Butler County Ohio Sheriff Rick Jones: My deputies won't use Narcan - Page 4

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Butler County Ohio Sheriff Rick Jones: My deputies won't use Narcan (Page 4 of 5)

Posted: 7/7/2017 11:12:55 AM EDT

[#1]

Cops should carry Epi-Pens not Narcan. They will probably be the first guy on the scene of a kid with a peanut allergy. All they get to do is watch him die. Show-up at some shitbirds OD and save their life.

That's about as fucked-up as it gets.

Posted: 7/7/2017 11:16:46 AM EDT

[#2]

Quote History

Quoted:
Y'all are pro-life but only as far as fetuses are concerned.

"Drug addicts? Well I don't understand how addiction works, so I'll just consider them flawed subhuman scum that deserves a painful death in a gutter so I don't have to feel any empathy for them. It's the Christian thing to do."

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Lol look whose back. The actual DU "you don't agree with me" guy.

Posted: 7/7/2017 11:17:33 AM EDT

[#3]

Quote History

Quoted:
Y'all are pro-life but only as far as fetuses are concerned.

"Drug addicts? Well I don't understand how addiction works, so I'll just consider them flawed subhuman scum that deserves a painful death in a gutter so I don't have to feel any empathy for them. It's the Christian thing to do."

View Quote

Posted: 7/7/2017 11:27:59 AM EDT

[#4]

Medical stuff is why God invented paramedics...deputies provide armed cover for the medics

Posted: 7/7/2017 11:31:28 AM EDT

[#5]

He kind of has a bit of a point.

Where do you stop trying to save the life of a person who's "done it to themselves" in your opinion?

The fat fuck having a heart attack after his third box of Banquet frozen fried chicken?

The reckless kid who wrapped his sports car around a tree?

The guy who streamered in under a bad chute?

"Sorry. You're an idiot. Darwin at work. You asked for it".

Posted: 7/7/2017 11:32:24 AM EDT

[#6]

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Quoted:
Medical stuff is why God invented paramedics...deputies provide armed cover for the medics

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Plenty of cops are using narcan, this a policy decision by a sheriff to let people die who could be saved. Seems like he's not alone in that, some city councilmanin Ohio proposed only saving drug users three times. I've been to Steubenville, who can blame them for using heroin?

Posted: 7/7/2017 11:33:51 AM EDT

[#7]

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Quoted:
dont most people revived on narcan get pissed you fucked up their High anyway?

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They can if slammed like in the old days but given slowly IV or in low doses you can get their breathing back without fully waking them up. Sometimes they puke and that causes problem that I don't know f cps are going to be trained to handle.

Posted: 7/7/2017 11:47:25 AM EDT

[#8]

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Quoted:
Lol look whose back. The actual DU "you don't agree with me" guy.

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*who's

Posted: 7/7/2017 11:54:39 AM EDT

[#9]

Quote History

Quoted:
Medical stuff is why God invented paramedics...deputies provide armed cover for the medics

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Or (for example) do CPR and use AED until paramedics get there. Of course I have had paramedics arrive and tell me to continue CPR while they hooked up the patient to the EKG and started to prepare injections.

Posted: 7/7/2017 12:20:22 PM EDT

[#10]

Good

Now i am not sure if they were joking or not, i would like to think they were, i overheard a conversation at the table next to mine when i was out eating. it was a table full of 20 somethings and they were talking about H and all the problems and were talking about trying it to see what its all about as " everyone has narcan now, so its not like we would die"

They said it in a laughing tone as i would like to think that they weren't that stupid but who knows these days

Posted: 7/7/2017 12:27:02 PM EDT

[#11]

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Quoted:
The doctors getting blamed is fake news. The "opioid epidemic" is fake news. It's a heroin epidemic. The news can't call it that, because it's all coming through the border that liberals want to stay open. People aren't OD'ing on pills they got from their doctor, and doctors aren't creating addicts. Maybe they prescribe opioids to future addicts, who find that they like them enough to switch to heroin, but that has nothing to do with the doctors. The one and only problem is that heroin is pouring through the border. As with any drug, the market is unlimited.

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Quoted:
Because doctors were giving out way too many opioids and the Mexican drug cartels made a business decision to flood the US with more and cheaper heroin.

Herion and opiods abuse is ridiculously common now. I see people involved in it all the time who are not "typical junkies." It's even in high schools.

The doctors getting blamed is fake news. The "opioid epidemic" is fake news. It's a heroin epidemic. The news can't call it that, because it's all coming through the border that liberals want to stay open. People aren't OD'ing on pills they got from their doctor, and doctors aren't creating addicts. Maybe they prescribe opioids to future addicts, who find that they like them enough to switch to heroin, but that has nothing to do with the doctors. The one and only problem is that heroin is pouring through the border. As with any drug, the market is unlimited.

