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Posted: 7/21/2018 1:56:14 PM EDT
[#1]
That’s a crazy crash, and a damn shame.
Glad all survived. |
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Posted: 7/21/2018 1:57:39 PM EDT
[#2]
Yes, just down the road. They were on takeoff and headed to Oshkosh. 13 persons onboard, pilot airlifted to BAMC with severe burns. No idea of the cause although some guy on FB is claiming the landing gear collapsed.
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Posted: 7/21/2018 1:58:00 PM EDT
[#3]
Thankfully no loss of life... but what a shame to lose the aircraft.
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Posted: 7/21/2018 1:58:05 PM EDT
[#4]
 Looks like the tail got away from him. Didn't sound like engine issues. Good to hear all survived. Prayers for the burned victim. |
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Posted: 7/21/2018 1:59:53 PM EDT
[#5]
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Posted: 7/21/2018 2:00:03 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, just down the road. They were taxiing for takeoff and headed to Oshkosh. 13 persons onboard, pilot arilifted to BAMC with severe burns. No idea of the cause although some guy on FB is claiming the landing gear collapsed. That fuel spray on impact is a bad, bad thing. Thank god it didn't appear to ignite while aerosolized. |
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Posted: 7/21/2018 2:01:42 PM EDT
[#7]
Flying in C-47 is on my bucket list.
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Posted: 7/21/2018 2:02:20 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That’s a crazy crash, and a damn shame. Glad all survived. |
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Posted: 7/21/2018 2:02:33 PM EDT
[#9]
Amazing no body died. Sad to loos the plane.
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Posted: 7/21/2018 2:03:56 PM EDT
[#10]
And an insurance company's adjuster somewhere just said "there goes my weekend"
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Posted: 7/21/2018 2:05:42 PM EDT
[#11]
At what point do you call it a quits with these planes, they are old. They are cool as hell but damn.
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Posted: 7/21/2018 2:06:54 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And an insurance company's adjuster somewhere just said "there goes my weekend"  Thank god they are all alive to talk about it. Hopefully the PIC can recover from his burns 100 percent. Sad to see the aircraft destroyed, But. In the end, it is an aircraft not a life. |
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Posted: 7/21/2018 2:09:50 PM EDT
[#13]
Looks like the tail never came up and a loss of directional control, which leads me to believe they had the control lock devices still on the stab and rudder during takeoff. That tail should have been flying very soon during the takeoff roll.
I was number 2 for takeoff behind a turbo converted DC-3 in Africa, looked exactly like that. That plane hit a parked Caravan and hit in a ditch next to the runway. Both control lock devices were layin aft of the wreckage. |
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Posted: 7/21/2018 2:10:59 PM EDT
[#14]
Good news with C-47’s is there stall/takeoff/land speed is so slow the chances of surviving a crash is higher than a modern jet.
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Posted: 7/21/2018 2:11:25 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
At what point do you call it a quits with these planes, they are old. They are cool as hell but damn.  Never. BTW, In many, many cases. There is such intensive restoration on these aircraft that they are essentially new. Properly maintained they will give few problems. Like all other aircraft, all it takes is one or two moving parts out of a million to cause the crash. |
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Posted: 7/21/2018 2:13:03 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looks like the tail never came up and a loss of directional control, which leads me to believe they had the control lock devices still on the stab and rudder during takeoff. That tail should have been flying very soon during the takeoff roll. I was number 2 for takeoff behind a turbo converted DC-3 in Africa, looked exactly like that. That plane hit a parked Caravan and hit in a ditch next to the runway. Both control lock devices were layin aft of the wreckage. |
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Posted: 7/21/2018 2:15:56 PM EDT
[#17]
Overloaded or outside the CG aft? Partial loss of power on left engine? Insufficient airspeed? Airplane got ahead of pilot?
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Posted: 7/21/2018 2:16:50 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I watched the video a few times... You might be onto something. That rudder was not swinging from what I can tell. |
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Posted: 7/21/2018 2:18:59 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I watched the video a few times... You might be onto something. That rudder was not swinging from what I can tell. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Looks like the tail never came up and a loss of directional control, which leads me to believe they had the control lock devices still on the stab and rudder during takeoff. That tail should have been flying very soon during the takeoff roll. I was number 2 for takeoff behind a turbo converted DC-3 in Africa, looked exactly like that. That plane hit a parked Caravan and hit in a ditch next to the runway. Both control lock devices were layin aft of the wreckage. |
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Posted: 7/21/2018 2:23:29 PM EDT
[#20]
Looks like pilot simply pulled up too soon, Looks like the aircraft simply didn't have enough airspeed. Rode in one years ago. Your seating reclined until
tail raises then rotate. |
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Posted: 7/21/2018 2:23:48 PM EDT
[#21]
Definitely control lock. Sad waste of a C47, glad no one was killed.
