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Posted: 6/21/2017 11:26:06 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am. Wouldn't the height advantage give the shooter a lesser angle and a better sight picture ? I would like to know the height of the building, say it was 200 feet. How much would that advantage the shooter for targeting and calculating bullet drop over distance ? |
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Posted: 6/21/2017 11:28:13 PM EDT
[#2]
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Because our prime minister withdrew our fighter/bombers. Didn't seem to stop our guys from killing people though. Starting to sound like bullshit to me, that's a VERY long flight time. ETA, I am certain there will be somebody here that has better math and ballistic skills than myself to chime in on this. |
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Posted: 6/21/2017 11:30:03 PM EDT
[#3]
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With the transit time of the projectile, he's lucky the target didn't wander off to get a Coke. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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But my book on sharpshooting and sniping doesn't mention him.  |
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Posted: 6/21/2017 11:30:09 PM EDT
[#4]
spotter did the math?
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Posted: 6/21/2017 11:30:18 PM EDT
[#5]
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With a 1000yd zero, in 120 deg temp, at 4400ft elevation, I still get: 47.7 mils of drop. Not sure how many MOA cant the Canadians have on their TAC-50s, but this one appears to be 30 or 40 MOA. S&B PMII has 26-30 Mils of total travel 40 MOA base is 11.6 mils There's a way to do it without bottoming out, but it isn't with that set-up in this photo. Another way to do it is measure a TGT ref above the intended TGT, and aim at that. https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/95/29/7a/95297ad8190a3a917a6629e75fc27709.jpg Back when cheap surplus 8mm was a thing, I used to do that to hit barrels out to 1600 to 1800 yards with a 40hit/60miss ratio on a still day. good times. Yeah that is like a 75-100 foot plus hold over. Can't remember exactly now.
We would shoot off the edge of our plateau down into a bottom. I'd use trees limbs to walk shots onto the barrels. |
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Posted: 6/21/2017 11:30:30 PM EDT
[#6]
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About every 8 months a Canadian sniper shoots a guy holding a flame thrower, or just about to kill some kids. This smacks of fake news. |
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Posted: 6/21/2017 11:31:49 PM EDT
[#7]
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With a 1000yd zero, in 120 deg temp, at 4400ft elevation, I still get: 47.7 mils of drop. Not sure how many MOA cant the Canadians have on their TAC-50s, but this one appears to be 30 or 40 MOA. S&B PMII has 26-30 Mils of total travel 40 MOA base is 11.6 mils There's a way to do it without bottoming out, but it isn't with that set-up in this photo. Another way to do it is measure a TGT ref above the intended TGT, and aim at that. https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/95/29/7a/95297ad8190a3a917a6629e75fc27709.jpg |
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Posted: 6/21/2017 11:33:36 PM EDT
[#8]
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but I still think the story is BS. |
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Posted: 6/21/2017 11:35:22 PM EDT
[#9]
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#5 is a member here Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Wow. Good shot. https://beta.images.theglobeandmail.com/429/incoming/article35416811.ece/BINARY/image.jpg 
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Posted: 6/21/2017 11:36:02 PM EDT
[#10]
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What are you talking about? The only other two times I have seen Canadian sniper's in combat make the news was for supporting American troops and other allied soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq. |
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Posted: 6/21/2017 11:36:05 PM EDT
[#11]
It never says 1st-round connect in these articles either for ELR shots, because they are almost always 4th-round or more hits.
Everyone who has done the job knows that. Modern ballistics programs have increased capabilities though, as have optics and ammunition quality. They claim they have video footage verification, and independent witness, and the Canucks never came across to me as BS artists. If the conditions were what I guessed, very high temps, and higher altitude, a 750gr AMAX would be supersonic still at 2900yds. Don't know what ammo they were shooting. |
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Posted: 6/21/2017 11:43:55 PM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 6/21/2017 11:53:01 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryThat has about 10% if the reach the Canucks claim from their 2 MOA Mac Tac .50s. I have shot with JSOC issued Mac Tac 50s and was less than impressed concerning accuracy. It's still .50 cal cool but when the targets are small it just is not that precise. |
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Posted: 6/21/2017 11:53:09 PM EDT
[#14]
Props.
