If you had the option to just walk away, then you weren't bullied.  

Maybe you were intimidated, extorted...  I'm not saying people weren't mean to you or something.  Everyone's been picked on, had a few scrapes, been called some names...  and surely you did it to other kids, too.  It's unfortunate, but it's also normal.


But if you were allowed to get out of it by way of ignoring it?  That's not bullying.

Imagine being in active fear of your life, every minute you're not safely at home, and this lasts for years, until you move or get a new school.  
Imagine going to sleep every night knowing that waking up the next day means you will be physically and mentally abused.
Imagine being in "survival mode" all the time.  "Condition orange" for you fans of Jeff Cooper.  All the time.  You're on a combat patrol every day at school...  except you're all alone and nobody will ever help you.  Your teachers don't care, and couldn't do anything even if they did, and your classmates know better than to be your friend or they'll get bullied, too.
And did I mention that this goes on for years and years?

It breaks people.  The constant stress grinds the sanity, joy, and humanity right out of a child.



I'm not trying to one-up anyone, or claim that I had it that bad.  I survived just fine, so obviously my experience wasn't unbearable.
I'm just saying, I've seen the abyss of humanity, and I know the evil that children are capable of.  They likely don't realize what they're doing, sure, but that hardly matters to the victim.

You're correct that the media gets it wrong.  They don't understand what bullying even is.  They think it's kids being mean to each other.  But that's bullshit, because most people in entertainment and news were popular kids, and weren't bullied.  They just don't know.

Even by the numbers, most people don't know.  A given school only ever has a handful of bullies and a handful of victims.  The odds are low, and they're even lower if you don't stand out physically or intellectually or personality-wise.  If you're just an average kid and you keep your head down, your odds of ever being truly bullied is super low.

But for some people, there is no option to just ignore it and let it go away.
For some people, it is a persistent extreme stress that you feel in genuine fear of your life.
And some of those people crack.  They think death is a better option than living under that kind of crushing abuse.

And I'm not saying it would save all of them.  But we could save most of them if we actually wanted to stop bullying.

I don’t.  Do I deserve to have my taxes increased because of some girl's weakness?

It could also mean that there is a very different dynamic at play these days, one that those of us who didn't grow up in a world with the Internet and social media may not understand very well.

You can't stop bullying. Arresting or suspending the bully won't stop it. In some cases make it worse.

Trying to investigate bullying in schools is a nightmare. The accused have rights too. One word against another's word. I guess start giving bullied kids gopros might help. Still won't stop bullying.

Most cases are girls and facebook bullshit. Things a school should not be concerned with.

that's a pretty fucking ignorant statement.
social media spills out into real life conversations and shaming for children in school.

if you're over the age of 18 and you're claiming cyber bullying.. I agree with your comment completely..
if the victim is in grade school, it's very real and in most cases they cannot escape the shaming..

The kids out here brawl on the regular. It can be a bit obnoxious but no recent suicides that I can recall.

Absolutely not. The school completely failed to adhere to it's own policies and then lied about it. Fuck them.

Pathetic.

Absolutely right.

This is also true.

I miss the days when parents took responsibility for their actions/lack of action.

Even here, in the bastion of conservationism, we have people wishing to push their responsibilities onto someone else.

It's sad.

Did you even read the article?

Yes.

It's not the schools job to protect a child. They are there to provide education.

There is only one responsible party for the overall well-being of a child. Their parents.

In this case, they completely failed, and get to own 50% of the death of their child.

Mic drop.

To provide an education, a school also have to provide a reasonable environment that is conducive to learning. Yes, a school can't possibly be responsible to protect children from any form of bullying, but what occurred here appears to have risen above typical bullying. And the parents were involved in trying to mitigate it. I don't see how you can say that they completely failed. And even if they were 50% responsible (which I do not agree with), then who is responsible for the other 50%? The school completely failed to follow it's own stated policies. Where is their accountability? Why are you giving them a free pass?

Also, I remember your sad thread about your daughters. Would you be so cavalier were it one of them in this circumstance?

So what did the parents do, exactly?

My daughters wouldn't be in this circumstance. I wouldn't allow it.

Then why are you excited about suing them?

If the law forces you to keep your kids in school, then the school should bear the responsibility of keeping them safe while they are there.

Yea... so the law doesn't force your kids into a specific school.

One simple piece of paper and that girl would be in a different school.

So you didn't read the article.



By your own admission you are limited to spending little if any time with them, you consented for them to move at least a long days' drive away, you expect that they are going to get crushed by other middle schoolers and there is nothing that you can do. How would you even know if the circumstance was developing? You expect others to have sympathy for your situation, yet want to act like an unsympathetic hardass towards this other family.

