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Posted: 11/17/2022 1:42:20 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That looks like the cockpit of the Millennium Falcon https://media.king5.com/assets/KING/images/26968157-c282-4ef8-b5a8-722fb7c3d8a9/26968157-c282-4ef8-b5a8-722fb7c3d8a9_1920x1080.png You have it backwards, the Falcon looks like a B-29, and that is very much so on purpose. |
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Posted: 11/17/2022 1:45:01 AM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 11/17/2022 2:06:44 AM EDT
[#3]
This is way off topic but with this happening I’ve been remembering a lot of my time years ago hanging out with the CAF and going to air shows. One person in particular stands out that I would love to find a good video (or ANY video for that matter) flying is Howard Pardue, specifically flying his Bearcat to the Phantom of the Opera overture. There’s a few on YouTube of him flying but I can’t find any with the music. It’s really bothering me with some history being lost in accidents and other history lost to deletion and internet memory holing... makes me feel like that never happened because nobody else seems to remember that routine but it was my absolute favorite as a kid. The choreography of the flying, the sound of the R2800 and the music blended perfectly...
Anyway, I’d love to see that again. And Lefty Gardners old routine in White Lightning as well, I remember him doing one last pass and an Immelmann off the runway extending the gear while inverted, rolling level and landing out of it. I miss those guys, air shows in the 80’s and 90’s were awesome |
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Posted: 11/17/2022 2:26:04 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is way off topic but with this happening I’ve been remembering a lot of my time years ago hanging out with the CAF and going to air shows. One person in particular stands out that I would love to find a good video (or ANY video for that matter) flying is Howard Pardue, specifically flying his Bearcat to the Phantom of the Opera overture. There’s a few on YouTube of him flying but I can’t find any with the music. It’s really bothering me with some history being lost in accidents and other history lost to deletion and internet memory holing... makes me feel like that never happened because nobody else seems to remember that routine but it was my absolute favorite as a kid. The choreography of the flying, the sound of the R2800 and the music blended perfectly... Anyway, I’d love to see that again. And Lefty Gardners old routine in White Lightning as well, I remember him doing one last pass and an Immelmann off the runway extending the gear while inverted, rolling level and landing out of it. I miss those guys, air shows in the 80’s and 90’s were awesome Lefty was a friend and the one that got me involved in the organization when I was a kid. |
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Posted: 11/17/2022 2:59:01 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lefty was a friend and the one that got me involved in the organization when I was a kid. @neshomamench Oh wow very cool! I think the last time I saw him fly was at the Brekenridge airshow sometime in the mid 90’s I met him a couple times, mostly I hung out with the local CAF squadron guys who all were mentors to me and like yourself got me involved and active in flying. I got to meet and fly with a lot of very awesome people back then. I learned to fly at Elmdale if that means anything to you Sigh, Coleman, Brekenridge, Midland, Fredericksburg and don’t forget pancakes at Colorado City on the 4th... fuuuuck I don’t miss Texas but I sure miss the flying and flyins |
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Posted: 11/17/2022 9:46:17 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That looks like the cockpit of the Millennium Falcon https://media.king5.com/assets/KING/images/26968157-c282-4ef8-b5a8-722fb7c3d8a9/26968157-c282-4ef8-b5a8-722fb7c3d8a9_1920x1080.png A lot of stuff in Star Wars was inspired by WWII. |
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Posted: 11/17/2022 9:50:08 AM EDT
[#7]
P-63 drilled straight into the B-17...