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Posted: 7/21/2018 2:24:57 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It didn't appear that any of the tail surfaces were moving. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Looks like the tail never came up and a loss of directional control, which leads me to believe they had the control lock devices still on the stab and rudder during takeoff. That tail should have been flying very soon during the takeoff roll. I was number 2 for takeoff behind a turbo converted DC-3 in Africa, looked exactly like that. That plane hit a parked Caravan and hit in a ditch next to the runway. Both control lock devices were layin aft of the wreckage. looking at the video again on a bigger screen, It looks like the rudder does swing pretty hard during the stall. Possibly an unexpected crosswind or the tail just got away from the pilot. Tail draggers can be a real handful. I would say, the tail got away and the pilot rotated to try and recover without sufficient airspeed. That was most definitely a stall that preceeded the ground loop. |
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Posted: 7/21/2018 2:27:01 PM EDT
[#23]
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Posted: 7/21/2018 2:30:44 PM EDT
[#24]
Another one down.
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Posted: 7/21/2018 2:31:08 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryThere is supposedly a second video out there of the evac and head count. I cannot find it. Or any good pictures. Looks like wind should not have been an issue from reports. |
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Posted: 7/21/2018 2:32:28 PM EDT
[#26]
Damn it
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Posted: 7/21/2018 2:32:29 PM EDT
[#27]
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Posted: 7/21/2018 2:39:31 PM EDT
[#28]
It’s been hotter than normal here...110 today in Dallas. That plane needed more speed to take off in this heat. It looked like it was going pretty slow.
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Posted: 7/21/2018 2:42:19 PM EDT
[#29]
See how the ass end is suppose to be off the ground during takeoff. The one that crashed was still on the ground when it tried to take off. Loss of power?
 C47 Southern Cross Takeoff |
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Posted: 7/21/2018 2:42:29 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It’s been hotter than normal here...110 today in Dallas. That plane needed more speed to take off in this heat. It looked like it was going pretty slow. It looks like the tail got away and the pilot tried to lift without having enough airspeed. |
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Posted: 7/21/2018 2:48:47 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Overloaded or outside the CG aft? Partial loss of power on left engine? Insufficient airspeed? Airplane got ahead of pilot? |
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Posted: 7/21/2018 2:49:54 PM EDT
[#32]
Not loss of power. Loss of control. You have to be able to fly the tail. Slight forward pressure on the control wheel, even at low air speeds will bring the tail up.
You can't fly the tail if your controls are locked. And you can't "try to pull up" if your fucking tail wheel is still on the ground. There is no more angle of attack to be had if your tail is on the ground. |
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Posted: 7/21/2018 2:51:44 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are 13 people on the aircraft that just said "there goes my vacation and our airplane". Thank god they are all alive to talk about it. Hopefully the PIC can recover from his burns 100 percent. Sad to see the aircraft destroyed, But. In the end, it is an aircraft not a life. |
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Posted: 7/21/2018 2:54:11 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not loss of power. Loss of control. You have to be able to fly the tail. Slight forward pressure on the control wheel, even at low air speeds will bring the tail up. You can't fly the tail if your controls are locked. However in the video the elevator is in the up position at about 20 degree position. He was forcing the tail in to the ground. I was in the gust lock camp. But having installed gust locks on a c-47, when the locks are on properly you have no movement. I think the tail got away from him. |
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Posted: 7/21/2018 2:54:15 PM EDT
[#35]
Looks like loss of elevator control to me.
Just my opinion of course. |
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Posted: 7/21/2018 2:58:56 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is a beautiful plane shame to see her burn. She goes up for short local tours of the area. From what I understand the one that got airlifted had burns to arms, legs and waist. Three others had minor burns and were transferred from local hospital to higher care. Was original total of 9 patients. I hope all can recover 100 percent. |
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Posted: 7/21/2018 3:08:47 PM EDT
[#37]
Damn shame. Hope everyone comes out OK. Those birds may be old, but they're probably the toughest damn airframes ever built. Some of the things they've come through still flying are amazing.
