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Link Posted: 12/10/2022 12:27:02 PM EDT
[#1]
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At the point that a B21 is flying over China, the pilot doesn't have a base to land at anyway.
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Or "we're flying over China and don't want to risk a captured pilot"

At the point that a B21 is flying over China, the pilot doesn't have a base to land at anyway.

Link Posted: 12/10/2022 1:13:44 PM EDT
[#2]
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Or "we're flying over China and don't want to risk a captured pilot"
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The B2 and the United States military logistics to support it are just absolutely mind blowing.

Imagine being a Warrior in 2022. You grab a cup of coffee and kiss your wife goodbye and drive 20 minutes to your base in Missouri.
You get on your plane and just fly for like 12 hours, getting refueled along the way, halfway across the entire planet.
You're not terribly worried about getting shot down because they can't target the plane you're flying.
You bomb an enemy of your country.
You then fly back for another 12 hours.
You talk to some guys to debrief
You go back home to your wife.
Imagine if they start setting these things up for remote operation. You go to your fight ops building in Missouri, sit in your comfy cockpit chair, start your mission, set the autopilot, get a 15min relief every couple of hours to call the wife, husband, girlfriend, boyfriend, go check on the latest scores and highlights, and go home at the end of an 8 hour shift relieved by another pilot.

I expect the remote part is more for “You’re on the transpacific outbound leg of your combat mission.  You’ve taken off and hand the controls over to Whiteman so you can grab some good sleep for the 15 hours before you near the flot.”

Or "we're flying over China and don't want to risk a captured pilot"

Perhaps.  Although inflight refueling between a boom and an unmanned jet would be interesting to see.
Link Posted: 12/10/2022 1:22:16 PM EDT
[#3]
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Perhaps.  Although inflight refueling between a boom and an unmanned jet would be interesting to see.
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Like MQ-25?
Link Posted: 12/10/2022 1:23:32 PM EDT
[#4]
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Directed laser submarine maybe.



Directed laser Supercarrier I 100% is either operating or about to be.

And if not then it can’t be done. Seems like an absolute no fucking brainer to use directed laser defense on your biggest floating target that also happens to be power by a nuclear reactor.
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This was inevitable, and a no-brainer indeed.

They chloroformed the YAL-1 (747 Airborne Laser) before it became operational. The components and fuel source occupied almost the entire fuselage, and the mission parameter was absurd...getting an enormous, nearly un-defendable aircraft within range of a mobile launch site to hit a missile in it's boost phase. I still marvel at how they sold that concept to begin with.

Hopefully we're close to, if not already there on the energy required to knock down satellites. Aside from the defensive roll, that's where a supercarrier will pay off in spades, should our allies balk at installation on their soil. They will become a major provocation.
Link Posted: 12/10/2022 1:51:07 PM EDT
[#5]
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Perhaps.  Although inflight refueling between a boom and an unmanned jet would be interesting to see.
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Make them both unmanned.
Link Posted: 12/10/2022 1:56:15 PM EDT
[#6]
I seem to remember hearing somewhere that unmanned boom refueling is quite feasible. However, using the probe and drogue approach is a practical impossibility with available technology. There's just no way to predict exactly where the dangly little drogue is going to be.
Link Posted: 12/10/2022 2:02:44 PM EDT
[#7]
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Make them both unmanned.
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It's actually hard to believe at this stage in our technological evolution we haven't reached a "hands-off" refuel operation between the tank and the receiver yet. I've watched a couple of dozen inflights from the boom pod of a KC-135R. Seems like taking the human component out of the loop on either end would be a huge step forward. No slight meant to either pilots or boomers, but it appears to be an extraordinarily difficult task when one or the other is "off", for whatever reason.
Link Posted: 12/10/2022 2:05:49 PM EDT
[#8]
Link Posted: 12/10/2022 2:18:20 PM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:

Like MQ-25?
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Perhaps.  Although inflight refueling between a boom and an unmanned jet would be interesting to see.

Like MQ-25?

