electric grid. But the gods have spoken... Quoted: No point. No ICE vehicles has been decreed by the climate change prophets. Not everything you disagree with is a conspiracy. With this vehicle you get better range, and that is all. Nothing more. However you get additional complexity with the linkage of the two systems, plus the inherent complexity of both systems. Add the dollar costs of two systems and it becomes way less attractive for mass production. This car, built for enthusiasts may work, but not for mass production. I’ve driven a 911 across country before in my 30s. Never again. I was moving the car. If you can, good for you. I do not believe performance cars are meant for long distance ROAD driving. I get it, some people will do it. There is a reason most people / families do not go on a road trip in a sports car. So the range becomes less attractive (to me). |
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Posted: 9/22/2022 11:25:53 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Volt had multiple drive modes. At highway speeds or when large amounts of sustained power were needed, it drove the wheels mechanically. GM found that was the most efficient method above certain power levels. This peeved purists who can't understand design practicalities. |
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Posted: 9/22/2022 12:36:47 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought the big complaint about the Volt was that Chevy got a bunch of federal funds to make a car that would not have a mechanical connection between ICE and the wheels, and then when it hit the market it had exactly that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The Volt had multiple drive modes. At highway speeds or when large amounts of sustained power were needed, it drove the wheels mechanically. GM found that was the most efficient method above certain power levels. This peeved purists who can't understand design practicalities. I thought the big complaint about the Volt was that Chevy got a bunch of federal funds to make a car that would not have a mechanical connection between ICE and the wheels, and then when it hit the market it had exactly that. I've seen criticisms that GM and A123 received a shit ton of fed and state money for dev and production - but I've not seen any of that tied to a serial hybrid requirement. Can you point me? |
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Posted: 9/22/2022 12:38:47 PM EDT
[#24]
BMW i3 REX operated on that principle
I think they just made it too weird looking, but an awesome design |
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Posted: 9/22/2022 12:40:55 PM EDT
[#25]
I'm pretty sure Audi did this for the last Dakar.
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Posted: 9/22/2022 12:49:56 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm pretty sure Audi did this for the last Dakar. Pretty much - the RS5 DTM car's TSFI powering an MGU to charge the batts that run two more MGUs that drive the wheels. Everybody's now bitching about its overmatch. |
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Posted: 9/22/2022 12:56:05 PM EDT
[#27]
Like the Batmobile took LSD.
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Posted: 9/22/2022 1:17:34 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s irrelevant. The turbine engine never drives the wheels, it’s only used as a generator. In the interview in the video I posted the designer/engineer says in their testing the only time the turbine can’t keep up with the power needs of the quad motor system is on a track, the power needs for which are significantly more whether you’re driving an EV or traditional ICE vehicle. On any kind of street driving, including driving like a complete asshole, the car never outdrives the power that the turbine can produce This smells like BS. Any time the electric drive is putting out more than the 47 HP the turbine provides, you are running an energy deficit. To make up that deficit, you have to drop below and spend time below the 47 HP limit. Of course, system inefficiencies mean that 47 HP is not the real number, it is actually something lower. Besides all that, if you are continuously running a fossil fuel generator that provides all the power your car needs, why have an electric vehicle, at all??? |
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Posted: 9/22/2022 1:28:49 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This smells like BS. Any time the electric drive is putting out more than the 47 HP the turbine provides, you are running an energy deficit. To make up that deficit, you have to drop below and spend time below the 47 HP limit. Of course, system inefficiencies mean that 47 HP is not the real number, it is actually something lower. Besides all that, if you are continuously running a fossil fuel generator that provides all the power your car needs, why have an electric vehicle, at all??? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It's irrelevant. The turbine engine never drives the wheels, it's only used as a generator. In the interview in the video I posted the designer/engineer says in their testing the only time the turbine can't keep up with the power needs of the quad motor system is on a track, the power needs for which are significantly more whether you're driving an EV or traditional ICE vehicle. On any kind of street driving, including driving like a complete asshole, the car never outdrives the power that the turbine can produce This smells like BS. Any time the electric drive is putting out more than the 47 HP the turbine provides, you are running an energy deficit. To make up that deficit, you have to drop below and spend time below the 47 HP limit. Of course, system inefficiencies mean that 47 HP is not the real number, it is actually something lower. Besides all that, if you are continuously running a fossil fuel generator that provides all the power your car needs, why have an electric vehicle, at all???  Attached FileThis will be predominantly a track toy - peeps need to get what Ariel does and stop thinking practicals |
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Posted: 9/22/2022 1:32:37 PM EDT
[#30]
Drivers rarely going WOT all of the time, hybrids a good compromise
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Posted: 9/22/2022 5:07:56 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @SnoopisTDI I've seen criticisms that GM and A123 received a shit ton of fed and state money for dev and production - but I've not seen any of that tied to a serial hybrid requirement. Can you point me?  Maybe I'm confusing it with something else, or it was somehow mixed up in the confusion of EV vs hybrid.
