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Posted: 11/12/2023 10:19:35 AM EDT
A road map in the glove compartment of your car. A travel map in your backpack. A world map on your wall, with pins poked in the countries you've visited.
For older generations, maps are more than just pieces of paper they're symbols of where we've been and where we might go. But as GPS and cell phones take over, is map-reading becoming a lost skill? In January, The Guardian reported that three-quarters of UK adults have trouble reading a map; and in 2019, even one of the inventors of the GPS navigating system lamented there was a drawback to his advancement. "The fact is that people don't know how to read maps anymore. I love maps," said Professor Bradford Parkinson, according to Yahoo News. It's a concern shared by Brad Green, who, along with his partner Petra Thoms, owns the shop World of Maps in Ottawa. Green estimates that the shop, which has run a successful business since 1994, has thousands of maps in stock, and tens of thousands more in its electronic library, ready to be printed. "There is a bit of a risk of it becoming a lost skill,' Green said of map reading. "And I think what you lose is the big picture." What a hyper-local phone map doesn't necessarily give you is perspective, Green explained. For example, if you look from the Arctic Circle down, Canada borders on Greenland; if you look at a map of North America, Point Pelee, Ont., runs along the same latitude as Northern California. moar  |
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Posted: 11/12/2023 10:25:19 AM EDT
[#1]
Maps are for boomers and lazy .gov employees
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Posted: 11/12/2023 10:28:54 AM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 11/12/2023 10:29:30 AM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 11/12/2023 10:29:59 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maps are for boomers and lazy .gov employees Renter. |
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Posted: 11/12/2023 10:30:45 AM EDT
[#5]
 Miss Teen USA 2007 - South Carolina answers a question |
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Posted: 11/12/2023 10:31:26 AM EDT
[#6]
It is not just map reading, it is just generally knowing where you are which direction you are going.
I was with a person that was 100% GPS to get anywhere, the think quit working and he had no idea which way to go, I had to direct him because he was just lost without being told where to go. It was funny as hell to me, not such for him. |
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Posted: 11/12/2023 10:31:31 AM EDT
[#7]
I love reading maps.
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Posted: 11/12/2023 10:31:52 AM EDT
[#8]
Maps don't rely on batteries or cell networks.
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Posted: 11/12/2023 10:33:02 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maps are for boomers and lazy .gov employees Maps are for smart people, they know to have a backup plan. Electronics are for dumb people, that forget batteries or to charge the device before using it. |
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Posted: 11/12/2023 10:33:39 AM EDT
[#10]
I'm struggling to imagine how someone would have trouble reading a damn map.
Even if they're a couch potato surely they've been exposed to the concept through videogames? It's not difficult to wrap your head around. |
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Posted: 11/12/2023 10:34:19 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maps are for boomers and lazy .gov employees I usually like your posts, and assume you're being facetious with this one. 
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Posted: 11/12/2023 10:34:33 AM EDT
[#12]
When hiking I can get much more accurate and up to date maps on my phone with GaiaGPS and it has an arrow showing me exactly where I am.
I've looked at paper maps once or twice when hiking and they are often dated with trails that no longer exist or no mention of current trails I'm standing in front of. |
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Posted: 11/12/2023 10:38:57 AM EDT
[#13]
You're dealing with young adults that have never lived in a house with a plugged In phone. Of course map reading and many other basic skills will be nonexistent.
Idiocracy was a documentary, now leave me alone I'm bating. |
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Posted: 11/12/2023 10:40:21 AM EDT
[#14]
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Posted: 11/12/2023 10:40:54 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm struggling to imagine how someone would have trouble reading a damn map. Even if they're a couch potato surely they've been exposed to the concept through videogames? It's not difficult to wrap your head around. Especially when most nav systems display your position on a map. |
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Posted: 11/12/2023 10:41:43 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I love reading maps. This. I love all maps, especially Virginia antebellum maps to local VA road maps pre-1980s. They give a sense of history that GPS never could. |
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Posted: 11/12/2023 10:51:52 AM EDT
[#17]
Most people can't find the cardinal directions when the Sun is shining, let alone reason and correlate its position with a clock.