No GD said that's lockmart trash
Link Posted: 12/10/2022 2:45:00 PM EDT
[#10]
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Quoted:


It's actually hard to believe at this stage in our technological evolution we haven't reached a "hands-off" refuel operation between the tank and the receiver yet. I've watched a couple of dozen inflights from the boom pod of a KC-135R. Seems like taking the human component out of the loop on either end would be a huge step forward. No slight meant to either pilots or boomers, but it appears to be an extraordinarily difficult task when one or the other is "off", for whatever reason.
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Boeing could barely demonstrate a functional boom and remote ARO despite years of delay and billions in overruns. This should have been a slam dunk for them. Newer companies are poised to eat the lunch of the aerospace giants but they are working on projects that are more technically challenging and have stronger implications across the battlefield.
Link Posted: 12/10/2022 2:52:51 PM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:

Like MQ-25?
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Perhaps.  Although inflight refueling between a boom and an unmanned jet would be interesting to see.

Like MQ-25?

The MQ-25 is a probe and drogue tanker.  It's the easy job since they just dangle the drogue out for the receiver to hit.  The carrier ops is the real challenge on that jet.
Link Posted: 12/10/2022 2:56:03 PM EDT
[#12]
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"They" wanted 600 F-22s too.
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I hope they build more than 20 or so of them this time.

A craft incorporating the lessons of decades of B2 and F22 service. It's going to be interesting...

They want 100

"They" wanted 600 F-22s too.

That would've been badass, filling that order would pretty much guarantee continued development of the platform and a current ability to replace lost airframes.
Link Posted: 12/10/2022 2:59:18 PM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:


It's actually hard to believe at this stage in our technological evolution we haven't reached a "hands-off" refuel operation between the tank and the receiver yet. I've watched a couple of dozen inflights from the boom pod of a KC-135R. Seems like taking the human component out of the loop on either end would be a huge step forward. No slight meant to either pilots or boomers, but it appears to be an extraordinarily difficult task when one or the other is "off", for whatever reason.
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Quoted:
Quoted:

Make them both unmanned.


It's actually hard to believe at this stage in our technological evolution we haven't reached a "hands-off" refuel operation between the tank and the receiver yet. I've watched a couple of dozen inflights from the boom pod of a KC-135R. Seems like taking the human component out of the loop on either end would be a huge step forward. No slight meant to either pilots or boomers, but it appears to be an extraordinarily difficult task when one or the other is "off", for whatever reason.

Airbus has tested an MRTT with an automatic boom (link), NASA tested an automatic probe and drogue receiver (link), and Lockheed has tested an MQ-25 as a probe and drogue tanker (link).  I'm not aware of a test of an automatic flying boom receiver.
Link Posted: 12/10/2022 8:35:01 PM EDT
[#14]
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Boeing could barely demonstrate a functional boom and remote ARO despite years of delay and billions in overruns. This should have been a slam dunk for them. Newer companies are poised to eat the lunch of the aerospace giants but they are working on projects that are more technically challenging and have stronger implications across the battlefield.
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Small price to pay to get a Woke, ESG compliant, Diversity rich American corporation in exchange.
Link Posted: 12/10/2022 9:17:29 PM EDT
[#15]
I wonder how many Hatchet Munitions they could fit in a B21? 24x Hatchets can fit in a 500lb bomb carrier, and a B21 can probably carry quite a few 500lb...



Hatchet: Miniature Strike Munition
Link Posted: 12/10/2022 11:55:50 PM EDT
[#16]
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I wonder how many Hatchet Munitions they could fit in a B21? 24x Hatchets can fit in a 500lb bomb carrier, and a B21 can probably carry quite a few 500lb...

https://i.ibb.co/mCx7tGq/Hatchet-Mini-Munition.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-BefOSUAHI
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This thing is cool.
Link Posted: 12/11/2022 2:07:18 AM EDT
[#17]
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I wonder how many Hatchet Munitions they could fit in a B21? 24x Hatchets can fit in a 500lb bomb carrier, and a B21 can probably carry quite a few 500lb...

https://i.ibb.co/mCx7tGq/Hatchet-Mini-Munition.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-BefOSUAHI
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B2 supposedly can carry 80 500lb bombs... if the B21 is even half that, that's a whole lot of little booms.

