So we would fund every welfare lazy POS and illegal crapping out kids like a conveyor belt for life, house them, and do it in perpetuity til they die with the ''extra'' money?

Or would we hand it out to every country with their hand out that wants us to bail them out?

Rules for thee, but not for me.

I have much more in 401k that I have paid in SS-PONZI.
I'm gonna cash out, pay the penalty, pay the taxes and pack those HF cases I got full of cash.
Fuck earning interest, I WANT my cash


Edit:
Might just become a cocaine cowboy.

What does b**mss mean?

...

I think he's trying to be cute and say boomas' (boomers).

They don't want to devalue my dollars because that reduces their tax haul, when they screw with the tax rules. If they crash the stock market that will crash their fortunes (I guess they could move their investments to non-stock market vehicles ahead of time, but it won't have the growth, I assume).

There are investment vehicles outside of 401k and IRA. The point behind them was to give people incentive to save for their own retirement, particularly with tax incentives and to make it easy having the employer do it and manage it. As a bonus, the congress critters' investments grow faster because there is a steady influx of large proportions being injected into the stock market every week.

I’ve always been suspicious about the promise of the Roth. “Oh, you can definitely trust us not to tax withdrawals made decades in the future. Just go ahead and fund it with after tax dollars and we definitely won’t touch that money when you pull it from the account in retirement.”

For the record I have a Roth IRA and some Roth 401k holdings in addition to regular 401k. But there’s a benefit to taking the tax break today with the pre-tax 401k, instead of accepting a government promise.

Some of you guys!  No wonder we never win shit!  

Social Security being straight out cut off 100% tomorrow will NEVER fucking fly, regardless of how much we wish it would.  So maybe come up with a Plan B like trying to keep it afloat for a while and then phasing it out gradually, or revamping the hell out of it.  A good start would be to stop giving it to people who never paid in.  Spousal benefits?  Nope.  Etc.  

Honestly if we trimmed down welfare we would undoubtedly have the money to pay SS instead.  I would much rather float SS than welfare programs.  Get a fucking job….  Generations of people living on the dole is unsustainable.  They deserve to be cut first.  People on SS actually did pay into the ponzi scheme at least, so they should be cut off last.  


And it is funny how some of you think that “millionaires don’t use 401k’s!”  Wrong.  Very wrong.  Most millionaires have good paying jobs and actually use 401k, 457b, 403b, and similar programs to stash money.  There are tons of people on the bogleheads forum who have several million and up in their traditional or roth retirement accounts.  True- some also have taxable investment accounts as well.  
(Hell- Peter Thiel has a Roth IRA worth billions.  Talk about a smart move.)

However- “millionaire” ain’t what it used to be either.  These days most are just upper middle class folks who worked hard, or were in high paying tech jobs.  Only poor folks think a million dollars today = wealthy.  (My personal thought is that a net worth of say 5-10 million is a realistic cutoff for that designation.)

Oh yeah- here is something else we can cut first as well- ACA (Obamacare).  Tons of people retire with millions in their accounts, then stage their actual taxable income so low that they get free healthcare.  It is bullshit to give free healthcare to slackers who never worked, and bullshit to give it to people who have a shitload of money.  It is totally different than SS- you just get subsidized healthcare regardless of your contribution to taxes or anything else- basically just more welfare.  Cut it first.  Medicare is bullshit as well, but at least people paid into it!

TLDR- lots of shit that need to be cut first.  SS is bullshit, but might be somewhat fixable if we actually tried.  Politically acceptable solutions would mean a phase out or fix, not a complete elimination.

TLDR part 2- people are stupid and don’t plan.  So long as they are allowed to vote, SS isn’t going away….  (Yeah we all know that having slacker non-contributing people deciding political stuff is unsustainable as well….what else is new).

TLDR part 3- fuck any plans to mess with 401k type retirement plans.  Idiots need to remember that they can push pretty far, but that would wake up a lot of people.  The kind of people who actually keep society running…


Fuck, I am so tired of communists and socialists, and all their stupid fucking ideas.  They are just like children, everything they do is just another damned mess that an adult has to follow behind to clean it up.  I don’t like the idea of fixing or phasing out SS, but now that we are in this situation, that is the only realistic fix.  Otherwise we just kick the can down the road, or eventually learn which half of the population is gonna wipe out the other half, because communism always has that kind of an outcome.

I rarely agree with you, but on this I do.

Like a lot of things in life, with a Roth account you spin the wheel and take your chances…

Even better is a HSA that is 100% tax free coming and going as long as it's spent on health care.

If the company you work for offers one, especially with some money they kick in, you're dumb not to take advantage of it, you WILL use it at some point down the road and you never lose it.

At some point, I guarantee they will either tax it before it goes in or out, I'm betting before you put it in.

It's also a hell of a way to fund your health insurance costs if you retire before 65.

Oh yeah, I’m an HSA whore. Maxing that thing, investing the funds, and keeping electronic records of medical expenses paid out of pocket.

Bipartisan? 2 fucking hacks trying to deflect form the government wanting more tax money.

Annual social security spending in 2022 was 1.244 TRILLION dollars.  That's $1,244,000,000,000. That works out to about 3.4 billion per day.

So the 95 billion sent to Ukraine would have funded social security in 2022 for about 27 days.  Less than a month.

I'm not that old, I remember reading about it in history books.

What the .Gov giveth the .Gov can taketh away. THIS ids why we never had ANY investments inside a .Gov investment vehicle. We paid our tax and saved the rest in things the .GOV can't change the rules on.

