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Posted: 7/30/2018 11:59:47 AM EDT
[#1]
How hard would it be to make an 80% upper?
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Posted: 7/30/2018 12:00:03 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This isn't even the first time they've done this, they ruled the BRP XMG upper was also a firearm in and of itself. This made it legal to use on a standard semi auto lower but illegal to use on a transferable M16 lower. |
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Posted: 7/30/2018 12:00:06 PM EDT
[#3]
Sounds stupid since the hammer and trigger are in the lower and not incorporated into the bolt action portion like a real bolt action rifle.
 Bolt action uppers have been sold for years without being classified as a firearm. |
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Posted: 7/30/2018 12:00:07 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How hard would it be to make an 80% upper? |
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Posted: 7/30/2018 12:00:10 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So before everyone reads the thread title and panics, the letter basically states that the ATF considers the reciever ON A BOLT ACTION to be the part which houses the bolt and barrel. This does not affect 99% of AR uppers. |
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Posted: 7/30/2018 12:00:14 PM EDT
[#6]
They are saying this because it's bolt action. The real reason is they don't want cheap, readily available imports.
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Posted: 7/30/2018 12:02:27 PM EDT
[#7]
And here starts Obama’s Cronys to “serialize” every firearm part like they are wanting to push through in... Cali?
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Posted: 7/30/2018 12:02:43 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, a bolt action upper contains a bolt, a handle to retract the bolt, and threads to screw the barrel on to. And this is different from a normal AR how? |
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Posted: 7/30/2018 12:04:07 PM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 7/30/2018 12:04:57 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 10 - 50 million. This would get thrown out as fast as it is written. So if there 100 million ars, there at least 100 million unserialized uppers. |
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Posted: 7/30/2018 12:05:45 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The only part that matters is what part contains the FCG. I'd venture to say the only reason the lower is the controlled part on an AR based firearms is due to the fact it has been the serialized component since 1959......note that on every new firearm using an "upper" where the barrel is attached, and a "lower" containing the FCG, the "upper" is the restricted, serialized component.......AR's are the exception to the rule After reading the actual letter, this appears to be an issue with importation of a specific upper by Safety Harbor Firearms.....wonder what is so different about it that it got the FTB's panties in a wad???? |
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Posted: 7/30/2018 12:07:07 PM EDT
[#12]
I think the part the ATF hasn't thought through is that if the upper is the firearm, then the lower is not a firearm. Therefore I could buy their lower through the mail, and an upper from another company and oops... non serialized firearm via mail order.
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Posted: 7/30/2018 12:08:26 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don’t let facts interrupt a potentially epic GD melt down. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So before everyone reads the thread title and panics, the letter basically states that the ATF considers the reciever ON A BOLT ACTION to be the part which houses the bolt and barrel. This does not affect 99% of AR uppers. Furthermore, it's a bureaucracy essentially writing law in defiance of the Constitution. No, I don't think PSA is going to require an FFL for my next upper, but it's still horribly unconstitutional and another small chip off our birthrite as Americans. |
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Posted: 7/30/2018 12:10:26 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sounds stupid since the hammer and trigger are in the lower and not incorporated into the bolt action portion like a real bolt action rifle. Bolt action uppers have been sold for years without being classified as a firearm. |
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Posted: 7/30/2018 12:17:07 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nope......FNC and AR-18/180 are good examples where there has been a back/forth over which is the "receiver"... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: The only part that matters is what part contains the FCG. When they are split  . UZI vs Cobray\MACs
Basically, ATF makes it up as they go. |
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Posted: 7/30/2018 12:17:18 PM EDT
[#16]
So when can I buy non serialized bolt action lowers?
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Posted: 7/30/2018 12:22:51 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So when can I buy non serialized bolt action lowers? |
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Posted: 7/30/2018 12:24:22 PM EDT
[#18]
Trump better put a stop to this.
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Posted: 7/30/2018 12:26:08 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And here starts Obama’s Cronys to “serialize” every firearm part like they are wanting to push through in... Cali? |
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Posted: 7/30/2018 12:27:48 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Read the definition of a firearm. It is a device that expels a projectile. That would be the upper. 
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Posted: 7/30/2018 12:28:15 PM EDT
[#21]
So what about a semi auto .50 cal upper?
