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Posted: 1/22/2019 1:20:53 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IBT "Roberts will fuck us" underscores/concern trolls. Kharn How does the 86 FOPA (Firearms Owners Protection Act) not negate this BS NYC law right out of the box. Part of the law was to protect us when moving our firearms from place to place as long as where they started and ended was legal. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 1:22:27 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not according to my old NY county. @Mech2007 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So...what does this mean? If SCOTUS says this practice is bullshit, NYC will HAVE to once again start issuing TARGET/HUNTING pistol permits, which again, are legally FULL CARRY permits. @Mech2007 Should be interesting. The way the law is currently worded, I can carry within my house, but not outside on my own property. Technically speaking, it's an Administrative Violation to carry when I mow the lawn. If I did, and was caught, I could lose my license but not be arrested for it. Always have a range bag in your car. 
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Posted: 1/22/2019 1:22:39 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Probably more important that Heller, as Heller has been basically ignored. This would give Heller some teeth, strict scrutiny is the highest standard of review. A SC ruling applying strict Constitutional scrutiny to anything related to the 2A could open the door to national reciprocity, Constitutional carry, rolling back the NFA, etc... |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 1:28:02 PM EDT
[#4]
In before the NRA claims a victory.
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Posted: 1/22/2019 1:30:13 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
NYC says you can't transport your pistol except from your domicile to their seven approved ranges, not even to other states, your upstate home, or to go hunting. The US Supreme Court has agreed to hear the case and weigh in if that is an acceptable restriction within the 2A, the commerce clause of the constitution, and the right to travel. This is the first major 2A case to reach the merits stage since McDonald in 2010, Caetano had a summary disposition, so if they side with NYSRPA instead of NYC, it would instantly establish precedent across the country for CA, MD, NJ, etc to abide by. Kharn Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Cliff notes? This is the first major 2A case to reach the merits stage since McDonald in 2010, Caetano had a summary disposition, so if they side with NYSRPA instead of NYC, it would instantly establish precedent across the country for CA, MD, NJ, etc to abide by. Kharn |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 1:31:52 PM EDT
[#6]
I think the issue at question is narrow enough that even milquetoast Roberts will agree the law is an unreasonable infringement. Yes, we need another 1 or 2 Alito/Thomases on board before we'd want them to hear a concealed carry or AWB case, but something like this is insane enough that Fudds would find it objectionable.
ETA: The strict scrutiny angle is interesting as well. If we could get that and a non-2A case that ends Chevron deference, which Kavanaugh and Gorsuch may help with, that could really open the floodgates. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 1:33:42 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hey everyone...I know NYC's bullshit gun laws almost perfectly. Unfortunately. This is MUCH bigger than most people think...here is why... NYC to target shoot, no NYPD officer would arrest you. But a NYS trooper that is visiting NYC could still arrest you in NYC believe it or not! So...what does this mean? If SCOTUS says this practice is bullshit, NYC will HAVE to once again start issuing TARGET/HUNTING pistol permits, which again, are legally FULL CARRY permits. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 1:36:47 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Summoning the under_world. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
IBT "Roberts will fuck us" underscores/concern trolls. Kharn |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 1:42:33 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IBT "Roberts will fuck us" underscores/concern trolls. Kharn |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 1:45:46 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wow! I didn't expect that at all. I figured for sure that SCOTUS would let NYC just keep jerking gun owners around. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 1:45:49 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
SCOTUS is going to decide whether or not it's constitutional for NYC to have extremely strict limits on where you can transport a legally owned handgun Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Somebody translate for us simpletons....... |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 1:46:02 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And NYSRPA has Paul Clement, the former Solicitor General of the United States, arguing the case. Clement argued for the US in support of Heller, and for the NRA in support of McDonald, along with 60+ other appearances before the court, the most in history. Kharn |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 1:51:44 PM EDT
[#13]
I see some people have not yet realized there is no rule of law anymore in the FUSA.
