[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Cartel Gunman Shootout in Arizona (Page 3 of 6)
|
Quoted: Why in the hell are people still buying sigs? A buddy of mine had the Sig 556 Patrol in 16" version. It was trash. iirc he sent it back to Sig three times and it still wouldn't run a whole mag without a malfunction. From watching the video those guys worked the malfunctions quickly and even transitioned to the pistol. So I'm assuming they have all been through a VCQB course of some type where they induce malfunctions. And in a VCQB course you are going to shoot 1000+ rounds. I'm going to assume they either didn't have malfunctions or they are ignoring the problem like a lot of admins are doing with the pistols. <---owned several P226 and one P220 loved them worked 100% |
|
Edge’s defense attorney said he was involved in the whole ordeal to help a friend, but unsure what they were doing. The defense added he didn’t understand the Spanish interactions with Calderon and the victim. "I need your help, I can't tell you what it is, you can never ask me about it later, and we're gonna hurt some people." LOL |
|
Quoted: I sold all of my sigs. No Sig apologetic here. I think this probably 300blk, subs and suppressor related Most 5.56 MCX I’ve seen have been solid. If an ammo issue, shame on them for not training with said ammo. Otherwise, time to look for another platform that works. I’d still take a Swiss made 551. |
|
Quoted: I didn’t see anything about the cartel, just the armed robbery mentioned earlier. The cartel does commit a lot of crime in GD though. Where would a random mexican get a full auto UMP from without cartel ties? If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and gets into shootouts with highly trained tac teams using full auto subguns on the border of that third world shithole; it's probably a cartel duck. |
|
Quoted: Where would a random mexican get a full auto UMP from without cartel ties? If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and gets into shootouts with highly trained tac teams using full auto subguns on the border of that third world shithole; it's probably a cartel duck. It’s possible. I’m just saying that there isn’t a source or story saying that it’s tied to the cartel. I’ve seen too many thread titles that don’t match the story on this forum. |
|
Quoted: Wow, crazy vid. I am glad they went with the anchoring shots. Was the one a malfunction or had he already shot to empty when he went to the pistol? Also, could have been a "quicker" outcome if they weren't running subs against the vest. Most definitely a malfunction. Sounds like he tries the old tap rack bang, doesn’t work and then be throws that mag out with force and you can see multiple rounds fly out of the mag well when he does. |
|
Quoted: Not super authentic, but good enough. Their sonoran dogs are probably the best you can get in Arizona at a sit down mexican themed restaurant that caters to typical trump voting Americans. Food trucks, converted busses, or any place in Tucson would be the best sonoran dog experience though. A moreno's mexican grill sonoran dog and their not for free anymore chips/salsa  :https://i.imgur.com/aCZvsjD.jpg @80085 I see you also are a refined gentlemen yourself with that Tac Kwaiken 
|
|
Quoted: "You should move to a small town where the rule of law still exists. You will not survive here. You are not a wolf......And this is the land of wolves now." . Consider yourself a sheepdog. A dog doesn’t stand a chance against a wolf. The wolf doesn’t have anything to lose and the thought of losing his flock is a detriment to the dog. |
|
Quoted: IMO, those guys seemed to be very well trained. So I believe it to be some type of equipment issue. Quoted: Quoted: That was nuts! Jams galore... SIG is not looking good right now. Cheap mags? Dirty guns? Poor training? Or just SIG doing user testing? IMO, those guys seemed to be very well trained. So I believe it to be some type of equipment issue. The guys that I mentioned earlier that had the suppressed MCX's were big city SWAT guys and firearms instructors. Didn't think he had to clean it as much since it is a piston gun. Well trained doesn't equal smart. |
|
Quoted: And they don't like Detective 4 much, he was on the wrong side of the circular firing squad Part of the pinch aspect. Totally normal to have a guy there and there are specific "get the heck out of there" tactics to use. And it was Det 4 that ran to the hostage and pulled him out of the area. |
|
Quoted: Why in the hell are people still buying sigs? I like the original “P” series, still have my P220, it’s a hammer. I used a shorty 516 with a Surefire Socom suppressor for years. I treated it like the dirty hoochie that it was, I ran it in the heat, cold, rain, whatever. No issues. It was a piston rifle and therefore heavy as balls, that’s my only criticism. |
|
Quoted: Better let the unit know they didn't select "real rifles". https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/44195/IMG_3064_jpeg-3000778.JPG Muh appeal to authoritah! Respect their authoritah! |
|
Quoted: How much do yall wanna bet that gun was sold to the cartel direct from HK? Cartels brag this happens... Vice and Axios tried to debunk this shit like 10 years ago or something....trying to "prove" how cartels get their guns at american gun shows.....admitted at end they were surprised they get them direct from Germany and HK factory.... but phew, thank the gods HK won't sell MP7 to us plebs.... |
|
Quoted: The real cartels don't do much work this side of the border. Some of their lower level goons might, but those are independent contractors. The real cartel members know that they don't want that type of attention. They don't want the US to really take an interest. agree -- its the first rule of 'organized crime' -- stay off the radar as much as possible does it bubble up ?? of course -- sometimes the underlings get out of line but the big money orgs / players do not want to get the kind of attention in the US that disrupts the money flow common sense really |