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Posted: 7/30/2018 12:28:26 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, a bolt action upper contains a bolt, a handle to retract the bolt, and threads to screw the barrel on to. And this is different from a normal AR how? |
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Posted: 7/30/2018 12:30:18 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Gotta love letter writers This isn't the case like the overzealous cop in Colorado writing a letter about an AR brace. This was an importer submitting a sample for import approval, BATFE making a decision similar to the "shoestring is a machine gun" decision, and then sending a letter out to licensed manufacturers. |
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Posted: 7/30/2018 12:35:19 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nope......FNC and AR-18/180 are good examples where there has been a back/forth over which is the "receiver"... I'd venture to say the only reason the lower is the controlled part on an AR based firearms is due to the fact it has been the serialized component since 1959......note that on every new firearm using an "upper" where the barrel is attached, and a "lower" containing the FCG, the "upper" is the restricted, serialized component.......AR's are the exception to the rule After reading the actual letter, this appears to be an issue with importation of a specific upper by Safety Harbor Firearms.....wonder what is so different about it that it got the FTB's panties in a wad???? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: The only part that matters is what part contains the FCG. I'd venture to say the only reason the lower is the controlled part on an AR based firearms is due to the fact it has been the serialized component since 1959......note that on every new firearm using an "upper" where the barrel is attached, and a "lower" containing the FCG, the "upper" is the restricted, serialized component.......AR's are the exception to the rule After reading the actual letter, this appears to be an issue with importation of a specific upper by Safety Harbor Firearms.....wonder what is so different about it that it got the FTB's panties in a wad???? Looking at SHF's web site, they are not taking any orders for their SHTF .50 rifles/uppers because of "ATF complications." |
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Posted: 7/30/2018 12:39:00 PM EDT
[#25]
Rodeo clowns come to mind.
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Posted: 7/30/2018 12:43:26 PM EDT
[#26]
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Posted: 7/30/2018 12:43:42 PM EDT
[#27]
Hmm that doesn’t seem very well thought through by the atf. So are lowers no longer the SN part? I’m assuming lowers will no longer be considered firearms? What will be the SN part on the upper? The receiver itself? So can people swap out barrels, etc still? And if lowers are no longer firearms, keep in mind the ungodly amount of uppers out there with no SN. The atf is opening the door to completely “unregistered” firearms. (I know that’s not the correct term but you know what I mean). Go buy a lower at the hardware store without a background check and slap a pre existing upper on it. Viola, a dangerous ghost gun. Liberals should be outraged.
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Posted: 7/30/2018 12:43:49 PM EDT
[#28]
Bush's fault
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Posted: 7/30/2018 12:44:30 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So before everyone reads the thread title and panics, the letter basically states that the ATF considers the reciever ON A BOLT ACTION to be the part which houses the bolt and barrel. This does not affect 99% of AR uppers. |
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Posted: 7/30/2018 12:44:44 PM EDT
[#30]
no more bullshit, no more compromise
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Posted: 7/30/2018 12:47:15 PM EDT
[#31]
WTF ATF? What are you doing? Is they ATF smoking crack?
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Posted: 7/30/2018 12:51:16 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So I need two firearms to build my firearm? |
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Posted: 7/30/2018 12:51:25 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hmm that doesn’t seem very well thought through by the atf. So are lowers no longer the SN part? I’m assuming lowers will no longer be considered firearms? What will be the SN part on the upper? The receiver itself? So can people swap out barrels, etc still? And if lowers are no longer firearms, keep in mind the ungodly amount of uppers out there with no SN. The atf is opening the door to completely “unregistered” firearms. (I know that’s not the correct term but you know what I mean). Go buy a lower at the hardware store without a background check and slap a pre existing upper on it. Viola, a dangerous ghost gun. Liberals should be outraged. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hmm that doesn’t seem very well thought through by the atf. So are lowers no longer the SN part? I’m assuming lowers will no longer be considered firearms? What will be the SN part on the upper? The receiver itself? So can people swap out barrels, etc still? And if lowers are no longer firearms, keep in mind the ungodly amount of uppers out there with no SN. The atf is opening the door to completely “unregistered” firearms. (I know that’s not the correct term but you know what I mean). Go buy a lower at the hardware store without a background check and slap a pre existing upper on it. Viola, a dangerous ghost gun. Liberals should be outraged. It's amazing they every considered the lower the serialized part given the way the law is written. I honestly think back in the 50s they didnt anticipate the firearm being taken apart and uppers swapped so they just put the serial number on the lower, where there is more room, and the BATF said that is fine. When you look at any current assault rifle design the upper is always the serialized part. I think the law is a gray area when it comes to the AR because each half contains a piece of the law. Note the law also says "or" so you could pick which one. The qualifier though is where it could get you given it say threaded. That part of a firearm which provides housing for the hammer, bolt or breechblock, and firing mechanism, and which is usually threaded at its forward portion to receive the barrel. 27 CFR § 478.11. My understanding is the manufacturer makes the case to the BATF and then they tell you if they agree. |
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Posted: 7/30/2018 12:54:32 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So before everyone reads the thread title and panics, the letter basically states that the ATF considers the reciever ON A BOLT ACTION to be the part which houses the bolt and barrel. This does not affect 99% of AR uppers. This doesn't change anything. OP wanted to start a panic. |
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Posted: 7/30/2018 12:56:26 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Next logical step is to make all barrels a firearm. That would cover every thing. It is also what they use to tie a gun to a crime. |
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Posted: 7/30/2018 12:57:04 PM EDT
[#36]
Did the NRA give them this bright idea?
