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Posted: 1/13/2015 12:41:35 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Has FN's FNS9 turned out to be a solid pistol? Seems like it would meet the requirements you guys are arguing about. I don't know much about it. http://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/IMG_9307.jpg Their history speaks for itself. FN BDA FN BDM FN Forty Nine FN FNP FN FMP-9M |
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Posted: 1/13/2015 1:23:21 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nice on paper... but in typical FN fashion they will drop it within a couple of years. Their history speaks for itself. FN BDA FN BDM FN Forty Nine FN FNP FN FMP-9M Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Has FN's FNS9 turned out to be a solid pistol? Seems like it would meet the requirements you guys are arguing about. I don't know much about it. http://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/IMG_9307.jpg Their history speaks for itself. FN BDA FN BDM FN Forty Nine FN FNP FN FMP-9M BDA and BDM are essentially Hi-Powers. Forty Nine, Browning Pro, FNP, FNX, and FNX are all related. |
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Posted: 1/13/2015 1:28:04 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: BDA and BDM are essentially Hi-Powers. Forty Nine, Browning Pro, FNP, FNX, and FNX are all related. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Has FN's FNS9 turned out to be a solid pistol? Seems like it would meet the requirements you guys are arguing about. I don't know much about it. http://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/IMG_9307.jpg Their history speaks for itself. FN BDA FN BDM FN Forty Nine FN FNP FN FMP-9M BDA and BDM are essentially Hi-Powers. Forty Nine, Browning Pro, FNP, FNX, and FNX are all related. |
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Posted: 1/13/2015 1:33:11 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: BDA and BDM are essentially Hi-Powers. Forty Nine, Browning Pro, FNP, FNX, and FNX are all related. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Has FN's FNS9 turned out to be a solid pistol? Seems like it would meet the requirements you guys are arguing about. I don't know much about it. http://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/IMG_9307.jpg Their history speaks for itself. FN BDA FN BDM FN Forty Nine FN FNP FN FMP-9M BDA and BDM are essentially Hi-Powers. Forty Nine, Browning Pro, FNP, FNX, and FNX are all related. It looks like a truly ambidextrous gun, even the mag release. Some manufacturers advertise an ambi release, when it's just one that you can switch to whichever side you prefer. I'd have to handle one, the safety looks awfully small in pictures. There is the no safety version though... |
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Posted: 1/13/2015 1:33:49 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And all have been dropped except for the Hi-Power, FNX, and FNS. Because I own a FNP-45 and it was damn fast that FN said... fuck it. Buy this instead. The only thing that has lasted is the Hi-Power. The FNP might have design connections to the previous line and the ones that replaced but FN has ceased supporting the FNP line. Just like FN ceased supporting the BDA and BDM line. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Has FN's FNS9 turned out to be a solid pistol? Seems like it would meet the requirements you guys are arguing about. I don't know much about it. http://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/IMG_9307.jpg Their history speaks for itself. FN BDA FN BDM FN Forty Nine FN FNP FN FMP-9M BDA and BDM are essentially Hi-Powers. Forty Nine, Browning Pro, FNP, FNX, and FNX are all related. If a product is not as successful as it needs to be they will drop it in favor of developing a new gun. If the FNS or FNX gets adopted, you can guarantee they'll support it. |
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Posted: 1/13/2015 1:34:51 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And all have been dropped except for the Hi-Power, FNX, and FNS. Because I own a FNP-45 and it was damn fast that FN said... fuck it. Buy this instead. The only thing that has lasted is the Hi-Power. The FNP might have design connections to the previous line and the ones that replaced but FN has ceased supporting the FNP line. Just like FN ceased supporting the BDA and BDM line. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Has FN's FNS9 turned out to be a solid pistol? Seems like it would meet the requirements you guys are arguing about. I don't know much about it. http://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/IMG_9307.jpg Their history speaks for itself. FN BDA FN BDM FN Forty Nine FN FNP FN FMP-9M BDA and BDM are essentially Hi-Powers. Forty Nine, Browning Pro, FNP, FNX, and FNX are all related. I have been wanting to get a Hi-power. Looks like that is still the best FN to get. |
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Posted: 1/13/2015 1:47:35 PM EDT
[#7]
It is....