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Posted: 11/17/2022 1:01:25 PM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 11/17/2022 1:09:52 PM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 11/17/2022 1:13:57 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You have it backwards, the Falcon looks like a B-29, and that is very much so on purpose. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That looks like the cockpit of the Millennium Falcon https://media.king5.com/assets/KING/images/26968157-c282-4ef8-b5a8-722fb7c3d8a9/26968157-c282-4ef8-b5a8-722fb7c3d8a9_1920x1080.png You have it backwards, the Falcon looks like a B-29, and that is very much so on purpose. But, Star Wars happened long ago, in a galaxy far, far away. So, the Falcon came first and Boeing based the B-29 cockpit on renderings provided to them by aliens. |
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Posted: 11/17/2022 1:14:55 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryRIP Howard! Thanks for getting me into flying warbirds! |
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Posted: 11/17/2022 1:39:02 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But, Star Wars happened long ago, in a galaxy far, far away. So, the Falcon came first and Boeing based the B-29 cockpit on renderings provided to them by aliens. Well played. |
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Posted: 11/17/2022 1:41:27 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well played. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: But, Star Wars happened long ago, in a galaxy far, far away. So, the Falcon came first and Boeing based the B-29 cockpit on renderings provided to them by aliens. Well played. Thank you. I was hoping neither you or anyone else in thread who considered those lost as close friend would take offense. I dug through my pics on FB and it was Len and Terry who piloted TR the day I flew aboard her. |
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Posted: 11/17/2022 2:49:28 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Look familiar? Yes! Great pics thank you |
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Posted: 11/17/2022 3:12:22 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes! Great pics thank you Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: P-63 drilled straight into the B-17... Yes! Great pics thank you We don’t need more pics thank you… Facepalm.jpg |
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Posted: 11/17/2022 3:17:46 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We don’t need more pics thank you… Facepalm.jpg I suspect he intended to quote the post after the one he quoted. |
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Posted: 11/17/2022 3:27:00 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I suspect he intended to quote the post after the one he quoted. Quote HistoryQuoted: I suspect he intended to quote the post after the one he quoted. Facepalm indeed, sorry about that, you’re correct  Quoted: We don’t need more pics thank you… Facepalm.jpg Fixed it, sorry if you thought I meant disrespect, I just hit the wrong “quote” button |
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Posted: 11/17/2022 3:35:49 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryWas that when the CAF was in Harlingen? I always looked forward to being there when I was a kid. |
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Posted: 11/17/2022 3:57:03 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He's been an airline pilot since the early 80s. For my ARFCOM airline bros, FWIW, he appears on the jumpseat protection list. @MudEagle I had to research what the jump seat protection list was and found out about the SCAB list. It's interesting that you'd post that. Do all/most airline pilots follow this SCAB list, and if they do what does it entail? Banishment from the courtesy rides for pilots on the list if you're the PIC and wish to enforce it? |
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Posted: 11/17/2022 4:35:19 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Was that when the CAF was in Harlingen? I always looked forward to being there when I was a kid. Those were taken at an air show at E-Systems in Greenville, Texas sometime in the late 70s. The white P-38 is now the Red Bull P-38 in England ( I think) and the other is Rare Bear the Bearcat before it was painted in race colors. |
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Posted: 11/17/2022 4:55:03 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Those were taken at an air show at E-Systems in Greenville, Texas sometime in the late 70s. The white P-38 is now the Red Bull P-38 in England ( I think) and the other is Rare Bear the Bearcat before it was painted in race colors. Pardues Bearcat isn’t the same one as RareBear and was painted in that signature Marines scheme right up till he died in it several years back in Texas. RB is still flying and racing as far as I know. RIP Howard, loved watching him fly that, as well as his Wildcat, Corsair and Sea Fury... You are correct about Gardners P-38 White Lightning, it’s at Red Bull now Edit: speaking of RareBear, it’s newer paint schemes and four blade prop suck. Gold and white 90’s Connie propped RareBear is best RareBear. Fight me |
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Posted: 11/17/2022 5:48:48 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pardues Bearcat isn’t the same one as RareBear and was painted in that signature Marines scheme right up till he died in it several years back in Texas. RB is still flying and racing as far as I know. RIP Howard, loved watching him fly that, as well as his Wildcat, Corsair and Sea Fury... You are correct about Gardners P-38 White Lightning, it’s at Red Bull now Edit: speaking of RareBear, it’s newer paint schemes and four blade prop suck. Gold and white 90’s Connie propped RareBear is best RareBear. Fight me Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Those were taken at an air show at E-Systems in Greenville, Texas sometime in the late 70s. The white P-38 is now the Red Bull P-38 in England ( I think) and the other is Rare Bear the Bearcat before it was painted in race colors. Pardues Bearcat isn’t the same one as RareBear and was painted in that signature Marines scheme right up till he died in it several years back in Texas. RB is still flying and racing as far as I know. RIP Howard, loved watching him fly that, as well as his Wildcat, Corsair and Sea Fury... You are correct about Gardners P-38 White Lightning, it’s at Red Bull now Edit: speaking of RareBear, it’s newer paint schemes and four blade prop suck. Gold and white 90’s Connie propped RareBear is best RareBear. Fight me I liked Rare Bear best before the last wing clip. |
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Posted: 11/17/2022 6:59:25 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gold and white 90’s Connie propped RareBear is best RareBear. Fight me Ooooh, so close. The correct answer is the metallic green Thomason Aviation scheme. Note: Connie hub, P-3 blades. 