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Posted: 7/30/2018 12:58:30 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well... no shit. This doesn't change anything. OP wanted to start a panic. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So before everyone reads the thread title and panics, the letter basically states that the ATF considers the reciever ON A BOLT ACTION to be the part which houses the bolt and barrel. This does not affect 99% of AR uppers. This doesn't change anything. OP wanted to start a panic. That part of a firearm which provides housing for the hammer, bolt or breechblock, and firing mechanism, and which is usually threaded at its forward portion to receive the barrel. 27 CFR § 478.11. |
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Posted: 7/30/2018 12:58:52 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hmm that doesn’t seem very well thought through by the atf. So are lowers no longer the SN part? I’m assuming lowers will no longer be considered firearms? What will be the SN part on the upper? The receiver itself? So can people swap out barrels, etc still? And if lowers are no longer firearms, keep in mind the ungodly amount of uppers out there with no SN. The atf is opening the door to completely “unregistered” firearms. (I know that’s not the correct term but you know what I mean). Go buy a lower at the hardware store without a background check and slap a pre existing upper on it. Viola, a dangerous ghost gun. Liberals should be outraged. The letter states that these uppers may be considered serialized parts......none of this applies to conventional AR uppers....and it doesn't change the status of AR lowers... essentially....if you're going to build a .50 with one of the uppers in question (or one of similar design), you'll now have a serialized lower, and a serialized upper.....both considered controlled components |
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Posted: 7/30/2018 1:00:29 PM EDT
[#39]
FBATFE
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Posted: 7/30/2018 1:02:08 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So I need two firearms to build my firearm? Probably going to need all 4 firearms too make your firearm. 
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Posted: 7/30/2018 1:03:47 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, a bolt action upper contains a bolt, a handle to retract the bolt, and threads to screw the barrel on to. And this is different from a normal AR how? |
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Posted: 7/30/2018 1:04:49 PM EDT
[#42]
I don't think my 18'' 5 shot SHTF upper has a s\n.
I'll take a look and report back ASAP! |
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Posted: 7/30/2018 1:05:23 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So before everyone reads the thread title and panics, the letter basically states that the ATF considers the reciever ON A BOLT ACTION to be the part which houses the bolt and barrel. This does not affect 99% of AR uppers. |
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Posted: 7/30/2018 1:08:11 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So I need two firearms to build my firearm? Would a short upper be a separate SBR? |
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Posted: 7/30/2018 1:09:15 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The only part that matters is what part contains the FCG. |
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Posted: 7/30/2018 1:11:05 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Linked article says .50 uppers. Not all uppers. If bolt actions traditionally serialized the action, can’t they say semi autos “traditionally” do same? That same standard can be applied to M1 Garand, SKS, FAL, AK47, and any other number of rifles that pre-date the AR platform and serialized the portion of the rifle that contains the action/bolt/barrel extension. This is a bullshit letter and SHTF needs to contest this finding vigorously. |
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Posted: 7/30/2018 1:11:49 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think my 18'' 5 shot SHTF upper has a s\n. I'll take a look and report back ASAP! |
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Posted: 7/30/2018 1:12:29 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fuck the ATF |
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Posted: 7/30/2018 1:12:34 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nope......FNC and AR-18/180 are good examples where there has been a back/forth over which is the "receiver"... I'd venture to say the only reason the lower is the controlled part on an AR based firearms is due to the fact it has been the serialized component since 1959......note that on every new firearm using an "upper" where the barrel is attached, and a "lower" containing the FCG, the "upper" is the restricted, serialized component.......AR's are the exception to the rule |
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Posted: 7/30/2018 1:13:01 PM EDT
[#50]
They will never stop. It may take decades but they will never stop until they have all the guns.
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