 But lets get back on track.  Still a good service pistol.
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Posted: 1/13/2015 1:49:28 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryWhy do you hate our troops, man? 
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Posted: 1/13/2015 1:51:50 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is.... http://i.imgur.com/oWzjFFJ.jpg But lets get back on track. http://i.imgur.com/gg3HHQP.jpg Still a good service pistol. Finger grooves 
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Posted: 1/13/2015 1:57:01 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For me, if I am drawing my pistol, if I do remember to sweep the safety, it will be a miracle. DAO with a hammer or something like a glock safety are the way to go. The HK's LEM is pretty good for that...the benefits of a long DAO trigger pull (which has been researched by at least one federal agency and found to contribute to recognizing unintentional trigger pulls) but with a nice enough pull to still be easy to shoot. |
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Posted: 1/13/2015 1:59:29 PM EDT
[#11]
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Doesn't the M9 have like a 3,000 round service life on the locking block and something like 30,000 on the slide? No...30,000 rounds is often related as the service life of the locking block. Assuming it was properly fitted and the recoil spring has been changed properly over time. The slide itself can go for a far larger number of rounds because the locking block is really the wear item. |
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Posted: 1/13/2015 2:02:47 PM EDT
[#12]
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The HK's LEM is pretty good for that...the benefits of a long DAO trigger pull (which has been researched by at least one federal agency and found to contribute to recognizing unintentional trigger pulls) but with a nice enough pull to still be easy to shoot. The stock LEM is pretty decent. I used to be in business with a Federal Flight Deck Officer and got to shoot his "issue" HK. The TSA or whoever spec'd a higher pull weight... it was abysmal. It felt like pulling the trigger on a Monday-morning built Taurus immersed in peanut butter.
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Posted: 1/13/2015 2:07:30 PM EDT
[#13]
True...the beauty of the LEM is that it can be set up to meet pretty much any need. It can be made stupid heavy by idiots or nice and shootable like the one in my EDC by changing spring weights.
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Posted: 1/13/2015 2:46:50 PM EDT
[#14]
I got your next Army sidearm right here
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Posted: 1/13/2015 3:06:12 PM EDT
[#15]
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Sorry, but the primary role of a sidearm is just that. Military isn't LE where a sidearm is their primary. It is their secondary. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sorry, but the primary role of a sidearm is just that. Military isn't LE where a sidearm is their primary. It is their secondary. So now we really see how out of the loop you are. The pistol's use and priority has skyrocketed in recent times. It is a often a primary weapon in low intensity environments, which is primarily what we have been engaging in for the past decade. It's a primary weapon for aircrews, trainers, intelligence specialists, etc. Hell in my job half the time I end up with just a pistol if i'm mounted because I will leave my rifle in the truck because it gets in the way. The FID, SFAT, MiTT, and MTT missions all carry pistols primarily to maintain a low key profile as part of their mission, while still remaining armed against green on blue. Afghanistam has been primarily a host nation training mission for a few years now...and it's what iraq and Africa is right now. Regardless, the performance gap has been identified, and the MHS is coming. You can argue your pipe dreams all you want, but that remains a fact. Quoted:
guns will still be cleaned to until the finish is worn off, Not as easy to do with polymer frames. |
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Posted: 1/13/2015 3:09:55 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I got your next Army sidearm right here
http://gearscout.militarytimes.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/16/2014/12/122914-OFF-Beretta-M9A3059.jpg 
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Posted: 1/13/2015 3:30:21 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I got your next Army sidearm right here http://gearscout.militarytimes.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/16/2014/12/122914-OFF-Beretta-M9A3059.jpg http://cdn.meme.am/instances/56706192.jpg  |
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Posted: 1/13/2015 3:42:56 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm sorry. Here is something polymer for you. It has a red dot AND a frame-mounted safety! http://cdn.bearingarms.com/uploads/2014/08/ultimate-hi-point.png Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I got your next Army sidearm right here http://gearscout.militarytimes.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/16/2014/12/122914-OFF-Beretta-M9A3059.jpg http://cdn.meme.am/instances/56706192.jpg http://cdn.bearingarms.com/uploads/2014/08/ultimate-hi-point.png |
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Posted: 1/13/2015 4:24:52 PM EDT
