that shit was all over the place in Key West, like ervery single conveincestore had a gigantic section of lube...like 10 feet of shelf space

That is good to know.  I usually end up having to hunt around a bit to get the high mileage synthetics in the weight I use, but knowing it is not a big deal helps.  Thanks for that.

If OP has a DI car, and is worried about buildup from the PCV system, maybe a catch can is appropriate. They seem to be worthwhile on DI vehicles.

Years back a Walmart was selling that stuff in the gun section. A customer had to point out what kind of lube it really was.

lmao....classic

Nah.

When you're in that sorta mood you gotta go up to the industrial grade - and keep it safe with food grade.


I recommend this: https://www.clarionlubricants.com/do/category/MACHINERY_GREASE

Keeps all that machinery WELL lubricated.

The story goes a bit deeper. I heard of this from a local radio show called "The Men's Room" on KISW about 10 years ago.

I've gone 6-9k for the changes on my 2013 F-150 3.5EB. I am for the 7-7.5k mark with full synthetic.

Varies more so due to timing on getting the oil changes done vs running a specific mileage. The 9k's have been times of non-stop highway miles.

I'm over 160k so far with no engine issues.

In direct injection only engines fuel does not touch the backside of the intake valves where the problem we've been discussing exists.  You still don't get that about OP's engine.  In a properly operating GDI only engine fuel will not see the backside of the intake valves.  Fuel DOES NOT cause the issue we've been discussing.

Here's an automotive engineer talking about GDI engines.  Oh shit, he even mentions the noack test in regards to prevention of the issue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrLNDgrIw3U

Here's a different engineer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66C4YIiwRbM

Being an oil salesman or engineer or whatever doesn't make you an expert on engines or even on the best oil for a specific engine.

If that's not good enough for you here's a much newer article from the SAE talking specifically about the issue you've admitted to never hearing about:

https://www.jstor.org/stable/26273486?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents

Yeah my longest drain was driving Ohio -> Texas,  Texas -> Ohio for hog hunting. Then driving around for a LONG time before I got it changed because my shop was backed up.

Wants to be taken seriously.  Can't hotlink.

What is EGR, for 1000, Alex.





Edit: Gasoline EGR image here:




Given, that is an image of a diesel engine's emissions systems.  However GDI/GDI-T engines and diesel engines operate in a similar way.

You take exhaust gases and recycle them through the intake, via EGR - Exhaust Gas Recirculation.

Which, the 2.3L Ecoboost is equipped with.

The 'best' oil for the application, is naturally a full synthetic, GF6/SP oil.  Which has been on the shelves officially since may.

You may find some residual SN+ engine oils out there since Sept 9th, 2017.

The SN+ Formulation, AGAIN, was being blended as early as Nov 2016 - depending on who's additive package you were using.


IF, you are putting 6+ year old oil, is a newer engine - you're pretty dumb. As you might have more issues with that oil, then just deposit formations from NOACK. (Actually, your NOACK will probably go down.)

But, as addressed by the Chevron paper - the GM Dexos 1 gen 2 vs SN standard of N13% vs N15% - has no major differences.  Thus, why GM is only propose a N12.5% for Dexos 1 Gen 3, to released, who the fuck knows at this point. (Already extremely over due.)


To your last paper, I've addressed now in every reply. From the JSTOR you linked:



Alright - let's break that down.

1. Engine oil.  Yes, this is the same issue found in DPF's and Emission control parts on diesel engines.  Your ZDDP turns into ash, as it is 'unburnt' - it's a metal - Zinc, it cannot burn.  Every engine has some amount of blow by - the 2.3L Ecoboost is more than others - Also previously addressed with me saying "the major issue with the 2.3L is fuel dilution" - if you have fuel dilution, you have blow by. It works both ways.

So you're burning off engine oil, which creates a Zinc deposit in ash.  This is not directly, or indirectly caused by NOACK.  As Noack is the lighter ends of the base oil being burned off.

1B. Base oil is not perfect, especially group 3 products. As, let's go through the process of making it:



Basic distillation refinery process. So in a group 3 base oils, you will have light ends and your heavier ends still in it.


It then goes through the hydrocracking process and a stripping unit, after another fractionation column.  Again, still not perfect.



So your base oil isn't perfect.

1C.   Additive blending process - your additives are mostly polymers, followed by metals and your different anti-wear elements.  To make these soluble, you have to often hit them with a solvent. Most of this solvent is 'cooked off' in the blending process. However, some residual remains. As well, the polymers often have a residual affect of solvent from their manufacturing process.  Which is why even with a PAO, or Group III+ base oil - you do not get N0%.  You get high single digits - N7%-N9% - depending on who's additive package your dealing with.