I disagree.

I've dealt with multiple people who started out non addicts, and got injured somehow, (car accident, work related, whatever), and became addicted to opioid based pain killers. When they were unable to get prescription pain meds any longer, they switched to heroin.

I've worked several suicides and OD's that were a direct result of addiction to prescription pain killers.

Posted: 7/7/2017 12:36:18 PM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
Y'all are pro-life but only as far as fetuses are concerned.

"Drug addicts? Well I don't understand how addiction works, so I'll just consider them flawed subhuman scum that deserves a painful death in a gutter so I don't have to feel any empathy for them. It's the Christian thing to do."

View Quote

You conveniently leave out free will.
Most addicts chose to do drugs. You show me a valid peer reviewed study proving Fetuses can and do consent to abortions, and you'll a fair comparison.

Until then, you're making a strawman to argue against.

Posted: 7/7/2017 12:38:05 PM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
I disagree.

I've dealt with multiple people who started out non addicts, and got injured somehow, (car accident, work related, whatever), and became addicted to opioid based pain killers. When they were unable to get prescription pain meds any longer, they switched to heroin.

I've worked several suicides and OD's that were a direct result of addiction to prescription pain killers.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Because doctors were giving out way too many opioids and the Mexican drug cartels made a business decision to flood the US with more and cheaper heroin.

Herion and opiods abuse is ridiculously common now. I see people involved in it all the time who are not "typical junkies." It's even in high schools.

The doctors getting blamed is fake news. The "opioid epidemic" is fake news. It's a heroin epidemic. The news can't call it that, because it's all coming through the border that liberals want to stay open. People aren't OD'ing on pills they got from their doctor, and doctors aren't creating addicts. Maybe they prescribe opioids to future addicts, who find that they like them enough to switch to heroin, but that has nothing to do with the doctors. The one and only problem is that heroin is pouring through the border. As with any drug, the market is unlimited.

I disagree.

I've dealt with multiple people who started out non addicts, and got injured somehow, (car accident, work related, whatever), and became addicted to opioid based pain killers. When they were unable to get prescription pain meds any longer, they switched to heroin.

I've worked several suicides and OD's that were a direct result of addiction to prescription pain killers.

I don't doubt that they're out there, but the vast majority of addicts are able-bodied people that have never been hurt. I don't believe that doctors are stupid enough to get their patients addicted. The ones that get addicted through prescriptions get some pills, and like abusing them, so they go to multiple doctors to get more. It has nothing to do with doctors over-prescribing, and addicting innocent patients.

ETA: Also, I would bet money that the people that you knew were not addicted to pain meds when the switched to heroin. They just missed their opioids.

Posted: 7/7/2017 12:39:50 PM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:
I disagree.

I've dealt with multiple people who started out non addicts, and got injured somehow, (car accident, work related, whatever), and became addicted to opioid based pain killers. When they were unable to get prescription pain meds any longer, they switched to heroin.

I've worked several suicides and OD's that were a direct result of addiction to prescription pain killers.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Because doctors were giving out way too many opioids and the Mexican drug cartels made a business decision to flood the US with more and cheaper heroin.

Herion and opiods abuse is ridiculously common now. I see people involved in it all the time who are not "typical junkies." It's even in high schools.

The doctors getting blamed is fake news. The "opioid epidemic" is fake news. It's a heroin epidemic. The news can't call it that, because it's all coming through the border that liberals want to stay open. People aren't OD'ing on pills they got from their doctor, and doctors aren't creating addicts. Maybe they prescribe opioids to future addicts, who find that they like them enough to switch to heroin, but that has nothing to do with the doctors. The one and only problem is that heroin is pouring through the border. As with any drug, the market is unlimited.

I disagree.

I've dealt with multiple people who started out non addicts, and got injured somehow, (car accident, work related, whatever), and became addicted to opioid based pain killers. When they were unable to get prescription pain meds any longer, they switched to heroin.

I've worked several suicides and OD's that were a direct result of addiction to prescription pain killers.

I agree with you.
Drug manufacturer to stop selling opioid painkiller at FDA request because of abuse

Oklahoma AG Sues Prescription Opioid Drug Manufacturers

Since 2009, Hunter said, more Oklahoma residents have died from opioid-related deaths than in vehicle crashes in the state. The lawsuit states that Oklahoma is one of the leading states in prescription painkiller sales per capita, with 128 painkiller prescriptions dispensed per 100 people in 2012.