[#19]
From Beretta 17min ago :
BERETTA USA Beretta was contacted on Jan 9 by the US Army contracting officer of the M9 Contract, who informed us that, contrary to what is being reported, no final decision has been made regarding the M9A3 proposal and that her office will inform us of any future developments. |
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Posted: 1/13/2015 4:28:16 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
From Beretta 17min ago : BERETTA USA Beretta was contacted on Jan 9 by the US Army contracting officer of the M9 Contract, who informed us that, contrary to what is being reported, no final decision has been made regarding the M9A3 proposal and that her office will inform us of any future developments. Interesting. |
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Posted: 1/13/2015 4:39:26 PM EDT
[#21]
I have chest carried the M-9, in an M-82 with the flap, and never, despite mounting and dismounting an Up-Armored HMMWV to get into the turret and behind my pig, hundreds of times, have never had the decocker move on me. I have worn the M-9 in the M-82, sans flap, with thumb break, first using the original hip extender, (the soft webbing one) and then the later, more rigid style, and never had the decocker move, despite moving in and out of the aforementioned HMMWV's, Gators, SUV's, and the cabs of tanker trucks hauling JP-5. Even when wearing a Sam Browne with the Bianchi Jacket Slot LE holster, which was notably less protective than the M-82 and constantly getting into and out of our Chevy Lumina squad cars, I have never had that lever move. None of this included the hundreds of hours spent in training, both on the range and participating in field exercises.
If you experienced this phenomenon with your issue sidearm, I would have seriously questioned whether the damn thing was serviceable enough to fire. Again, if your weapon is being subjected to external forces to the extent that ANY lever is being manipulated, your choice of holster needs to reevaluated. |
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Posted: 1/13/2015 4:49:45 PM EDT
[#22]
I just don't get slide mounted safeties.
Why would any end user or manufacturer ever think that was a good idea? If you are going to have a safety, a frame mounted safety that can be operated easily with a normal length thumb while gripping the weapon is just logical. |
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Posted: 1/13/2015 4:51:45 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
From Beretta 17min ago : BERETTA USA Beretta was contacted on Jan 9 by the US Army contracting officer of the M9 Contract, who informed us that, contrary to what is being reported, no final decision has been made regarding the M9A3 proposal and that her office will inform us of any future developments. I would bet that the Army is not interested until after the MHS finishes up. I think that they're serious about the MHS, but realize that it might make sense to transfer to the M9A3. I see both sides of it. To add, the guy in charge might be serious about MHS, but his successor might not be. Always good to have a backup. I wouldn't be unhappy with the M9A3 (I like it) but I think now is the time to clear the slate. |
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Posted: 1/13/2015 4:52:54 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just don't get slide mounted safeties. Why would any end user or manufacturer ever think that was a good idea? If you are going to have a safety, a frame mounted safety that can be operated easily with a normal length thumb while gripping the weapon is just logical. |
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Posted: 1/13/2015 5:33:48 PM EDT
[#25]
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Because it isn't intended to be used as a safety but as a decocker. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I just don't get slide mounted safeties. Why would any end user or manufacturer ever think that was a good idea? If you are going to have a safety, a frame mounted safety that can be operated easily with a normal length thumb while gripping the weapon is just logical. OK, same thing. Slide mounted decocker, where is the joy in that? A frame mounted decocker/safety, like Sigs and HKs have, right within thumb sweep range while gripping the sidearm normally. Don't get it, makes no sense to me to have it on the slide. The slide should be clean. |
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Posted: 1/13/2015 5:37:14 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OK, same thing. Slide mounted decocker, where is the joy in that? A frame mounted decocker/safety, like Sigs and HKs have, right within thumb sweep range while gripping the sidearm normally. Don't get it, makes no sense to me to have it on the slide. The slide should be clean. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I just don't get slide mounted safeties. Why would any end user or manufacturer ever think that was a good idea? If you are going to have a safety, a frame mounted safety that can be operated easily with a normal length thumb while gripping the weapon is just logical. OK, same thing. Slide mounted decocker, where is the joy in that? A frame mounted decocker/safety, like Sigs and HKs have, right within thumb sweep range while gripping the sidearm normally. Don't get it, makes no sense to me to have it on the slide. The slide should be clean. Ya'll just need some manly thumbs is all.
