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Posted: 6/7/2017 12:47:02 PM EDT
[#1]
Cost of education pyramid scheme. Colleges and the government a the top, teachers in the middle, students and taxpayers at the bottom.
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Posted: 6/7/2017 12:48:06 PM EDT
[#2]
It's two more years of communist indoctrination before they lock them in a room with your children for 8 hours a day.
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Posted: 6/7/2017 12:48:54 PM EDT
[#3]
Automatic raise
all about working the system |
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Posted: 6/7/2017 12:49:58 PM EDT
[#4]
Former co-worker went to tOSU for education. Had to get a Masters. Couldn't find a teaching job. Yeah she'll pretty much be paying those student loans for the rest of her life.
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Posted: 6/7/2017 12:50:08 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Automatic raise all about working the system |
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Posted: 6/7/2017 12:54:13 PM EDT
[#6]
Justification for more pay.
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Posted: 6/7/2017 12:54:42 PM EDT
[#7]
Pay bump
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Posted: 6/7/2017 12:56:04 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's two more years of communist indoctrination before they lock them in a room with your children for 8 hours a day. |
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Posted: 6/7/2017 12:56:36 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pay bump Is it that they actually think they're better teachers for it? Is it a cynical move to keep teachers in your system, sort of like non-compete agreements, stock options or whatever in private industry? |
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Posted: 6/7/2017 12:59:10 PM EDT
[#10]
I couldn't get a teaching credential without a masters attached.
I went to school in Texas and needed a California Teachers Credential when I moved here. Nobody offered just the credential. More $$$ for schools to double the curriculum. I do enjoy the pay bump. Helps pay for my wife to stay home and raise our kids properly. |
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Posted: 6/7/2017 1:00:13 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But it definitely screws you as far as moving to a new school system, right? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Automatic raise all about working the system |
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Posted: 6/7/2017 1:01:30 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But it definitely screws you as far as moving to a new school system, right? My mother was a public school teacher and got a masters for pretty much that reason (automatic raise), and after we relocated to a new state, she apparently needed lots of extra college to qualify for a teaching certificate in the new state. She ended up taking a job at a private (catholic) school because they didn't require the full state certification and it included free tuition for my three youngest siblings who were still in elem or middle school at the time. Those benefits more than offset the pay difference from a public school teacher with a master's, assuming she could even have gotten a job with a PS system, after completing whatever additional college hours they wanted to require of her. |
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Posted: 6/7/2017 1:03:10 PM EDT
[#13]
See what it does is requires these people to most likely rack up a kick ass student loan debt, which means they will need a job for a long while in order to pay that off. So it's kind of a way to ensure you someone will fill the position in order to pay off their debt.
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Posted: 6/7/2017 1:04:18 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can understand why teachers do it. I'm trying to understand why society/school boards/administrators allow it. Is it that they actually think they're better teachers for it? Is it a cynical move to keep teachers in your system, sort of like non-compete agreements, stock options or whatever in private industry? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Pay bump Is it that they actually think they're better teachers for it? Is it a cynical move to keep teachers in your system, sort of like non-compete agreements, stock options or whatever in private industry? |
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Posted: 6/7/2017 1:05:21 PM EDT
[#15]
My wife is a teacher just got a masters degree and got no pay raise for it
We paid for it ourselves and no unions around here She wanted to better herself, be a better teacher and open up more opportunities in the future. Most teachers here do not have anything more than a bachelors Oh yea and she is conservative and thinks teacher unions should be illegal |
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Posted: 6/7/2017 1:06:30 PM EDT
[#16]
Because much of an undergraduate education is garbage.
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Posted: 6/7/2017 1:06:40 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But it definitely screws you as far as moving to a new school system, right? |
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Posted: 6/7/2017 1:07:05 PM EDT
[#18]
The point is to force people to stay in teaching.
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Posted: 6/7/2017 1:08:01 PM EDT
[#19]
It's not required here. I'm getting my Masters right now in Educational Administration/Building License so I can move up and become a principal. In the middle of a School Law class right now actually. It's fucking retarded and teaching me nothing.
