User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 2:17:52 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think Brian Williams reported that story. He was in a "bird" that was shot down by an RPG. Very brave dude. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 2:18:24 PM EDT
[#2]
This is all I will say. Not because I'm a Delta Squirrel Brah operator, because it's second hand and I have no other info.
I worked in a hospital on the North Shore of the lake during/after Katrina. A guy I work with was a SEAL. He stopped on the side of the interstate to talk to a team and ended up spending the evening with them bullshitting and whatnot. Some of the thugs down there were being culled down around the dome. Not a thing was reported, which is OK with me. I don't remember the whole story. If I run into him again I'll ask. At the time, we were under the impression that plenty of killing was going on, so I'm sure it didn't register with me as anything out of the ordinary. I resupplied a medic who was attached to some kind of civilian team that was getting in a bit of shit. This guy didn't normally roll with any kind of tac team and he really didn't care for it. He said there was quite a bit of gun play. My favorite, and I don't know anything about it, was some gangs loaded up in watercraft and went in breaking into gun stores/banks/etc. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 2:20:19 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Reporters? Yeah, they are always 100% accurate. Whatever Brian Williams said must be true. I question stories that come out after someone died, that we can't confirm they actually said. Specially when those stories are then used to claim the dead person spun tall tails. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: lol So if you tell a reporter it happened (and your SEAL buddies), you didn't actually confirm it? Gotcha. Reporters? Yeah, they are always 100% accurate. Whatever Brian Williams said must be true. I question stories that come out after someone died, that we can't confirm they actually said. Specially when those stories are then used to claim the dead person spun tall tails. When asked if Kyle has ever told the story to her, his own wife said "I’ve been sticking to what he decided to share publicly and only share those things.” That is an odd way to word things if your husband never told you about the story privately. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 2:27:14 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
these Kyle threads have taught me this: When hearsay helps Kyle, we should believe it.When hearsay makes Kyle look like a liar, we should not believe it. I think Kyle was a hero who had feet of clay. The problem is most people don't want heroes with feet of clay, so they use the system above to evaluate the stories that have come out about him. OTOH, people like to tear down other people for some reason. Perhaps it makes them feel good about themselves. Regardless, I don't think hearsay is enough to condemn a man, IMHO. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 2:29:25 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When asked if Kyle has ever told the story to her, his own wife said "I’ve been sticking to what he decided to share publicly and only share those things.” That is an odd way to word things if your husband never told you about the story privately. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
lol So if you tell a reporter it happened (and your SEAL buddies), you didn't actually confirm it? Gotcha. Reporters? Yeah, they are always 100% accurate. Whatever Brian Williams said must be true. I question stories that come out after someone died, that we can't confirm they actually said. Specially when those stories are then used to claim the dead person spun tall tails. When asked if Kyle has ever told the story to her, his own wife said "I’ve been sticking to what he decided to share publicly and only share those things.” That is an odd way to word things if your husband never told you about the story privately. Given all of the fuss with the recent lawsuit, I'd suggest that this is probably the answer her lawyers have told her to say to anything controversial about Kyle. Although it may seem odd to one not involved in a lawsuit, it really isn't proof of anything, one way or another, which is what it is supposed to be. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 2:34:35 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
these Kyle threads have taught me this: When hearsay helps Kyle, we should believe it. When hearsay makes Kyle look like a liar, we should not believe it. .... The same is true for the other side of the equation. Josh is a perfect example of that from his posts in other threads. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 2:36:49 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
these Kyle threads have taught me this: When hearsay helps Kyle, we should believe it.When hearsay makes Kyle look like a liar, we should not believe it. I think Kyle was a hero who had feet of clay. The problem is most people don't want heroes with feet of clay, so they use the system above to evaluate the stories that have come out about him. I think someone took the recent news of his death and used his name to spin up his own character not expecting folks to call bullshit on his claims. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 2:41:28 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OTOH, people like to tear down other people for some reason. Perhaps it makes them feel good about themselves. Regardless, I don't think hearsay is enough to condemn a man, IMHO. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: these Kyle threads have taught me this: When hearsay helps Kyle, we should believe it.When hearsay makes Kyle look like a liar, we should not believe it. I think Kyle was a hero who had feet of clay. The problem is most people don't want heroes with feet of clay, so they use the system above to evaluate the stories that have come out about him. OTOH, people like to tear down other people for some reason. Perhaps it makes them feel good about themselves. Regardless, I don't think hearsay is enough to condemn a man, IMHO. To me, admitting that people have faults isn't condemning them. The number of military men who tell tall tales is pretty high in my experience. Go to any VFW and buy a few rounds and you'll see what I mean. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 2:43:02 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
these Kyle threads have taught me this: When hearsay helps Kyle, we should believe it.When hearsay makes Kyle look like a liar, we should not believe it. I think Kyle was a hero who had feet of clay. The problem is most people don't want heroes with feet of clay, so they use the system above to evaluate the stories that have come out about him. The problem is using unverified and likely unverifiable stories to undermine someone's credability, and create fake "facts" that indicate someone was a lier. I don't hero worship Kyle. I respect him as a sniper and SEAL. Although I suspect his claimed kill count is inflated (along with most other snipers, frankly, as well as fighter pilots, etc), and I also think SEALs talk too much. I do wish his family well, and see no reason to pile on a dead man whan all we have to go on is hearsay. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 2:44:18 PM EDT