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Posted: 11/17/2022 7:02:37 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I had to research what the jump seat protection list was and found out about the SCAB list. It's interesting that you'd post that. Do all/most airline pilots follow this SCAB list, and if they do what does it entail? Banishment from the courtesy rides for pilots on the list if you're the PIC and wish to enforce it? At one time it was a list that had real teeth. Honestly, it means less and less each year since there are so few active pilots on that list, and fewer and fewer active pilots who even have a memory of what crossing the picket line did to the profession. When I was at the regionals, there were one or two guys that checked the list when a United pilot would get on board the jumpseat. At my current freight job, there is an EAL picket-line-crosser who is an active pilot and so far as I can tell nearly nobody cares at all. |
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Posted: 11/17/2022 7:04:07 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thank you. I was hoping neither you or anyone else in thread who considered those lost as close friend would take offense. I dug through my pics on FB and it was Len and Terry who piloted TR the day I flew aboard her. Humor is *always* appropriate. Gallows humor is almost always a welcome distraction when there are grim surroundings. |
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Posted: 11/17/2022 10:58:09 PM EDT
[#26]
Here's a related video that has also been making warbird rounds. From the 2010 Lackland Airfest.
In this vid, Tuna Hainline flying the Corsair has a close call with Texas Raiders at the entry to the showline after being cleared in by the airboss. Sounds eerily familiar.  F4U Corsair near miss collision with B-17 Airfest 2010 Lackland AFB |
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Posted: 11/17/2022 11:01:36 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here's a related video that has also been making warbird rounds. From the 2010 Lackland Airfest. In this vid, Tuna Hainline flying the Corsair has a close call with Texas Raiders at the entry to the showline after being cleared in by the airboss. Sounds eerily familiar.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkwOvaSIwhsDamn...little more bank and the 17 woulda been completely under the nose. Sadly, does seem a little...precognisent of the recent tragedy
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Posted: 11/17/2022 11:22:31 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here's a related video that has also been making warbird rounds. From the 2010 Lackland Airfest. In this vid, Tuna Hainline flying the Corsair has a close call with Texas Raiders at the entry to the showline after being cleared in by the airboss. Sounds eerily familiar. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkwOvaSIwhsA few questions. Do you know if it was the same air boss? Do you know if they did an in-depth review after it and figured out what went wrong? Final question would be if it resulted in any significant changes, but I think that answer is obvious now. I’m not a pilot, but I’ve stayed at a Holiday Inn enough times to know that it shouldn’t have been taken lightly in the aviation realm. |
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Posted: 11/17/2022 11:28:09 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A few questions. Do you know if it was the same air boss? Do you know if they did an in-depth review after it and figured out what went wrong? Final question would be if it resulted in any significant changes, but I think that answer is obvious now. I’m not a pilot, but I’ve stayed at a Holiday Inn enough times to know that it shouldn’t have been taken lightly in the aviation realm. I am told it was the father of the airboss at WoD, Ralph Royce, but I don't know that for a fact. A quick Google search didn't reveal any confirmation that Ralph was the airboss at Lackland. I don't know anything about debriefing or lessons learned from that show, no. |
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Posted: 11/17/2022 11:29:45 PM EDT
[#30]
Just an aside, this video from the same guy, of the same show, shows a little more of how things are supposed to work with an altitude deconflicted show: bombers in the low block, fighters in the high block.
