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Posted: 2/6/2023 3:24:44 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryIve used these out of G17 and they gave quite impressive results. If I could afford to snag a few boxes in 9 mm I would in a heartbeat. They are almost unobtanium anymore. Now I carry the .40 165gr version in a G23. I picked up a G19 barrel but have not shot it yet. I will find a G32 barrel too to round out the trifecta one of these days. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 5:12:19 AM EDT
[#2]
Factory- 147 gr HST
Boutique- Underwood 147 gr +P+ GoldDot |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 5:45:01 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Any HP from a reputable manufacturer will do fine. No handgun ammo is ideal. This ^ I use 124+p golden Sabres in my carry guns, but realistically, shot placement is much more important than the bullet type. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 8:59:44 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Reality: 9mm is 9mm. JHP is typically better than FMJ, but it’s a minute difference. Target won’t know the difference, and shot placement matters more. Just to be sure I'm clear on this "minute difference" and "target won't know the difference" part, it's your contention that for defensive purposes there really isn't any difference between JHP and FMJ? (And no, I'm not going to stand in front of your FMJ and let you shoot me with it to prove anything.) |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 9:21:27 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: After watching the prosecution of Kyle Rittenhouse, how can you doubt that it wouldn't be on the table? And while not in America... "It hits the target, it opens up, it creates six talons, and these talons are sharp," Mangena said. "It cuts through the organs of a human being." -SAPS ballistics expert, Captain Chris Mangena, testifying about the use of "Black Talon" ammunition in the Oscar Pistorius murder trial. So you give two examples… one from FMJ and one for JHP. This seems to add credence to “it doesn’t matter what you carry, someone will try and make an issue out of it.” What does that have to do with the Mass Ayoob level derp of “carry what the local cops carry”? |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 7:20:16 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you give two examples… one from FMJ and one for JHP. This seems to add credence to “it doesn’t matter what you carry, someone will try and make an issue out of it.” Quote HistoryQuoted: So you give two examples… one from FMJ and one for JHP. This seems to add credence to “it doesn’t matter what you carry, someone will try and make an issue out of it.” What does that have to do with the Mass Ayoob level derp of “carry what the local cops carry”? Remind us all how many times you've been called as an expert witness in court cases involving lethal force. How firearm training companies have you founded, and how many years have they been in operation? How many books have you written on the use of lethal force? How many magazine articles have you had published on the use of firearms? And provide some links cause I'd like to read them. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 7:21:07 PM EDT
[#7]
I use 124 gr HST
In .40 I use 180 hr HST |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 7:50:28 PM EDT
[#8]
I carry and issue my guys Federal HST +P, love it.
A close second would be Speer Gold Dot G2. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 7:53:40 PM EDT
[#9]
Luckily I got a good stash of 147gr Ranger T (the old stuff in the gold box)
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Posted: 2/6/2023 7:56:19 PM EDT
[#10]
I carry HST 147 gr. The ballistics tests I've seen didn't convince me that the +P loads provided enough benefit to offset the additional blast and recoil.
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Posted: 2/6/2023 7:57:08 PM EDT
[#11]
I like Underwood +P+ 90 grain flying screwdrivers
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Posted: 2/6/2023 7:58:23 PM EDT
[#12]
I use good’ole Federal 9BP and 9BPLE.
A tried and true classic. Plus, I’ve never had an issue with it feeding in anything I used it in and I have lots of it. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 8:02:02 PM EDT
[#13]
I like the Hornady +P Critical Duty.
It seems to feed great in every pistol I shot it out of. Some of the larger hollow points don't feed as reliably in some guns. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 8:02:28 PM EDT
[#14]
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Posted: 2/6/2023 10:21:33 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your pendulum has swung from "has that ever happened in any American courtroom" to "it doesn't matter what you carry, someone will try to make an issue out of it." At first, you doubt it's ever happened, and now you're convinced that it always happens. I didn't quote Massad Ayoob, so I don't need to defend his positions, and they don't need defending as they stand on their own merit. Remind us all how many times you've been called as an expert witness in court cases involving lethal force. How firearm training companies have you founded, and how many years have they been in operation? How many books have you written on the use of lethal force? How many magazine articles have you had published on the use of firearms? And provide some links cause I'd like to read them. My question remains: Has it ever occurred in a court of law where the fact someone was carrying the same ammunition as the local police department matter at all… or was even mentioned? As far as Mas goes… He remains a tool because he continues to spout nonsense. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 10:33:05 PM EDT
[#16]
Either HST or Gold Dot. At one time Federal and Speer worked together to develop the bullet technology for the HST and the Gold Dot. Either one will serve you fine. In reality, any name brand SD round will probably be fine for carry.