Supreme court? Constitution? They will simply ignore as they are doing NOW. Who's gonna stop them? |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 1:57:21 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I had no idea states limited such things... Did you know the Soviets only had 3 cheeses to choose from? |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 2:01:50 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because you are free for now. Did you know the Soviets only had 3 cheeses to choose from?
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Posted: 1/22/2019 2:07:42 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In before the NRA claims a victory. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 2:07:49 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is good news. It’s going to be tough waiting until October. Not sure how a win helps those in other states though. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 2:11:32 PM EDT
[#18]
The Supreme Court’s calendar for April was already full before last week’s conference, so the new grant likely won’t be argued until the fall. The justices’ eventual ruling in the case could stick to the relatively narrow question of whether the city’s law is constitutional, or it might shed light on a broader and more consequential question: whether the right to have a gun extends outside the home. Either way, the court’s opinion in the case probably won’t come until the spring of 2020. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 2:11:37 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I had no idea states limited such things... Even more comical would be if some Justice were to pass away soon and the court swings to more conservative...perhaps throw in a retirement as well for good measure. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 2:11:48 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The way the law is currently worded, I can carry within my house, but not outside on my own property. Technically speaking, it's an Administrative Violation to carry when I mow the lawn. If I did, and was caught, I could lose my license but not be arrested for it. Always have a range bag in your car. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 2:12:04 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you had a target/hunting permit on LI and got caught carrying they would take away your permit. I remember when Edelman's had a shooting range that was open 24/7. It was said if you got caught carrying you would just say I was on my way to the range. Not sure how they went over for anyone who was caught. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 2:14:25 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That’s a likely outcome. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This is good news. It’s going to be tough waiting until October. Not sure how a win helps those in other states though. A rather well-informed lawyer on TTAG (who correctly called the cert grant for this particular case, last year) theorizes that the decision will be a narrow one, but will apply blanket "strict scrutiny" to 2A cases. Many lower court decisions on 2A restrictions won't stand up to the higher level of scrutiny, and will have to be reversed. 
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Posted: 1/22/2019 2:14:26 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I remember their ads in Newsday before that rag declared all firearm related ads persona non grata. I found it interesting how it was open 24x7 and all members had their own key to the facility. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If you had a target/hunting permit on LI and got caught carrying they would take away your permit. I remember when Edelman's had a shooting range that was open 24/7. It was said if you got caught carrying you would just say I was on my way to the range. Not sure how they went over for anyone who was caught. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 2:18:29 PM EDT
[#24]
If strict scrutiny had been applied from the start almost every gun law would have been kicked to the curb. Instead we are fighting laws made 70-80 years ago. Of course there is that pesky shall not be infringed thingy that needs to be answered. Court took it upon itself to come up with the "not absolute" bullshit to even give these cases any legitimacy.
In short rights are not absolute but no strict scrutiny is ever needed. Stacked deck. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 2:19:33 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who invented this stupid meme about underscores? |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 2:23:25 PM EDT
[#26]
"But the City put forth no empirical evidence that transporting an unloaded handgun, locked in a container separate from its ammunition, poses a meaningful risk to public safety."
Why is this assumed to be the only way to transport a gun? |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 2:26:39 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"But the City put forth no empirical evidence that transporting an unloaded handgun, locked in a container separate from its ammunition, poses a meaningful risk to public safety." Why is this assumed to be the only way to transport a gun? |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 2:27:15 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Think it got going when T_S and B_S were posting on top of each other in a Trump related thread. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Who invented this stupid meme about underscores? |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 2:29:42 PM EDT
[#29]
Well I guess we will get to see what kind of Justices' Trump has gotten us + see if Roberts is the turn coat piece of shit many fear he is.
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Posted: 1/22/2019 2:35:14 PM EDT
[#30]
I suspect they know RBG is near the end & will get a pro gun replacement soon. Or perhaps they discussed with Roberts beforehand ?