|
Quoted: weird how only Police have problems with sigs.... Us citizens and thousands of soldiers around the world seem to be able to use them just fine.... Quoted: Quoted: Another reason why not to buy any modern Sig products. weird how only Police have problems with sigs.... Us citizens and thousands of soldiers around the world seem to be able to use them just fine.... Attached File |
|
Quoted: Muh appeal to authoritah! Respect their authoritah! Quoted: Quoted: Better let the unit know they didn't select "real rifles". https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/44195/IMG_3064_jpeg-3000778.JPG Muh appeal to authoritah! Respect their authoritah! LOL Dude, you're a meme here. But please continue providing entertainment. |
|
So, what the hell was going on with this kidnapping? The surviving kidnapper says he didn't comprende nothing that the dead guy said to the victim because it was all in Spanish? And that he was "duped" into helping out a "family friend"? Sounds like the surviving kindnapper and the dead guy were suspected of robberies or home invasions earlier in the week or something? What in hell? |
|
Quoted: The real cartels don't do much work this side of the border. Some of their lower level goons might, but those are independent contractors. The real cartel members know that they don't want that type of attention. They don't want the US to really take an interest. This. I have lived less than an hour from the southern border for my entire life. Cartels have people on this side do their work for them for a little bit and then pull them back to Mexico. They are not usually brazen on this side. They also force people to do their dirty work on this side with threats against, usually their children. There are people who have affiliations with the cartels on this side, but they and their families are disposable. What was happening in this video was you good ol fashion gang stuff. Cartels have gangs do a lot of their dirty work, but the gang members and their families are disposable as well. Once you are in debt to the cartel they own you for life. That includes gang members. They will just have other gang members kill them if needed. That is how it works, especially if gang members have any family members in Mexico. |
|
Quoted: Cartels brag this happens... Vice and Axios tried to debunk this shit like 10 years ago or something....trying to "prove" how cartels get their guns at american gun shows.....admitted at end they were surprised they get them direct from Germany and HK factory.... but phew, thank the gods HK won't sell MP7 to us plebs.... Quoted: Cartels brag this happens... Vice and Axios tried to debunk this shit like 10 years ago or something....trying to "prove" how cartels get their guns at american gun shows.....admitted at end they were surprised they get them direct from Germany and HK factory.... but phew, thank the gods HK won't sell MP7 to us plebs.... Vice is a credible source for gun news these days? It’s well established that cartels do get a lot of guns by buying them in the US, remember Holder’s Fast and Furious? I’ve seen a lot of pics of seizures from cartels and it’s generally a majority of ARs and AKs, with a hodgepodge of other guns. I can’t recall seeing a ton of HKs. Closest thing I can find open source is HK got jammed up for violating German law by selling guns to “government” buyers in Mexico. You can argue that the cartel and Mexican gov’t are in bed together, but I still think it’s a stretch to claim that HK was directly selling to the cartels, and cartels get most of their guns directly from HK. https://www.npr.org/2019/02/21/696561255/heckler-koch-fined-4-2-million-over-assault-rifle-sales-in-mexico A Stuttgart court ruled that Heckler & Koch broke Germany's War Weapons Control Act by sending more than 4,000 G36 assault rifles, ammunition and other weapons to a central government buyer in Mexico — where they were then distributed to areas seen as being at high risk for violence and human rights violations. At the time of the sales, German arms-makers were barred from exporting guns to Mexico's violence-plagued states. But Global Net reported that the powerful H&K rifles still found their way to "corrupt police officers" in Chihuahua, Chiapas, Guerrero and Jalisco. |
|
Quoted: GD watches Sicario once, any hispanic crime is automatically labeled cartel related.  It's the new GD boogyman.There are two sides to that coin. Not every violent crime committed in a border state is cartel related, but I think it's naive to think that the cartels don’t operate in the US because they’re scared of effecting their bottom line. Honestly, what are we going to do to them? Tighten up border security? Lol. Kidnapping with a legit full auto (not just an Glock with a switch) and shootout with the cops doesn’t strike me as common hood rat crime. |
|
