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Posted: 8/17/2021 2:01:04 AM EDT
[#1]
 Failed To Load Title Educational video |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 8:28:22 AM EDT
[#2]
Are we going to see any level of a response from the FATF before the late August legal proceeding (or whatever it's called)?
If I'm the FATF and SOOOO convinced I'm right, and I got a letter telling me to promptly fuck myself instead of shutting down operations....I'd think a response in the form of a letter, fine, raid, etc. would be a no-brainer for me. Now if I know I'm on shaky ground, maybe I shut the hell up and/or send an apology letter for my fuckery. |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 8:56:14 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are we going to see any level of a response from the FATF before the late August legal proceeding (or whatever it's called)? If I'm the FATF and SOOOO convinced I'm right, and I got a letter telling me to promptly fuck myself instead of shutting down operations....I'd think a response in the form of a letter, fine, raid, etc. would be a no-brainer for me. Now if I know I'm on shaky ground, maybe I shut the hell up and/or send an apology letter for my fuckery. If they're prepared to go the distance, I expect a raid this week, as RB is still shipping triggers. I don't have the confidence that some here do that RB will prevail, mostly based on the fact that the bump stock ban was more of a reach than this, yet they are still banned. |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 9:02:50 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If they're prepared to go the distance, I expect a raid this week, as RB is still shipping triggers. I don't have the confidence that some here do that RB will prevail, mostly based on the fact that the bump stock ban was more of a reach than this, yet they are still banned. But the Bumpstock "ban" was more of an opinion/suggestion....no? What court cases/prosecutions have there been enforcing it?? |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 9:09:02 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But the Bumpstock "ban" was more of an opinion/suggestion....no? What court cases/prosecutions have there been enforcing it?? I believe that there has been one court victory against the ban that was immediately appealed. There have been several losses in court. IMHO, this should have been overturned immediately, but it hasn't been, so I'm pretty jaded on any kind of victory for RB in litigation. |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 9:09:19 AM EDT
[#6]
Tagged so I am on the current page.
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Posted: 8/17/2021 9:10:37 AM EDT
[#7]
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Posted: 8/17/2021 9:13:53 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just this manufacturer, or does it apply to all binary triggers? What does binary have to do with it? |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 9:34:02 AM EDT
[#9]
Between this, the receiver proposal and the brace proposal, there are a whole lot of legal precedents hanging in the wind this fall.
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Posted: 8/17/2021 9:56:09 AM EDT
[#10]
Does the BATF go all "hide your puppy" on RBT?
Does RBT have it's records sealed and hidden? Does RBT give up it's customer base? Does this force the BATF to go to ALL the CC companies, ALL the online processors and ALL the CC card machine processors to get the records of ALL who purchased? Tune in later this month to find out on "As the Single Trigger Pull Turns" Brought to you by Freedom Loving Americans. Yes, Freedom Loving Americans....we put the PEW.....in PEW PEW PEW. |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 11:07:33 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Between this, the receiver proposal and the brace proposal, there are a whole lot of legal precedents hanging in the wind this fall. Those legal precedents, and many prior, could all be lumped into 'ignoring the law'. If they can make it up as they go, then many will ignore it as they go. Food for thought. |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 11:24:15 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Those legal precedents, and many prior, could all be lumped into 'ignoring the law'. If they can make it up as they go, then many will ignore it as they go. Food for thought. That's kinda how it's been though. Look back at the 94 ban and even the 922r.... gun owners were blood thirsty to shut each other down in the name of following the law. I got a TON of pushback that way when I first got into guns during that time back in the late 90's early 2000's and that was partially due to my own ignorance and just trying to educate myself. Fast forward....how many people are driving to other states to buy standard mags, holding on to bump stocks, continuing to buy FRT's, etc....ALL flying in the face of tyrannical rule? Are there pockets of fudd's still getting hung up on chastising those that go against the government's wishes? Sure. But by in large we as gun owning freedom lovers have thumbed our noses at the lunacy and are more comfortable talking/joking about doing what we want. So yes, the future will be interesting, but on the ignoring as they go.... we're already there. Now it's on the tyrants to force the issue and an individual/collective "response" from the citizenry. |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 11:33:17 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's kinda how it's been though. Look back at the 94 ban and even the 922r.... gun owners were blood thirsty to shut each other down in the name of following the law. I got a TON of pushback that way when I first got into guns during that time back in the late 90's early 2000's and that was partially due to my own ignorance and just trying to educate myself. Fast forward....how many people are driving to other states to buy standard mags, holding on to bump stocks, continuing to buy FRT's, etc....ALL flying in the face of tyrannical rule? Are there pockets of fudd's still getting hung up on chastising those that go against the government's wishes? Sure. But by in large we as gun owning freedom lovers have thumbed our noses at the lunacy and are more comfortable talking/joking about doing what we want. So yes, the future will be interesting, but on the ignoring as they go.... we're already there. Now it's on the tyrants to force the issue and an individual/collective "response" from the citizenry. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Those legal precedents, and many prior, could all be lumped into 'ignoring the law'. If they can make it up as they go, then many will ignore it as they go. Food for thought. That's kinda how it's been though. Look back at the 94 ban and even the 922r.... gun owners were blood thirsty to shut each other down in the name of following the law. I got a TON of pushback that way when I first got into guns during that time back in the late 90's early 2000's and that was partially due to my own ignorance and just trying to educate myself. Fast forward....how many people are driving to other states to buy standard mags, holding on to bump stocks, continuing to buy FRT's, etc....ALL flying in the face of tyrannical rule? Are there pockets of fudd's still getting hung up on chastising those that go against the government's wishes? Sure. But by in large we as gun owning freedom lovers have thumbed our noses at the lunacy and are more comfortable talking/joking about doing what we want. So yes, the future will be interesting, but on the ignoring as they go.... we're already there. Now it's on the tyrants to force the issue and an individual/collective "response" from the citizenry. I've been noticing it across the board with everything, not just 2A stuff. I think people, regardless of politics, are fed up with the governments shenanigans. |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 11:38:21 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've been noticing it across the board with everything, not just 2A stuff. I think people, regardless of politics, are fed up with the governments shenanigans. Not that I'm thrilled for it to happen, but I do feel we're at a tipping point where the gov is going to be forced to go door to door and get in people's faces on a massive scale to enforce their bullshit. That's when we'll see 1) Which states are only too happy to assist with LE support and which tell the feds to get fucked OR arrest the feds (that would be absolutely hilarious!!!) and 2) Do people submit (as many here believe they will) or fight back and....dare I say it....unify to help each other (as some say they will) and put the gov. in their place? |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 11:58:43 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Those legal precedents, and many prior, could all be lumped into 'ignoring the law'. If they can make it up as they go, then many will ignore it as they go. Food for thought. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Between this, the receiver proposal and the brace proposal, there are a whole lot of legal precedents hanging in the wind this fall. Those legal precedents, and many prior, could all be lumped into 'ignoring the law'. If they can make it up as they go, then many will ignore it as they go. Food for thought. Sure, we can ignore all the laws we want. What we can't ignore, is the consequences of getting caught ignoring those law. |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 12:00:14 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not that I'm thrilled for it to happen, but I do feel we're at a tipping point where the gov is going to be forced to go door to door and get in people's faces on a massive scale to enforce their bullshit. That's when we'll see 1) Which states are only too happy to assist with LE support and which tell the feds to get fucked OR arrest the feds (that would be absolutely hilarious!!!) and 2) Do people submit (as many here believe they will) or fight back and....dare I say it....unify to help each other (as some say they will) and put the gov. in their place? Good questions. |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 12:10:48 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not that I'm thrilled for it to happen, but I do feel we're at a tipping point where the gov is going to be forced to go door to door and get in people's faces on a massive scale to enforce their bullshit. That's when we'll see 1) Which states are only too happy to assist with LE support and which tell the feds to get fucked OR arrest the feds (that would be absolutely hilarious!!!) and 2) Do people submit (as many here believe they will) or fight back and....dare I say it....unify to help each other (as some say they will) and put the gov. in their place? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I've been noticing it across the board with everything, not just 2A stuff. I think people, regardless of politics, are fed up with the governments shenanigans. Not that I'm thrilled for it to happen, but I do feel we're at a tipping point where the gov is going to be forced to go door to door and get in people's faces on a massive scale to enforce their bullshit. That's when we'll see 1) Which states are only too happy to assist with LE support and which tell the feds to get fucked OR arrest the feds (that would be absolutely hilarious!!!) and 2) Do people submit (as many here believe they will) or fight back and....dare I say it....unify to help each other (as some say they will) and put the gov. in their place? If history is any guide, submission wins. |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 12:13:19 PM EDT
[#18]
Sure would be nice if all their transaction data went to the same place as Hillary's emails...