[#10]
One thing I was wondering about from the book was when he mentioned he was carrying concealed in CA. It's been some time since I read the book so I don't recall every single detail, but I don't think he mentioned anything about having a CCW. Are Seals allowed to CC pretty much anywhere?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 2:44:59 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To me, admitting that people have faults isn't condemning them. The number of military men who tell tall tales is pretty high in my experience. Go to any VFW and buy a few rounds and you'll see what I mean. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
these Kyle threads have taught me this: When hearsay helps Kyle, we should believe it.When hearsay makes Kyle look like a liar, we should not believe it. I think Kyle was a hero who had feet of clay. The problem is most people don't want heroes with feet of clay, so they use the system above to evaluate the stories that have come out about him. OTOH, people like to tear down other people for some reason. Perhaps it makes them feel good about themselves. Regardless, I don't think hearsay is enough to condemn a man, IMHO. To me, admitting that people have faults isn't condemning them. The number of military men who tell tall tales is pretty high in my experience. Go to any VFW and buy a few rounds and you'll see what I mean. That may be true and we all have our faults, however, I'm just not going to put a specific fault on someone based on hearsay. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 2:45:34 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The same is true for the other side of the equation. Josh is a perfect example of that from his posts in other threads. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: these Kyle threads have taught me this: When hearsay helps Kyle, we should believe it. When hearsay makes Kyle look like a liar, we should not believe it. .... The same is true for the other side of the equation. Josh is a perfect example of that from his posts in other threads. I covered both sides of the equation. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 2:49:41 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To me, admitting that people have faults isn't condemning them. The number of military men who tell tall tales is pretty high in my experience. Go to any VFW and buy a few rounds and you'll see what I mean. Claiming faults based upon hearsay is another matter. Of course he had faults. We have no facts to support he was a serial liar, which is what some claim. I find any claim of many kills questionable, from Simo Häyhä to Carlos Hathcock and moreso involving Russian snipers. It is easy to convince yourself you made the shot when you didn't, and the tendency is to error on the side of "kills". However, framing Kyle as a liar because of what otherws wrote after his death is suspect. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 2:53:33 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One thing I was wondering about from the book was when he mentioned he was carrying concealed in CA. It's been some time since I read the book so I don't recall every single detail, but I don't think he mentioned anything about having a CCW. Are Seals allowed to CC pretty much anywhere? Pretty sure he would have to go through the regular process which was near impossible in San Diego or LA at the time. But sometimes people carry without a permit.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 2:54:59 PM EDT
[#15]
double tap
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 3:00:14 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Confirmed kills aren't up to just the shooter saying, yeah I got 3 today Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Has anyone other than Chris Kyle ever explained how the "kill count" was arrived at? Because it sounds a lot like Chris Kyle has a kill count because Chris Kyle said so. Not that he didn't kill some guys, but Hathcock had documentation and witnesses. Confirmed kills aren't up to just the shooter saying, yeah I got 3 today Yeah? Tell us more. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 3:13:03 PM EDT
[#17]
So, if I understand this thread correctly, Chris Kyle didn't lie about the gas station killings, Marcus Luttrell told that lie. There is trouble in SEAL town. BTW, there were threads on Arfcom about the gas station killings long before the current boil over.
Is this like when Luttrell told the NRA Convention he was late because he stopped to beat up some liberal protestors on his way? |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 3:26:50 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, if I understand this thread correctly, Chris Kyle didn't lie about the gas station killings, Marcus Luttrell told that lie. There is trouble in SEAL town. BTW, there were threads on Arfcom about the gas station killings long before the current boil over. Is this like when Luttrell told the NRA Convention he was late because he stopped to beat up some liberal protestors on his way? whoa bro, are you calling marcus luttrell a liar? |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 3:31:48 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
whoa bro, are you calling marcus luttrell a liar? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So, if I understand this thread correctly, Chris Kyle didn't lie about the gas station killings, Marcus Luttrell told that lie. There is trouble in SEAL town. BTW, there were threads on Arfcom about the gas station killings long before the current boil over. Is this like when Luttrell told the NRA Convention he was late because he stopped to beat up some liberal protestors on his way? whoa bro, are you calling marcus luttrell a liar? No man who single handedly faced down hundreds of taliban I am going to call a liar. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 3:36:01 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryNot a source. If it was an interview with Mooney (who has been grossly misquoted in other articles about Kyle by other people), then presumably there would be an audio or video recording of the interview...or at the very least a transcript. But none of these source documents have surfaced that I've seen. It's always "he told..." or "several people close to him...." |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 3:40:44 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, was Luttrell bullshitting about the car jacking stories ? It is an Internet toughguynavysealsniperrangerseal staple. Maybe. Or maybe Kyle was. Likely that if the story was true, it would be verifiable. But "likely" isn't enough for me to condemn anybody, especially based on 2nd or 3rd hand accounts. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 3:42:13 PM EDT
[#22]
So Kyle didn't say he was in New Orleans just that he had heard that some SEALs were used there working on leave for PMCs.