Posted: 7/7/2017 12:41:07 PM EDT

[#15]

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Quoted:
There was an officer in Ohio who was hospitalized after getting the elephant stuff on his uniform and brushing it off

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We just got training on Narcan for personal protective purposes.
We received a bulletin about how tow officers, (NJ I think) were damn near killed by contact with Carfentanyl which a no shit elephant anesthetic. Fentanyl is supposed to be 10x stronger than heroin, and Carfentanyl is supposed to be 10x stronger than normal fentanyl.

These two cops thought they were just dealing with fentanyl instead of the carfentanyl they really had. One got it on his uniform and the other brushed it off, causing it to become airborne and they accidentally inhaled some, and were pretty quickly put down.

They were saved by immediate EMS response and repeated Narcan treatments.

There was an officer in Ohio who was hospitalized after getting the elephant stuff on his uniform and brushing it off

That might be the one I'm thinking of.

The in service training we received from our FD and medics described Carfentanyl as having a gray concrete appearance when cut with something else.
No shit, less than 2 hours after that training, I wound up locking up some asshole who was an IV drug user and had a gray concrete colored rock of an unknown substance, wrapped in plastic, and hidden inside his ball cap.

I was extremely careful and deliberate around that stuff. It got placed into a small glass vial, which got sealed into a small plastic evidence bag, which then got sealed into a larger plastic evidence bag. I want fuck all to do with that shit.

Posted: 7/7/2017 12:44:44 PM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:

You conveniently leave out free will.
Most addicts chose to do drugs. You show me a valid peer reviewed study proving Fetuses can and do consent to abortions, and you'll a fair comparison.

Until then, you're making a strawman to argue against.

View Quote

If you think addicts have free will, you don't understand addiction on even a fundamental level, nor do you understand how people become addicted in the first place. This isn't surprising, and is what leads to the "fuck them, they made their choice, let the scum die" attitude.

Posted: 7/7/2017 12:48:09 PM EDT

[#17]

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Quoted:
I agree with you.
Drug manufacturer to stop selling opioid painkiller at FDA request because of abuse

Oklahoma AG Sues Prescription Opioid Drug Manufacturers

Since 2009, Hunter said, more Oklahoma residents have died from opioid-related deaths than in vehicle crashes in the state. The lawsuit states that Oklahoma is one of the leading states in prescription painkiller sales per capita, with 128 painkiller prescriptions dispensed per 100 people in 2012.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Because doctors were giving out way too many opioids and the Mexican drug cartels made a business decision to flood the US with more and cheaper heroin.

Herion and opiods abuse is ridiculously common now. I see people involved in it all the time who are not "typical junkies." It's even in high schools.

The doctors getting blamed is fake news. The "opioid epidemic" is fake news. It's a heroin epidemic. The news can't call it that, because it's all coming through the border that liberals want to stay open. People aren't OD'ing on pills they got from their doctor, and doctors aren't creating addicts. Maybe they prescribe opioids to future addicts, who find that they like them enough to switch to heroin, but that has nothing to do with the doctors. The one and only problem is that heroin is pouring through the border. As with any drug, the market is unlimited.

I disagree.

I've dealt with multiple people who started out non addicts, and got injured somehow, (car accident, work related, whatever), and became addicted to opioid based pain killers. When they were unable to get prescription pain meds any longer, they switched to heroin.

I've worked several suicides and OD's that were a direct result of addiction to prescription pain killers.

I agree with you.
Drug manufacturer to stop selling opioid painkiller at FDA request because of abuse

Oklahoma AG Sues Prescription Opioid Drug Manufacturers

Since 2009, Hunter said, more Oklahoma residents have died from opioid-related deaths than in vehicle crashes in the state. The lawsuit states that Oklahoma is one of the leading states in prescription painkiller sales per capita, with 128 painkiller prescriptions dispensed per 100 people in 2012.

Fake news. From one of your links: "The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reports that opioids, including prescription painkillers, were factors in more than 33,000 deaths across the U.S. in 2015, and opioid overdoses have more than quadrupled since 2000."

Look at the charts I posted on page 3. Opioid deaths have quadrupled since 2010 because of heroin and fentanyl alone. Deaths from prescription meds are unchanged. Blaming heroin points a finger at the open border. Blaming pills points the finger at evil drug companies. Fake news.

Posted: 7/7/2017 12:50:19 PM EDT

[#18]

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Quoted:
dont most people revived on narcan get pissed you fucked up their High anyway?

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Yes

Posted: 7/7/2017 12:51:09 PM EDT

[#19]

In my experience they do one of three things depending on the rate of administering of the narc.