Obviously, this plan had the same caveat as we've discussed could be the setup at Wings Over Dallas, and seems like it may have had the same risk that was narrowly averted.  B-29 "Fifi" & B-17 Warbirds Airfest 2010 San Antonio Lackland AFB |
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Posted: 11/17/2022 11:46:18 PM EDT
[#31]
Texas Raiders fact of the day:
TR, before being donated to the CAF, was the backdrop to Curt LeMay's retirement in 1965.  Attached File |
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Posted: 11/17/2022 11:58:52 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A lot of stuff in Star Wars was inspired by WWII. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That looks like the cockpit of the Millennium Falcon https://media.king5.com/assets/KING/images/26968157-c282-4ef8-b5a8-722fb7c3d8a9/26968157-c282-4ef8-b5a8-722fb7c3d8a9_1920x1080.png A lot of stuff in Star Wars was inspired by WWII. The Death Star raid is almost a scene-for-scene rip of The Dambusters:  Star Wars Origins: The Dam Busters - Side by Side Scene Comparison |
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Posted: 11/18/2022 12:02:22 AM EDT
[#33]
MudEagle, thank you for continuing to make posts such as those. I was afraid you would start avoiding this thread due to the doofuses and trolls.
The second video is great for showing the altitude differences, but I have to wonder if the practice of allowing the air boss to call the fighters into the lower bomber altitudes as you previously described is inherently unsafe, or if the altitude deconfliction isn’t enough. It looks like there’s too many limitations for a single person on the ground to keep everyone orchestrated if a pilot or two isn’t exacted where they’re supposed to be or going at the right speeds. I’d be curious what the radio traffic sounds like if a pilot is off in their flight path, altitude, or speed. I’d also be curious to know how far off a pilot has to be in those things before an air boss or other person on the ground could even tell. Wording it differently, I can’t imagine it being easy for a pilot in a poor visibility WWII fighter to keep track of exact ground landmarks, speeds, altitude, turning radius’s, and such while playing follow-the-leader. There has to be some level of error. How much of an error does it take for a person on the ground to spot it, if it’s even possible? |
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Posted: 11/18/2022 12:06:48 AM EDT
[#34]
RIP fellow aviators, been posting this a lot lately
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Posted: 11/18/2022 12:47:22 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here's a related video that has also been making warbird rounds. From the 2010 Lackland Airfest. In this vid, Tuna Hainline flying the Corsair has a close call with Texas Raiders at the entry to the showline after being cleared in by the airboss. Sounds eerily familiar. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkwOvaSIwhsWow good find, you’re right it’s eerily similar |
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Posted: 11/18/2022 1:41:03 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have to wonder if the practice of allowing the air boss to call the fighters into the lower bomber altitudes as you previously described is inherently unsafe I apologize for cutting what you wrote down to this one sentence; you ask several relevant questions, but I don't think it necessary to run down all the rabbit holes to really answer the core question. No, it isn't an unsafe plan as a concept. There can be reasonable mitigations to all the risk factors you mention, and it is a plan that is used often at dozens of airshows per year, year after year. We don't have a lot of data to show it is problematic. What it ultimately comes down to is how the plan is implemented and executed by the airboss and the participating pilots on any given show day. The air boss has a lot of flexibility in how he wants to run things. Pilots can be a mixed bag with respect to experience and competency. My suspicion is that the investigation is going to focus heavily on this airboss, his plan, and his execution of that plan during the show. The P-63 pilots' actions obviously warrant substantial analysis as well, although obviously we will never know precisely what he thought he knew and what he thought he saw. Between those two paths, there is a lot to look at. There might be ugly babies to be found, or there may just be tragic compounding errors...I dunno. |
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Posted: 11/18/2022 5:04:06 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wow good find, you’re right it’s eerily similar Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Here's a related video that has also been making warbird rounds. From the 2010 Lackland Airfest. In this vid, Tuna Hainline flying the Corsair has a close call with Texas Raiders at the entry to the showline after being cleared in by the airboss. Sounds eerily familiar. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkwOvaSIwhsWow good find, you’re right it’s eerily similar Holy Shit! |
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Posted: 11/18/2022 5:38:06 PM EDT
[#38]
P-63 pilot slowed down as the p-51s went to overtake the B-17 after being cleared. then it sped up to like 250kts....quickly too. You can see the lag and acceleration on the flight tracker. Then it didnt bank to turn until right before it crossed into the path of the B-17. It was about to overshoot the runway itself. He overtook the B-17 on a belly up banking turn. He didnt even play follow the P-51s. That pilot is at fault, and the fact that a hate the stupid P-63 design for so many reasons makes it even more iritating.