Zippidy do dah. Sounds like just normal sharing of gossip. As far as the car jacking goes if it came from some interview then I would expect there is a recording even if done by a print journalist. If no recording it's all bullshit, because we've had so many misreports and down right lies there is no way you can take anything like that to heart. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 3:49:00 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Neither story is in his book. I myself have no idea where the stories came from. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This should turn out derptastic from the Chris Kyle haters. With their "HE LIED ABOUT THESE THINGS SO NONE OF THE OTHER STUFF HE DID MATTERS!!!!!!!!" I'm also curious if this is in the book or just something made up by the haters. I know, I know, I should read the book myself, but I'm a bit slow Neither story is in his book. I myself have no idea where the stories came from. Brian Williams?  ETA - Crap, beat by a mile 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 3:54:45 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
these Kyle threads have taught me this: When hearsay helps Kyle, we should believe it.When hearsay makes Kyle look like a liar, we should not believe it. I think Kyle was a hero who had feet of clay. The problem is most people don't want heroes with feet of clay, so they use the system above to evaluate the stories that have come out about him. I think you're right that there's a lot of that going on. But I haven't seen any kind of tangible evidence that Kyle claimed these stories. Obviously the Ventura story is documented, and was largely false...so I have no issue imagining that he embellished or outright made up some stories. But without any actual evidence that he embellished or made up THESE stories, I'm going to default to skepticism, which should be the default position for ANY claim lacking tangible evidence. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 4:00:48 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The problem is using unverified and likely unverifiable stories to undermine someone's credability, and create fake "facts" that indicate someone was a lier. I don't hero worship Kyle. I respect him as a sniper and SEAL. Although I suspect his claimed kill count is inflated (along with most other snipers, frankly, as well as fighter pilots, etc), and I also think SEALs talk too much. I do wish his family well, and see no reason to pile on a dead man whan all we have to go on is hearsay. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
these Kyle threads have taught me this: When hearsay helps Kyle, we should believe it.When hearsay makes Kyle look like a liar, we should not believe it. I think Kyle was a hero who had feet of clay. The problem is most people don't want heroes with feet of clay, so they use the system above to evaluate the stories that have come out about him. The problem is using unverified and likely unverifiable stories to undermine someone's credability, and create fake "facts" that indicate someone was a lier. I don't hero worship Kyle. I respect him as a sniper and SEAL. Although I suspect his claimed kill count is inflated (along with most other snipers, frankly, as well as fighter pilots, etc), and I also think SEALs talk too much. I do wish his family well, and see no reason to pile on a dead man whan all we have to go on is hearsay. If by fighter pilots you're referring to air-to-air kills, these are documented by their HUD tapes. And while air to ground kills are more difficult to accurately keep track of, the strikes are also documented by their targeting pod footage and whatever BDA is done post-strike. The vast majority of air-to-ground weapons employment is on video, so the numbers probably aren't as inflated (operable word being "as") as one may presume. Unless the guy is 9 shots deep and bragging at the bar...then all bets are off. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 4:12:54 PM EDT
[#26]
If you're trying to compare him to Brian Williams or Obama, just stop.
1) He's not a "news" personality on a national TV show. 2) He's not a public official. The guy was a soldier. His job was to kill and demoralize the enemy. If you kill a bunch of bad guys and save the lives of a bunch of your own men, you're a badass motherfucker. Hence, the "Legend". The more of these stories that circulate and pass around, the more the guys on the other side shit their pants, don't shoot as straight or just decide not to fight. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 4:49:26 PM EDT
[#27]
These threads drive me fucking batshit. As big as Arfcom is, surely we have someone that was a Marine or Soldier in Ramadi or Blue Diamond or Shark who knew the man and yet they remain silent. I've got my own opinion I try to keep a lid on because some Chris Kyle ball-gagger who's never been anywhere or done anything will try and drag me into a pit thread.
I was in NOLA for Katrina as a contractor for FEMA. You know what blackwater did in New Orleans? They guarded the red cross and FEMA offices and distribution points. Whoopdee fuckin' do. There were SEAL and SWCC guys there. Most of them had come over from Stennis when the storm was coming believing that Belle Chasse would be a better place to get stuck than Gulfport. Most of the Active Duty from Belle Chasse had bugged out to NAS Atlanta and the base was mostly closed so most of them ended up doing jack squat. I talked to a couple at a famous bar on a random wednesday afternoon. Yeah, no shit. Drinking in the middle of the day in civvies because they had no job to do. A week after the storm it was business as usual in the Quarter. I was in Ramadi for 21 months in 2007-2008 as a contractor. The SEAL Det there wasn't very large and I had cause to work with them occasionally. They strutted around dressed like cowboys in shit-kickers and belt buckles with a big fish hook on the hat bill, Then they would put on their Marine FROG suits and go out and ruin someone's day. Usually a friendly iraqi that the 9th Marines S-2 had been working until the seal team decided to smack him around and break a bunch of shit in his house. Then a platoon commander gets the shit job of going out there and consoling him, giving him cash for all the shit the sailors broke and assuring him that the information he is passing is important and we are his friend. Most of you white-knighting a guy you will never meet just sound ridiculous. Anybody who claims they were forced to shoot a kid is full of shit. It's the oldest most cliched trope in the book. Anyone who says they were .mil and shot anyone in NOLA, Liar. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 4:59:32 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