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Posted: 2/6/2023 10:40:07 PM EDT
[#17]
Ranger or Gold Dots
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Posted: 2/6/2023 10:45:06 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My question remains: Has it ever occurred in a court of law where the fact someone was carrying the same ammunition as the local police department matter at all… or was even mentioned? As far as Mas goes… He remains a tool because he continues to spout nonsense. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Your pendulum has swung from "has that ever happened in any American courtroom" to "it doesn't matter what you carry, someone will try to make an issue out of it." At first, you doubt it's ever happened, and now you're convinced that it always happens. I didn't quote Massad Ayoob, so I don't need to defend his positions, and they don't need defending as they stand on their own merit. Remind us all how many times you've been called as an expert witness in court cases involving lethal force. How firearm training companies have you founded, and how many years have they been in operation? How many books have you written on the use of lethal force? How many magazine articles have you had published on the use of firearms? And provide some links cause I'd like to read them. My question remains: Has it ever occurred in a court of law where the fact someone was carrying the same ammunition as the local police department matter at all… or was even mentioned? As far as Mas goes… He remains a tool because he continues to spout nonsense. Just my opinion but I have investigated numerous shootings and murders and police action shootings. It really doesn’t matter what round you use. Attorneys will make a big deal out of anything , hollow point, FMJ, caliber anything they think they can sway the uneducated or naive jury with. Sadly the prosecution as well. I am of the opinion to carry what you are comfortable with. |
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Posted: 2/6/2023 10:59:04 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just to be sure I'm clear on this "minute difference" and "target won't know the difference" part, it's your contention that for defensive purposes there really isn't any difference between JHP and FMJ? (And no, I'm not going to stand in front of your FMJ and let you shoot me with it to prove anything.) Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Reality: 9mm is 9mm. JHP is typically better than FMJ, but it’s a minute difference. Target won’t know the difference, and shot placement matters more. Just to be sure I'm clear on this "minute difference" and "target won't know the difference" part, it's your contention that for defensive purposes there really isn't any difference between JHP and FMJ? (And no, I'm not going to stand in front of your FMJ and let you shoot me with it to prove anything.) FMJ means a straight 9mm hole, unless it hits bone. JHP means the hole is slightly larger in diameter. Better, yeah. Better enough to warrant the cost difference? That’s up to the individual, at the worst, JHP becomes a very expensive FMJ if they fail to expand. Me, I’ve got PMC hollow points that are cheap enough to train with, and they worked well enough on backyard pests that I’m fairly confident that they’ll work as intended. And if not… Well, a dozen 9mm-sized holes will be about as effective as a dozen 12mm-sized holes. Now to dissuade the whole “POOOORS!” Schtick… I bought an absolute fuckload of 124 HST back when SGAmmo had them for $20/50, and a bit under $400 for a case. Bought more after they jumped up to $30/50, but didn’t get cases like I used to. I’m about out of them now, and I refuse to spend what they’re charging for HST’s and gold dots these days, though it does irk me that I’m getting PMC for the same price I used to get HST. |
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Posted: 2/7/2023 10:15:56 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My question remains: Has it ever occurred in a court of law where the fact someone was carrying the same ammunition as the local police department matter at all… or was even mentioned? Quote HistoryQuoted: My question remains: Has it ever occurred in a court of law where the fact someone was carrying the same ammunition as the local police department matter at all… or was even mentioned? As far as Mas goes… He remains a tool because he continues to spout nonsense. |
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Posted: 2/7/2023 10:18:28 AM EDT
[#21]
I'm a fan of Federal 147gr HST
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Posted: 2/7/2023 10:25:02 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If they were carrying the same ammo as local law enforcement, and the prosecution realizes it, then it'll never be brought up in court. Thus there's no transcript of it. You failed to answer any of the previous questions about your curriculum vitae as it pertains to self-defense and litigation. Is it because you're shy, or that it doesn't exist? The first part sounds like some made-up bullshit. If prosecutors are looking for this and simply don’t mention it when they find out the defendant is using the same ammunition as the local PD, why are they not mentioning it every time someone is using different ammunition? As far as the second part, I have written for various gun rags, but not on those subjects. On the other hand, I’ve been in >0 shootings so I guess that puts me ahead of Mas. ??????? |
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Posted: 2/7/2023 12:22:55 PM EDT
[#23]
Shot placement and sufficient penetration are paramount, all else (including expansion) is secondary. Lots of previously mentioned good choices available, just be aware that all handguns are relatively poor 'stoppers' regardless of caliber or bullet used.
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