Attached File

Quoted:
So they abandoned Nationalize the 401k plan?
The plan where every American will get an account whether they contribute to it or not, and guarantee an x amount will be put into your account and a guarantee % in earnings.

This man has been paying attention.

In 2012 I learned that the Government has spent $80 billion in tax breaks which are contained in what you refer to as your 401k/IRA.  With a "re-jiggering" of these tax subsidies, the government would be able to provide an additional $600/month to all Americans - whether they have availed themselves of taking advantage of a 401K or IRA program.  

Said another way, the Government owns your 401K/IRA and they are going to take it and give to others.  Don't believe me?  Hear it in this Congressional testimony:

F2PNI

The commies have been after 401k for decades. American retirement is the single largest pool of cash in the world. They want it bad and they want all retirement. Including pensions.

They want all home equity too.

Wait.  You actually believe that they are going to give it back to you?  ??????

Do you believe in Santa clause?  Palm reading?  ??????

@mousehunter

Uh that 250k per year stashed is going to compound on itself, so ballpark at 10%, that is about 14.5 million. Factor inflation @5% and that is a spendint power of 7 million bucks. Or if they put in a dividend bearing investment a cool 550-650k per
Year. Not private jet rich but solidly nice beach house


SImply "cutting of SS"aint going to fly, it cant. the "i want mine i paid in" and the "im collecting " voting block will effectivly prevent it. A phased approach to downing out put while keeping input stable could do effectivly the same thing over 40 years.
Simply keep SS inflation increases 2% below inflation. keep contributions stable. 2% per year will be  400 bucks for most people on it, or 36 bucks a month. Over 20 years it puts a HUGE dent in it, after 40 it has cut the bill in half. keep it up another 40 and problem solved.
(plus a loaf of bread in 2100 is likely going ot be a whole SS check anyway so who cares).

How about we axe gubbmint pensions entirely, make it mirror the private sector.

If they wanted to save the planet they’d cut the farm bill which would kill monocropping for subsidy payments and push us back into real gasoline and local family farms.

Democrats never make decisions that don’t result in more government dependency.

Attached File

So, the usual pitch for a centralized, government control-based "solution" where earner-savers get less while simultaneously becoming dependants, just like the welfare kid poppers - the latter gaining more unearned income - & subject to the income being supplied by government. Of course, if said government were to go rogue &, say, start cutting that income off for political &/or social wrongthink, well, the fuck you gonna do boudit?

It's a fuck-you plan. Because fuck you, that's why.

excellent post and alot of truth.

a million isn't what a million use to be with $4 dollar gas and $7 milk, with a middle class house costing $250-500K

hellyeahbrother.gif

Never happen. We can't cut spending on stuff like this. Not even a little. There's a reason it's called a "Third Rail" issue. The spending will continue until the economy collapses.

Lets just abolish democrats and save a lot of time and effort.

No surprise, all according to plan.  And someone describing someone else as "right leaning" who favors more taxes is just a panderer.

I'm ok with removing spousal benefits where the wife draws half of the husbands benefits for nothing.
I am NOT ok with removing the Widows Benefits where the husband dies and the wife gets zero.

Google "peter thiel Roth IRA...

I agree, put it on the same bill for establishing UBI & canceling all student loan debt & VA benefits as well.

Hillary originally wanted the feds to take over all retirement accounts. The Dems really want access to more cash. Although now that the budegt don't matter they just print money.

Yes.

Now let's do congress insider trading and post-government "consultant" jobs.

These ass holes always frame these arguments against the "rich" like it's a race of people.

How else can you own nothing and be happy

Unless you are Peter Thiel.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-peter-thiel-turned-2-000-in-a-roth-ira-into-5-000-000-000-11624551401

Did anybody perform any research to determine if what the article is saying is correct?

Let me help... the article is factually incorrect, because Pre-tax contributions that you make to an employer-sponsored retirement plan such as a 401(k) reduce your income tax, but they do not reduce your Social Security tax.

So, abolishing 401K's would not fix or change a damn thing in regards to fixing SS.

What's the writers real purpose? I have no idea; but they should be publicly shamed for being an "assistant under secretary of dumbasses" and not knowing the existing law!

Accountant

It means you're looking at a drama queen.

If we are shutting down social security benefits, are you guys also including military entitlements and VA healthcare with it?

I see a lot of badges in favor of starving the old people out.  All government handouts right?

Its nonsense - 401/457 accounts are already taxed. First by a required minimum distribution after a certain age, which is taxed at the regular rate, as well as taxes if you dare to withdraw any of it. Withdrawals are noted on a 1099 sent to the IRS. These 'pre-tax' accounts were started decades ago to foster savings and were widely used. We started contributing to them when we were both still working but the kids were no longer dependents. I have used mine to buy two cars by taking out the car payment every month. I have already paid a ton of interest on these payments, and the fund at least partially recovers over the 2 or more years that I usually keep a car after getting the title, so I can keep doing this.
I say the government always gets their taxes on these funds under the current rules because at some point somebody is going to cash out - so attempting to tax money that we have not withdrawn would be pointless - they will get more in the end by simply being patient. Now if they close these programs to new employees that would be one thing, but I don't think they can change anything on the existing plans.

Handouts yes, SS is paid into so it is not a handout.

Yes, yes they have.

Yes, a million times yes. Kill the welfare state across the board, old and young.