But I agree. I've spent a bit of time coaching M9 ranges and the slide mounting does cause problems with some shooters, which leads (IMO) to a bad grip and shitty shooting. Personally, I've been lucky and don't have that problem, so I never gave it much thought when looking at personal pistol criteria. |
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Posted: 1/13/2015 5:42:58 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because it isn't intended to be used as a safety but as a decocker. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I just don't get slide mounted safeties. Why would any end user or manufacturer ever think that was a good idea? If you are going to have a safety, a frame mounted safety that can be operated easily with a normal length thumb while gripping the weapon is just logical. Well, the Army wants a safety, not a decocker. Looks like another plus for the MHS. |
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Posted: 1/13/2015 6:05:10 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
From Beretta 17min ago : BERETTA USA Beretta was contacted on Jan 9 by the US Army contracting officer of the M9 Contract, who informed us that, contrary to what is being reported, no final decision has been made regarding the M9A3 proposal and that her office will inform us of any future developments. I would not read too much into that. Army never has to give an answer or respond to it period if they so choose. It is an unsolicited proposal. And such a response allows Beretta to save face for a brief time being, hence not damaging sales or potential investor relations. |
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Posted: 1/13/2015 6:05:30 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think the G19 is the best compromise, but I am biased. the 92 is too fucking big. Best of all would be to acknowledge there are different requirements and to purchase pistols for different communities. the M11 is an example of that. But even that is really too big for a concealed only application. They still fucked that one up. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Personal view... Handguns are secondary weapons. Some smart people from NC have gone so far as to carry Glock 26s as they are smaller, lighter, can take the 19 mag, and will do what a pistol needs to do (Be a backup weapon). I could see a Glock 26 being the solution. Pistols are all but useless in a rifle fight anyway. To think that a bigger pistol is going to help is folly. It is still a pistol. Lightest, smallest 9mm that holds 15 rounds and is durable/reliable. but the one size fits all mentality kicks our ass. we want the same pistol that is a back up for some, that is concealed for some, and is primary for some. oh, and then some fucking retard will demand they have a 45 because it has, "knock down power." Exactly. Everyones view here on the pistol is only as a backup for charging bunkers. There are so many more viable reasons for a pistol aside from that. I think the G19 is the best compromise, but I am biased. the 92 is too fucking big. Best of all would be to acknowledge there are different requirements and to purchase pistols for different communities. the M11 is an example of that. But even that is really too big for a concealed only application. They still fucked that one up. But someone might get their feelings hurt if you did that... I think it does lend credence to the USP concept of multiple trigger/safety configurations though. |
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Posted: 1/13/2015 7:04:17 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But someone might get their feelings hurt if you did that... I think it does lend credence to the USP concept of multiple trigger/safety configurations though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Personal view... Handguns are secondary weapons. Some smart people from NC have gone so far as to carry Glock 26s as they are smaller, lighter, can take the 19 mag, and will do what a pistol needs to do (Be a backup weapon). I could see a Glock 26 being the solution. Pistols are all but useless in a rifle fight anyway. To think that a bigger pistol is going to help is folly. It is still a pistol. Lightest, smallest 9mm that holds 15 rounds and is durable/reliable. but the one size fits all mentality kicks our ass. we want the same pistol that is a back up for some, that is concealed for some, and is primary for some. oh, and then some fucking retard will demand they have a 45 because it has, "knock down power." Exactly. Everyones view here on the pistol is only as a backup for charging bunkers. There are so many more viable reasons for a pistol aside from that. I think the G19 is the best compromise, but I am biased. the 92 is too fucking big. Best of all would be to acknowledge there are different requirements and to purchase pistols for different communities. the M11 is an example of that. But even that is really too big for a concealed only application. They still fucked that one up. But someone might get their feelings hurt if you did that... I think it does lend credence to the USP concept of multiple trigger/safety configurations though. Or P2000/P2000SK. For those with normal sized hands. ;-) |
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Posted: 1/13/2015 8:33:59 PM EDT
[#31]
I guess I don't get all the hate for the slide mounted safety. I've carried a 92F since 1988 and the safety placement has never been a problem for me. Also my father carried a P-38 that he "found" in Korea from 1950 to 1953 and never complained about the slide mounted safety.