There is some luck involved after seeing the Hill Country guys connect on targets at 3800 and further. |
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Posted: 6/22/2017 12:24:48 AM EDT
[#15]
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LOL. That has about 10% if the reach the Canucks claim from their 2 MOA Mac Tac .50s. I have shot with JSOC issued Mac Tac 50s and was less than impressed concerning accuracy. It's still .50 cal cool but when the targets are small it just is not that precise. Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOL. That has about 10% if the reach the Canucks claim from their 2 MOA Mac Tac .50s. I have shot with JSOC issued Mac Tac 50s and was less than impressed concerning accuracy. It's still .50 cal cool but when the targets are small it just is not that precise. If a man knows his instrument, he can pull some wild shit. But I recall seeing Crazy Canadian shot stories before. I think it might be a fake news meme for getting clicks. |
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Posted: 6/22/2017 12:29:10 AM EDT
[#16]
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How the hell do you even see a person at that distance? Even with a 40x optic, they would be grain of sand size. Eta, 3400, yeah, that's gonna be hard to see, I misread 2400. |
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Posted: 6/22/2017 12:30:39 AM EDT
[#17]
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Not you again... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Dang, those Canadians REALLY like killing bad guys from super long range. Until we hear what the setup was this is going in the "most likely BS" file. 
Eta...well I'll be fuckin damned, I actually agree with him on something for once. Doesn't change my opinion though. |
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Posted: 6/22/2017 12:45:27 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOL. That has about 10% if the reach the Canucks claim from their 2 MOA Mac Tac .50s. I have shot with JSOC issued Mac Tac 50s and was less than impressed concerning accuracy. It's still .50 cal cool but when the targets are small it just is not that precise. |
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Posted: 6/22/2017 12:52:45 AM EDT
[#19]
Sweet! I wonder how much that TAC50 and scope cost?
What say yee? |
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Posted: 6/22/2017 12:55:43 AM EDT
[#20]
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Yeah, just making a joke that the sights would have to be like the blooper gin on the 50. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, just making a joke that the sights would have to be like the blooper gin on the 50. 
Same page and what not. Quoted:
Oh, it's him alright, mr fucking know it all.
Eta...well I'll be fuckin damned, I actually agree with him on something for once. Doesn't change my opinion though.
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Posted: 6/22/2017 1:22:55 AM EDT
[#21]
That seems like a comically long shot, and as stated most scopes have nowhere near that much elevation adjustment (unless he had a US Optics SN9, but most CF seem to use S&B)
If everything is as it seems, it could have been fragmentation or something hitting the guy. If he actually did hit the guy at 3.45K, that was a ton of luck. Canadian snipers are some of the best in the world. I've met Rob Furlong and chatted with him, and even his world-record shot was on the 3rd shot before he nailed the guy (First shot missed, second tagged the guys bag, third shot was lethal) And he also had a full crew of guys in the position and GPS co-ordinates to verify the claims; hence why he held the Guinness record for a while. |
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Posted: 6/22/2017 1:44:47 AM EDT
[#22]
Maybe Canadian snipers have some kind of special optic on some kind of adjustable Beowulf x mount that can hit all the right angles
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Posted: 6/22/2017 2:03:39 AM EDT
[#23]
Here's some quick and dirty ballistics data I ran.
I don't know what bullet was used, but it mentioned a TAC50, so I used the Barnes 647g 50BMG loading @ 3000fps which I'm sure is going to be comparable. 0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 3000.4 2.542 12931.3 0.000 0.0 *** 500 -50.8 -2.6 2.4 0.1 2320.0 1.966 7730.9 0.622 0.0 0.0 1000 -299.0 -7.6 11.2 0.3 1740.0 1.474 4349.0 1.439 0.0 0.0 1500 -901.3 -15.3 31.6 0.5 1298.4 1.100 2421.7 2.538 0.0 0.0 2000 -2125.0 -27.0 71.3 0.9 1058.0 0.896 1607.7 3.957 0.0 0.0 2500 -4279.6 -43.5 135.7 1.4 934.1 0.791 1253.4 5.625 0.0 0.0 3000 -7648.9 -64.8 229.7 1.9 848.3 0.719 1033.7 7.498 0.0 0.0 3500 -12527.3 -90.9 359.5 2.6 782.1 0.663 878.7 9.577 0.0 0.0 So at 3500 yards, the total drop is 12527 inches and the adjustment for the shot would need to be 90.9MIL. Is there an optic setup that can run 90 MILS in total adjustment even when adding a 30MOA rail, maxing out the turret and then holding as much as you can in the reticle? Other thing to consider is that they were in a higher shooting spot; cosine angle comes into play here too which depending on the angle can make the shot distance much shorter. ETA - Ran it at 120 degrees, 4400 feet as mentioned above. Now we're down to 90.9 MIL. |
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Posted: 6/22/2017 2:11:26 AM EDT
[#24]
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Word. American or not, that's badass and deserves respect. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Hell of a shot. American or not, that's badass and deserves respect. |
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Posted: 6/22/2017 2:11:55 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
 Quote HistoryQuoted:
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But my book on sharpshooting and sniping doesn't mention him. |
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Posted: 6/22/2017 2:15:51 AM EDT
[#26]
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I think MrBurns is right on, with this. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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There is not enough elevation in conventional optic to come close to dialing in 3450 meters of 50 cal drop. Until we hear what the setup was this is going in the "most likely BS" file. 