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Posted: 8/17/2021 12:19:29 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure would be nice if all their transaction data went to the same place as Hillary's emails... Wish in one hand, hope in one hand, and shit in the other hand and see which one fills up faster. |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 12:22:49 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure, we can ignore all the laws we want. What we can't ignore, is the consequences of getting caught ignoring those law. Something about it's better to live as a free man... I forget how it goes... |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 12:28:23 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What makes this unique is that they didn't submit this for approval in the first place. Why? The lawyer who is part of their ownership is a known 2A lawyer from the Orlando area. He was a firearms trust attorney and gun rights attorney for as long as I can remember. He is not stupid and had to know what was coming. Also there is a reason this trigger wasn't designed with a single fire selector (wink wink). So what they have up their sleeves and how they believe they can win is going to be interesting. I wonder if this was done to avoid specious arguments around the definition of an "Assault Weapon" so that their case could be very narrowly defined and avoid a sideshow that would waste resources It's not select fire. Literally. It's safe or semi. |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 12:31:32 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure, we can ignore all the laws we want. What we can't ignore, is the consequences of getting caught ignoring those law. There are serious consequences for the ones enforcing unconstitutional laws on those who having nothing left to lose too remember Waco. |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 12:32:29 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wish in one hand, hope in one hand, and shit in the other hand and see which one fills up faster. |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 12:36:56 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wait, how many hands do you have? |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 12:40:38 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are serious consequences for the ones enforcing unconstitutional laws on those who having nothing left to lose too remember Waco. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Sure, we can ignore all the laws we want. What we can't ignore, is the consequences of getting caught ignoring those law. There are serious consequences for the ones enforcing unconstitutional laws on those who having nothing left to lose too remember Waco. Some of us remember Waco and the lessons we were taught. |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 12:50:54 PM EDT
[#26]
Here is part 4 of the administrative record including the report of technical examination and a letter in 2018 to a different requestor about how a similar trigger is a MG.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/looi7kd5yfwvnbr/ATF%20Part%204%20Admin%20record.pdf?dl=0 |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 12:53:43 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Something about it's better to live as a free man... I forget how it goes... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Sure, we can ignore all the laws we want. What we can't ignore, is the consequences of getting caught ignoring those law. I forget how it goes... This one: I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. Robert A. Heinlein |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 12:59:51 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here is part 4 of the administrative record including the report of technical examination and a letter in 2018 to a different requestor about how a similar trigger is a MG. https://www.dropbox.com/s/looi7kd5yfwvnbr/ATF%20Part%204%20Admin%20record.pdf?dl=0 LMAO, ATF blatantly redefining "single function of the trigger" to "single pull of the trigger" in order to classify it as an MG. I hope they get their pp slapped real hard for literally rewriting the law. |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 1:12:40 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If history is any guide, submission wins. Depends where you look. Resistance is a spectrum ranging from ignoring to full on revolt. Plenty of examples out there. |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 1:24:08 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here is part 4 of the administrative record including the report of technical examination and a letter in 2018 to a different requestor about how a similar trigger is a MG. https://www.dropbox.com/s/looi7kd5yfwvnbr/ATF%20Part%204%20Admin%20record.pdf?dl=0 This part demonstrates the courts siding with the ATF on their interpretation of the definition of a machine gun. Where this could get interesting is if this goes to SCOTUS and the judges there use this to weaken Chevron Deference doctine. We need SCOTUS to say, "The laws that are written by the Legislative Branch are what they are and we are not going to allow government agencies of the Executive Branch to interpret laws, especially criminal laws, however they want." With the current makeup of SCOTUS we have a good chance of making this happen and this case could have far reaching consequences. I do think that our friends at Rare Breed have done their research and know this. I also wouldn't be surprised if they get legal/financial support from people/organizations outside of the gun world who want to see this change.  |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 1:27:07 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LMAO, ATF blatantly redefining "single function of the trigger" to "single pull of the trigger" in order to classify it as an MG. I hope they get their pp slapped real hard for literally rewriting the law. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Here is part 4 of the administrative record including the report of technical examination and a letter in 2018 to a different requestor about how a similar trigger is a MG. https://www.dropbox.com/s/looi7kd5yfwvnbr/ATF%20Part%204%20Admin%20record.pdf?dl=0 LMAO, ATF blatantly redefining "single function of the trigger" to "single pull of the trigger" in order to classify it as an MG. I hope they get their pp slapped real hard for literally rewriting the law. Ok, so redesign it so you have to push on the trigger. Problem solved. Unlike a machine gun, there is no normally moving part in the mechanism of the RBFRT that does not move to cause the gun to fire-eject-reload-and fire again. It is the same as a semiauto. Maybe they can set it up with some measuring instruments to check trigger movement between shots. Bottom line - the aft knows these devices don't technically fit the 'single function' test so they just ignore the law as written and/or just make stuff up as they go. Interesting precedent to set. 
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Posted: 8/17/2021 1:43:29 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok, so redesign it so you have to push on the trigger. Problem solved. Unlike a machine gun, there is no normally moving part in the mechanism of the RBFRT that does not move to cause the gun to fire-eject-reload-and fire again. It is the same as a semiauto. Maybe they can set it up with some measuring instruments to check trigger movement between shots. Bottom line - the aft knows these devices don't technically fit the 'single function' test so they just ignore the law as written and/or just make stuff up as they go. Interesting precedent to set. Don't you already have to? It just forces the reset, you have to pull the trigger to make it fire. |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 1:46:13 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wait, how many hands do you have? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Wish in one hand, hope in one hand, and shit in the other hand and see which one fills up faster. On the Gripping Hand... |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 1:49:36 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't you already have to? It just forces the reset, you have to pull the trigger to make it fire. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Ok, so redesign it so you have to push on the trigger. Problem solved. Unlike a machine gun, there is no normally moving part in the mechanism of the RBFRT that does not move to cause the gun to fire-eject-reload-and fire again. It is the same as a semiauto. Maybe they can set it up with some measuring instruments to check trigger movement between shots. Bottom line - the aft knows these devices don't technically fit the 'single function' test so they just ignore the law as written and/or just make stuff up as they go. Interesting precedent to set. Don't you already have to? It just forces the reset, you have to pull the trigger to make it fire. To clarify, redesign it so you have to push on the back of the trigger with the flat part of your fingernail, the reset pushes the trigger back into your fingernail moving the entire finger, and then push the back of the trigger with the flat of your fingernail to repeat the sequence. |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 1:52:35 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't you already have to? It just forces the reset, you have to pull the trigger to make it fire. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Ok, so redesign it so you have to push on the trigger. Problem solved. Unlike a machine gun, there is no normally moving part in the mechanism of the RBFRT that does not move to cause the gun to fire-eject-reload-and fire again. It is the same as a semiauto. Maybe they can set it up with some measuring instruments to check trigger movement between shots. Bottom line - the aft knows these devices don't technically fit the 'single function' test so they just ignore the law as written and/or just make stuff up as they go. Interesting precedent to set. Don't you already have to? It just forces the reset, you have to pull the trigger to make it fire. Yes, it meets the definition of semi auto to the letter. If you pull the trigger hard enough to prevent the forced reset, it only fires 1 round. You have to pull the trigger for every bullet fired. Someone did a video showing the trigger reset and pull in slow motion. Rare breed also has an explanation on their website. |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 2:01:19 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To clarify, redesign it so you have to push on the back of the trigger with the flat part of your fingernail, the reset pushes the trigger back into your fingernail moving the entire finger, and then push the back of the trigger with the flat of your fingernail to repeat the sequence. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Ok, so redesign it so you have to push on the trigger. Problem solved. Unlike a machine gun, there is no normally moving part in the mechanism of the RBFRT that does not move to cause the gun to fire-eject-reload-and fire again. It is the same as a semiauto. Maybe they can set it up with some measuring instruments to check trigger movement between shots. Bottom line - the aft knows these devices don't technically fit the 'single function' test so they just ignore the law as written and/or just make stuff up as they go. Interesting precedent to set. Don't you already have to? It just forces the reset, you have to pull the trigger to make it fire. To clarify, redesign it so you have to push on the back of the trigger with the flat part of your fingernail, the reset pushes the trigger back into your fingernail moving the entire finger, and then push the back of the trigger with the flat of your fingernail to repeat the sequence. Congrats, you’ve designed a worse version of a regular trigger with no reset. |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 2:02:38 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, it meets the definition of semi auto to the letter. If you pull the trigger hard enough to prevent the forced reset, it only fires 1 round. You have to pull the trigger for every bullet fired. Someone did a video showing the trigger reset and pull in slow motion. Rare breed also has an explanation on their website. Slow motion operation right around the 2 minute mark.  FRT-15 Vs An Actual Machine Gun |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 2:04:10 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, it meets the definition of semi auto to the letter. If you pull the trigger hard enough to prevent the forced reset, it only fires 1 round. You have to pull the trigger for every bullet fired. Someone did a video showing the trigger reset and pull in slow motion. Rare breed also has an explanation on their website. Similarly, if you didn't willfully push the upper of a bump stock rifle forward, the trigger would not reset and only one shot would be fired. I'd like to see the ATF take their lies about these devices to the current supreme court and get them slapped down. |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 2:15:11 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To clarify, redesign it so you have to push on the back of the trigger with the flat part of your fingernail, the reset pushes the trigger back into your fingernail moving the entire finger, and then push the back of the trigger with the flat of your fingernail to repeat the sequence.  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 2:18:45 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Similarly, if you didn't willfully push the upper of a bump stock rifle forward, the trigger would not reset and only one shot would be fired. I'd like to see the ATF take their lies about these devices to the current supreme court and get them slapped down. The same squishy republicans that voted for the "infrastructure bill" will gladly go all in on legislation aimed at outlawing bump stocks and other fun enhancers. |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 2:31:21 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The same squishy republicans that voted for the "infrastructure bill" will gladly go all in on legislation aimed at outlawing bump stocks and other fun enhancers. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Similarly, if you didn't willfully push the upper of a bump stock rifle forward, the trigger would not reset and only one shot would be fired. I'd like to see the ATF take their lies about these devices to the current supreme court and get them slapped down. The same squishy republicans that voted for the "infrastructure bill" will gladly go all in on legislation aimed at outlawing bump stocks and other fun enhancers. You’re talking about a semiautomatic weapons ban at that point. You can do a crappier version of what the FRT-15 is doing with a strong rubber band wrapped behind the trigger and around the forward part of the magazine well. |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 2:40:39 PM EDT
[#42]
Why do are people saying redefined?