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Posted: 6/7/2017 1:08:21 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My wife is a teacher just got a masters degree and got no pay raise for it We paid for it ourselves and no unions around here She wanted to better herself, be a better teacher and open up more opportunities in the future. Most teachers here do not have anything more than a bachelors |
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Posted: 6/7/2017 1:08:27 PM EDT
[#21]
In many cases it's a credential bubble.
Human capital is inelastic. Suppose a bachelors degree used to select for the top 30%. Selecting for that quality directly is impractical or banned, so firms check for a bachelors as a proxy. That makes a bachelors valuable, so the market reacts and expands the supply. Now the top 60% can get one. This degrades its value as a filter, so institutions have to decide on a new filter tuned for the 30% mark until the market catches up and destroys that one. |
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Posted: 6/7/2017 1:09:23 PM EDT
[#22]
It depends on the district and the state. Good districts will hire the most qualified. But if you have a masters and no experience it will be hard to get a job. Since you are basically an unknown.
I have an M.Ed it helped me a ton because my undergrad wasn't in education it was in my field. My M.Ed was a licensure program though so 3/4 or so of the way through I was licensed. I got hired before I finished then had them paid for the rest of my masters. Been on a bunch of hiring committees and never have been told to pick a lesser qualified candidate by admin. But I am sure it happens but here our hiring is done by the teachers in the department and they don't care how much someone costs. |
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Posted: 6/7/2017 1:09:34 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can understand why teachers do it. I'm trying to understand why society/school boards/administrators allow it. Is it that they actually think they're better teachers for it? Is it a cynical move to keep teachers in your system, sort of like non-compete agreements, stock options or whatever in private industry? Does a Masters automatically make you a better teacher? Of course not. Does not having a Masters make you a worse teacher? Of course not. However, it's seen as taking classes and professional development that *could* and theoretically *would* make you a better teaching for having more knowledge in your content area and/or better teaching skills/ideas/thoughts/concepts depending on the degree if it's in something like Curriculum and Instruction. |
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Posted: 6/7/2017 1:10:51 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What state? |
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Posted: 6/7/2017 1:12:11 PM EDT
[#25]
how else would they be worth 18 bucks an hour?
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Posted: 6/7/2017 1:13:17 PM EDT
[#26]
In theory, academic rigor, critical thinking and analysis skills, necessity to create and defend an argument/premise (Thesis), advanced writing abilities.
In practice, see the posts above. Also a discriminator, there are sooooooo many BAs now, they can use it as a selection criteria to reduce the pool of applicants. |
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Posted: 6/7/2017 2:15:31 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
how else would they be worth 18 bucks an hour? I bet your head explodes when you find out my wife, with a Master's in Special Education is making $27/hr. |
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Posted: 6/7/2017 2:30:48 PM EDT
[#28]
I can offer one point not mentioned yet - it's academia.
I have noticed there is a distinct caste system in academics. There are many who look down on those without degrees at all; most think a 2 yr degree is equivalent to a high school diploma. They sort of tolerate a bachlelors, but a masters is where it is at for them. Few get a doctorate, they start really doing cost / benefit ratios looking at them, but there is a university near me that keeps a full class load of teachers trying to get their doctors of learnin. Most have aspirations of either college tenure or being a principal, few are what I would expect a doctoral candidate to act or interact like. (shrugs) I guess if all you wanna do is educate little kids in a church school, you may not need it, but out in the world, you gotta have them letters after your name or no one will take you seriously. |
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Posted: 6/7/2017 2:51:57 PM EDT
[#29]
You generally have to have a masters degree to promote into administration
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Posted: 6/7/2017 2:57:09 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You generally have to have a masters degree (in Administration) to promote into administration
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Posted: 6/7/2017 3:11:22 PM EDT
[#31]
My wife is a teacher.