Or calculate time enroute for a trip. Maps are indecipherable hieroglyphics. How many people do you suppose have no idea that magnetic north and geographic north are in different locations, or that they pass through lines of magnetic deviation on a trip? My confidence is so low that I'll bet the number of people that can identify the continent where they live is small. Probably bang on pans to drive away bad spirits when they see a string of Starlink satellites pass overhead - if they could be pried away from a phone and go outside in the dark. |
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Posted: 11/12/2023 11:13:48 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryHow funny would it have been if she leaned forward and said, "Because 1/5th of Americans are idiots." |
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Posted: 11/12/2023 11:15:15 AM EDT
[#19]
If you can read/follow a GPS, you can read/follow a map.
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Posted: 11/12/2023 11:16:36 AM EDT
[#20]
Still carry some folded 24x36" maps quad maps on the forest I got when I worked for the US Forest Service.
The backroads of TX mapbook has a lot of passable roads and such that never show up on google maps/GPS. Company moved and wasn't on any online mas yet so I called and I asked the receptionist which side of the 4 lane road they were on. The left was the answer. Not north or south, the left. So obviously only worked if you were coming from the direction she went to work everyday. |
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Posted: 11/12/2023 11:16:37 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Renter. 
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Posted: 11/12/2023 11:19:56 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Especially when most nav systems display your position on a map. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm struggling to imagine how someone would have trouble reading a damn map. Even if they're a couch potato surely they've been exposed to the concept through videogames? It's not difficult to wrap your head around. Especially when most nav systems display your position on a map. |
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Posted: 11/12/2023 11:20:31 AM EDT
[#23]
After reading this, I just put map reading on our home schooling agenda for next week. We have done basic ones before but time for the real deal.
I will probably combine it with some sort of treasure hunt game. |
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Posted: 11/12/2023 11:20:56 AM EDT
[#24]
Reno NV is further west than Los Angeles CA.
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Posted: 11/12/2023 11:21:16 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistorySome company has seriously managed to ruin even something as simple as a map protractor with ueber tactical branding? |
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Posted: 11/12/2023 11:22:53 AM EDT
[#26]
Get a book called "The Essential Wilderness Navigator".
It's a quick read and you will know everything you need to know about using real maps. |
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Posted: 11/12/2023 11:23:32 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you can read/follow a GPS, you can read/follow a map. I think the focus of the gripe is those who rely wholly on turn by turn directions. Because, if anything, modern GPS apps have made maps and mapping more relevant and ubiquitous than ever before. But yes, people can get stupidly myopic if they don't use the tools they have to their full extent. |
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Posted: 11/12/2023 11:24:40 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I unnerved someone when I was driving with North locked on my cell phone, rather than having the position of travel locked in the up position. He had a bit of a time figuring that one out. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm struggling to imagine how someone would have trouble reading a damn map. Even if they're a couch potato surely they've been exposed to the concept through videogames? It's not difficult to wrap your head around. Especially when most nav systems display your position on a map. I always have mine set to that. Not sure how anyone keeps their bearings otherwise... I guess they don't care to. |
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Posted: 11/12/2023 11:28:15 AM EDT
[#29]
It's a concern shared by Brad Green, who, along with his partner Petra Thoms, owns the shop World of Maps in Ottawa. Brad and his partner. For fuck's sake. You know... when the signal is turned off, some people will simply die in place because they won't know what else to do. |
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Posted: 11/12/2023 11:28:22 AM EDT
[#30]
Electronic maps are, indeed, very poor at giving you big picture information. Screen size and resolution simply isn't sufficient.
But, then again, maps can be notoriously bad at telling you where you are. Not to mention the age of maps and legends, the inaccuracies of that map to begin with, and so forth. |
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Posted: 11/12/2023 11:31:11 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How funny would it have been if she leaned forward and said, "Because 1/5th of Americans are idiots." Quote HistoryQuoted: How funny would it have been if she leaned forward and said, "Because 1/5th of Americans are idiots." "Because America is a free country and people have the freedom to be total buttfucking morons if they want. According to that poll I can assume that 20% of Americans have made that choice." |
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Posted: 11/12/2023 11:32:23 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maps don't rely on batteries or cell networks. This right here. |
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Posted: 11/12/2023 11:34:35 AM EDT
[#33]
I excelled at map nav.