There is not a single aspect of this story to be excited about.

Because of people like you, I don't post personal info even in team anymore. I don't want your fucking sympathy, especially when you take shit from team and spew it in GD.

Dick move. I can't say more, fortunately for you, because we have a code of conduct.


I did read the article, and I can clearly read that the parents did fuck-all to resolve this issue. They sat on their ass until their kid killed herself.


I can't do shit about my kids who are being raised by other people. That's out of my control. If you can't see the difference, then you're beyond all hope.

Then again, I suspect that you can see the difference, but just want to throw my personal shit up in the air to piss me off. It worked.

I'm glad we aren't in close proximity.

When I was a kid, fighting a bully made you into a man. Today with all of this "mah feels" bull shit, it doesn't end well.

what's sad is that your access to a keyboard is so easy.

Feel free to articulate a response, if you're capable.

Unfortunately those kids grow up to be adults who still can't handle conflict.

Yep.

Also, it's up the parents to be involved enough with their kid's internet usage that they can identify and remediate online attacks.

No one is forcing these kids to use social media. Turn that shit the fuck off.

it would probably involve the use of words that i'd just have to explain to you..


apparently not, some of them commit suicide due to their inability to see past the bullying.

So, whose job is it to identify bullying, respond to it, and give their child the emotional ability to handle conflict?

Use small words, I'm a simple man.

So if you read the article and came to the conclusion that the parents didn't do anything, then where did all of the evidence about their communications with the school come from?



Point was that you of all people should be able to empathize with the plights of other families where the all of the circumstances are not known. But here you are judging them and deeming them complete failures. I don't think that's right.

I appreciate that it can definitely be a fine line to walk and stay balanced, but I think our schools can do better than the one in this instance did.

Figured as much.

By doing what, exactly?



If you think writing a few emails is good enough, then I don't know what to tell you.

The bullying thing is exacerbated by parents who won't provide any leadership and the way things can get spread.  It's relatively easy to anonymously engage in some pretty heinous character assassination these days.  Back in the day you had to go around telling the tale, and face the risk that someone was going to call you on your BS and kick your ass.  



Parents don't spend enough time parenting.  Instead they are too busy driving the kid from event to event and pushing them to "succeed".  I'm seeing quite a few parents push back from that kind of rigid scheduling and oddly enough those kids are the ones who act the most like human beings.  Childhood shouldn't be a competition 24/7.  Some times kids just need time to see their parents behaving as adults instead of camp counselors.  



And then you have the whole conflict avoidance thing that is prevalent in schools.  Zero tolerance of fighting means that a kid who knows how to push the limits but can refrain from physical contact can really punch someone's buttons with impunity.  We're teaching a whole generation of young assholes that there is no down side to being a gigantic asshole.  You should see the looks of shock and horror on parents faces when they enroll their kid in Judo and we openly discuss with the kids that they're learning first and foremost to fight.  Sure it's learning to fight so you don't ever have to but it's fighting none the less.  What did you think it was going to be, mom, a dance class with self esteem belts?  



Kids are also reluctant to step in and stand up for what is right any more.  That's because they're being taught that right and wrong are relative and they shouldn't judge.  In a world with no moral absolutes assholes get to reign supreme.  

This guy fucking gets it.

Yeah, their daughter was bullied for years, to the point of committing suicide (which is still a chickenshit way out), and all the father did was send a few weakly worded emails.

No visits with the school, no visits with the bully's parents, no teaching his daughter to fight back, and apparently not following through with Instagram on removing a defamatory face account.

Teenagers gonna teenage, the parents failed their daughter.

Amen dude.

There are a million things you can do, up to and including contacting the offender's parents, and pulling your kid out of school. Turn off social media access, monitor their texts and emails. None of this is hard to do.

Where were the parents during YEARS of abuse by other kids? Sending emails? Come on!

For starters, by adhering to their own policies and following up on the matter.



So now we've gone they completely failed and didn't do anything to, well, a few emails. I guess that is a little progress. And the emails were likely just the easily documented part of the communications. The proverbial tip of the ice berg. How many parents even have that to show for their involvement in their children's academic lives?

For someone who doesn't like even the appearance of being judged, you sure like handing out judgement.

Whenever this happens I always feel torn on where I stand.

I'm very much a "no bullshit no drama" type person but I'm also in my 30s.  I think most people miss the big picture here.  