If it's fast and through IV they come to and exorcist vomit all over.

If it's nasally sometimes it takes multiple doses and they come to but are still high and easier to deal with.

I've also seen the fighters.

My thought on narcan is that we need it for our own Personal safety. If we ingest it through the completion of our duties we need to be able to counter act it. If a Junkie does it because they are a junkie they are a little less important in my book.

Posted: 7/7/2017 12:51:19 PM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:
If you think addicts have free will, you don't understand addiction on even a fundamental level, nor do you understand how people become addicted in the first place. This isn't surprising, and is what leads to the "fuck them, they made their choice, let the scum die" attitude.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

You conveniently leave out free will.
Most addicts chose to do drugs. You show me a valid peer reviewed study proving Fetuses can and do consent to abortions, and you'll a fair comparison.

Until then, you're making a strawman to argue against.

If you think addicts have free will, you don't understand addiction on even a fundamental level, nor do you understand how people become addicted in the first place. This isn't surprising, and is what leads to the "fuck them, they made their choice, let the scum die" attitude.

Lol.

Posted: 7/7/2017 12:53:12 PM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:

I disagree.

I've dealt with multiple people who started out non addicts, and got injured somehow, (car accident, work related, whatever), and became addicted to opioid based pain killers. When they were unable to get prescription pain meds any longer, they switched to heroin.

I've worked several suicides and OD's that were a direct result of addiction to prescription pain killers.

View Quote

It's not like docs and pharmacists don't warn them... we tell them that those meds are habit-forming.

But people like them, and so they continue to use. They start by lying to their regular doctor about how much "pain" they're in, and how they're not "just not healing" very quickly from whatever accident brought on the first script. Eventually, their regular doctor cuts them off, because while they want to give their regular/long-time patient the benefit of the doubt, they start to smell a rat after a few months... or they refer them to another specialist, or pain-management.

Then the doctor-shopping starts. They start going to different doctors... they start bouncing from ER to ER... they start making up complete bullsh*t (like faking injuries/illnesses). They start buying their meds on the street, or stealing from relatives who have meds around the house.

Some end up in rehab, or get arrested for forging-scripts/fraud... while still others switch to heroin.

Posted: 7/7/2017 12:56:28 PM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:
Cops should carry Epi-Pens not Narcan. They will probably be the first guy on the scene of a kid with a peanut allergy. All they get to do is watch him die. Show-up at some shitbirds OD and save their life.

That's about as fucked-up as it gets.

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Ive thought that too. On one hand a kid should have an epi-pen with them if they have a severe allergy to nuts or bees but on the other they are kids and might forget it or not even know they have an allergy. I think it should at least be an option to keep one in the car. I'd have no problem with tax dollars going towards this.

Posted: 7/7/2017 12:58:23 PM EDT

[#23]

Quote History

Quoted:

It's not like docs and pharmacists don't warn them... we tell them that those meds are habit-forming.

But people like them, and so they continue to use. They start by lying to their regular doctor about how much "pain" they're in, and how they're not "just not healing" very quickly from whatever accident brought on the first script. Eventually, their regular doctor cuts them off, because while they want to give their regular/long-time patient the benefit of the doubt, they start to smell a rat after a few months... or they refer them to another specialist, or pain-management.

Then the doctor-shopping starts. They start going to different doctors... they start bouncing from ER to ER... they start making up complete bullsh*t (like faking injuries/illnesses). They start buying their meds on the street, or stealing from relatives who have meds around the house.

Some end up in rehab, or get arrested for forging-scripts/fraud... while still others switch to heroin.

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Exactly. Doctors are getting the blame for "overpresribing", and laws are being passed that limit them. People get addicted to pain meds because they like abusing them, and they get hold of far more than what was prescribed.

Posted: 7/7/2017 1:00:38 PM EDT

[#24]

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Quoted:
I don't doubt that they're out there, but the vast majority of addicts are able-bodied people that have never been hurt. I don't believe thatMOST doctors are stupid enough to get their patients addicted. The ones that get addicted through prescriptions get some pills, and like abusing them, so they go to multiple doctors to get more. It has nothing to do with doctors over-prescribing, and addicting innocent patients.

ETA: Also, I would bet money that the people that you knew were not addicted to pain meds when the switched to heroin. They just missed their opioids.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Because doctors were giving out way too many opioids and the Mexican drug cartels made a business decision to flood the US with more and cheaper heroin.

Herion and opiods abuse is ridiculously common now. I see people involved in it all the time who are not "typical junkies." It's even in high schools.