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Posted: 6/22/2017 2:17:30 AM EDT
[#27]
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I just don't know why you'd engage a target at 3400 meters WITH A RIFLE. Where the miss is extemely likely. Versus Arty that can fuck up the entire group of them with a couple rounds of 155. Or a 500 lbs bomb. Its like trying to kill an ant with a tooth pick. When you could use a flame thrower on the whole colony. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Never mind fucking up the range by less than 1% would result in a miss by feet. assuming you got the wind to within 1 MPH over the entire course of the shot, got the elevation delta perfect, with perfect barometric pressure and humidity to with 3%. plus the inherent inaccuracies of the round combination. I have no doubt they shot at someone at that range. But thats about it. Its like trying to kill an ant with a tooth pick. When you could use a flame thrower on the whole colony. |
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Posted: 6/22/2017 2:20:11 AM EDT
[#28]
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Really??! You have to be great to be issued a McMillian Tac-50 and luck had no part in that shot. Read that slow and carefully. The key word is issued. Any wannabee operator can buy a McMillian rifle but there is only a miniscule group of people who can become one with their weapon and make those kinds of shots. The only luck I see is that sniper is on our side. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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He might not even be a great shooter. At that distance, there is at least as much luck as skill. |
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Posted: 6/22/2017 2:22:51 AM EDT
[#29]
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Cool beans. CROWS with laser guided projectiles would be fucking sweet. Just put a belt in the air and put the laser where you want them...fun stuff. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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There is actually laser guided .50 projectile. Sandia National Labs has been working on it. |
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Posted: 6/22/2017 2:37:29 AM EDT
[#30]
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Really??! You have to be great to be issued a McMillian Tac-50 and luck had no part in that shot. Read that slow and carefully. The key word is issued. Any wannabee operator can buy a McMillian rifle but there is only a miniscule group of people who can become one with their weapon and make those kinds of shots. The only luck I see is that sniper is on our side. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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He might not even be a great shooter. At that distance, there is at least as much luck as skill. 
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Posted: 6/22/2017 2:42:16 AM EDT
[#31]
For real, or is this another story where the only source is a tabloid?
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Posted: 6/22/2017 2:59:10 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here's some quick and dirty ballistics data I ran. I don't know what bullet was used, but it mentioned a TAC50, so I used the Barnes 647g 50BMG loading @ 3000fps which I'm sure is going to be comparable. 0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 3000.4 2.542 12931.3 0.000 0.0 *** 500 -50.8 -2.6 2.4 0.1 2320.0 1.966 7730.9 0.622 0.0 0.0 1000 -299.0 -7.6 11.2 0.3 1740.0 1.474 4349.0 1.439 0.0 0.0 1500 -901.3 -15.3 31.6 0.5 1298.4 1.100 2421.7 2.538 0.0 0.0 2000 -2125.0 -27.0 71.3 0.9 1058.0 0.896 1607.7 3.957 0.0 0.0 2500 -4279.6 -43.5 135.7 1.4 934.1 0.791 1253.4 5.625 0.0 0.0 3000 -7648.9 -64.8 229.7 1.9 848.3 0.719 1033.7 7.498 0.0 0.0 3500 -12527.3 -90.9 359.5 2.6 782.1 0.663 878.7 9.577 0.0 0.0 So at 3500 yards, the total drop is 12527 inches and the adjustment for the shot would need to be 90.9MIL. Is there an optic setup that can run 90 MILS in total adjustment even when adding a 30MOA rail, maxing out the turret and then holding as much as you can in the reticle? Other thing to consider is that they were in a higher shooting spot; cosine angle comes into play here too which depending on the angle can make the shot distance much shorter. ETA - Ran it at 120 degrees, 4400 feet as mentioned above. Now we're down to 90.9 MIL. Nah, that shot was not possible unless they are using some sort secret squirrel gel propellant and a saboted fin stabilized projectile moving north of 5000FPS. Like a 2016 version of the Steyr IWS 2000 |
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Posted: 6/22/2017 3:01:09 AM EDT
[#33]
I heard he used a Larue barrel, so it must be legit.
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Posted: 6/22/2017 3:04:48 AM EDT
[#34]
For a long time it was a Canadian that held the world record. Think it was smashed by a Brit recently. Canada had to retake that crown again I take it.