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Posted: 1/13/2015 8:37:28 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
People laugh but the early Taurus 92s were made in former beretta factories on beretta tooling built by former beretta employees they are G2g I have one of the early ones and have had zero problems with it. I've owned it since 1979. |
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Posted: 1/13/2015 9:56:26 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I got your next Army sidearm right here
http://gearscout.militarytimes.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/16/2014/12/122914-OFF-Beretta-M9A3059.jpg Boner-inspiring. 
What is the thingee on the rail of the top one? |
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Posted: 1/13/2015 10:28:55 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Very true. I knew an MP that ND'd his M9 indoors, he showed me the hole in the concrete wall. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Spent a lot of time with guys that inhabit Bragg. To a man they all preferred a 17 or 19 to the 92. They carried 17's and 19's. However, Big Green has to play to the lowest denominator. While a 17/19 makes mucho sense, we all know dumbasses that really need a safety. Not everyone is going to get the training and support needed to roll with an internal safety. Big Green is more worried about perception and blowback from multiple shitheads having an ND "due to no external safety"(my words) rather than getting us the best weapon possible. However, I do believe we may see BG make a good decision and go with the 17/19. Regardless of how we all feel, there has been some common sense shown by BG on occasion. Let us hope this is one of those times. Eh, they can get a 17/19 or M&P with manual safety, but personally, I don't believe it's necessary. M9's are ND'd all the time, the safety does not prevent this. I'll even go so far to say that a manual safety leads to a false sense of security, leading to complacency. Very true. I knew an MP that ND'd his M9 indoors, he showed me the hole in the concrete wall. Missed my point. I agree with everything you say. My point is upper echelons of BG want to be able to talk about/defend/pump up, whatever; the fact guys have a safety so when, which we all know happens, Billy Joe Dumbass has an ND, they can CYA and say, "Not our fault, it has a safety." This is to prevent negative blowback about putting a gun "without a true safety" in troops hands. BG, in many instances, is concerned about how an event will be presented in the media, versus what is best for us. |
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Posted: 1/13/2015 10:42:11 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No...30,000 rounds is often related as the service life of the locking block. Assuming it was properly fitted and the recoil spring has been changed properly over time. The slide itself can go for a far larger number of rounds because the locking block is really the wear item. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Doesn't the M9 have like a 3,000 round service life on the locking block and something like 30,000 on the slide? No...30,000 rounds is often related as the service life of the locking block. Assuming it was properly fitted and the recoil spring has been changed properly over time. The slide itself can go for a far larger number of rounds because the locking block is really the wear item. Good info. Thanks. |
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Posted: 1/13/2015 10:45:03 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Missed my point. I agree with everything you say. My point is upper echelons of BG want to be able to talk about/defend/pump up, whatever; the fact guys have a safety so when, which we all know happens, Billy Joe Dumbass has an ND, they can CYA and say, "Not our fault, it has a safety." This is to prevent negative blowback about putting a gun "without a true safety" in troops hands. BG, in many instances, is concerned about how an event will be presented in the media, versus what is best for us. I understand your point and was merely offering my personal opinion. |
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Posted: 1/13/2015 10:49:07 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No...30,000 rounds is often related as the service life of the locking block. Assuming it was properly fitted and the recoil spring has been changed properly over time. The slide itself can go for a far larger number of rounds because the locking block is really the wear item. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Doesn't the M9 have like a 3,000 round service life on the locking block and something like 30,000 on the slide? No...30,000 rounds is often related as the service life of the locking block. Assuming it was properly fitted and the recoil spring has been changed properly over time. The slide itself can go for a far larger number of rounds because the locking block is really the wear item. I am on my second barrel of my at home M9, without any frame or slide issues. |
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Posted: 1/14/2015 12:10:33 AM EDT
[#38]
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I am on my second barrel of my at home M9, without any frame or slide issues. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Doesn't the M9 have like a 3,000 round service life on the locking block and something like 30,000 on the slide? No...30,000 rounds is often related as the service life of the locking block. Assuming it was properly fitted and the recoil spring has been changed properly over time. The slide itself can go for a far larger number of rounds because the locking block is really the wear item. I am on my second barrel of my at home M9, without any frame or slide issues. M885 is considerable hotter than store bought commercial range grade ammo. |
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Posted: 1/14/2015 12:54:51 AM EDT
[#39]
The M9 is a fine pistol. But it is heavy, lacks modularity, lacks a rail, and the slide mounted safety/decocker is a detriment. The fact of the matter is that over half the inventory is ready to be replaced and there are better options out there. The price is a drop in the bucket compared to the budget and what we spend our money on. BLUF is that now is the time to implement a newer, more efficient pistol. We're supposed to be looking forwards, not living in the past.