Although, they'd probably have to make a specific magazine/dispenser thing for them for the bomb bay, but it'd still be a lot I would think.
Link Posted: 12/11/2022 2:20:30 AM EDT
[#18]
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Let me guess, $12 billion per copy?
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75% of the members here would tell you that it's actually $3billion, but the other $9billion goes into Bidens pocket, so "Fuck that plane and the Ukraine Too". And fuck our having won WW2 also, because those 2 bombs must have also cost too much and involved corruption!!
Link Posted: 12/11/2022 4:57:24 AM EDT
[#19]
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Quoted:

B2 supposedly can carry 80 500lb bombs... if the B21 is even half that, that's a whole lot of little booms.

Although, they'd probably have to make a specific magazine/dispenser thing for them for the bomb bay, but it'd still be a lot I would think.
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Quoted:
I wonder how many Hatchet Munitions they could fit in a B21? 24x Hatchets can fit in a 500lb bomb carrier, and a B21 can probably carry quite a few 500lb...

https://i.ibb.co/mCx7tGq/Hatchet-Mini-Munition.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-BefOSUAHI

B2 supposedly can carry 80 500lb bombs... if the B21 is even half that, that's a whole lot of little booms.

Although, they'd probably have to make a specific magazine/dispenser thing for them for the bomb bay, but it'd still be a lot I would think.


Since B21 and Hatchet are both Northrup products, I hope they develop a special dispenser for them.

If a single aircraft could dispense 200+ PGMs that would be a big deal.
Link Posted: 12/11/2022 10:47:29 AM EDT
[#20]
I'd wager that loitering in contested airspace long enough to dump 200 hatchets would not be a wise use of the B21.
Link Posted: 12/11/2022 11:00:09 AM EDT
[#21]
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I'd wager that loitering in contested airspace long enough to dump 200 hatchets would not be a wise use of the B21.
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Well, that all depends on whoes contesting the airspace? Is it the Chinese? The Iranians? The Russians? The French? Some third world nation like the Central African Republic whoes air defense system is little more than a handful of Cold War era launchers and four or five rusted out Mig-21s?
Link Posted: 12/11/2022 11:21:18 AM EDT
[#22]
Link Posted: 12/11/2022 11:01:14 PM EDT
[#23]
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I'd wager that loitering in contested airspace long enough to dump 200 hatchets would not be a wise use of the B21.
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I imagine it would be used in salvos of 20-200 Hatchets to strike area targets. Not as a single shot dispenser.

For example dumping 100 over an enemy military base, with 1x Hatchet assigned to every important sub-component of the base (radars, fuel depots, parked vehicles, etc.)


Link Posted: 12/11/2022 11:10:40 PM EDT
[#24]
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I imagine it would be used in salvos of 20-200 Hatchets to strike area targets. Not as a single shot dispenser.

For example dumping 100 over an enemy military base, with 1x Hatchet assigned to every important sub-component of the base (radars, fuel depots, parked vehicles, etc.)


https://www.thedrive.com/content-b/message-editor%2F1623616857629-16.png?auto=webp&optimize=high&quality=70&width=2018
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Quoted:
I'd wager that loitering in contested airspace long enough to dump 200 hatchets would not be a wise use of the B21.


I imagine it would be used in salvos of 20-200 Hatchets to strike area targets. Not as a single shot dispenser.

