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Posted: 10/20/2023 9:59:51 AM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think we did this one already in Vietnam  
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Posted: 10/20/2023 10:42:05 AM EST
[#2]
Carriers don’t have Aegis. But they do have lots of defensive capabilities. ESSM, RAM, CIDS. And good radars.
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Posted: 10/20/2023 6:03:02 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Carriers don’t have Aegis. But they do have lots of defensive capabilities. ESSM, RAM, CIDS. And good radars. Carriers have Aegis. It's on the ship right next to it 
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Posted: 10/20/2023 6:20:43 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Carriers have Aegis. It's on the ship right next to it Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Carriers don’t have Aegis. But they do have lots of defensive capabilities. ESSM, RAM, CIDS. And good radars. Carriers have Aegis. It's on the ship right next to it SSDS and Aegis will be merged into a common battle management system called Common Source Library |
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Posted: 10/20/2023 6:24:55 PM EST
[#5]
Everyone saying SM-3, hate to break it to you, but it doesn’t work like that. SM-2 or 6 , depending on range/speed, is more likely.
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Posted: 10/20/2023 6:26:03 PM EST
[#6]
Latest article says the ship shot down 15 drones and 4 cruise missiles with SM-2s. Seems like a waste to use expensive SM2s for the drones, no? Like using Patriot interceptors for a Lancet drone
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Posted: 10/21/2023 6:24:08 AM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Latest article says the ship shot down 15 drones and 4 cruise missiles with SM-2s. Seems like a waste to use expensive SM2s for the drones, no? Like using Patriot interceptors for a Lancet drone That is the magazine depth problem DEWs are meant to address. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 6:28:46 AM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is the magazine depth problem DEWs are meant to address. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Latest article says the ship shot down 15 drones and 4 cruise missiles with SM-2s. Seems like a waste to use expensive SM2s for the drones, no? Like using Patriot interceptors for a Lancet drone That is the magazine depth problem DEWs are meant to address. Directed energy weapons? I was expecting to see a mix of SM-2 and ESSM. I guess they didn’t get that close, which is good. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 6:32:12 AM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Latest article says the ship shot down 15 drones and 4 cruise missiles with SM-2s. Seems like a waste to use expensive SM2s for the drones, no? Like using Patriot interceptors for a Lancet drone In a limited situation like this it's a political victory. If we anchor a ship and we continue doing this for weeks/months it will be a huge money pit. I also worry we may need those missiles in the future with China so it's troubling if we run down our stockpile. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 6:38:43 AM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Directed energy weapons? I was expecting to see a mix of SM-2 and ESSM. I guess they didn’t get that close, which is good. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Latest article says the ship shot down 15 drones and 4 cruise missiles with SM-2s. Seems like a waste to use expensive SM2s for the drones, no? Like using Patriot interceptors for a Lancet drone That is the magazine depth problem DEWs are meant to address. Directed energy weapons? I was expecting to see a mix of SM-2 and ESSM. I guess they didn’t get that close, which is good. Yes, Directed Energy ESSM are relatively short-ranged and more for self-defense and the 2s are for area defense. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 6:43:44 AM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Everyone saying SM-3, hate to break it to you, but it doesn’t work like that. SM-2 or 6 , depending on range/speed, is more likely. The sources I read all claim SM-2s. The USS Carney had a busy day. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 6:46:30 AM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is the magazine depth problem DEWs are meant to address. It is not about the expense of the missile, but the cost of lives and damage it could inflict that counts. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 6:46:49 AM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The sources I read all claim SM-2s. The USS Carney had a busy day. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Everyone saying SM-3, hate to break it to you, but it doesn’t work like that. SM-2 or 6 , depending on range/speed, is more likely. The sources I read all claim SM-2s. The USS Carney had a busy day. 2s are for area IAMD, while 3s are for BMD defense. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 6:47:48 AM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Latest article says the ship shot down 15 drones and 4 cruise missiles with SM-2s. Seems like a waste to use expensive SM2s for the drones, no? Like using Patriot interceptors for a Lancet drone If those numbers are true I believe that sets the record for airborne targets destroyed by a single ship in a single engagement in the missile age. Possibly the all time record as South Dakota’s claim of 26 at Santa Cruz was wildly inflated, as was common in that era. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 6:48:23 AM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is not about the expense of the missile, but the cost of lives and damage it could inflict that counts. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That is the magazine depth problem DEWs are meant to address. It is not about the expense of the missile, but the cost of lives and damage it could inflict that counts. Does a tactical victory matter when you bankrupt the Nation? Empires don't fall from enemy action but fall from their economy collapsing. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 6:57:58 AM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In a limited situation like this it's a political victory. If we anchor a ship and we continue doing this for weeks/months it will be a huge money pit. I also worry we may need those missiles in the future with China so it's troubling if we run down our stockpile. Nothing to worry about, the production line is revving up already. We have 70 active Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyers with over 4200 assorted missiles. That is not even counting the cruisers and Zumwalts. Running out of missiles is the least of our problems at the moment. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 7:05:14 AM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 2s are for area IAMD, while 3s are for BMD defense. I know the difference. I said that was what the Navy claimed. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 7:13:16 AM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does a tactical victory matter when you bankrupt the Nation? Empires don't fall from enemy action but fall from their economy collapsing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: That is the magazine depth problem DEWs are meant to address. It is not about the expense of the missile, but the cost of lives and damage it could inflict that counts. Does a tactical victory matter when you bankrupt the Nation? Empires don't fall from enemy action but fall from their economy collapsing. Doing nothing and doing something will both inevitably lead to change. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 7:17:07 AM EST
[#19]
So where does Carney get the reloaded at?
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Posted: 10/21/2023 7:20:30 AM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does a tactical victory matter when you bankrupt the Nation? Empires don't fall from enemy action but fall from their economy collapsing. Dude, take a deep breath. Coming to the aid of our closest ally is not about empires. It is about mutual defense. Our people are in this and not by choice. Some desert rat chose to murder, rape, and butcher. You kill rats not make them pets. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 7:22:34 AM EST
[#21]
The pentagon briefing was weird on this as well.
It doesn't seem like anyone wants to say who fired said cruise missiles. Isn't Yemen also aligned with China? |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 7:38:50 AM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The pentagon briefing was weird on this as well. It doesn't seem like anyone wants to say who fired said cruise missiles. Isn't Yemen also aligned with China? Iran wanted to establish a base along the Red Sea in Yemen. It appears they did so. I don't believe Iran gave those missiles to Yemen but are the ones launching them. Others may differ but it doesn't matter, the cruise missiles are long range and only Iran has them. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 7:40:45 AM EST
[#23]
Iran needs to get tenderly loved. They keep testing us to see how much they can get away with.
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Posted: 10/21/2023 7:45:32 AM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nothing to worry about, the production line is revving up already. We have 70 active Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyers with over 4200 assorted missiles. That is not even counting the cruisers and Zumwalts. Running out of missiles is the least of our problems at the moment. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: In a limited situation like this it's a political victory. If we anchor a ship and we continue doing this for weeks/months it will be a huge money pit. I also worry we may need those missiles in the future with China so it's troubling if we run down our stockpile. Nothing to worry about, the production line is revving up already. We have 70 active Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyers with over 4200 assorted missiles. That is not even counting the cruisers and Zumwalts. Running out of missiles is the least of our problems at the moment. Funny I heard that about other munitions just a few months back. The bottom line, people who say that have very little knowleof the depth of the US magazines. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 8:02:51 AM EST
[#25]
The article seems to suggest that the LACM were brought down with SM2, but the drones were possibly brought down by some other means.