The pistol as only a secondary weapon is an idea proven wrong through use. Yes.....yes, you can train past the slide mounted safety. I've done it. I can manipulate it with my thumb with no effort. But that's b/c I care and I'm a gun nerd. BUT even I have dicked the dog and engaged it when I racked/grabbed the slide. I've also caught shit from senior people for carrying the pistol as intended. I started using sharpie on that stupid fucking red dot. WML's, much like optics, have been proven as a needed accessory. It's stupid to not have that capability in a new weapon. Want IR? SureFire has the answer with their X3/400U series. Even CT if they'd care enough. Training? Sure, we could use more training for EVERYTHING. That still doesn't stop us from dropping in far more complex systems than a pistol and telling people to get up to speed on it. Training only goes so far. Changing the mindset and attitude of the military is the larger challenge. As a whole, I'd wager many don't see themselves as a fighter or responsible for self/unit defense. |
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Posted: 1/14/2015 9:40:19 AM EDT
[#40]
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Are you serious? If so, then this is a direct result of poor training, and I dont mean to be insulting, but it is a de-cocker, not a safety, and if the hammer is down, which if you de-cock when leaving the arming point, it will be, then how will it move? Are you saying that the hammer would cock as you moved around the helo? If that is the case, and you cannot move the decocking lever from one position to another without manipulation of the hammer , then you folks had the shittiest holsters on the planet and your helo was filled with items that constantly snagged your guns hammer and cocked your firearms. Sorry, but every time I carried an M-9, it was with a round in the chamber, and the weapon de-cocked. It rode in either an M-82, with a drop leg extender and thumb snap, or on my Interceptor in an M-82 with the flap, or in a Bianchi jacket slot thumb break on a Sam Browne. Not once did I ever have the hammer and thus the decocker, move on me, despite moving into and out of very confined spaces such as HMMWV's and smaller vehicles. My last duty holster was the Blackhawk Omega, and again, I had zero issues. Now, as to the de-cocker issue itself, I am old enough to remember when the M-9 was the new kid on the block, replacing our well worn but beloved 1911's in the Corps. The de-cocker and double action first shot was supposed to make for a safer pistol, and the slide mounting was the preferred location. This is nothing more than some idiot thinking that "different has to be better", just as the last idiot thought when we moved away from the 1911. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I thought it allowed for decipher only. Bullshit there isn't. The safety is in a retarded position. We had to leave out pistol chambers empty when outside the wire because they would routinely get moved from safe to fire through the normal duties of helicopter crewmembers. Whats the fucking point of a safety if you don't know what position it will be in when you reach for it in a need? Are you serious? If so, then this is a direct result of poor training, and I dont mean to be insulting, but it is a de-cocker, not a safety, and if the hammer is down, which if you de-cock when leaving the arming point, it will be, then how will it move? Are you saying that the hammer would cock as you moved around the helo? If that is the case, and you cannot move the decocking lever from one position to another without manipulation of the hammer , then you folks had the shittiest holsters on the planet and your helo was filled with items that constantly snagged your guns hammer and cocked your firearms. Sorry, but every time I carried an M-9, it was with a round in the chamber, and the weapon de-cocked. It rode in either an M-82, with a drop leg extender and thumb snap, or on my Interceptor in an M-82 with the flap, or in a Bianchi jacket slot thumb break on a Sam Browne. Not once did I ever have the hammer and thus the decocker, move on me, despite moving into and out of very confined spaces such as HMMWV's and smaller vehicles. My last duty holster was the Blackhawk Omega, and again, I had zero issues. Now, as to the de-cocker issue itself, I am old enough to remember when the M-9 was the new kid on the block, replacing our well worn but beloved 1911's in the Corps. The de-cocker and double action first shot was supposed to make for a safer pistol, and the slide mounting was the preferred location. This is nothing more than some idiot thinking that "different has to be better", just as the last idiot thought when we moved away from the 1911. This has been discussed 87 times in this thread (and every other thread where we discuss the Beretta): it doesn't matter what you call it nor what it really is; the Army says it's a SAFETY and must be engaged for normal carry. |