The B-17 was doing what it was told. The airboss could told the P-51s/P-63 to wait to overtake. Its not a race. There was NO RUSH. So many rules broken here. |
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Posted: 11/18/2022 5:46:27 PM EDT
[#39]
The only time I can recall being called down by AB was when we were recovering.
The lowest layer would land Everyone else transitions down a level. One pass while the lower group cleared the runway then you landed and taxied clear Flying in the Midwest I had lots of shows with the same airboss many times |
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Posted: 11/18/2022 6:16:14 PM EDT
[#40]
P51D Mustangs collision Accident Duxford Battle of Britain Air Show
Contact at (10:51)  P51D Mustangs collision Accident Duxford Battle of Britain Air Show 23sep17 409p & C47 & B |
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Posted: 11/18/2022 6:34:27 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thank you. I was hoping neither you or anyone else in thread who considered those lost as close friend would take offense. I dug through my pics on FB and it was Len and Terry who piloted TR the day I flew aboard her. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: But, Star Wars happened long ago, in a galaxy far, far away. So, the Falcon came first and Boeing based the B-29 cockpit on renderings provided to them by aliens. Well played. Thank you. I was hoping neither you or anyone else in thread who considered those lost as close friend would take offense. I dug through my pics on FB and it was Len and Terry who piloted TR the day I flew aboard her. Was that when they were in Huntsville in May of last year? |
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Posted: 11/18/2022 6:35:34 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @MudEagle I had to research what the jump seat protection list was and found out about the SCAB list. It's interesting that you'd post that. Do all/most airline pilots follow this SCAB list, and if they do what does it entail? Banishment from the courtesy rides for pilots on the list if you're the PIC and wish to enforce it? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: He's been an airline pilot since the early 80s. For my ARFCOM airline bros, FWIW, he appears on the jumpseat protection list. @MudEagle I had to research what the jump seat protection list was and found out about the SCAB list. It's interesting that you'd post that. Do all/most airline pilots follow this SCAB list, and if they do what does it entail? Banishment from the courtesy rides for pilots on the list if you're the PIC and wish to enforce it? It’s still in circulation but most have retired or lost medical. |
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Posted: 11/18/2022 7:00:42 PM EDT
[#43]
Funeral services for Terry Barker are tomorrow.
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Posted: 11/18/2022 7:00:55 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: P-63 pilot slowed down as the p-51s went to overtake the B-17 after being cleared. then it sped up to like 250kts....quickly too. You can see the lag and acceleration on the flight tracker. Then it didnt bank to turn until right before it crossed into the path of the B-17. It was about to overshoot the runway itself. He overtook the B-17 on a belly up banking turn. He didnt even play follow the P-51s. That pilot is at fault, and the fact that a hate the stupid P-63 design for so many reasons makes it even more iritating. The B-17 was doing what it was told. The airboss could told the P-51s/P-63 to wait to overtake. Its not a race. There was NO RUSH. So many rules broken here.  Attached File |
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Posted: 11/18/2022 8:05:02 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here's a related video that has also been making warbird rounds. From the 2010 Lackland Airfest. In this vid, Tuna Hainline flying the Corsair has a close call with Texas Raiders at the entry to the showline after being cleared in by the airboss. Sounds eerily familiar. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkwOvaSIwhsThat is pretty much the exact same accident as the recent one, with the exception that the Corsair wasn't in a belly up bank. He saw the bomber barely in time, and put in so much up elevator, JUST before they collided, that he generated vapor trails off his wingtips like a jet fighter. If he hadn't it would have been a collision. You couldn't pay me enough to fly in a group flying around like this with such little separation, so many opportunities to conflict, and a controller (air boss) who can essentially authorize direct conflicts between airplanes in a small patch of air with a 70kt or better speed differential. What you call "deconfliction plans" and "briefings" is a lot of planning and talking. You can mainly satisfy concerned people with it, but you can't buffalo Fate or probability. End results is where the rubber meets the road. Whether it's a "acceptable" risk or not is another discussion. That probably hinges on the perception of what constitutes an entertaining "show" for the show attendees. |