Quoted: Vice is a credible source for gun news these days? It’s well established that cartels do get a lot of guns by buying them in the US, remember Holder’s Fast and Furious? I’ve seen a lot of pics of seizures from cartels and it’s generally a majority of ARs and AKs, with a hodgepodge of other guns. I can’t recall seeing a ton of HKs. Closest thing I can find open source is HK got jammed up for violating German law by selling guns to “government” buyers in Mexico. You can argue that the cartel and Mexican gov’t are in bed together, but I still think it’s a stretch to claim that HK was directly selling to the cartels, and cartels get most of their guns directly from HK. https://www.npr.org/2019/02/21/696561255/heckler-koch-fined-4-2-million-over-assault-rifle-sales-in-mexico Quoted: Quoted: Cartels brag this happens... Vice and Axios tried to debunk this shit like 10 years ago or something....trying to "prove" how cartels get their guns at american gun shows.....admitted at end they were surprised they get them direct from Germany and HK factory.... but phew, thank the gods HK won't sell MP7 to us plebs.... Vice is a credible source for gun news these days? It’s well established that cartels do get a lot of guns by buying them in the US, remember Holder’s Fast and Furious? I’ve seen a lot of pics of seizures from cartels and it’s generally a majority of ARs and AKs, with a hodgepodge of other guns. I can’t recall seeing a ton of HKs. Closest thing I can find open source is HK got jammed up for violating German law by selling guns to “government” buyers in Mexico. You can argue that the cartel and Mexican gov’t are in bed together, but I still think it’s a stretch to claim that HK was directly selling to the cartels, and cartels get most of their guns directly from HK. https://www.npr.org/2019/02/21/696561255/heckler-koch-fined-4-2-million-over-assault-rifle-sales-in-mexico A Stuttgart court ruled that Heckler & Koch broke Germany's War Weapons Control Act by sending more than 4,000 G36 assault rifles, ammunition and other weapons to a central government buyer in Mexico — where they were then distributed to areas seen as being at high risk for violence and human rights violations. At the time of the sales, German arms-makers were barred from exporting guns to Mexico's violence-plagued states. But Global Net reported that the powerful H&K rifles still found their way to "corrupt police officers" in Chihuahua, Chiapas, Guerrero and Jalisco. This, of all the weapons seizures that the MX police display, I don't think I've ever seen an HK, and if I have but forgotten about it, then it's rare. |
|
Quoted: The guys that I mentioned earlier that had the suppressed MCX's were big city SWAT guys and firearms instructors. Didn't think he had to clean it as much since it is a piston gun. Well trained doesn't equal smart. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: That was nuts! Jams galore... SIG is not looking good right now. Cheap mags? Dirty guns? Poor training? Or just SIG doing user testing? IMO, those guys seemed to be very well trained. So I believe it to be some type of equipment issue. The guys that I mentioned earlier that had the suppressed MCX's were big city SWAT guys and firearms instructors. Didn't think he had to clean it as much since it is a piston gun. Well trained doesn't equal smart. Well being a SWAT guy does not always mean they are gun guys. With that said, I run an LWRC piston gun and with a suppressor it needs a cleaning around 400 rds. |
|
Quoted: There are two sides to that coin. Not every violent crime committed in a border state is cartel related, but I think it's naive to think that the cartels don’t operate in the US because they’re scared of effecting their bottom line. Honestly, what are we going to do to them? Tighten up border security? Lol. Kidnapping with a legit full auto (not just an Glock with a switch) and shootout with the cops doesn’t strike me as common hood rat crime. Quoted: Quoted: GD watches Sicario once, any hispanic crime is automatically labeled cartel related. It's the new GD boogyman.There are two sides to that coin. Not every violent crime committed in a border state is cartel related, but I think it's naive to think that the cartels don’t operate in the US because they’re scared of effecting their bottom line. Honestly, what are we going to do to them? Tighten up border security? Lol. Kidnapping with a legit full auto (not just an Glock with a switch) and shootout with the cops doesn’t strike me as common hood rat crime. Oh no doubt they operate here, I'm merely pointing out that any hispanic crime is automatically assumed to be cartel related here in GD. Why not wait to get more info or just post what the news articles are saying, in order to present an honest story, instead of sensationalizing it? Is this cartel related? Who knows, the authorities haven't stated. The dudes are tied to robberies, so who knows where they got the UMP, many possibilities. |
|
Quoted: This, of all the weapons seizures that the MX police display, I don't think I've ever seen an HK, and if I have but forgotten about it, then it's rare. |
|
Quoted: Well being a SWAT guy does not always mean they are gun guys. With that said, I run an LWRC piston gun and with a suppressor it needs a cleaning around 400 rds. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: That was nuts! Jams galore... SIG is not looking good right now. Cheap mags? Dirty guns? Poor training? Or just SIG doing user testing? IMO, those guys seemed to be very well trained. So I believe it to be some type of equipment issue. The guys that I mentioned earlier that had the suppressed MCX's were big city SWAT guys and firearms instructors. Didn't think he had to clean it as much since it is a piston gun. Well trained doesn't equal smart. Well being a SWAT guy does not always mean they are gun guys. With that said, I run an LWRC piston gun and with a suppressor it needs a cleaning around 400 rds. I know. My point being is all of the guys in this thread saying the MCX sucks because it had malfunctions in this video. We have zero idea on why those malfunctions happened. Could be many reasons, and 95% of the time it is user induced. Maybe it is people's lack of experience here but if I swore off any gun that has had malfunctions in any moment, I wouldn't have any. Cops are generally the worst at maintaining their weapons. Nothing like cleaning a grown man's G17 and Colt M4 real quick so that we can conduct our training without having a stoppage every magazine. Lazy fucks. |