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Posted: 1/14/2015 11:01:35 AM EDT
[#41]
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Or P2000/P2000SK. For those with normal sized hands. ;-) Quote HistoryQuoted:
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but the one size fits all mentality kicks our ass. we want the same pistol that is a back up for some, that is concealed for some, and is primary for some. oh, and then some fucking retard will demand they have a 45 because it has, "knock down power." Exactly. Everyones view here on the pistol is only as a backup for charging bunkers. There are so many more viable reasons for a pistol aside from that. I think the G19 is the best compromise, but I am biased. the 92 is too fucking big. Best of all would be to acknowledge there are different requirements and to purchase pistols for different communities. the M11 is an example of that. But even that is really too big for a concealed only application. They still fucked that one up. But someone might get their feelings hurt if you did that... I think it does lend credence to the USP concept of multiple trigger/safety configurations though. Or P2000/P2000SK. For those with normal sized hands. ;-) P30L LEM would be the Excalibur the Mil is looking for. |
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Posted: 1/14/2015 11:35:38 AM EDT
[#42]
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The M9 is a fine pistol. But it is heavy, which reduces recoil lacks modularity, lacks a rail, which was addressed several years ago with the M9A1 and now with the M9A3 and the slide mounted safety/decocker is a detriment only to people who prefer to complain, it has served me just fine. The fact of the matter is that over half the inventory is ready to be replaced and there are better options out there. The price is a drop in the bucket compared to the budget and what we spend our money on. BLUF is that now is the time to implement a newer, more efficient pistol. We're supposed to be looking forwards, not living in the past. Sounds like a good reason to adopt the M9A3, which would retain the same manual of arms, magazines, and accessories, and wouldn't require a new contract since its an ECP. 
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Posted: 1/14/2015 11:36:38 AM EDT
[#43]
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<snip> P30L LEM would be the Excalibur the Mil is looking for. Is that available with both LEM and DAO w/ manual safety please-don't-kill-yourself triggers? |
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Posted: 1/14/2015 11:39:57 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
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The M9 is a fine pistol. But it is heavy, which reduces recoil lacks modularity, lacks a rail, which was addressed several years ago with the M9A1 and now with the M9A3 and the slide mounted safety/decocker is a detriment only to people who prefer to complain, it has served me just fine. The fact of the matter is that over half the inventory is ready to be replaced and there are better options out there. The price is a drop in the bucket compared to the budget and what we spend our money on. BLUF is that now is the time to implement a newer, more efficient pistol. We're supposed to be looking forwards, not living in the past. Sounds like a good reason to adopt the M9A3, which would retain the same manual of arms, magazines, and accessories, and wouldn't require a new contract since its an ECP. http://www.beretta.com/assets/12/19/GalleryMainDimensionId/M9A3_3.jpg http://www.beretta.com/assets/12/19/GalleryMainDimensionId/M9A3_Well.jpg While Beretta is touting the over-center safety for the M9A3, this is the only photo I've been able to find of one. Dunno if those others (like you posted) are different prototypes, or if the G variant uses the standard lever. 