I love GIS too The key to map nav is to always know where you are and you'll never be lost. Q: How many 2LT's does it take to read a map? A: Three. One to watch the map while the other two shake a tree. |
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Posted: 11/12/2023 11:35:02 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I always have mine set to that. Not sure how anyone keeps their bearings otherwise... I guess they don't care to. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm struggling to imagine how someone would have trouble reading a damn map. Even if they're a couch potato surely they've been exposed to the concept through videogames? It's not difficult to wrap your head around. Especially when most nav systems display your position on a map. I always have mine set to that. Not sure how anyone keeps their bearings otherwise... I guess they don't care to. That's just weird.  Do you not have an innate sense of which way the cardinal directions are without referencing a GPS or map? Whatever, if it works for you, it works. |
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Posted: 11/12/2023 11:35:37 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you can read/follow a GPS, you can read/follow a map. This. A GPS is a map. A paper map is a map. If you can use one you can use the other. GPS maps have a few advantages and disadvantages. Paper maps have a few advantages and disadvantages. |
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Posted: 11/12/2023 11:36:24 AM EDT
[#36]
I tell my teenage daughters about how you would keep a map book in the car...turn to the back, look up the street then turn to page 17 and look in B5 on the grid for your street and they look at me like I'm a timetraveler from the past, lol.
Still keep a map book in the car... |
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Posted: 11/12/2023 11:37:26 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Electronic maps are, indeed, very poor at giving you big picture information. Screen size and resolution simply isn't sufficient. But, then again, maps can be notoriously bad at telling you where you are. Not to mention the age of maps and legends, the inaccuracies of that map to begin with, and so forth. Maps do not tell you where you are. Maps give you the ability to determine where you are. You have to do the work - It may seem nuanced, but that's the way it works.. A GPS, and a good map is a great combination, especially if you can use UTM for both. Depending on the Datum, you can use the GPS to navigate very close to any spot on a map. If we're just talking about roads and cities, then yes, a GPS is probably all you need. Both are tools. Both should be in your tool box. |
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Posted: 11/12/2023 11:37:32 AM EDT
[#38]
I worked for Verizon right out of high school. Map reading(road maps) was part of the test to get in. My dad, who also worked for Verizon made me go to the study group they had before the test as that's where most applicants failed. I still remember to this day how bad the people in my group were at reading a map book. I was 17 and everyone in the group was at least double my age. It's not a new phenomenon. That was 25 years ago and pre consumer gps.
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Posted: 11/12/2023 11:37:48 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's just weird. Do you not have an innate sense of which way the cardinal directions are without referencing a GPS or map? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm struggling to imagine how someone would have trouble reading a damn map. Even if they're a couch potato surely they've been exposed to the concept through videogames? It's not difficult to wrap your head around. Especially when most nav systems display your position on a map. I always have mine set to that. Not sure how anyone keeps their bearings otherwise... I guess they don't care to. That's just weird. Do you not have an innate sense of which way the cardinal directions are without referencing a GPS or map? Pretty easy to get turned around without decent visual cues. |
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Posted: 11/12/2023 11:39:04 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Most people can't find the cardinal directions when the Sun is shining, let alone reason and correlate its position with a clock. Or calculate time enroute for a trip. Maps are indecipherable hieroglyphics. How many people do you suppose have no idea that magnetic north and geographic north are in different locations, or that they pass through lines of magnetic deviation on a trip? My confidence is so low that I'll bet the number of people that can identify the continent where they live is small. Probably bang on pans to drive away bad spirits when they see a string of Starlink satellites pass overhead - if they could be pried away from a phone and go outside in the dark. Mag Var was the bane of my existence while doing the Navigation course at TWA.  |
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Posted: 11/12/2023 11:39:50 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you can read/follow a GPS, you can read/follow a map. Chances are that you say that understanding the ideas of using the key, terrain features, elevation lines, cardinal directions, degrees/azimuths and vectors of travel, triangulation, Magnetic Declination and even the simple idea of orienting a map before calculating ANYTHING. It's too easy to use Waze or tell Google/Navigation system to take you to the mall. I don't think anyone else across two generations of my extended family could PROPERLY utilize a map irrespective of GPS location. A simple knowledge of lay lines and terrain features will assist with everything from geometry to history. It IS a lost art of gaining perspective and knowledge to many. |
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Posted: 11/12/2023 11:40:43 AM EDT
[#42]
Map reading is simple. Orienteer map to MN/LARS/HSVRD/contour lines/blue & black/right then up/pace count/Ranger beads.