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Posted: 9/22/2022 5:31:42 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This smells like BS. Any time the electric drive is putting out more than the 47 HP the turbine provides, you are running an energy deficit. To make up that deficit, you have to drop below and spend time below the 47 HP limit. Of course, system inefficiencies mean that 47 HP is not the real number, it is actually something lower. Besides all that, if you are continuously running a fossil fuel generator that provides all the power your car needs, why have an electric vehicle, at all??? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It’s irrelevant. The turbine engine never drives the wheels, it’s only used as a generator. In the interview in the video I posted the designer/engineer says in their testing the only time the turbine can’t keep up with the power needs of the quad motor system is on a track, the power needs for which are significantly more whether you’re driving an EV or traditional ICE vehicle. On any kind of street driving, including driving like a complete asshole, the car never outdrives the power that the turbine can produce This smells like BS. Any time the electric drive is putting out more than the 47 HP the turbine provides, you are running an energy deficit. To make up that deficit, you have to drop below and spend time below the 47 HP limit. Of course, system inefficiencies mean that 47 HP is not the real number, it is actually something lower. Besides all that, if you are continuously running a fossil fuel generator that provides all the power your car needs, why have an electric vehicle, at all??? Electric vehicles have better performance than ICE vehicles. It’s why all the top record-setting HyperCard these days are becoming EVs. Regardless of what’s powering the motors (battery or generator), quad motors > ICE |
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Posted: 9/22/2022 5:34:51 PM EDT
[#33]
That cat gen system is pretty slick. It can supposedly run on basically any combustible fuel, liquid or gas, including hydrogen. I'm sure the final car would be configured for a single fuel type, but it's still a neat capability. It's not exactly burning the fuel - it's using it in a catalyst bed to heat air to drive a turbine, which is coupled to a permanent magnet generator. I assume they use the gen as motor to spin it up initially, but I could be wrong.
They claim 28% efficiency from fuel to DC voltage, but I don't know how they arrive at thay number. Discharge gas is supposedly clean enough to not require any further treatment, and has a temp below 300C (600f) at the discharge of the heat exchanger. They claim the turbine is no louder outside the car than normal wind/road noise of an EV driving by you at highway speeds. |
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Posted: 9/22/2022 5:41:09 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This smells like BS. Any time the electric drive is putting out more than the 47 HP the turbine provides, you are running an energy deficit. To make up that deficit, you have to drop below and spend time below the 47 HP limit. Of course, system inefficiencies mean that 47 HP is not the real number, it is actually something lower. Besides all that, if you are continuously running a fossil fuel generator that provides all the power your car needs, why have an electric vehicle, at all??? Do you think it’s a battery extender? Instead of putting more battery weight they decided with this solution to extend the battery. It’ll still run to zero battery, but just take longer? Meaning it starts charging at 90% battery and discharge is more than charge, but just extends the time / distance? I still think it’s complicated. |
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Posted: 9/23/2022 8:08:01 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought the big complaint about the Volt was that Chevy got a bunch of federal funds to make a car that would not have a mechanical connection between ICE and the wheels, and then when it hit the market it had exactly that. Tons of fanboys got upset because they wanted it to be like a locomotive because they have some silly idea that a locomotive is designed with electric transmission for efficiency rather than out of necessity for a practical way to reliably power multiple axles under extreme loads. Locomotives are not one thing like an economy car. Locomotives operate at extreme loads at low speeds and higher speeds. They are heavily loaded and expected to work for long periods of time and cost lots of money. Cars have engines that are massively oversized to provide adequate acceleration and then operate at a fraction of total available power around town and during steady state highway use. Hybrids are able to down size the engine and use the stored electric energy to provide bursts of power as needed. The Volt works closest to a locomotive of any mass produced hybrid. Except it stores energy in batteries that locomotives don't have and it can power the wheels mechanically. The volt is made to be a plug in hybrid. It has a gas tank and engine for range. The bat mobile is an EV. It has a multi-fuel turbo generator to charge the battery and extend range to get you to your destination to recharge. |
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Posted: 9/23/2022 8:11:02 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This smells like BS. Any time the electric drive is putting out more than the 47 HP the turbine provides, you are running an energy deficit. To make up that deficit, you have to drop below and spend time below the 47 HP limit. Of course, system inefficiencies mean that 47 HP is not the real number, it is actually something lower. Besides all that, if you are continuously running a fossil fuel generator that provides all the power your car needs, why have an electric vehicle, at all??? Also to extend range when arfcom uses their batmobile track car to tow their 34 foot boat over a mountain pass. |
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Posted: 9/23/2022 8:35:38 AM EDT
[#37]
The turbogenerator is probably sized to provide for the average power needs on a commute back from the track plus a slight surplus so you can still pull a stop light drags on the way home in case you meet the joker.