The doctors getting blamed is fake news. The "opioid epidemic" is fake news. It's a heroin epidemic. The news can't call it that, because it's all coming through the border that liberals want to stay open. People aren't OD'ing on pills they got from their doctor, and doctors aren't creating addicts. Maybe they prescribe opioids to future addicts, who find that they like them enough to switch to heroin, but that has nothing to do with the doctors. The one and only problem is that heroin is pouring through the border. As with any drug, the market is unlimited.

I disagree.

I've dealt with multiple people who started out non addicts, and got injured somehow, (car accident, work related, whatever), and became addicted to opioid based pain killers. When they were unable to get prescription pain meds any longer, they switched to heroin.

I've worked several suicides and OD's that were a direct result of addiction to prescription pain killers.

I don't doubt that they're out there, but the vast majority of addicts are able-bodied people that have never been hurt. I don't believe thatMOST doctors are stupid enough to get their patients addicted. The ones that get addicted through prescriptions get some pills, and like abusing them, so they go to multiple doctors to get more. It has nothing to do with doctors over-prescribing, and addicting innocent patients.

ETA: Also, I would bet money that the people that you knew were not addicted to pain meds when the switched to heroin. They just missed their opioids.

Most doctors are not stupid enough to get patients addicted. Most doctors care about their patients. But like anyone else, there are bad people doing the job. I know of a few arrested in the past few years for selling prescriptions locally. It happens.

As for the people I knew being addicted to opioids and missing them instead of being addicted to pain meds....you'd lose that bet.

Posted: 7/7/2017 1:04:40 PM EDT

[#25]

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Quoted:

Most doctors are not stupid enough to get patients addicted. Most doctors care about their patients. But like anyone else, there are bad people doing the job. I know of a few arrested in the past few years for selling prescriptions locally. It happens.

As for the people I knew being addicted to opioids and missing them instead of being addicted to pain meds....you'd lose that bet.

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I'm sure it varies from person to person, but everyone that I personally know that uses heroin (or used until they died) started with pain meds. However, they weren't prescribed. They sought them out illegally because they just liked doing drugs and pot wasn't cutting it.

Posted: 7/7/2017 1:07:56 PM EDT

[#26]

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I'm not an animal control officer, but I have to get snakes out of houses and an rescue dogs...

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<sidebar>ACO's in my area don't deal with snakes either, they call me.</sidebar>

Posted: 7/7/2017 1:13:53 PM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:
If you think addicts have free will, you don't understand addiction on even a fundamental level, nor do you understand how people become addicted in the first place. This isn't surprising, and is what leads to the "fuck them, they made their choice, let the scum die" attitude.

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Quoted:

You conveniently leave out free will.
Most addicts chose to do drugs. You show me a valid peer reviewed study proving Fetuses can and do consent to abortions, and you'll a fair comparison.

Until then, you're making a strawman to argue against.

If you think addicts have free will, you don't understand addiction on even a fundamental level, nor do you understand how people become addicted in the first place. This isn't surprising, and is what leads to the "fuck them, they made their choice, let the scum die" attitude.

You're new here, so allow me to introduce myself.

I'm a cop in St Louis. I've been one for 13 years.
I've lost count of the drug addicts I've dealt with over the years, seriously. Unless you're a drug addiction rehabilitation counselor or an ER doc or Nurse in a large metro area hospital, or a Paramedic in a major metropolitan area, I doubt you've dealt with as many addicts as I have over the years. And I dont work in St Louis City itself, so there are far more experienced people than me out there wearing the uniform.

Personally, I have addicts in my family history, and my wife has addicts in her family as well. The addicts in my family have all died. Some after beating their long term addictions and living clean for many years, most did not get clean and OD'd. There are still addicts in my wife's family, some are long term clean, others are not. So I have some personal experience with addiction as well.

None of which changes the fact that you are erecting a straw man that does not have anything to do with the discussion at hand.

I saw the post alleging you are from DU and now over here. If so, welcome.
I'm like many others here and welcome people with different view points. Differing view points creates discussion, (which is oddly valuable on a discussion based board), and forces people to defend their viewpoints and opinions. They either do so well and could possibly convert others to their position/viewpoint, or they do so badly and convert no one and are instead forced to either reconsider their viewpoint/position, or learn to argue/debate more effectively.

You're not stupid, but you need to argue/debate more effectively. Creating straw men wont work here for very long.

Posted: 7/7/2017 1:16:08 PM EDT

[#28]

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I'm sure it varies from person to person, but everyone that I personally know that uses heroin (or used until they died) started with pain meds. However, they weren't prescribed. They sought them out illegally because they just liked doing drugs and pot wasn't cutting it.