So inclusion to point 1 - you have deposit formations from your Zinc and other additives that are not combustible, that travel through the EGR and form deposits on the intake.  This is also why you cannot have high zinc engine oils anymore, because the Zinc will poison the catalyst in your exhaust.



Next point.

2. Wear items from your engine - what does motor oil do? It cools, cleans and collects. Your filter will not strip out particles typically under 5 microns well. These will also slip by in blow by situations.  These metals, as the above zinc, do not burn in the combustion process.  Thus, continue to create deposits. This is pretty straight forward.  You can see this through standard oil analysis. I don't have much more to add here, because - this is pretty fucking common sense.



Next point.

3. Unburned fuel.  Remember the MMT additive I talked about?  MMT is synthesized from Triethylaluminium - a metal. Making a Organometallic compound - which is, MMT.   Again, metals do not burn off in the combustion process. This will lead to despot formations, that develop through the EGR system.

3b. Ethanol leads to an incomplete combustion process, which acts an amplifier for all the above.  The metals then take on carbon deposits from the unburnt fuel, which makes it sticky ash. These are your 'carbon' deposit build ups.   The whole idea of an EGR, is to 're-combust' the exhaust gases for a more complete burn.  However, when you run them through the intake, this happens.

- You burn a multitude more fuel, then you do oil. So how much MMT you pass through the combustion chamber, builds up, Much faster than burning off of oil.



So, add these all together and you have a snowballing affect for carbon deposit development in some engines.  Some engines are worse than other engines - there is no real way to solve all these without disassembly of the engine.  The original API SN addressed some of this problem, over the former API SM product - which was introduced in 2004.  This a combination of a physical engineering problem (emissions) combined with a fuel problem, combined with the chemistry of oil.

Saying "OMG ITS ALL NOACK" is, pretty dumb. Your own paper says that right on it's cover sheet.


And I'm looking at an oil analysis report from a 2019 2.3L Ecoboost in a ford ranger, literally, as we speak.

So yeah. I'm a fucking moron about this.

I've been using Liqui Moly in my VW Audi cars for years where they have been DI a lot longer than American cars.

Liqui Moly has a oil called Molygen for that 2.3 application.   It has a sub 10% Noack.  

My Audi 2.0 with 100k miles had some buildup on the valves and the runner / splitters, but it was very minimal

Very antidotal but I have been happy with it for years, but it Liqui Moly does cost a little more.

Mobil 1 in everything I have owned for the last 20 or so years and never a problem with any of them and all of them went well over 100K.

@Foxtrot08
Previously you said with a 5k interval which brand full synthetic wouldn't matter.
What you posted here makes me ponder going with a 3k interval.

Whatever weight my cars require from fcp euro. It costs me $21 to ship used oil back to them then they refund me the cost of the new oil. With shipping!

From what I've seen on that engine, with a full synthetic - you can safely go 5-7K miles. It will drop from a 5w30 to a 5w20 viscosity in that time period due to fuel dilution.

But really your choice.


Without oil analysis - because every engine is different - it's hard to tell.

My best advice - is sample your engine oil and see the results for yourself.  Your engine might be very tight, with very little fuel dilution.


The 2.3L is specifically, sort of all over the board. Some applications - specifically the rangers - have a ton of fuel dilution.  

Other applications like the transit for some reason, it's fine.  Not sure if it's the shifting patterns, or the fuel curve tuning they have different.

But again - sample, find out, go from there.  Worth the $25.

Can someone recommend an oil for my specific application?

I have an off-road racing motorcycle that is seeing piston wear at the bottom of the piston skirt.  The engine has a 100mm big bore piston with a stroked crank / short rod bottom end.  The short rod results in increased piston speed / thrust.

I change the oil every 3 to 5 hours, and replace the piston at 100 hours.  The recommended oil is 10W-40.
After seeing the wear, I switched to Rotella T6 5W-40, but I’m still seeing piston skirt wear.

Recommendations?  Thinking of trying Pensoil Ultimate 0W-40, but perhaps the wear is unavoidable…

Attached File

Redline Motorcyle / Powersports.

That significant skirt wear.   I would probably look at the 10w40 or the powersports 10w50 because of your over bore.

The 50w @ Op temp might provide a thicker film strength keeping the piston skirt off.  

Do you have any idea on your operation temps?

And, NOW, I'm in!  Love the question, and I have several bikes to apply the answer to.

lol wut?

last time I was driving alot, using a good oil, blackstone was telling me to go 15k on the change intervals. that was with a VQ35HR and a Hemi 5.7. 85% highway miles doing like 60mph

holy shit dude....I would look into some type of coating on the skirts

Also Rotella is shit

also that wear looks like its just occuring where the fingers of the jug do down into the crank case. looks like that pistin skirt is too long for the rpms you are turning

Wow, Mobil sure got their monies worth on their advertising campaign.