In any case, the battery will probably gain a bit on the way home unless you drive like maniac at all times. |
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Posted: 9/23/2022 8:50:11 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The turbogenerator is probably sized to provide for the average power needs on a commute back from the track plus a slight surplus so you can still pull a stop light drags on the way home in case you meet the joker. In any case, the battery will probably gain a bit on the way home unless you drive like maniac at all times. Simon's been pretty clear the intent of the optional extender - so there's no reliance on charging infrastructure, track or tar. Claim is, in moderate or even on road spirited driving, the turbine-gen will keep up. But, regardless the extender, he's also clear full track day sessions won't be possible. It's still entirely proto, so tho most has been worked out in principal much is still being worked through (cooling/dynamics) |
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Posted: 9/23/2022 8:52:59 AM EDT
[#39]
If the car is reasonably aerodynamic, 50hp should be enough to maintain a steady speed within the speed limit. Sure more will be necessary for acceleration, but at 50hp and continuous load - it will probably be charging a bit anyway. There will be some loss in converting to DC, but a traditional drive train has losses too. I think my Saturn does fine with 60hp.
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Posted: 9/23/2022 9:04:11 AM EDT
[#40]
 NEW Ariel Hipercar – 1180bhp, 0-60mph In 2secs + Jet Engine?! | Top Gear Some is answered here |
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Posted: 9/23/2022 9:08:39 AM EDT
[#41]
Where do I put my golf clubs? Not much clearance for prairie dog towns either, do the windows roll down? pass
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Posted: 9/23/2022 2:28:08 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryHey that looks like the very first thing I posted at the beginning of this thread ?? |
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Posted: 9/23/2022 2:31:31 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where do I put my golf clubs? Not much clearance for prairie dog towns either, do the windows roll down? pass They make a model for you:  https://www.arielna.com/arielnomad-tactical It’s almost like different cars are made for different purposes and not everything has to conform to your needs or desires |
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Posted: 9/23/2022 2:56:54 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryCorrection: it looks like a decapitated Decepticon. Also, Top Gear was better when they used "Torques" as a unit of measure. |
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Posted: 9/23/2022 3:16:02 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gS2XwsIFVs0Ariel, a small British carmaker responsible for the iconic Atom and Nomad, revealed its newest car Thursday, simply called the Hipercar. A big departure from the exoskeleton-like vehicles normally associated with the brand, the Hipercar is an all-electric sports car with a real(-ish) interior and body panels. Even crazier than the absurd bodywork is the option for a turbine range extender. Power comes from a Cosworth-supplied 62.0-kWh battery pack that runs on an 800-volt architecture. Buyers can opt for rear-wheel drive or all-wheel drive, with a 290-hp Equipmake APM electric motor at each wheel. Total output for the all-wheel-drive variant is 1163 horsepower and 1327 pound-feet of torque, while the rear-drive version gets 581 hp and 664 pound-feet. The most fascinating part of the Hipercar isn't its weird body, it's the optional range extender. Instead of opting for a conventional piston engine or even a rotary like Mazda, Ariel decided to use Cosworth's CatGen turbine engine as a range extender. It makes about 47 hp and turns on to charge the batteries while on the move. The Hipercar you see here is Ariel's first production-intent prototype. The company hasn't said how much the car will cost or when deliveries will begin, though we're expecting to learn more later in the year. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a41066056/ariel-hipercar-revealed/ This is how car manufacturers should be designing the current generation of EVs. Effectively plug-in hybrids where the electric motors are the only things used to power the wheels, so you get all the characteristics and performance of EVs, but with small combustion engine generators that allow you to extend the range indefinitely. With the turbine engine used as a generator to recharge the battery on the go, this new Ariel has all the performance of a high powered EV but infinite range. That’s how manufacturers should be designing cars for the next 10-20 years. https://www.topgear.com/sites/default/files/2022/08/TopGear%20-%20Ariel%20Hipercar%20-002.jpg https://www.electrichybridvehicletechnology.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/ARIEL-HIPERCAR-_-04-_-HiRes.jpg It is pretty butt ugly currently, but it’s still in pre-production prototype phase so the styling is subject to (should) change. @beitodesstrafe new spank bank material! Ugly? Heck that looks awesome, it's like baby batmobile! |