For example dumping 100 over an enemy military base, with 1x Hatchet assigned to every important sub-component of the base (radars, fuel depots, parked vehicles, etc.)


https://www.thedrive.com/content-b/message-editor%2F1623616857629-16.png?auto=webp&optimize=high&quality=70&width=2018

Yup. Although I'd imagine it will be more than 200. And more than a base... imagine entire city. Baghdad, night one, one pass with one bomber takes out... 4 or 5 hundred targets. Telecom junction boxes, radio antennas, radar sites. The truck used to service something essential. Every military aircraft sitting on the tarmac at the airport. A gantryway used to access a command center. Blow a hole in the wall of a hanger to destroy the controls for the hanger door on the backside of the wall. The granular level of destruction that could be wreaked is pretty mind boggling. And all that would happen in probably... a minute? Imagining a giant Calico magazine in the bomb bay spitting those suckers out, might be pretty rapid. I wonder if they have synchronization capability... put 2 or 3 bombs bracketing a hard target that detonate simultaneously to focus pressure inside the target. The possibilities are endless. I can see the AF actually not liking that sort of thing, it takes all the glamour out of planning a giant strike with 50 fighters.
Link Posted: 12/11/2022 11:19:10 PM EDT
[#25]
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Yup. Although I'd imagine it will be more than 200. And more than a base... imagine entire city. Baghdad, night one, one pass with one bomber takes out... 4 or 5 hundred targets. Telecom junction boxes, radio antennas, radar sites. The truck used to service something essential. Every military aircraft sitting on the tarmac at the airport. A gantryway used to access a command center. Blow a hole in the wall of a hanger to destroy the controls for the hanger door on the backside of the wall. The granular level of destruction that could be wreaked is pretty mind boggling. And all that would happen in probably... a minute? Imagining a giant Calico magazine in the bomb bay spitting those suckers out, might be pretty rapid. I wonder if they have synchronization capability... put 2 or 3 bombs bracketing a hard target that detonate simultaneously to focus pressure inside the target. The possibilities are endless. I can see the AF actually not liking that sort of thing, it takes all the glamour out of planning a giant strike with 50 fighters.
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Link Posted: 12/11/2022 11:22:26 PM EDT
[#26]
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I'd wager that loitering in contested airspace long enough to dump 200 hatchets would not be a wise use of the B21.
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Dump the dispenser that spits out all 200 at once after the plane is on its way out…
Link Posted: 12/11/2022 11:28:05 PM EDT
[#27]
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Quoted:


Dump the dispenser that spits out all 200 at once after the plane is on its way out…
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I'd wager that loitering in contested airspace long enough to dump 200 hatchets would not be a wise use of the B21.


Dump the dispenser that spits out all 200 at once after the plane is on its way out…

With those winglets on there I'll bet they have a pretty significant glide range when dropped from ~50,000 feet. The airplane will be miles away from both the drop point and the targets when the bombs start to hit.
Link Posted: 12/11/2022 11:30:18 PM EDT
[#28]
Something has to deliver those massive drone swarms.  Imagine a drone that can fold into the size of a brick.  About 30-40 per square foot.  3 5x5x10 canisters - 750 sq foot - 30k or so.  Perhaps you could firebomb a city in a single pass.  If one drone could frag 100 sq foot.  You could really saturate a area.
Link Posted: 12/12/2022 3:35:45 AM EDT
[#29]
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Quoted:

Imagining a giant Calico magazine in the bomb bay spitting those suckers out, might be pretty rapid. I wonder if they have synchronization capability... put 2 or 3 bombs bracketing a hard target that detonate simultaneously to focus pressure inside the target. The possibilities are endless.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'd wager that loitering in contested airspace long enough to dump 200 hatchets would not be a wise use of the B21.


I imagine it would be used in salvos of 20-200 Hatchets to strike area targets. Not as a single shot dispenser.

For example dumping 100 over an enemy military base, with 1x Hatchet assigned to every important sub-component of the base (radars, fuel depots, parked vehicles, etc.)


https://www.thedrive.com/content-b/message-editor%2F1623616857629-16.png?auto=webp&optimize=high&quality=70&width=2018

Imagining a giant Calico magazine in the bomb bay spitting those suckers out, might be pretty rapid. I wonder if they have synchronization capability... put 2 or 3 bombs bracketing a hard target that detonate simultaneously to focus pressure inside the target. The possibilities are endless.


Hopefully this concept becomes known as Project Calico.



On a somewhat related note, is Calico back in business?

https://calicofirearms.com/products/firearms/
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