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Quoted:

Most doctors are not stupid enough to get patients addicted. Most doctors care about their patients. But like anyone else, there are bad people doing the job. I know of a few arrested in the past few years for selling prescriptions locally. It happens.

As for the people I knew being addicted to opioids and missing them instead of being addicted to pain meds....you'd lose that bet.

I'm sure it varies from person to person, but everyone that I personally know that uses heroin (or used until they died) started with pain meds. However, they weren't prescribed. They sought them out illegally because they just liked doing drugs and pot wasn't cutting it.

Exactly, and that gets rolled into the false narrative that people became addicted to pills, and had to turn to heroin when their script ran out. They all start with pills, stolen out of their mom's medicine cabinet.

Posted: 7/7/2017 1:18:46 PM EDT

[#29]

100% support that.

You ruin some addicts $50 high...they are going to be pissed when they come to.

Oddly enough, AHA Heartsaver (Basic CPR and First Aid) teaches the use of Naloxone which I wholeheartedly disagree with.

Posted: 7/7/2017 1:18:49 PM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:
It's not like docs and pharmacists don't warn them... we tell them that those meds are habit-forming.

But people like them, and so they continue to use. They start by lying to their regular doctor about how much "pain" they're in, and how they're not "just not healing" very quickly from whatever accident brought on the first script. Eventually, their regular doctor cuts them off, because while they want to give their regular/long-time patient the benefit of the doubt, they start to smell a rat after a few months... or they refer them to another specialist, or pain-management.

Then the doctor-shopping starts. They start going to different doctors... they start bouncing from ER to ER... they start making up complete bullsh*t (like faking injuries/illnesses). They start buying their meds on the street, or stealing from relatives who have meds around the house.

Some end up in rehab, or get arrested for forging-scripts/fraud... while still others switch to heroin.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

I disagree.

I've dealt with multiple people who started out non addicts, and got injured somehow, (car accident, work related, whatever), and became addicted to opioid based pain killers. When they were unable to get prescription pain meds any longer, they switched to heroin.

I've worked several suicides and OD's that were a direct result of addiction to prescription pain killers.

It's not like docs and pharmacists don't warn them... we tell them that those meds are habit-forming.

But people like them, and so they continue to use. They start by lying to their regular doctor about how much "pain" they're in, and how they're not "just not healing" very quickly from whatever accident brought on the first script. Eventually, their regular doctor cuts them off, because while they want to give their regular/long-time patient the benefit of the doubt, they start to smell a rat after a few months... or they refer them to another specialist, or pain-management.

Then the doctor-shopping starts. They start going to different doctors... they start bouncing from ER to ER... they start making up complete bullsh*t (like faking injuries/illnesses). They start buying their meds on the street, or stealing from relatives who have meds around the house.

Some end up in rehab, or get arrested for forging-scripts/fraud... while still others switch to heroin.

Agreed. The vast majority of docs and pharmacists are good people who genuinely care about their patients. They also know they are being lied to, but their hands are tied to some extent.

The docs who are selling scripts are few and far in between, but it does happen.
Doctor/script shopping is a real thing and Missouri is working on, (or recently enacted) and prescription drug monitoring program to combat exactly this issue.

We can argue about the effectiveness of such things all day long, but I will grant Missouri is trying something which is better than bitching incessantly and doing nothing.

Posted: 7/7/2017 1:21:01 PM EDT

[#31]

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Quoted:

Agreed. The vast majority of docs and pharmacists are good people who genuinely care about their patients. They also know they are being lied to, but their hands are tied to some extent.

The docs who are selling scripts are few and far in between, but it does happen.
Doctor/script shopping is a real thing and Missouri is working on, (or recently enacted) and prescription drug monitoring program to combat exactly this issue.

We can argue about the effectiveness of such things all day long, but I will grant Missouri is trying something which is better than bitching incessantly and doing nothing.

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Ohio is passing a law limiting the number of pill a doctor can prescribe. Absolute bullshit.

Posted: 7/7/2017 1:28:51 PM EDT

[#32]

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Quoted:
Exactly, and that gets rolled into the false narrative that people became addicted to pills, and had to turn to heroin when their script ran out. They all start with pills, stolen out of their mom's medicine cabinet.

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Quoted:

Most doctors are not stupid enough to get patients addicted. Most doctors care about their patients. But like anyone else, there are bad people doing the job. I know of a few arrested in the past few years for selling prescriptions locally. It happens.

As for the people I knew being addicted to opioids and missing them instead of being addicted to pain meds....you'd lose that bet.

I'm sure it varies from person to person, but everyone that I personally know that uses heroin (or used until they died) started with pain meds. However, they weren't prescribed. They sought them out illegally because they just liked doing drugs and pot wasn't cutting it.