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Posted: 9/23/2022 3:26:44 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Locomotives use electric drivetrains because it would be horribly unreliable, bulky, and complex to try to mechanically drive multiple axles. Modern hybrids have different drive modes depending on load and speed. Both Toyota and GM have found through testing and experience that it is more efficient for the engine to drive the wheels mechanically at sustained highway speeds. For some strange reason, this really peeved lots of GM Volt fans. Hitting the sweet spot of battery bank size and generator size may one day produce a hybrid where overall efficiency is better without a mechanical transmission and direct drive, but so far that hasn't been practical. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That is exactly how manufacturers should be designing electric vehicles currently until they figure out batteries that provide better range. Plug-in EV drivetrain, with a CE generator to extend the range as far as you want when you need the extra mileage Modern hybrids have different drive modes depending on load and speed. Both Toyota and GM have found through testing and experience that it is more efficient for the engine to drive the wheels mechanically at sustained highway speeds. For some strange reason, this really peeved lots of GM Volt fans. Hitting the sweet spot of battery bank size and generator size may one day produce a hybrid where overall efficiency is better without a mechanical transmission and direct drive, but so far that hasn't been practical. Conversion losses, you can't beat physics |
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Posted: 9/23/2022 3:36:07 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yea there's been lots of stabs at class 4-8 alternatives - BEV (coming along), the compressed air hybrids, variable boost hybrid (similar to Ford's Bobcat concept paired with electric) but the stuff that's been in service is pretty much conventional hybrid. Sounds funny but a decade ago Frito Lay was the front runner - the systems types have remained consistent tho. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Have there been attempts to make this work in cars? Seems to me this would be ideal for 1/2 ton and bigger trucks. Might need a small battery to handle sudden acceleration. Locomotives use electric drivetrains because it is impractical to use mechanical ones. Hybrids use mechanical drivetrains for sustained high speed or load operations because it is more efficient to do so. Hybrids are about downsizing the engine and using battery stored energy to provide peak acceleration in lieu of a bigger less efficient engine. Low speed operation can also be done more efficiently by battery stored energy rather than trying to operate an engine at 5% power. Without a battery, there is no gain. Even the GM Volt used a mechanical drivetrain for sustained power and highspeed operation. Yea there's been lots of stabs at class 4-8 alternatives - BEV (coming along), the compressed air hybrids, variable boost hybrid (similar to Ford's Bobcat concept paired with electric) but the stuff that's been in service is pretty much conventional hybrid. Sounds funny but a decade ago Frito Lay was the front runner - the systems types have remained consistent tho. A few of our local trash trucks have a setup with a high pressure hydraulic accumulator and a drive unit on the trans output that's promising. Just gives some extra enough push from zero to 10/15mph then regen to slow. Supposedly returned good numbers and saved tons on brake work but it's almost a perfect use case. Those guys alternate flat footing throttle brake every 200yds. |
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Posted: 9/23/2022 3:37:13 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: This is how car manufacturers should be designing the current generation of EVs. Effectively plug-in hybrids where the electric motors are the only things used to power the wheels, so you get all the characteristics and performance of EVs, but with small combustion engine generators that allow you to extend the range indefinitely. With the turbine engine used as a generator to recharge the battery on the go, this new Ariel has all the performance of a high powered EV but infinite range. That’s how manufacturers should be designing cars for the next 10-20 years. That's what the Chevy/GM Volt was ... and it was discontinued because people didn't buy it. The Fisker Karma was the same, and nobody bought them. For some weird reason, people want either all ICE or all electric, and do not seem to want electric with an ICE range extender. |
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Posted: 9/23/2022 3:42:00 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hey that looks like the very first thing I posted at the beginning of this thread Quote HistoryQuoted: Hey that looks like the very first thing I posted at the beginning of this thread Exactly - but apparent nobody watched it so reposting for ya brah |
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Posted: 9/23/2022 3:47:49 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's what the Chevy/GM Volt was ... and it was discontinued because people didn't buy it. The Fisker Karma was the same, and nobody bought them. For some weird reason, people want either all ICE or all electric, and do not seem to want electric with an ICE range extender. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This is how car manufacturers should be designing the current generation of EVs. Effectively plug-in hybrids where the electric motors are the only things used to power the wheels, so you get all the characteristics and performance of EVs, but with small combustion engine generators that allow you to extend the range indefinitely. With the turbine engine used as a generator to recharge the battery on the go, this new Ariel has all the performance of a high powered EV but infinite range. That's how manufacturers should be designing cars for the next 10-20 years. That's what the Chevy/GM Volt was ... and it was discontinued because people didn't buy it. The Fisker Karma was the same, and nobody bought them. For some weird reason, people want either all ICE or all electric, and do not seem to want electric with an ICE range extender. Add the i3 as well The issue was performance and appointments. The demand issue could have been easily solved by a haircut to bring any into line - but the complexity made that impossible. |
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