These threads drive me fucking batshit. As big as Arfcom is, surely we have someone that was a Marine or Soldier in Ramadi or Blue Diamond or Shark who knew the man and yet they remain silent. I've got my own opinion I try to keep a lid on because some Chris Kyle ball-gagger who's never been anywhere or done anything will try and drag me into a pit thread. I was in NOLA for Katrina as a contractor for FEMA. You know what blackwater did in New Orleans? They guarded the red cross and FEMA offices and distribution points. Whoopdee fuckin' do. There were SEAL and SWCC guys there. Most of them had come over from Stennis when the storm was coming believing that Belle Chasse would be a better place to get stuck than Gulfport. Most of the Active Duty from Belle Chasse had bugged out to NAS Atlanta and the base was mostly closed so most of them ended up doing jack squat. I talked to a couple at a famous bar on a random wednesday afternoon. Yeah, no shit. Drinking in the middle of the day in civvies because they had no job to do. A week after the storm it was business as usual in the Quarter. I was in Ramadi for 21 months in 2007-2008 as a contractor. The SEAL Det there wasn't very large and I had cause to work with them occasionally. They strutted around dressed like cowboys in shit-kickers and belt buckles with a big fish hook on the hat bill, Then they would put on their Marine FROG suits and go out and ruin someone's day. Usually a friendly iraqi that the 9th Marines S-2 had been working until the seal team decided to smack him around and break a bunch of shit in his house. Then a platoon commander gets the shit job of going out there and consoling him, giving him cash for all the shit the sailors broke and assuring him that the information he is passing is important and we are his friend. Most of you white-knighting a guy you will never meet just sound ridiculous. Anybody who claims they were forced to shoot a kid is full of shit. It's the oldest most cliched trope in the book. Anyone who says they were .mil and shot anyone in NOLA, Liar.  yep
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 5:08:05 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
These threads drive me fucking batshit. As big as Arfcom is, surely we have someone that was a Marine or Soldier in Ramadi or Blue Diamond or Shark who knew the man and yet they remain silent. I've got my own opinion I try to keep a lid on because some Chris Kyle ball-gagger who's never been anywhere or done anything will try and drag me into a pit thread. I was in NOLA for Katrina as a contractor for FEMA. You know what blackwater did in New Orleans? They guarded the red cross and FEMA offices and distribution points. Whoopdee fuckin' do. There were SEAL and SWCC guys there. Most of them had come over from Stennis when the storm was coming believing that Belle Chasse would be a better place to get stuck than Gulfport. Most of the Active Duty from Belle Chasse had bugged out to NAS Atlanta and the base was mostly closed so most of them ended up doing jack squat. I talked to a couple at a famous bar on a random wednesday afternoon. Yeah, no shit. Drinking in the middle of the day in civvies because they had no job to do. A week after the storm it was business as usual in the Quarter. I was in Ramadi for 21 months in 2007-2008 as a contractor. The SEAL Det there wasn't very large and I had cause to work with them occasionally. They strutted around dressed like cowboys in shit-kickers and belt buckles with a big fish hook on the hat bill, Then they would put on their Marine FROG suits and go out and ruin someone's day. Usually a friendly iraqi that the 9th Marines S-2 had been working until the seal team decided to smack him around and break a bunch of shit in his house. Then a platoon commander gets the shit job of going out there and consoling him, giving him cash for all the shit the sailors broke and assuring him that the information he is passing is important and we are his friend. Most of you white-knighting a guy you will never meet just sound ridiculous. Anybody who claims they were forced to shoot a kid is full of shit. It's the oldest most cliched trope in the book. Anyone who says they were .mil and shot anyone in NOLA, Liar. That was the least of infractions in the book. Overall, the book was shit and need a complete re-write. Of course, if CK were still alive I wouldn't tell him that. 
Not sure what you did as a contractor as that is a very broad statement to make, but tell me about your time in Ramadi. I'm interested. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 5:10:22 PM EDT
[#30]
Bama, I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or being sarcastic. I don't mean to offend, I can only speak to my experience and what I saw but the way I remember it the real guys out in the shit were the cops from other areas that came in to help. Kansas City PD and NJ guard MPs each saved my bacon while Blackwater guys were checking my ID at the warehouse and making me sign in triplicate when I needed MREs for my guys.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 5:18:51 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
These threads drive me fucking batshit. As big as Arfcom is, surely we have someone that was a Marine or Soldier in Ramadi or Blue Diamond or Shark who knew the man and yet they remain silent. I've got my own opinion I try to keep a lid on because some Chris Kyle ball-gagger who's never been anywhere or done anything will try and drag me into a pit thread. I was in NOLA for Katrina as a contractor for FEMA. You know what blackwater did in New Orleans? They guarded the red cross and FEMA offices and distribution points. Whoopdee fuckin' do. There were SEAL and SWCC guys there. Most of them had come over from Stennis when the storm was coming believing that Belle Chasse would be a better place to get stuck than Gulfport. Most of the Active Duty from Belle Chasse had bugged out to NAS Atlanta and the base was mostly closed so most of them ended up doing jack squat. I talked to a couple at a famous bar on a random wednesday afternoon. Yeah, no shit. Drinking in the middle of the day in civvies because they had no job to do. A week after the storm it was business as usual in the Quarter. I was in Ramadi for 21 months