and “single function of the trigger” means a single pull of the trigger and analogous motions. |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 2:46:52 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here is part 4 of the administrative record including the report of technical examination and a letter in 2018 to a different requestor about how a similar trigger is a MG. https://www.dropbox.com/s/looi7kd5yfwvnbr/ATF%20Part%204%20Admin%20record.pdf?dl=0 Kevin you based madlad  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 2:48:41 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why do are people saying redefined? . That is out of the section of the CFR they mentioned. Quote HistoryQuoted: Why do are people saying redefined? and “single function of the trigger” means a single pull of the trigger and analogous motions. Because "function" and "pull" are different words, and only one of them is in the law that Congress passed. "Function" refers to something the trigger does, and "pull" is something the shooter does. Under this definition by the ATF, bumpfiring a gun using my belt loop constitutes manufacturing a machine gun. It's absurd and ridiculous. ATF doesn't get to change what words mean in the law because they don't like it when people innovate around their restrictions. |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 2:48:59 PM EDT
[#45]
aft really just wants to rule guns are machineguns if ammunition is expelled too quickly. They also want to be able to decide what too quickly is depending on whether or not they have changed their tampons
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Posted: 8/17/2021 2:53:50 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: aft really just wants to rule guns are machineguns if ammunition is expelled too quickly. They also want to be able to decide what too quickly is depending on whether or not they have changed their tampons This really is the crux of the matter. If your split time goes too low, then you’ve made a machine gun. |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 3:00:26 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because "function" and "pull" are different words, and only one of them is in the law that Congress passed. "Function" refers to something the trigger does, and "pull" is something the shooter does. Under this definition by the ATF, bumpfiring a gun using my belt loop constitutes manufacturing a machine gun. It's absurd and ridiculous. ATF doesn't get to change what words mean in the law because they don't like it when people innovate around their restrictions. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why do are people saying redefined? and “single function of the trigger” means a single pull of the trigger and analogous motions. Because "function" and "pull" are different words, and only one of them is in the law that Congress passed. "Function" refers to something the trigger does, and "pull" is something the shooter does. Under this definition by the ATF, bumpfiring a gun using my belt loop constitutes manufacturing a machine gun. It's absurd and ridiculous. ATF doesn't get to change what words mean in the law because they don't like it when people innovate around their restrictions. while this is true, I think when they start showing clips of machineguns, and bump firing, FRT-15's, binaries, hair triggers, jerry miculek - fear is going to push them towards all semi autos should be registered before saying "ok boys, have fun" I hope I'm wrong. |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 3:01:58 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This really is the crux of the matter. If your split time goes too low, then you've made a machine gun. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: aft really just wants to rule guns are machineguns if ammunition is expelled too quickly. They also want to be able to decide what too quickly is depending on whether or not they have changed their tampons This really is the crux of the matter. If your split time goes too low, then you've made a machine gun. 
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Posted: 8/17/2021 3:09:01 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: while this is true, I think when they start showing clips of machineguns, and bump firing, FRT-15's, binaries, hair triggers, jerry miculek - fear is going to push them towards all semi autos should be registered before saying "ok boys, have fun" I hope I'm wrong. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why do are people saying redefined? and “single function of the trigger” means a single pull of the trigger and analogous motions. Because "function" and "pull" are different words, and only one of them is in the law that Congress passed. "Function" refers to something the trigger does, and "pull" is something the shooter does. Under this definition by the ATF, bumpfiring a gun using my belt loop constitutes manufacturing a machine gun. It's absurd and ridiculous. ATF doesn't get to change what words mean in the law because they don't like it when people innovate around their restrictions. while this is true, I think when they start showing clips of machineguns, and bump firing, FRT-15's, binaries, hair triggers, jerry miculek - fear is going to push them towards all semi autos should be registered before saying "ok boys, have fun" I hope I'm wrong. Good thing my rights are still my rights, even when they are scary. Look, all I'm saying is that we need to be pushing back, hard, against the ATF, NFA, and Hughes Amendment because they will never stop. The FRT-15 shouldn't exist because PSA should be including auto sears in every rifle they sell, if we lived in a country where our rights were respected. You are 100% correct that they will very soon be trying to ban all semi-autos as machine guns because they are all "readily convertible" to the average anti-gunner. The only answer is to push back and try and get MGs back through changes to the law / court determinations, or mass noncompliance with MGs if that doesn't work. Those are literally the only two ways forward that don't end with semi-autos getting added to the NFA. |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 3:14:45 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because "function" and "pull" are different words, and only one of them is in the law that Congress passed. "Function" refers to something the trigger does, and "pull" is something the shooter does. Under this definition by the ATF, bumpfiring a gun using my belt loop constitutes manufacturing a machine gun. It's absurd and ridiculous. ATF doesn't get to change what words mean in the law because they don't like it when people innovate around their restrictions. So is the argument the CFR is incorrect, their interpretation of pull is incorrect using the CFR, they don't have the authority under law to enforce it, or something else? Really trying to understand how they are going to get any traction with this or any court to disagree with what the ATF is saying. |
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