Exactly, and that gets rolled into the false narrative that people became addicted to pills, and had to turn to heroin when their script ran out. They all start with pills, stolen out of their mom's medicine cabinet.

No, they dont. Like I said previously, I've personally dealt with several who started out as non addicts, got injured and prescribed pain meds, got addicted to pain meds, and then when they could no longer legally obtain pain meds, turned to heroin.

I will happily grant you that it's far more rare than heroin addicts stealing pain meds, but it does happen.

Heroin addicts arent usually obtaining pain meds legally. Pain meds cost more than heroin these days, and they're already addicted to heroin....why pay more for something else that increases your risk of being arrested?

Posted: 7/7/2017 2:04:54 PM EDT

[#33]

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Quoted:

Exactly, and that gets rolled into the false narrative that people became addicted to pills, and had to turn to heroin when their script ran out. They all start with pills, stolen out of their mom's medicine cabinet.

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The most prevalent RX meds we see kids take from Mommy in my area is Xanax. There is also the component young people and "experimentation" with drugs in general (pot, x, mdma, ghb, acid, spice and xanax). We see more young people here trying heroin than meth or coke. What is killing them is often a combination of their inexperience, the dose vs purity and more fentanyl in the mix or showing up in raw form.

Posted: 7/7/2017 2:40:07 PM EDT

[#34]

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I don't know. I think maybe given the chance a LEO would rather save a life especially if the family is there hoping their son doesn't die than see some one die. Except this guy.

But I'm not a LEO so I wouldn't know what it's like in this situation.

Any LEOs here, what would you prefer?

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It all sucks. Because regardless of the nature of a medical call the people there expect LE "to do something".

Posted: 7/7/2017 2:45:37 PM EDT

[#35]

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Cops should carry Epi-Pens not Narcan. They will probably be the first guy on the scene of a kid with a peanut allergy. All they get to do is watch him die. Show-up at some shitbirds OD and save their life.

That's about as fucked-up as it gets.

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I've been doing this for a long time and not one time have I needed to use an epi-pen.

Posted: 7/7/2017 2:49:41 PM EDT

[#36]

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Intra-nasally administered narcan needs to be ambu bagged in to really take effect, at least to someone who is really blue. It's not a pulp-fiction wake up when you spray it up their nose.

I personally don't have a problem with cops (who have very minimal medical training) not administering medication. We have EMT's, medics, and nurses for that.

Let them be cops, that job is hard enough.

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I'm in this camp......addicts might want to know that when they take this shit the cops aren't going to administer Narcan.....I'm sure it wouldn't make a difference

Posted: 7/7/2017 2:56:40 PM EDT

[#37]

During my training on Narcan it was implied the main reason to have it handy was
not so much for those who OD on the drugs but in case one of use gets exposed my mistake.

This article is an example https://www.policeone.com/swat/articles/220831006-11-SWAT-officers-sick-after-exposure-to-heroin-fentanyl-during-raid/

Posted: 7/7/2017 2:57:04 PM EDT

[#38]

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Legal obligation and real life are kind of different.

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Fuck no it isn't. People need to get it through their heads, they can't have "common sense, real life" law enforcement and "MUH rights" when "common sense" doesn't go their way. The reason law enforcement has retreated to the duties we are absolutely obligated to perform is because of the public complaining to our supervisors or suing our asses off. Eventually, you lose officer discretion and common sense because they very often conflict with absolute interpretation of the law.

Oh, whoever came up with the moniker "public servant" should be taken out back, and curb stomped. The "service" comes from putting up with the dumb asses nobody else wants to deal with; the detritus that everyone else has thrown their hands up, and said "I'll just call the cops". It does not mean we're mobile burger kings where you get it your way.

Posted: 7/7/2017 3:22:57 PM EDT

[#39]

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No, they dont. Like I said previously, I've personally dealt with several who started out as non addicts, got injured and prescribed pain meds, got addicted to pain meds, and then when they could no longer legally obtain pain meds, turned to heroin.

I will happily grant you that it's far more rare than heroin addicts stealing pain meds, but it does happen.

Heroin addicts arent usually obtaining pain meds legally. Pain meds cost more than heroin these days, and they're already addicted to heroin....why pay more for something else that increases your risk of being arrested?

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The way I see it, there are two kinds of people that get hooked on prescribed pain meds. The first type take them as prescribed over an extended period of time, and become addicted. When they're no longer needed, they get weened off of them, or whatever it takes to get their life back. The vast majority of doctors, and the vast majority of patients are smart enough not to let that happen in the first place. Most people don't want to be addicts. The other type of person likes the buzz they get, and abuses their prescriptions, and shops around for more. Eventually, they encounter heroin, and it's over. Most of them were never addicted at all before they found a source of heroin.