in 2007-2008 as a contractor. The SEAL Det there wasn't very large and I had cause to work with them occasionally. They strutted around dressed like cowboys in shit-kickers and belt buckles with a big fish hook on the hat bill, Then they would put on their Marine FROG suits and go out and ruin someone's day. Usually a friendly iraqi that the 9th Marines S-2 had been working until the seal team decided to smack him around and break a bunch of shit in his house. Then a platoon commander gets the shit job of going out there and consoling him, giving him cash for all the shit the sailors broke and assuring him that the information he is passing is important and we are his friend. Most of you white-knighting a guy you will never meet just sound ridiculous. Anybody who claims they were forced to shoot a kid is full of shit. It's the oldest most cliched trope in the book. Anyone who says they were .mil and shot anyone in NOLA, Liar. If SEALs aren't awesome, then why do so many SEALs write books about how awesome SEALs are? Thats what I thought, you can't answer that one. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 5:24:43 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
These threads drive me fucking batshit. As big as Arfcom is, surely we have someone that was a Marine or Soldier in Ramadi or Blue Diamond or Shark who knew the man and yet they remain silent. I've got my own opinion I try to keep a lid on because some Chris Kyle ball-gagger who's never been anywhere or done anything will try and drag me into a pit thread. I was in NOLA for Katrina as a contractor for FEMA. You know what blackwater did in New Orleans? They guarded the red cross and FEMA offices and distribution points. Whoopdee fuckin' do. There were SEAL and SWCC guys there. Most of them had come over from Stennis when the storm was coming believing that Belle Chasse would be a better place to get stuck than Gulfport. Most of the Active Duty from Belle Chasse had bugged out to NAS Atlanta and the base was mostly closed so most of them ended up doing jack squat. I talked to a couple at a famous bar on a random wednesday afternoon. Yeah, no shit. Drinking in the middle of the day in civvies because they had no job to do. A week after the storm it was business as usual in the Quarter. I was in Ramadi for 21 months in 2007-2008 as a contractor. The SEAL Det there wasn't very large and I had cause to work with them occasionally. They strutted around dressed like cowboys in shit-kickers and belt buckles with a big fish hook on the hat bill, Then they would put on their Marine FROG suits and go out and ruin someone's day. Usually a friendly iraqi that the 9th Marines S-2 had been working until the seal team decided to smack him around and break a bunch of shit in his house. Then a platoon commander gets the shit job of going out there and consoling him, giving him cash for all the shit the sailors broke and assuring him that the information he is passing is important and we are his friend. Most of you white-knighting a guy you will never meet just sound ridiculous. Anybody who claims they were forced to shoot a kid is full of shit. It's the oldest most cliched trope in the book. Anyone who says they were .mil and shot anyone in NOLA, Liar. I was in Ramadi in 2006 and resuscitated Ryan Job and met Kyle on a few occasions while in Ramadi. It has nothing to do with "white knighting" or "ball-gagging" but simply not calling someone a liar without solid evidence. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 5:26:48 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If SEALs aren't awesome, then why do so many SEALs write books about how awesome SEALs are? Thats what I thought, you can't answer that one. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
These threads drive me fucking batshit. As big as Arfcom is, surely we have someone that was a Marine or Soldier in Ramadi or Blue Diamond or Shark who knew the man and yet they remain silent. I've got my own opinion I try to keep a lid on because some Chris Kyle ball-gagger who's never been anywhere or done anything will try and drag me into a pit thread. I was in NOLA for Katrina as a contractor for FEMA. You know what blackwater did in New Orleans? They guarded the red cross and FEMA offices and distribution points. Whoopdee fuckin' do. There were SEAL and SWCC guys there. Most of them had come over from Stennis when the storm was coming believing that Belle Chasse would be a better place to get stuck than Gulfport. Most of the Active Duty from Belle Chasse had bugged out to NAS Atlanta and the base was mostly closed so most of them ended up doing jack squat. I talked to a couple at a famous bar on a random wednesday afternoon. Yeah, no shit. Drinking in the middle of the day in civvies because they had no job to do. A week after the storm it was business as usual in the Quarter. I was in Ramadi for 21 months in 2007-2008 as a contractor. The SEAL Det there wasn't very large and I had cause to work with them occasionally. They strutted around dressed like cowboys in shit-kickers and belt buckles with a big fish hook on the hat bill, Then they would put on their Marine FROG suits and go out and ruin someone's day. Usually a friendly iraqi that the 9th Marines S-2 had been working until the seal team decided to smack him around and break a bunch of shit in his house. Then a platoon commander gets the shit job of going out there and consoling him, giving him cash for all the shit the sailors broke and assuring him that the information he is passing is important and we are his friend. Most of you white-knighting a guy you will never meet just sound ridiculous. Anybody who claims they were forced to shoot a kid is full of shit. It's the oldest most cliched trope in the book. Anyone who says they were .mil and shot anyone in NOLA, Liar. If SEALs aren't awesome, then why do so many SEALs write books about how awesome SEALs are? Thats what I thought, you can't answer that one. Checkmate. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 5:29:03 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If SEALs aren't awesome, then why do so many SEALs write books about how awesome SEALs are? Thats what I thought, you can't answer that one. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