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Posted: 1/14/2015 11:40:04 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
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The M9 is a fine pistol. But it is heavy, which reduces recoil lacks modularity, lacks a rail, which was addressed several years ago with the M9A1 and now with the M9A3 and the slide mounted safety/decocker is a detriment only to people who prefer to complain, it has served me just fine. The fact of the matter is that over half the inventory is ready to be replaced and there are better options out there. The price is a drop in the bucket compared to the budget and what we spend our money on. BLUF is that now is the time to implement a newer, more efficient pistol. We're supposed to be looking forwards, not living in the past. Sounds like a good reason to adopt the M9A3, which would retain the same manual of arms, magazines, and accessories, and wouldn't require a new contract since its an ECP. http://www.beretta.com/assets/12/19/GalleryMainDimensionId/M9A3_3.jpg http://www.beretta.com/assets/12/19/GalleryMainDimensionId/M9A3_Well.jpg Manual of arms and magazines would remain the same you would have to replace some holsters as was found by the Marines with the A1 |
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Posted: 1/14/2015 11:44:07 AM EDT
[#46]
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Manual of arms and magazines would remain the same you would have to replace some holsters as was found by the Marines with the A1 Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The M9 is a fine pistol. But it is heavy, which reduces recoil lacks modularity, lacks a rail, which was addressed several years ago with the M9A1 and now with the M9A3 and the slide mounted safety/decocker is a detriment only to people who prefer to complain, it has served me just fine. The fact of the matter is that over half the inventory is ready to be replaced and there are better options out there. The price is a drop in the bucket compared to the budget and what we spend our money on. BLUF is that now is the time to implement a newer, more efficient pistol. We're supposed to be looking forwards, not living in the past. Sounds like a good reason to adopt the M9A3, which would retain the same manual of arms, magazines, and accessories, and wouldn't require a new contract since its an ECP. http://www.beretta.com/assets/12/19/GalleryMainDimensionId/M9A3_3.jpg http://www.beretta.com/assets/12/19/GalleryMainDimensionId/M9A3_Well.jpg Manual of arms and magazines would remain the same you would have to replace some holsters as was found by the Marines with the A1 the issue ambidextrious holster I was issued in 08 was absolutely terrible. Everyone who actually left the wire bought their own. |
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Posted: 1/14/2015 11:45:34 AM EDT
[#47]
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http://images2.opticsplanet.com/365-240-ffffff/opplanet-crimson-trace-laser-grip-beretta-lg402m-main.jpg Instead of a visible laser use an IR. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Just want to say I was wrong. I was actually just convinced on modularity being important for Joe's sidearm. Night vision use was mentioned, and since our guys go in harms way after dark a lot, and they use night vision a lot, and it's a bitch to use iron sights with NVGs on, a rail for mounting an IR laser would make it a LOT more useful at night, especially if you were snooping around in some hadji's house. So now all we need is a bulletproof IR laser that's small enough to mount on the pistol and a holster that won't snag on it. PM Soldier, You've got your work cut out for you.
Or you could just turn it over to REF if they're still kicking down in Crystal. http://images2.opticsplanet.com/365-240-ffffff/opplanet-crimson-trace-laser-grip-beretta-lg402m-main.jpg Instead of a visible laser use an IR. Simple = good. 
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Posted: 1/14/2015 11:45:37 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Manual of arms and magazines would remain the same you would have to replace some holsters as was found by the Marines with the A1 Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The M9 is a fine pistol. But it is heavy, which reduces recoil lacks modularity, lacks a rail, which was addressed several years ago with the M9A1 and now with the M9A3 and the slide mounted safety/decocker is a detriment only to people who prefer to complain, it has served me just fine. The fact of the matter is that over half the inventory is ready to be replaced and there are better options out there. The price is a drop in the bucket compared to the budget and what we spend our money on. BLUF is that now is the time to implement a newer, more efficient pistol. We're supposed to be looking forwards, not living in the past. Sounds like a good reason to adopt the M9A3, which would retain the same manual of arms, magazines, and accessories, and wouldn't require a new contract since its an ECP. http://www.beretta.com/assets/12/19/GalleryMainDimensionId/M9A3_3.jpg http://www.beretta.com/assets/12/19/GalleryMainDimensionId/M9A3_Well.jpg Manual of arms and magazines would remain the same you would have to replace some holsters as was found by the Marines with the A1 |
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Posted: 1/14/2015 11:56:37 AM EDT
[#49]
The M9A3 is the only "different option" here that makes even a modicum of sense. If DoD really has rejected it, it tells me that they aren't any more serious about this that they were the JCP program.
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Posted: 1/14/2015 12:06:28 PM EDT
[#50]
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The M9A3 is the only "different option" here that makes even a modicum of sense. If DoD really has rejected it, it tells me that they aren't any more serious about this that they were the JCP program. To top it off, Beretta says the new M9A3 will cost less than the current M9. Seems like most of the people calling to ditch the M9 are either 45 or Glock zealots. |
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