I believe ALL states require Continuing Education to renew your teaching certification. Her contract says that a Bachelors degree is worth X salary. But a Bachelors plus 15 hours is worth X plus a few grand more. A Bachelors plus 30 hours is worth even more salary. The teacher is essentially forced into those higher pay bands. Now, a smart teacher doesn't simply take random continuing education classes. A smart teacher takes them towards a goal of a masters degree. In something worthwhile. Most teachers get their masters in a field that helps their teaching degree, but that isn't specified in her contract. She taught for about 7 years before she realized she was wasting money. So she earned her masters degree. Even now I'm telling her she is wasting money. Her school doesn't pay more for a Ph.D., but they pay more for a masters plus 15, and a masters plus 30. She has her masters plus 4 hours simply to maintain her certification. She can knock out a 3-hour online class that counts as continuing education in a month. In less than a year she could increase her salary by more than 10%, for the rest of her career, assuming she is never fired. And this is on top of normal annual increases, as well as the annual cost of living adjustment. A teacher with a masters degree is virtually unemployable if they ever lose their job. Before anyone bitches about teachers not being paid what they are worth.... I have been educating myself on the expectations her school has for teachers. Unless you are a teacher, you wouldn't be familiar with Priority Standards, PLC Agendas, etc, The latest and greatest BS for teaching. It is insane. I'm making 50% more salary than she is. And I would not do her job at my salary. Screw that. This is my wife's salary schedule. It was downloaded from the school's website, so it is public information. 
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Posted: 6/7/2017 3:13:59 PM EDT
[#32]
Like most master's degrees I've come across, it has less to do with what you learn in the master's program, and more to do with the fact that someone showed enough dedication to complete their master's.
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Posted: 6/7/2017 3:14:33 PM EDT
[#33]
I'm at 18 years teaching high school math and physics with no masters degree. I don't see how it would be worth my time or money except to climb a ladder to administration. But one must offer homage to the liberal gods of progressivism, right? It's a racket.
and PS, name me one other industry or field where the incompetent baseline workers get moved into management as a career track? 
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Posted: 6/7/2017 3:16:48 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pay bump |
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Posted: 6/7/2017 3:17:58 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cost of education pyramid scheme. Colleges and the government a the top, teachers in the middle, students and taxpayers at the bottom. It's a self-perpetuating bureaucracy. Not much different from scientology except it's less expensive. |
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Posted: 6/7/2017 3:20:15 PM EDT
[#36]
Checks a box.
My mom had been teaching for decades when it all of a sudden became super important for her to get a Masters. She did. On her own dime, of course. |
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Posted: 6/7/2017 3:23:17 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm at 18 years teaching high school math and physics with no masters degree. I don't see how it would be worth my time or money except to climb a ladder to administration. But one must offer homage to the liberal gods of progressivism, right? It's a racket. and PS, name me one other industry or field where the incompetent baseline workers get moved into management as a career track? Florida might be different than Iowa. But here, after 18 years, with JUST your BS, you would be making $52,121 If you would have put any effort into it at all, after 18 years you should EASILY have your Masters plus 30, worth $71,128. And that isn't worth your time or money? |
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Posted: 6/7/2017 3:24:37 PM EDT
[#38]
Teachers with masters degrees tend not to fuck their students.
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Posted: 6/7/2017 3:26:33 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cost of education pyramid scheme. Colleges and the government a the top, teachers in the middle, students and taxpayers at the bottom. $200k college bill and forced to work to pay it and survive. I prefer the GI Bill, free college and $1100 a month |
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Posted: 6/7/2017 3:28:07 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can understand why teachers do it. I'm trying to understand why society/school boards/administrators allow it. Is it that they actually think they're better teachers for it? Is it a cynical move to keep teachers in your system, sort of like non-compete agreements, stock options or whatever in private industry? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Pay bump Is it that they actually think they're better teachers for it? Is it a cynical move to keep teachers in your system, sort of like non-compete agreements, stock options or whatever in private industry? |
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Posted: 6/7/2017 3:28:54 PM EDT
[#41]
I am a teacher. I have a MAgr from Texas A&M. I was awarded that degree long before I became a teacher. It has been useful as a way to slice through some educational bullshit.