These threads drive me fucking batshit. As big as Arfcom is, surely we have someone that was a Marine or Soldier in Ramadi or Blue Diamond or Shark who knew the man and yet they remain silent. I've got my own opinion I try to keep a lid on because some Chris Kyle ball-gagger who's never been anywhere or done anything will try and drag me into a pit thread. I was in NOLA for Katrina as a contractor for FEMA. You know what blackwater did in New Orleans? They guarded the red cross and FEMA offices and distribution points. Whoopdee fuckin' do. There were SEAL and SWCC guys there. Most of them had come over from Stennis when the storm was coming believing that Belle Chasse would be a better place to get stuck than Gulfport. Most of the Active Duty from Belle Chasse had bugged out to NAS Atlanta and the base was mostly closed so most of them ended up doing jack squat. I talked to a couple at a famous bar on a random wednesday afternoon. Yeah, no shit. Drinking in the middle of the day in civvies because they had no job to do. A week after the storm it was business as usual in the Quarter. I was in Ramadi for 21 months in 2007-2008 as a contractor. The SEAL Det there wasn't very large and I had cause to work with them occasionally. They strutted around dressed like cowboys in shit-kickers and belt buckles with a big fish hook on the hat bill, Then they would put on their Marine FROG suits and go out and ruin someone's day. Usually a friendly iraqi that the 9th Marines S-2 had been working until the seal team decided to smack him around and break a bunch of shit in his house. Then a platoon commander gets the shit job of going out there and consoling him, giving him cash for all the shit the sailors broke and assuring him that the information he is passing is important and we are his friend. Most of you white-knighting a guy you will never meet just sound ridiculous. Anybody who claims they were forced to shoot a kid is full of shit. It's the oldest most cliched trope in the book. Anyone who says they were .mil and shot anyone in NOLA, Liar. If SEALs aren't awesome, then why do so many SEALs write books about how awesome SEALs are? Thats what I thought, you can't answer that one. Checkmate. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 6:34:20 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Checkmate. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
These threads drive me fucking batshit. As big as Arfcom is, surely we have someone that was a Marine or Soldier in Ramadi or Blue Diamond or Shark who knew the man and yet they remain silent. I've got my own opinion I try to keep a lid on because some Chris Kyle ball-gagger who's never been anywhere or done anything will try and drag me into a pit thread. I was in NOLA for Katrina as a contractor for FEMA. You know what blackwater did in New Orleans? They guarded the red cross and FEMA offices and distribution points. Whoopdee fuckin' do. There were SEAL and SWCC guys there. Most of them had come over from Stennis when the storm was coming believing that Belle Chasse would be a better place to get stuck than Gulfport. Most of the Active Duty from Belle Chasse had bugged out to NAS Atlanta and the base was mostly closed so most of them ended up doing jack squat. I talked to a couple at a famous bar on a random wednesday afternoon. Yeah, no shit. Drinking in the middle of the day in civvies because they had no job to do. A week after the storm it was business as usual in the Quarter. I was in Ramadi for 21 months in 2007-2008 as a contractor. The SEAL Det there wasn't very large and I had cause to work with them occasionally. They strutted around dressed like cowboys in shit-kickers and belt buckles with a big fish hook on the hat bill, Then they would put on their Marine FROG suits and go out and ruin someone's day. Usually a friendly iraqi that the 9th Marines S-2 had been working until the seal team decided to smack him around and break a bunch of shit in his house. Then a platoon commander gets the shit job of going out there and consoling him, giving him cash for all the shit the sailors broke and assuring him that the information he is passing is important and we are his friend. Most of you white-knighting a guy you will never meet just sound ridiculous. Anybody who claims they were forced to shoot a kid is full of shit. It's the oldest most cliched trope in the book. Anyone who says they were .mil and shot anyone in NOLA, Liar. If SEALs aren't awesome, then why do so many SEALs write books about how awesome SEALs are? Thats what I thought, you can't answer that one. Checkmate. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 6:39:56 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll post this so folks can see what was said about Katrina. http://sofrep.com/19314/american-snipers-engage-us-citizens-in-new-orleans-circa-2005/ The Long Shadow Of Katrina: Military Snipers Engaging U.S. Citizens? by Brandon Webb · April 15, 2013 · Posted In: Op-Ed In early 2012, I had an unexpected conversation with my friend Chris Kyle (author of American Sniper) about the Katrina debacle. I had heard rumblings about Special Operations snipers being deployed to New Orleans to support the effort to restore order. He confirmed the rumors and shared his own intimate knowledge that close contacts of his, many active duty Spec Ops snipers (some Navy SEALs), took leave to work for the controversial PMC (Private Military Company), Blackwater. - Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
They aren't in his book. I don't know about anything at the Superdome but I think he mentioned the car jacker thing in some interview. I could be wrong about that. The interview that I'm aware of goes on to say that Kyle didn't / wouldn't talk about the carjacking story, and then the reporter went on to say "but I'm convinced that it really did happen, even though he wouldn't talk about it." And then stuff seems to have sprung from that. I'll post this so folks can see what was said about Katrina. http://sofrep.com/19314/american-snipers-engage-us-citizens-in-new-orleans-circa-2005/ The Long Shadow Of Katrina: Military Snipers Engaging U.S. Citizens? by Brandon Webb · April 15, 2013 · Posted In: Op-Ed In early 2012, I had an unexpected conversation with my friend Chris Kyle (author of American Sniper) about the Katrina debacle. I had heard rumblings about Special Operations snipers being deployed to New Orleans to support the effort to restore order. He confirmed the rumors and shared his own intimate knowledge that close contacts of his, many active duty Spec Ops snipers (some Navy SEALs), took leave to work for the controversial PMC (Private Military Company), Blackwater. - Those guys can just take leave from active duty to go work for a PMC? How does that work? 