"The missiles fired by the Houthis were engaged by SM2 missiles carried aboard the USS Carney, a U.S. official told ABC News. No information was released about what weapons platform aboard the Carney brought down the 8 drones." Seems wasteful to me to use a standard missile on a drone. If they were really headed to Israel, give them a heads up and let them destroy the drones with their (much cheaper) systems. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 8:24:53 AM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, Directed Energy ESSM are relatively short-ranged and more for self-defense and the 2s are for area defense. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Latest article says the ship shot down 15 drones and 4 cruise missiles with SM-2s. Seems like a waste to use expensive SM2s for the drones, no? Like using Patriot interceptors for a Lancet drone That is the magazine depth problem DEWs are meant to address. Directed energy weapons? I was expecting to see a mix of SM-2 and ESSM. I guess they didn’t get that close, which is good. Yes, Directed Energy ESSM are relatively short-ranged and more for self-defense and the 2s are for area defense. I thought the latest block 2 ESSM has about 40 km range? Do we know the ranges these missiles and drones were at? |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 8:24:56 AM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The article seems to suggest that the LACM were brought down with SM2, but the drones were possibly brought down by some other means. "The missiles fired by the Houthis were engaged by SM2 missiles carried aboard the USS Carney, a U.S. official told ABC News. No information was released about what weapons platform aboard the Carney brought down the 8 drones." Seems wasteful to me to use a standard missile on a drone. If they were really headed to Israel, give them a heads up and let them destroy the drones with their (much cheaper) systems. I think it was a demonstration of capabilities to China and Russia. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 8:53:37 AM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Funny I heard that about other munitions just a few months back. The bottom line, people who say that have very little knowleof the depth of the US magazines. So you have personally counted all of them? ROFL. Handwringers are rarely experts either. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 8:56:41 AM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you have personally counted all of them? ROFL. Handwringers are rarely experts either. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Funny I heard that about other munitions just a few months back. The bottom line, people who say that have very little knowleof the depth of the US magazines. So you have personally counted all of them? ROFL. Handwringers are rarely experts either. Well that sort of what my last job involved. But hey how would that compare to a guy who left service decades ago? |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 8:56:56 AM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Funny, this is being reported all over the internet including fox. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Untrue title, but get them clicks! Funny, this is being reported all over the internet including fox. Content not coverage. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 8:57:07 AM EST
[#31]
Double
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Posted: 10/21/2023 4:39:23 PM EST
[#32]
Just something that popped in my head. But just by their nature interceptors cost way more than missiles that just attack. It'd be cool if Elon got into the IAD game and got his group of engineers together to bring down costs of these things.
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Posted: 10/21/2023 4:49:37 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The pentagon briefing was weird on this as well. It doesn't seem like anyone wants to say who fired said cruise missiles. Isn't Yemen also aligned with China? |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 5:33:31 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: SSDS and Aegis will be merged into a common battle management system called Common Source Library Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Carriers don’t have Aegis. But they do have lots of defensive capabilities. ESSM, RAM, CIDS. And good radars. Carriers have Aegis. It's on the ship right next to it SSDS and Aegis will be merged into a common battle management system called Common Source Library The rudimentary one line architecture photos make these systems seem similar to industrial DCS systems such as Yokogawa, Honeywell, Kongsberg, Foxboro, etc. Are the platform processor and data acquisition platforms US Military proprietary, or are they off the shelf hardware that could be hacked in similar style to the StuxNet virus set upon Iran years ago? I have worked across various industries on multiple PLC and DCS, SCADA systems and one I am familiar with is Kongsberg...I believe the Germans use that one for weapons platforms as well. In my realm, Kongsberg was station keeping on deep water platforms (dynamic positioning via GPS and ocean bottom transponders), fire and gas shutdown and alarm systems, and process control. We relied upon multi-tiered cyber security protocol including airgap which obviously the USN has, along with system monitoring software. This shit keeps me awake at night. It would be horrifying for a nation state to achieve a backdoor and turn these weapon systems on us during the heat of battle. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 5:59:05 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The rudimentary one line architecture photos make these systems seem similar to industrial DCS systems such as Yokogawa, Honeywell, Kongsberg, Foxboro, etc. Are the platform processor and data acquisition platforms US Military proprietary, or are they off the shelf hardware that could be hacked in similar style to the StuxNet virus set upon Iran years ago? I have worked across various industries on multiple PLC and DCS, SCADA systems and one I am familiar with is Kongsberg...I believe the Germans use that one for weapons platforms as well. In my realm, Kongsberg was station keeping on deep water platforms (dynamic positioning via GPS and ocean bottom transponders), fire and gas shutdown and alarm systems, and process control. We relied upon multi-tiered cyber security protocol including airgap which obviously the USN has, along with system monitoring software. This shit keeps me awake at night. It would be horrifying for a nation state to achieve a backdoor and turn these weapon systems on us during the heat of battle. