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Posted: 7/21/2015 10:48:02 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was thinking many of these commercial flights are used to making pretty huge nose up takeoffs for noise abatement at crowded runways. Not sure of this airlines departure profiles but seems to me they could have shallowed the nose up attitude for this specific cargo to lessen the gravity effect after rotation. I didn't read the report but does it give a time they suspect the load shifted? Shortly after rotation? Several seconds later? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If some of those straps had remained intact for the nose up part of that "flight", there is no guarantee they would have held for any nose down type flight and they could have "zippered", just as easily sending an MRAP or two right through the cockpit. Keep the descent rate low and the forces that could cause a forward movement can be greatly minimized. I was thinking many of these commercial flights are used to making pretty huge nose up takeoffs for noise abatement at crowded runways. Not sure of this airlines departure profiles but seems to me they could have shallowed the nose up attitude for this specific cargo to lessen the gravity effect after rotation. I didn't read the report but does it give a time they suspect the load shifted? Shortly after rotation? Several seconds later? That's always bothered me regarding airline procedures. They're trading speed for altitude. Both are good. But that very steep pitch always seems to be a catastrophe waiting to happen. I realize that jet aircraft are overpowered for the most part (and nearly always have at least one "spare" engine), but I sure as hell didn't do maximum performance climbs in piston singles every single time. I much preferred to work-up a nice cushion of speed while still over the runway. I know that altitude is everything on takeoff, but the prospect of being anywhere near stalling speed at such steep climb-outs (even if only for a few seconds) just never sat well with me. The whole noise abatement thing has always bugged me. Airport is located on the edge of, or outside of town. Urban sprawl takes over and the next thing you know, air operations have to tiptoe around the neighborhood like a teenager sneaking back into the house late at night. In short... large communities of whiny people suck! Arf withwithstanding... 
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Posted: 7/21/2015 10:50:48 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was thinking many of these commercial flights are used to making pretty huge nose up takeoffs for noise abatement at crowded runways. Not sure of this airlines departure profiles but seems to me they could have shallowed the nose up attitude for this specific cargo to lessen the gravity effect after rotation. I didn't read the report but does it give a time they suspect the load shifted? Shortly after rotation? Several seconds later? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If some of those straps had remained intact for the nose up part of that "flight", there is no guarantee they would have held for any nose down type flight and they could have "zippered", just as easily sending an MRAP or two right through the cockpit. Keep the descent rate low and the forces that could cause a forward movement can be greatly minimized. I was thinking many of these commercial flights are used to making pretty huge nose up takeoffs for noise abatement at crowded runways. Not sure of this airlines departure profiles but seems to me they could have shallowed the nose up attitude for this specific cargo to lessen the gravity effect after rotation. I didn't read the report but does it give a time they suspect the load shifted? Shortly after rotation? Several seconds later? The voice transcript stops just after v1, so I'm assuming that the issue started just after rotation. They called v1, the computer called it directly after, then gear up, then transcript stops. |
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Posted: 7/21/2015 11:09:26 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Voice transcript is eerie. Guys talking about being dead from lack of sleep I gathered, then one guy says "I'm dead right now." Little did he know how right he was. I think one of the guys (co-pilot?) also said after the loaded shifted the first time "I wish we could put a camera back there to watch the load", and the load master said something like "You would shit your pants if you saw it". They also talked about a maximum take-off with an added 25kts and maximum pull out if I'm not mistaken. Yea those guys were tired and beat. Some of the guys already climbed in the bunk and went to sleep as they were getting ready to take-off. One even joked about doing a nose forward movement of the plane to put him through the roof and they laughed. |
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Posted: 7/21/2015 11:30:17 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think one of the guys (co-pilot?) also said after the loaded shifted the first time "I wish we could put a camera back there to watch the load", and the load master said something like "You would shit your pants if you saw it". They also talked about a maximum take-off with an added 25kts and maximum pull out if I'm not mistaken. Yea those guys were tired and beat. Some of the guys already climbed in the bunk and went to sleep as they were getting ready to take-off. One even joked about doing a nose forward movement of the plane to put him through the roof and they laughed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Voice transcript is eerie. Guys talking about being dead from lack of sleep I gathered, then one guy says "I'm dead right now." Little did he know how right he was. I think one of the guys (co-pilot?) also said after the loaded shifted the first time "I wish we could put a camera back there to watch the load", and the load master said something like "You would shit your pants if you saw it". They also talked about a maximum take-off with an added 25kts and maximum pull out if I'm not mistaken. Yea those guys were tired and beat. Some of the guys already climbed in the bunk and went to sleep as they were getting ready to take-off. One even joked about doing a nose forward movement of the plane to put him through the roof and they laughed. Cripes... complacency and aviation make BAD partners. 
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Posted: 7/21/2015 12:06:22 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The "training" he got for Loadmaster is pathetic. 65 hours. That's just ridiculous. And they aren't really considered aircrew, but aren't part of maintenance either. |
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Posted: 7/21/2015 12:42:42 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pg #28 and on shows how the MRAPS were loaded. http://dms.ntsb.gov/public/57000-57499/57043/567126.pdf Reading that report made me wonder if the Three Stooges were reincarnated as Loadmasters for National. Jesus Christ...the guesswork and lack of training/knowledge is borderline criminal. |
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