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Posted: 1/22/2019 2:35:22 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A guy at the Nassau permit office told my buddy not to think the "I belong to a 24 hr. range" story will work. Any restrictions on a NYS carry permit are purely administrative. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 2:38:28 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who invented this stupid meme about underscores? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
IBT "Roberts will fuck us" underscores/concern trolls. Kharn |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 2:40:14 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Carry licenses currently issued in NYS feature the following disclaimer on the back. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/61196/20190122_120627_jpg-817519.JPG So you can legally carry all over the state until you get to NYC, where your statewide approved legal licensed conduct will get you cuffed and stuffed. Here is the back of mine. As you can see, every country has different "rules". Like davem4p99 said however, in the law, you either have a carry permit or you don't. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 2:40:55 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sure, the future of your carry permit may be in doubt depending on the mood of your authority person, but they still can't arrest you for carrying if you have the permit. Any restrictions on a NYS carry permit are purely administrative. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
A guy at the Nassau permit office told my buddy not to think the "I belong to a 24 hr. range" story will work. Any restrictions on a NYS carry permit are purely administrative. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 2:50:14 PM EDT
[#35]
Hopefully, we get some freedom back.
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Posted: 1/22/2019 2:51:10 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
New York State Rifle & Pistol Association is the official NRA-affiliated State Association. I'm sure someone will come along and complain "where is the NRA?" though. The NRA operates behind the curtain so that local state residents can be front and center. It reduces the complaints that they have no standing or that it is "entities outside the state trying to control what happens in another state". |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 2:52:02 PM EDT
[#37]
It is stupid that NYC bans NYC pistol permit holders from legally transporting their registered pistols outside of NYC ... but I really wish the case SCOTUS took up was on AWB/capacity restrictions.
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Posted: 1/22/2019 2:53:56 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thats funny, I didnt see any NRA reps at Lobby Day in Richmond yesterday, just VCDL members. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
New York State Rifle & Pistol Association is the official NRA-affiliated State Association. I'm sure someone will come along and complain "where is the NRA?" though. The NRA operates behind the curtain so that local state residents can be front and center. It reduces the complaints that they have no standing or that it is "entities outside the state trying to control what happens in another state". Kharn |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 2:56:08 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is stupid that NYC bans NYC pistol permit holders from legally transporting their registered pistols outside of NYC ... but I really wish the case SCOTUS took up was on AWB/capacity restrictions. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 2:56:10 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any restrictions on a NYS carry permit are purely administrative. This (what I quoted) is not entirely accurate. If the licensing officer wants to be a douche and yank your carry permit, you are no longer able to possess handguns in NY. I know a guy who lost his NYC permit due to a nothing burger in Westchester Co where he was carrying in WC outside of his restrictions. WC knew he had a NYC permit and reported him. When NYC yanked his NYC permit, WC yanked his WC permit. Article 78 filing went nowhere. Explain how this is "administrative"? |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 2:59:17 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The city caved on the hunting portion. But it has to be hunting season and you must have a valid hunting license. Hopefully this will be the first crack in the wall. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
NYC says you can't transport your pistol except from your domicile to their seven approved ranges, not even to other states, your upstate home, or to go hunting. The US Supreme Court has agreed to hear the case and weigh in if that is an acceptable restriction within the 2A, the commerce clause of the constitution, and the right to travel. This is the first major 2A case to reach the merits stage since McDonald in 2010, Caetano had a summary disposition, so if they side with NYSRPA instead of NYC, it would instantly establish precedent across the country for CA, MD, NJ, etc to abide by. Kharn Hopefully this will be the first crack in the wall. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 2:59:26 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why is there a government meeting in public that thinks that's reasonable?  Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:NYC says you can't transport your pistol except from your domicile to their seven approved ranges, not even to other states, your upstate home, or to go hunting. Remember way back when the Senate had voted on Obamacare but the House hadn't? Ben "Cornhusker Kickback" Nelson went home and went to a local pizza joint with his wife. He was booed out of the building. I'm convinced if the boo-ers had strung him up in the street the House would never have voted for Obamacare. It's real easy to say "the worst that happens is you don't get reelected but we have a nice lobbyist job as a consolation" but is a whole other thing when politicians put their literal skin on the line. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 3:00:30 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep, and RBG will surface to join him. How does the 86 FOPA (Firearms Owners Protection Act) not negate this BS NYC law right out of the box. Part of the law was to protect us when moving our firearms from place to place as long as where they started and where ended was legal. Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep, and RBG will surface to join him. How does the 86 FOPA (Firearms Owners Protection Act) not negate this BS NYC law right out of the box. Part of the law was to protect us when moving our firearms from place to place as long as where they started and where ended was legal. One of the law's provisions (codified in section 926A of title 18 of the U.S. Code) was that persons traveling from one place to another have a defense for any state firearms offense in a state that has strict gun control laws if the traveler is just passing through (short stops for food and gasoline), provided that the individual is not otherwise prohibited from possession of a firearm, the firearms and ammunition are not readily accessible, that the firearms are unloaded and, in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment, the firearms are located in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.[12][13] |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 3:03:04 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fuck that bull shit bull shit. If the Framers had meant the federal government can regulate anything anywhere they would have come out and said it ... not used the commerce clause. The federal government slipped a big restriction on their power there. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:the Commerce Clause If the Framers had meant the federal government can regulate anything anywhere they would have come out and said it ... not used the commerce clause. The federal government slipped a big restriction on their power there. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 3:08:14 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And NYSRPA has Paul Clement, the former Solicitor General of the United States, arguing the case. Clement argued for the US in support of Heller, and for the NRA in support of McDonald, along with 60+ other appearances before the court, the most in history. Kharn Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
New York State Rifle & Pistol Association is the official NRA-affiliated State Association. I'm sure someone will come along and complain "where is the NRA?" though. The NRA operates behind the curtain so that local state residents can be front and center. It reduces the complaints that they have no standing or that it is "entities outside the state trying to control what happens in another state". Kharn On McDonald they held that the Second Amendment was incorporated under the Fourteenth Amendment thus protecting those rights from infringement by state and local governments. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 3:10:00 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
inb4 the NRA tries to sabotage the case so that we won't lose it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
In before the NRA claims a victory. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 3:12:37 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thats funny, I didnt see any NRA reps at Lobby Day in Richmond yesterday, just VCDL members. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
New York State Rifle & Pistol Association is the official NRA-affiliated State Association. I'm sure someone will come along and complain "where is the NRA?" though. The NRA operates behind the curtain so that local state residents can be front and center. It reduces the complaints that they have no standing or that it is "entities outside the state trying to control what happens in another state". |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 3:14:30 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"But the City put forth no empirical evidence that transporting an unloaded handgun, locked in a container separate from its ammunition, poses a meaningful risk to public safety." Why is this assumed to be the only way to transport a gun? |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 3:32:12 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would NYC actually abide a Supreme Court decision? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would NYC actually abide a Supreme Court decision? Quoted:
I'll be Negative Nancy: Heller and McDonald didn't do anything meaningful for NYC subjects,this is very unlikely to do much either. However,it's a low hanging gun case that won't matter much either way but at least allows them to address firearms so they can move on to other things for the next X years rather than do something that would make drastic changes for everyone. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 3:37:21 PM EDT
[#50]
NYC is indeed doing the "right" thing by not allowing people to leave NYC with a PREMISE permit...according to NYS law.
Since NYC doesn't want to issue NYS Carry permits, they issue these PREMISE only permits...And a NYC premise permit holder can definitely be arrested outside NYC if they possess a handgun...since a PREMISE permit does NOT allow transport at all. Ever. Even the NYC "Hunting Authorization" opens you up to arrest upstate since it's illegal to possess/carry a handgun outside the address, with a premise permit. Hell even a NYS trooper could arrest a NYC premise holder for going to a NYC range with only a premise permit (which the NYPD allows). When they lose, NYC will HAVE to start issuing CARRY/Target/Hunting licenses again...which according to NYS law, allow full carry. The NYPD is going to cry hard. |
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