That's really interesting... assuming that a "deployment hiding no integrity douche" can be believed on any topic. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 7:03:22 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How accurate was Luttrell's first book? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The carjacking story is in Luttrell's book. The NOLA story was told to Brandon Webb by Kyle and published on his website, then later removed. It's not a mystery, didn't take more than a couple of minutes to find. WTF? Does anyone take them seriously? How accurate was Luttrell's first book? "Luttrell's" first book wasn't written by Luttrell. The second book, the one I referenced, was. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 7:06:17 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
these Kyle threads have taught me this: When hearsay helps Kyle, we should believe it.When hearsay makes Kyle look like a liar, we should not believe it. I think Kyle was a hero who had feet of clay. The problem is most people don't want heroes with feet of clay, so they use the system above to evaluate the stories that have come out about him. This about covers it. Kyle was a hero, therefore we hero-worship, and anything that casts him in a bad light must not be credible, even if told by other people we hero worship. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 7:07:39 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One thing I was wondering about from the book was when he mentioned he was carrying concealed in CA. It's been some time since I read the book so I don't recall every single detail, but I don't think he mentioned anything about having a CCW. Are Seals allowed to CC pretty much anywhere?
No. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 7:10:41 PM EDT
[#40]
Annnnd here comes the SEAL haters.
Haha...feel the hate swell inside them. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 7:16:46 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is all I will say. Not because I'm a Delta Squirrel Brah operator, because it's second hand and I have no other info. I worked in a hospital on the North Shore of the lake during/after Katrina. A guy I work with was a SEAL. He stopped on the side of the interstate to talk to a team and ended up spending the evening with them bullshitting and whatnot. Some of the thugs down there were being culled down around the dome. Not a thing was reported, which is OK with me. I don't remember the whole story. If I run into him again I'll ask. At the time, we were under the impression that plenty of killing was going on, so I'm sure it didn't register with me as anything out of the ordinary. I resupplied a medic who was attached to some kind of civilian team that was getting in a bit of shit. This guy didn't normally roll with any kind of tac team and he really didn't care for it. He said there was quite a bit of gun play. My favorite, and I don't know anything about it, was some gangs loaded up in watercraft and went in breaking into gun stores/banks/etc.
CSB, I heard sompin like that myself. I also read his statement on his activity there is on tape. I havent tried to find it tho. Dont plan to try. If they killed looters and dont want it in the media far be it from me to link stuff that might get cogs turning somewhere. Not that I think it would, you just never know. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 8:35:16 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pretty sure he would have to go through the regular process which was near impossible in San Diego or LA at the time. But sometimes people carry without a permit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
One thing I was wondering about from the book was when he mentioned he was carrying concealed in CA. It's been some time since I read the book so I don't recall every single detail, but I don't think he mentioned anything about having a CCW. Are Seals allowed to CC pretty much anywhere? Pretty sure he would have to go through the regular process which was near impossible in San Diego or LA at the time. But sometimes people carry without a permit. Concealed means concealed right?
I was kind of thinking that he'd have to go through the normal process. I'll have to go back and find the pages where he talks about CC'ing in California. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 8:43:06 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bama, I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or being sarcastic. I don't mean to offend, I can only speak to my experience and what I saw but the way I remember it the real guys out in the shit were the cops from other areas that came in to help. Kansas City PD and NJ guard MPs each saved my bacon while Blackwater guys were checking my ID at the warehouse and making me sign in triplicate when I needed MREs for my guys. Are you kidding? We were nothing more than well paid security guards.
My first gig down there was way more fun. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 8:45:32 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Those guys can just take leave from active duty to go work for a PMC? How does that work?
That's really interesting... assuming that a "deployment hiding no integrity douche" can be believed on any topic. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
They aren't in his book. I don't know about anything at the Superdome but I think he mentioned the car jacker thing in some interview. I could be wrong about that. The interview that I'm aware of goes on to say that Kyle didn't / wouldn't talk about the carjacking story, and then the reporter went on to say "but I'm convinced that it really did happen, even though he wouldn't talk about it." And then stuff seems to have sprung from that. I'll post this so folks can see what was said about Katrina. http://sofrep.com/19314/american-snipers-engage-us-citizens-in-new-orleans-circa-2005/ The Long Shadow Of Katrina: Military Snipers Engaging U.S. Citizens? by Brandon Webb · April 15, 2013 · Posted In: Op-Ed In early 2012, I had an unexpected conversation with my friend Chris Kyle (author of American Sniper) about the Katrina debacle. I had heard rumblings about Special Operations snipers being deployed to New Orleans to support the effort to restore order. He confirmed the rumors and shared his own intimate knowledge that close contacts of his, many active duty Spec Ops snipers (some Navy SEALs), took leave to work for the controversial PMC (Private Military Company), Blackwater. - Those guys can just take leave from active duty to go work for a PMC? How does that work?