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Posted: 7/21/2018 3:14:22 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Damn shame. Hope everyone comes out OK. Those birds may be old, but they're probably the toughest damn airframes ever built. Some of the things they've come through still flying are amazing. https://m.facebook.com/burnetbulletin/photos/a.677770242281925.1073741825.104782256247396/1861690023889935/?type=3 |
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Posted: 7/21/2018 3:18:55 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I watched the video a few times... You might be onto something. That rudder was not swinging from what I can tell. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Looks like the tail never came up and a loss of directional control, which leads me to believe they had the control lock devices still on the stab and rudder during takeoff. That tail should have been flying very soon during the takeoff roll. I was number 2 for takeoff behind a turbo converted DC-3 in Africa, looked exactly like that. That plane hit a parked Caravan and hit in a ditch next to the runway. Both control lock devices were layin aft of the wreckage. |
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Posted: 7/21/2018 3:24:04 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's what it looked like to me as well. Aircraft was veering off the paved runway. Pilot didn't pull the power off??? What the hell?? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Looks like the tail never came up and a loss of directional control, which leads me to believe they had the control lock devices still on the stab and rudder during takeoff. That tail should have been flying very soon during the takeoff roll. I was number 2 for takeoff behind a turbo converted DC-3 in Africa, looked exactly like that. That plane hit a parked Caravan and hit in a ditch next to the runway. Both control lock devices were layin aft of the wreckage. I am beginning to think he got behind the tail and tried to force the plane off of the ground when it departed the runway, without enough airspeed. If that was the case he might have been better off to continue the takeoff from the grass seeing the C-47 is an off runway capable aircraft. Having installed gust locks on c-47's and DC-3's, Once installed properly there should be no movement. That is a crap quality video, but I cannot see any locks visible either. We will see for sure upon the investigation. |
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Posted: 7/21/2018 3:25:07 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
At what point do you call it a quits with these planes, they are old. They are cool as hell but damn. The control surfaces are activated by cable, IIRC, which is old school, but also simple and dependable. Shit happens. That doesn't mean the examples still flying are not flightworthy. |
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Posted: 7/21/2018 3:25:07 PM EDT
[#42]
Probably a museum pilot, they have been crashing a lot of relics lately. If the controls are locked the first step is to promptly abort takeoff. It should have been obvious the controls were locked early in the takeoff run. I didn't see any flaps, looks like the tailwheel is kicking up dirt. Did he lose direction control? What was the wind doing? I believe he should have aborted takeoff when he realized he was in trouble.
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Posted: 7/21/2018 3:26:12 PM EDT
[#43]
When you guys say "the tail got away from him", please explain to us non-pilots.
Also, what do you mean by "control locks"? |
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Posted: 7/21/2018 3:26:41 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looks like the tail never came up and a loss of directional control, which leads me to believe they had the control lock devices still on the stab and rudder during takeoff. That tail should have been flying very soon during the takeoff roll. I was number 2 for takeoff behind a turbo converted DC-3 in Africa, looked exactly like that. That plane hit a parked Caravan and hit in a ditch next to the runway. Both control lock devices were layin aft of the wreckage. |
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Posted: 7/21/2018 3:31:48 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote History |
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Posted: 7/21/2018 3:32:09 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When you guys say "the tail got away from him", please explain to us non-pilots. Also, what do you mean by "control locks"? Edit: Control locks on that aircraft are metal devices that hold the moving part of the tail surfaces against the non- moving parts to keep them from moving while the aircraft is parked. Wind gusts can slam the controls around if they are not installed. They attach usually with bungee cords, and have red flags on them to remind pilots to remove before flight. |
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Posted: 7/21/2018 3:33:39 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When you guys say "the tail got away from him", please explain to us non-pilots. Also, what do you mean by "control locks"? There are control locks and gust locks. Control locks generally install on the yokes and prevent the control of the... well controls. Gust locks install on the control surfaces and prevent the wind from allowing the control surfaces to move freely in the wind. If either are not removed you have no control over the aircraft. |
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Posted: 7/21/2018 3:37:13 PM EDT
[#48]
The tiger had them by the tail shortly after brakes release.
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Posted: 7/21/2018 3:37:29 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They didn't perform a walk around to verify the control surfaces were free? Jeez. |
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Posted: 7/21/2018 3:39:23 PM EDT
[#50]
If the rudder was locked how would the plane taxi into position for take off?
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