MEd have gotten to be little more than participation trophies. Districts require them so they can brag that their teachers all have a master's degree. Over the years so much that has been taught in regards to pedagogy has turned out to be bull shit. What was whizzbang one year was discredited in another. What would be useful? Degrees in the subjects that are taught make more sense. In some districts it is difficult for a person with a degree in education to get a classroom position. The districts want mathematicians who have been trained to teach and not teachers who have been taught rudimentary math. In that case there might be some justification for a MEd. When I entered education in 2005, I had zero experience and strong background knowledge. I learned that I was woefully unprepared. I did not have a successful career in public education from a combination of lack of skill and a temperament ill-suited for Title 1 schools. I now teach in a private school. I am a better teacher. I also have ZERO discipline problems. If a student is disruptive, they are expelled. End of story. About 50% of all new teachers quit by the end of their 5th year. Public education is a crappy way to make a living unless you are an admin. They are not educators; they are bureaucrats and as such know how to avoid the difficult stuff, delegate the problematic stuff, and hide the screwed-up stuff. |
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Posted: 6/7/2017 3:30:21 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bitter much. I bet your head explodes when you find out my wife, with a Master's in Special Education is making $27/hr. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
how else would they be worth 18 bucks an hour? I bet your head explodes when you find out my wife, with a Master's in Special Education is making $27/hr. that... and the fact that nobody wants to put up with the [extra] associated bullshit politics on top of dealing with retards all day |
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Posted: 6/7/2017 3:30:50 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
fixt Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You generally have to have a masters degree (in Administration) to promote into administration |
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Posted: 6/7/2017 3:40:08 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Teachers with masters degrees tend not to fuck their students. |
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Posted: 6/7/2017 3:49:42 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm at 18 years teaching high school math and physics with no masters degree. I don't see how it would be worth my time or money except to climb a ladder to administration. But one must offer homage to the liberal gods of progressivism, right? It's a racket. and PS, name me one other industry or field where the incompetent baseline workers get moved into management as a career track? |
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Posted: 6/7/2017 3:52:27 PM EDT
[#46]
It's not like this is anything new. I remember one of my high school teachers (small Catholic high school) telling us she was taking summer/evening classes for her master's. This was in the mid-80s. Not sure if the license required a master's after a certain number of years in Michigan at the time. Teacher was a lady in her late 40s.
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Posted: 6/7/2017 3:53:57 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bitter much. I bet your head explodes when you find out my wife, with a Master's in Special Education is making $27/hr. |
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Posted: 6/7/2017 4:00:29 PM EDT
[#48]
Additional indoctrination
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Posted: 6/7/2017 4:01:34 PM EDT
[#49]
More revenue for colleges is the main reason.
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Posted: 6/7/2017 4:10:15 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My wife is a teacher. I believe ALL states require Continuing Education to renew your teaching certification. Her contract says that a Bachelors degree is worth X salary. But a Bachelors plus 15 hours is worth X plus a few grand more. A Bachelors plus 30 hours is worth even more salary. The teacher is essentially forced into those higher pay bands. Now, a smart teacher doesn't simply take random continuing education classes. A smart teacher takes them towards a goal of a masters degree. In something worthwhile. Most teachers get their masters in a field that helps their teaching degree, but that isn't specified in her contract. She taught for about 7 years before she realized she was wasting money. So she earned her masters degree. Even now I'm telling her she is wasting money. Her school doesn't pay more for a Ph.D., but they pay more for a masters plus 15, and a masters plus 30. She has her masters plus 4 hours simply to maintain her certification. She can knock out a 3-hour online class that counts as continuing education in a month. In less than a year she could increase her salary by more than 10%, for the rest of her career, assuming she is never fired. And this is on top of normal annual increases, as well as the annual cost of living adjustment. A teacher with a masters degree is virtually unemployable if they ever lose their job. Before anyone bitches about teachers not being paid what they are worth.... I have been educating myself on the expectations her school has for teachers. Unless you are a teacher, you wouldn't be familiar with Priority Standards, PLC Agendas, etc, The latest and greatest BS for teaching. It is insane. I'm making 50% more salary than she is. And I would not do her job at my salary. Screw that. This is my wife's salary schedule. It was downloaded from the school's website, so it is public information. http://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/74127/Salary-Schedule-225272.jpg |
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