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Carriers don’t have Aegis. But they do have lots of defensive capabilities. ESSM, RAM, CIDS. And good radars. Carriers have Aegis. It's on the ship right next to it SSDS and Aegis will be merged into a common battle management system called Common Source Library The rudimentary one line architecture photos make these systems seem similar to industrial DCS systems such as Yokogawa, Honeywell, Kongsberg, Foxboro, etc. Are the platform processor and data acquisition platforms US Military proprietary, or are they off the shelf hardware that could be hacked in similar style to the StuxNet virus set upon Iran years ago? I have worked across various industries on multiple PLC and DCS, SCADA systems and one I am familiar with is Kongsberg...I believe the Germans use that one for weapons platforms as well. In my realm, Kongsberg was station keeping on deep water platforms (dynamic positioning via GPS and ocean bottom transponders), fire and gas shutdown and alarm systems, and process control. We relied upon multi-tiered cyber security protocol including airgap which obviously the USN has, along with system monitoring software. This shit keeps me awake at night. It would be horrifying for a nation state to achieve a backdoor and turn these weapon systems on us during the heat of battle. It’s proprietary and the USN pays a ton for IA and cybersecurity on it, hopefully that has proofed it from a zero day event. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 6:27:21 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The rudimentary one line architecture photos make these systems seem similar to industrial DCS systems such as Yokogawa, Honeywell, Kongsberg, Foxboro, etc. Are the platform processor and data acquisition platforms US Military proprietary, or are they off the shelf hardware that could be hacked in similar style to the StuxNet virus set upon Iran years ago? I have worked across various industries on multiple PLC and DCS, SCADA systems and one I am familiar with is Kongsberg...I believe the Germans use that one for weapons platforms as well. In my realm, Kongsberg was station keeping on deep water platforms (dynamic positioning via GPS and ocean bottom transponders), fire and gas shutdown and alarm systems, and process control. We relied upon multi-tiered cyber security protocol including airgap which obviously the USN has, along with system monitoring software. This shit keeps me awake at night. It would be horrifying for a nation state to achieve a backdoor and turn these weapon systems on us during the heat of battle. It would be terrible if we've already demonstrated we can do that to them Oh wait, we have. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 6:43:49 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It would be terrible if we've already demonstrated we can do that to them Oh wait, we have. Link? 
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Posted: 10/21/2023 6:53:44 PM EST
[#38]
Do they use manpads on the ships?
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Posted: 10/21/2023 7:06:52 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do they use manpads on the ships? Not anymore. Personpads are the current issue. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 7:12:22 PM EST
[#40]
Thoughts on if they made a phalanx in 40mm air burst? Just put out a bunch of flak out, like a cloud and the incoming missile runs into it. ??
Seems odds of success would be better than trying to hit a missile with a bullet. 
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Posted: 10/21/2023 7:12:52 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not anymore. Personpads are the current issue. Guess I should have been more pc. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 7:24:27 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thoughts on if they made a phalanx in 40mm air burst? Just put out a bunch of flak out, like a cloud and the incoming missile runs into it. ?? Seems odds of success would be better than trying to hit a missile with a bullet. probably would be hell on drones, but 20mm seems to be getting replaced by SeaRam more and more often. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 7:28:19 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The pentagon briefing was weird on this as well. It doesn't seem like anyone wants to say who fired said cruise missiles. Isn't Yemen also aligned with China? I still think they were aiming at the ship, and "Israel" was the convenient excuse to make it seem like we're not getting into a hot war. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 7:33:44 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thoughts on if they made a phalanx in 40mm air burst? Just put out a bunch of flak out, like a cloud and the incoming missile runs into it. ?? Seems odds of success would be better than trying to hit a missile with a bullet. RAM is significantly better than CIWS. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 7:35:04 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thoughts on if they made a phalanx in 40mm air burst? Just put out a bunch of flak out, like a cloud and the incoming missile runs into it. ?? Seems odds of success would be better than trying to hit a missile with a bullet. They could license it from Sweden and put four of them together and just put a bunch of those mounts all over the place. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 7:35:45 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: RAM is significantly better than CIWS. Good to know |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 8:05:43 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Link? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It would be terrible if we've already demonstrated we can do that to them Oh wait, we have. Link? Operation orchard. The end of that particular rabbit hole isn't in the internet but it shouldn't be either. The journey is the destination. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 8:17:17 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So where does Carney get the reloaded at? 
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Posted: 10/21/2023 8:31:12 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Operation orchard. The end of that particular rabbit hole isn't in the internet but it shouldn't be either. The journey is the destination. Thank you Sir |
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Posted: 10/22/2023 8:23:25 AM EST
[#50]
  
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