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Posted: 6/22/2017 3:15:45 AM EDT
[#35]
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He might not even be a great shooter. At that distance, there is at least as much luck as skill. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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But my book on sharpshooting and sniping doesn't mention him. |
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Posted: 6/22/2017 3:22:47 AM EDT
[#36]
The kill was independently verified by video camera and other data, The Globe and Mail has learned.
“Hard data on this. It isn’t an opinion. It isn’t an approximation. There is a second location with eyes on with all the right equipment to capture exactly what the shot was,” another military source said. |
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Posted: 6/22/2017 3:24:07 AM EDT
[#37]
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He might not even be a great shooter. At that distance, there is at least as much luck as skill. Yet many will hyperventilate over the issue. |
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Posted: 6/22/2017 4:05:39 AM EDT
[#38]
Truth of the shot aside, how would they even confirm that kill?
Edit: I see it was kind of answered above, but wouldn't that mean they had someone in a position closer to the target? Makes no sense... |
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Posted: 6/22/2017 5:08:04 AM EDT
[#39]
As many others have mentioned, a shot at that range has more issues than things that work in its favor.
Mirage Scope adjustment Round accuracy Rifle Accuracy Shooter Accuracy Atmospherics Trajectory calculation Flight time Each of those issues is a mountain that needs to be climbed to land a shot at this range. Can it be done? Sure. Bryan Litz has been putting in a whole lot of effort in recent years researching being accurate at these distances. One of the members in this thread already mentioned his "King of 2 Miles" competition. However, he and the other competitors have done everything they possibly can to deal with those issues regardless of the practicality of it up to and including INVENTING THEIR OWN CALIBER. This is the key difference. As many of you know, those in the military aren't going out to the field with ammo they loaded themselves that was tuned to their rifle, had the bullet pointed and sorted, powder weighed to within 1 kernel on a lab scale, sorted the brass both based on weight as well as H2O capacity, etc. They're going out there with the best issued ammo they can grab, which just isn't the same. So assuming the shot was actually made, what happened? My guess is they either got REALLY lucky (maybe 1 in 100. If anyone has the WEZ software from Bryan Litz, they can calculate the probability better) or that they took a bunch of shots to increase the odds in their favor (and still got lucky). Great shot, but I can guarantee it wasn't something repeatable. Not being repeatable means it relied on luck. |
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Posted: 6/22/2017 5:10:54 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is not enough elevation in conventional optic to come close to dialing in 3450 meters of 50 cal drop. Until we hear what the setup was this is going in the "most likely BS" file. |
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Posted: 6/22/2017 5:54:38 AM EDT
[#41]
I like the way they say "the bullet took less than 10 seconds to get there...".
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Posted: 6/22/2017 6:05:07 AM EDT
[#42]
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spotter did the math?
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Posted: 6/22/2017 6:05:07 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
spotter did the math?
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Posted: 6/22/2017 6:10:26 AM EDT
[#44]
It's amazing what distance this guy made that shot at. 50 cal. still getting the job done.
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Posted: 6/22/2017 6:40:12 AM EDT
[#45]
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Did I say anything negative about Canadians? My post was about fake news stories. It seems like once or twice a year there is story about some super long shot against some enemy about to commit some horrific act. Some of those stories are fake. I googled this story and there is only one source (The Globe and mail). I hope it really happened but i'd like to see if it actually happened first. BTW Robert Furlong is a beast. This one does seem far fetched but maybe they're using some kind of technology we don't know about. Maybe there is a reason they are using a .50 BMG instead of the .338 Lapua that should have replaced it. |
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Posted: 6/22/2017 7:03:03 AM EDT
[#46]
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All that SEAL hate is gonna burn you up, kid. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It briefs well. And Chris Kyle had 2000 confirmed kills, confirmed by himself. they were officially in his DD214 that was later redacted due to OPSEC. |
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Posted: 6/22/2017 7:08:19 AM EDT
[#47]
http://www.guns.com/2013/07/17/trackingpoint-puts-face-on-next-smart-scoped-rifle-mcmillan-50-3100-yard-effective-range/
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Posted: 6/22/2017 7:13:08 AM EDT
[#48]
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Unnamed sources do they work for Washington post |
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Posted: 6/22/2017 7:14:23 AM EDT
[#49]
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Shooters calc says a 750gr AMAX would need almost 200 MOA in elevation. You got a point. |
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Posted: 6/22/2017 7:14:40 AM EDT
[#50]
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I'm sure he was pretty skilled. So has every shot I have ever taken.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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He might not even be a great shooter. At that distance, there is at least as much luck as skill. "It took under 10 seconds to hit the target." |
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