Also, I don't buy for a second that all these people had been taking pain meds as prescribed, started having withdrawal symptoms, and chose heroin over getting medical help. The people you know almost certainly went down that road because they liked the high and they wanted more. Even so, they are a tiny fraction of the people getting hooked on heroin. It's pouring into this area, and it's at every party. People try it, like it, and before they know it, they're addicted.

Posted: 7/7/2017 3:49:03 PM EDT

[#40]

Several local PD's have refused to carry it, they said they will wait on EMS.

Posted: 7/7/2017 3:51:39 PM EDT

[#41]

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Several local PD's have refused to carry it, they said they will wait on EMS.

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Good because I don't think EMTs should stop bank robbers either, stay in your lane.

Posted: 7/7/2017 3:53:02 PM EDT

[#42]

Darwin RULES!!

Posted: 7/7/2017 4:35:28 PM EDT

[#43]

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Good because I don't think EMTs should stop bank robbers either, stay in your lane.

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Well some see differently, like my state's attorney general in prior opinions issued:

"You have asked for my opinion on the following questions:

1. Does a law enforcement officer have a legal duty to provide aid to ill, injured, and distressed persons, who are not in police custody, during an emergency?

a. If yes, are the provisions of s. 768.13, F.S., as amended by Ch. 89-71, Laws of Florida, the Good Samaritan Act, applicable to officers acting within the scope of their employment?

b. If no, is s. 768.13, F.S., supra, applicable?

2. Is a police officer protected from liability by the "Good Samaritan Act" if rendering emergency aid to persons not in police custody while off-duty?

The AG's replies:

In sum:

1. and 2. A law enforcement officer, including a police officer, has a legal duty to provide aid to ill, injured, and distressed persons who are not in police custody during an emergency whether the law enforcement officer is on-duty or acting in a law enforcement capacity off-duty. Thus, the Good Samaritan Act does not apply to such officers.

http://myfloridalegal.com/ago.nsf/Opinions/85E4F114E318503185256570006E05B3

Posted: 7/7/2017 4:45:31 PM EDT

[#44]

I'd personally go with the excuse that the money could be better spent on other priorities. (upgraded equipment, more range time, additional training, etc)

Posted: 7/7/2017 4:49:42 PM EDT

[#45]

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I'm a cop...

I'm not a locksmith, but I have to go out and unlock car doors...

I'm not a mechanic, but I have to change tires and jump off cars...

I'm not an animal control officer, but I have to get snakes out of houses and an rescue dogs...

I'm not a social worker, but I have to go out and check on the elderly and the someone that won't return your phone call...

I'm not a paramedic and I don't want to carry Narcan...

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Lucky for me I work in a place where I don't have to do any of that but the welfare checks.

Posted: 7/7/2017 4:52:09 PM EDT

[#46]

How much does a dose of Narcan cost?

Posted: 7/7/2017 5:13:43 PM EDT

[#47]

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Quoted:
Lucky for me I work in a place where I don't have to do any of that but the welfare checks.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
I'm a cop...
I'm not a locksmith, but I have to go out and unlock car doors...
I'm not a mechanic, but I have to change tires and jump off cars...
I'm not an animal control officer, but I have to get snakes out of houses and an rescue dogs...
I'm not a social worker, but I have to go out and check on the elderly and the someone that won't return your phone call...
I'm not a paramedic and I don't want to carry Narcan...

Lucky for me I work in a place where I don't have to do any of that but the welfare checks.

We didn't have to do any of that either.

Posted: 7/7/2017 5:13:57 PM EDT

[#48]

His county his rules.

Posted: 7/7/2017 5:20:58 PM EDT

[#49]

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Because doctors were giving out way too many opioids and the Mexican drug cartels made a business decision to flood the US with more and cheaper heroin.

Herion and opiods abuse is ridiculously common now. I see people involved in it all the time who are not "typical junkies." It's even in high schools.

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ya its not so cut and dry, there are a lot of good people out there who are hooked, and they never intended to get there, it could almost happen to anyone with the right set of circumstances converging at the right time

Posted: 7/7/2017 10:47:18 PM EDT

[#50]

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Never mind the little issue of it being a prescription medication. Who is prescribing it?

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Department of
Health letter of
Authorization.

Not saying my opinion one way or the other.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Butler County Ohio Sheriff Rick Jones: My deputies won't use Narcan (Page 4 of 5)

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