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Posted: 11/12/2023 11:40:51 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maps are for boomers and lazy .gov employees Until they aren’t. |
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Posted: 11/12/2023 11:41:26 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. A GPS is a map. A paper map is a map. If you can use one you can use the other. GPS maps have a few advantages and disadvantages. Paper maps have a few advantages and disadvantages. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If you can read/follow a GPS, you can read/follow a map. This. A GPS is a map. A paper map is a map. If you can use one you can use the other. GPS maps have a few advantages and disadvantages. Paper maps have a few advantages and disadvantages. Hand a state road map to the average person under 40 and ask them to find Turner Street. They will be clueless. |
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Posted: 11/12/2023 11:41:55 AM EDT
[#45]
I spent last weekend teaching civil air patrol cadets map reading and land navigation.
Everyone should understand lat long and UTM/MGRS Lots of folks still use a map, GPS signals can and will go out at times. Phones and GPS watch batteries will go dead. Today I will be in a Cessna with a sectional navigating. Folks need to understand how to navigate while airborne as well. Join a local Civil Air patrol squadron and you can get this training for free. Just about every squadron needs more flight crew members. Today I will get three hours flying in a Cessna getting the above training for free. If I had to pay for it, that would cost almost $600. |
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Posted: 11/12/2023 11:42:49 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maps do not tell you where you are. Maps give you the ability to determine where you are. You have to do the work - It may seem nuanced, but that's the way it works.. A GPS, and a good map is a great combination, especially if you can use UTM for both. Depending on the Datum, you can use the GPS to navigate very close to any spot on a map. If we're just talking about roads and cities, then yes, a GPS is probably all you need. Both are tools. Both should be in your tool box. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Electronic maps are, indeed, very poor at giving you big picture information. Screen size and resolution simply isn't sufficient. But, then again, maps can be notoriously bad at telling you where you are. Not to mention the age of maps and legends, the inaccuracies of that map to begin with, and so forth. Maps do not tell you where you are. Maps give you the ability to determine where you are. You have to do the work - It may seem nuanced, but that's the way it works.. A GPS, and a good map is a great combination, especially if you can use UTM for both. Depending on the Datum, you can use the GPS to navigate very close to any spot on a map. If we're just talking about roads and cities, then yes, a GPS is probably all you need. Both are tools. Both should be in your tool box. |
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Posted: 11/12/2023 11:42:54 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Brad and his partner. For fuck's sake. You know... when the signal is turned off, some people will simply die in place because they won't know what else to do. Quote HistoryQuoted: It's a concern shared by Brad Green, who, along with his partner Petra Thoms, owns the shop World of Maps in Ottawa. Brad and his partner. For fuck's sake. You know... when the signal is turned off, some people will simply die in place because they won't know what else to do. |
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Posted: 11/12/2023 11:43:26 AM EDT
[#48]
I haven't seen a paper map in over a decade. I wouldn't even know where to buy one.
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Posted: 11/12/2023 11:44:09 AM EDT
[#49]
People couldn’t read maps before GPS. It’s a brain thing.
Most of the people using GPS that can’t use a map are literally counting on the computer to tell them where to go step by step. |
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Posted: 11/12/2023 11:45:18 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mag Var was the bane of my existence while doing the Navigation course at TWA. Declination can be hard enough if dropped off somewhere at the speed of foot. Can't imagine how rough it would be at 8/10ths the speed of sound. |
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