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Posted: 11/18/2022 8:09:34 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I apologize for cutting what you wrote down to this one sentence; you ask several relevant questions, but I don't think it necessary to run down all the rabbit holes to really answer the core question. No, it isn't an unsafe plan as a concept. There can be reasonable mitigations to all the risk factors you mention, and it is a plan that is used often at dozens of airshows per year, year after year. We don't have a lot of data to show it is problematic. What it ultimately comes down to is how the plan is implemented and executed by the airboss and the participating pilots on any given show day. The air boss has a lot of flexibility in how he wants to run things. Pilots can be a mixed bag with respect to experience and competency. My suspicion is that the investigation is going to focus heavily on this airboss, his plan, and his execution of that plan during the show. The P-63 pilots' actions obviously warrant substantial analysis as well, although obviously we will never know precisely what he thought he knew and what he thought he saw. Between those two paths, there is a lot to look at. There might be ugly babies to be found, or there may just be tragic compounding errors...I dunno. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I have to wonder if the practice of allowing the air boss to call the fighters into the lower bomber altitudes as you previously described is inherently unsafe I apologize for cutting what you wrote down to this one sentence; you ask several relevant questions, but I don't think it necessary to run down all the rabbit holes to really answer the core question. No, it isn't an unsafe plan as a concept. There can be reasonable mitigations to all the risk factors you mention, and it is a plan that is used often at dozens of airshows per year, year after year. We don't have a lot of data to show it is problematic. What it ultimately comes down to is how the plan is implemented and executed by the airboss and the participating pilots on any given show day. The air boss has a lot of flexibility in how he wants to run things. Pilots can be a mixed bag with respect to experience and competency. My suspicion is that the investigation is going to focus heavily on this airboss, his plan, and his execution of that plan during the show. The P-63 pilots' actions obviously warrant substantial analysis as well, although obviously we will never know precisely what he thought he knew and what he thought he saw. Between those two paths, there is a lot to look at. There might be ugly babies to be found, or there may just be tragic compounding errors...I dunno. I think what I am reading out of this, is that the practice of allowing 150kt and 250kt aircraft to share the same space is not "unsafe" because it comes down to the airboss not screwing up, and the pilots not screwing up ("how they execute the plan"). A system approach to safety requires that you not only consider the flight risks, and come up with solid and proven plans to mitigate those risks, but also that you view the operational situation as a whole and actively prevent the "human error" element by making a commitment to NOT make decisions or take actions to put pilots and aircraft into a position where the only thing maintaining safe operations is the Human Factor. The idea is that Human Beings Fuck Up. So, don't put together a plan that depends on human beings being perfect. "Authorizing fighters into the bomber block" and removing altitude separation between aircraft on a fixed show line with a significant speed differential is a direct contravention of a system approach to safety. I guess what I am saying is, just because the rules allow it, and just because a bunch of guys got together in the morning to talk about it, doesn't mean it magically becomes a safe practice. But like I said, the end results is what matters. So far we have one near collision, and now a nearly identical incident that was a collision with six dead men and two destroyed aircraft, both what appear visually to be an identical operational situation. ETA: I don't know how you set up a plan where a human being can't screw it up, just that in the ideal system, you eliminate the opportunities or at least as many as possible, and try to avoid adding opportunities. I'm talking ideals. And I don't know what is considered "acceptable" risk in an airshow environment. So there is that. My experience is as as a safety professional in a different mode. I'm just a hack ASEL pilot. |
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Posted: 11/18/2022 8:17:40 PM EDT
[#47]
Deleted
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Posted: 11/18/2022 9:32:54 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: Condolences and prayers ________ Before video, many visualized direct hit Grateful/astounded aircrews lived to document (innovative) design resilience https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-vSN7hq7/0/6675a76a/O/i-vSN7hq7.jpghttps://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-jVbXZ36/0/51856b2d/O/i-jVbXZ36.jpg https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-RWn6VRx/0/d2f4d1dd/X3/i-RWn6VRx-X3.jpghttps://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-Tzr28jn/0/2bcfceb1/X3/i-Tzr28jn-X3.jpg 124406. Not too far off from Memphis Belle (124485). |
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Posted: 11/21/2022 12:04:51 AM EDT
[#49]
Dan Gryder - CAF's Russ Royce: Not Really An Airboss
Starts at (32:00)  Failed To Load Title |
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Posted: 11/21/2022 12:27:13 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dan Gryder - CAF's Russ Royce: Not Really An Airboss Starts at (32:00) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7ksrmoYur0Dan Gryder.....oy vey, that guy. |
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