List is too vague. Every oil mfg produces at least some swill. Nobody on your list is notably better than anyone else, depending on the exact product.

Mobil 1 isn't a true full synthetic oil.

@foxtrot08 has been over this a million times good lord!! Do a search!

The real question I want to know from him is what the best oil filter he thinks his. For general productions pick ups and cars.

I know Fram is shit. I usually use the extended distance Mobil 1 and For my 2011 Silverado 5.3 and I’m probably over spending and could save way more by buying own AC Delco but I don’t know if it’s as good?

If you can find the Fram in Ultra, that's the good stuff, honestly.

Foxtrot08, I’ve got a new F-450 diesel ordered (it should show up sometime next year )

What’s the go to POL setup for those trucks?

Ask me when you get it.

Right now is difficult to get any HDMO products in any volume.

Thank you for the recommendation!  The 50 weight oil and increasing the rebuild frequency to 80 hours might be my plan.  Engine coolant temps are typically 170 to 195 degrees and never peaks above 220 degrees.

Hmm.  Yeah, I’d look at either the 10w40 or 10w50.

The 50 shouldn’t cause any issues physically. If anything if anything it will create some hydrodynamic friction.  Going up a grade typically isn’t a problem.  

So yeah, I’d look at that.

Great, my timing is spot on once again.

The last couple of diesel trucks I bought were in early 2008 and another in 2012.

Motorcraft 10w30 is really good.

I prefer Kendall Super DXA.  But it’s currently really hard to get.

Well, the aftermarket piston has a 3mm longer skirt than the stock piston and plunges an additional 3mm deeper towards the bottom of the cylinder thanks to the stroked crank.  It must be a coincidence that the wear is 6mm long..  The skirt is moly coated.  Oh well, the engine was built in 2010 and has been rebuilt 6 times (600 hours) with no explosions so far. Attached File

FCP is a euro car parts distributor here in CT. I buy all my oem parts for my Volvos from them. They’ve got some good folks working there and this must be a service they provide

My 06 has 225k and my 07 just hit 189k. Both run like new. 2.5L I5 TC. I’ve been using T6 5-30. The price has sky rocketed. I’m switching to the Kendall or the PenUP.

Any of the top name brand oils in the proper viscosity and with the correct specifications for your car will be fine. I am not a fan of the extended 10 or 15k drain intervals and would cut them in half.

I'm kinda scared to go full 10W-50.  What if i mixed in 50% 10W-40?

Lubrication

Doesn’t work like that.

But really the 10w50 sounds like it’s what you need. But the 10w40 redline will be a much thicker film then the Rotella T6.

@LV1976
Gun lubes, those threads are... special.

that makes sense now. For what ever reason they decided to make the skirt fatter and longer. I am not sure why, they should actually have shortened it 3-4mm, but keep it fat and coat it. I have to imagine that at the RPMs you are running you are getting a lot of wear on the skirt from the piston wanted to oscillate.

so you send them old oil and you get new oil back?

Is your Kluber technical guy Australian by any chance and are you talking about Barrierta for the grease?

Extra thick oil also adds drag when hot as well, which can shorten the life of the oil. In most grease applications this will be a bad thing. There is little point in a lamda above 3 or kappa above 4.

I do have a question for you.  I was told today that the factory that makes Shell Aeroshell 6, burned down. As far as grease factories burning down, there was the Chemtool one in Rockford near me that is no more.  Was there another one or was Chemtool making Aeroshell 6?

Surprised no one has said Amsoil signature series.

well besides myself

Is Amsoil SS not a good oil?

I have a 2021 2.7 F-150

Sometimes the changes are not slight.  I was not personally involved, but Pentosin changed their power steering fluid for "better" cold weather performance.  No one mentioned it to the seal manufacturer. I was told oil sprayed everywhere. oops

On what basis do you think the Wix XP is a great filter?   For instance, have you seen efficiency test results for them and their competitors?  

Also, do you know what water cooled turbos are?  They have been around for a while.  I did have a turbo timer on my 82 Saab though.  My 87 944T had an electric water pump for the turbo that kept going after shut off if it was hot enough.

I came here to say it, Amsoil.

FIFY

Chemtool was probably making aeroshell.  

I’m not 100% sure because I’m no longer a Shell distributor or aeroshell. But from the letters I’ve seen, chances are Chemtool made it.

There’s several large grease shortages out there.