1)  You can't handle bullies the same way anymore.  You'll get suspended/expelled from school, slapped with a civil suit and maybe even get charged by an overzealous DA.  If we handled things like our parents did we'd be up shit's creek.  Same general thing applies to work disagreements, bar fights, etc.  You can't just squash a beef and walk away.

2)  Try as we all might, we don't fully understand how "social media" plays into all this.  Sure we all use twitter and facebook as adults, but none of us are experiencing the technology as a middle/high school student.  Yes, social media maybe seem dumb to a lot of people, but it's another tool bullies can use that we or our parents never had to deal with.  

We can disagree on the end result, but let's not pretend like the environment is the same as it was 20/30/40 years ago.

This isn't' a competition for who is the shittiest parent. I certainly don't measure my involvement with my children based on how shitty other parents are.

I'll reiterate. Those parents completely failed.



Do you honestly, deep in your heart, think that would have made fuck-all of a difference? I hope the answer is no. Because it wouldn't have done shit.

My son was a 'victim' of bullying earlier this year. (I use victim loosely, he was provided an opportunity to learn how to be a man) He kicked the boys ass, and his friend's ass. He and I discuss bullying and self defense regularly. I also monitor his social media activity, emails and texts. I do the same for my daughters. I'm fully aware and involved with all things in their lives. Do they do some things I don't know about? Sure. However if there were a serious problem in their life, I would be aware of it, and I would ADDRESS it if they were unable to do so on their own. I wouldn't send a few pathetic emails.


The fact that the girl was still in the school system, and was still on social media, is a clear and complete failure by the parents. Period.

Damn right I do. I can easily recognize complete failure when I see it.

I'm not afraid to call it out either, especially when it costs a young girl her life.

You can try to make this personal if you want. It just weakens your position.

My situation isn't even in the same zip code as this situation.

Correct

From Page 1:





And you know with 100% certainty that that was the extent of their action because.....

I have no sympathy for you.. so we do agree there..

given that you have no idea what your children do every day, you're at best a fraction as involved as the parents in the article were in their daughter's life.

I think that you, like most people, are the product of the environment that you create for yourself which is very telling in the sides of the arguments you always take on these types of social issues.

if we were in closer proximity, exactly what would you do?
the only reason I ask is because you are illustrating EXACTLY the type of bullying tactics on this thread that the 13 year old girl had to endure both online and face to face in front of her peers.

of course you think it's her fault..
just like it's BOOMER's fault that you posted something on the internet and then had it brought up in a public forum.


we can too.. I assure you..

Yes, I remembered your post about your son as well. That's great that he was able to stand up for himself. But that isn't the case for everybody. And we are talking about a 13 year old girl here. Very different dynamic.

As for the rest, we are going to continue to disagree.

She was clearly left in the school, and had access to social media.







So her dad thought this was resolved, while his daughter was posting about suicide online.



This is a perfect example of failure. The dad wants the school to address social media issues?

Your situation is not all that different.

Your responses make you look like a hypocrite.

Her fault? I NEVER said that. It's her parent's fault.

We need to get some fundamental premises straight first.

School does not provide education, and was never meant to.

School provides schooling, as in, "You got schooled!"

School does not provide a safe environment, quite the opposite really.

I remember being on the playground and a little voice telling me to duck, which I did.  Just then, a large piece of asphalt flew past my head.  I looked at where it came from, and saw a skinny afro-headed kid who had thrown it.  That could have killed me, and would have resulted in a concussion and significant bleeding at the least.  This was in 3rd grade too.  Kids can be brutal, especially if they come from abusive homes where there is no sanctity of life.

I also remember being physically abused by one of my teachers in a private school, who completely lost his mind and temper, when I did no wrong at all.

School is a dangerous place.  It's physically dangerous, emotionally perilous, educationally detrimental and retarding, and conditions people to submit.

The end result is a loss of realizing one's potential.  This case is one of the more extreme, but do you think this girl would have resorted to this if she had been in a nurturing environment?

Kids perceive that their parents don't care about them when they are sent to school, because any complaints about the school are interpreted as trying to weasel out of doing your duty, like everyone else.

The lesson of submission in school is so powerful, that families continue to feed the asylum without any question.  Children realize this, and just figure they will endure it until 18, realize the incremental privileges they will receive like driving and more freedom as they get older, which will help mitigate the prison-like environment until graduation.

I expended every legal avenue available to me, spent tens of thousands of dollars, and finally gave in to a system stacked against me.

I don't see that as remotely close to letting my daughter get bullied to death, and sending a few emails in a weak attempt to deal with it.