That's really interesting... assuming that a "deployment hiding no integrity douche" can be believed on any topic. The SF guys who we shared a building with iirc they reserve or NG wanted to come back after their green suit deployment and work for BW. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 9:03:20 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: these Kyle threads have taught me this: When hearsay helps Kyle, we should believe it.When hearsay makes Kyle look like a liar, we should not believe it. I think Kyle was a hero who had feet of clay. The problem is most people don't want heroes with feet of clay, so they use the system above to evaluate the stories that have come out about him. Hearsay goes to the truth of the matter asserted. We are not trying to determine if Kyle did or did not kill people at gas stations or at the superdome. The (arguable) fact that he claimed to have done these things reflects on his truthfulness. So, let's look at a proven (to a legal standard before a jury) fact. Kyle defamed a celebrity and well known douche bag. Since the celebrity was at issue (as it is with all public figure defamation cases, because there is a higher standard...actual malice...that needs to be reached to win). Ventura is as unsympathetic a plaintiff as you could possibly imagine. All things being equal, Kyle and his widow were the most sympathetic defendants you could imagine. Yet, a jury heard the evidence and concluded that there was malice. In other words, Kyle knowingly, with the knowledge of falsity, lied. Kyle was proven, in court, at an elevated standard that is more difficult to prove than normal people, to be a liar. He may have been many things. But among those things, he was a liar. It's a shame, and given his service to the nation, I don't think his lies should be the sum of his legacy. But he was a liar and I don't think good judgement requires me to approach any statements attributed to him with a neutrality bias. Liars rarely lie once. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 10:08:47 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hearsay goes to the truth of the matter asserted. We are not trying to determine if Kyle did or did not kill people at gas stations or at the superdome. The (arguable) fact that he claimed to have done these things reflects on his truthfulness. So, let's look at a proven (to a legal standard before a jury) fact. Kyle defamed a celebrity and well known douche bag. Since the celebrity was at issue (as it is with all public figure defamation cases, because there is a higher standard...actual malice...that needs to be reached to win). Ventura is as unsympathetic a plaintiff as you could possibly imagine. All things being equal, Kyle and his widow were the most sympathetic defendants you could imagine. Yet, a jury heard the evidence and concluded that there was malice. In other words, Kyle knowingly, with the knowledge of falsity, lied. Kyle was proven, in court, at an elevated standard that is more difficult to prove than normal people, to be a liar. He may have been many things. But among those things, he was a liar. It's a shame, and given his service to the nation, I don't think his lies should be the sum of his legacy. But he was a liar and I don't think good judgement requires me to approach any statements attributed to him with a neutrality bias. Liars rarely lie once. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
these Kyle threads have taught me this: When hearsay helps Kyle, we should believe it.When hearsay makes Kyle look like a liar, we should not believe it. I think Kyle was a hero who had feet of clay. The problem is most people don't want heroes with feet of clay, so they use the system above to evaluate the stories that have come out about him. Hearsay goes to the truth of the matter asserted. We are not trying to determine if Kyle did or did not kill people at gas stations or at the superdome. The (arguable) fact that he claimed to have done these things reflects on his truthfulness. So, let's look at a proven (to a legal standard before a jury) fact. Kyle defamed a celebrity and well known douche bag. Since the celebrity was at issue (as it is with all public figure defamation cases, because there is a higher standard...actual malice...that needs to be reached to win). Ventura is as unsympathetic a plaintiff as you could possibly imagine. All things being equal, Kyle and his widow were the most sympathetic defendants you could imagine. Yet, a jury heard the evidence and concluded that there was malice. In other words, Kyle knowingly, with the knowledge of falsity, lied. Kyle was proven, in court, at an elevated standard that is more difficult to prove than normal people, to be a liar. He may have been many things. But among those things, he was a liar. It's a shame, and given his service to the nation, I don't think his lies should be the sum of his legacy. But he was a liar and I don't think good judgement requires me to approach any statements attributed to him with a neutrality bias. Liars rarely lie once. Best excuse I heard -- "He was just building his brand." |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 10:26:11 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The carjacking story is in Luttrell's book. The NOLA story was told to Brandon Webb by Kyle and published on his website, then later removed. It's not a mystery, didn't take more than a couple of minutes to find. Brandon Webb is a fucking piece of shit. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 10:27:24 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No dog in the fight either way on my part. Seems like a lot of heresay to me. "Someone told me Chris Kyle said X" Quote HistoryQuoted:
No dog in the fight either way on my part. Seems like a lot of heresay to me. "Someone told me Chris Kyle said X" This is what I've always seemed to find. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 10:30:22 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Confirmed kills aren't up to just the shooter saying, yeah I got 3 today Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Has anyone other than Chris Kyle ever explained how the "kill count" was arrived at? Because it sounds a lot like Chris Kyle has a kill count because Chris Kyle said so. Not that he didn't kill some guys, but Hathcock had documentation and witnesses. Confirmed kills aren't up to just the shooter saying, yeah I got 3 today Tell me more about what makes a confirmed kill. School us. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2015 10:34:48 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Annnnd here comes the SEAL haters. Haha...feel the hate swell inside them. I'm not a seal hater but they have a reputation and a stereotype for a reason. Part of it isn't their fault. The PR machine and slobbering love affair it inspires has politicians and commanders putting them in roles where they don't fit. Conventional or joint commands tolerate them because of the giant piles of money that come along with inviting seals to your party. Rarely is it worth that hassle the comes with it especially when you're waging a "hearts and minds" counter insurgency 1000mi from water. If you see a bunch of flat black bro-dozers in front of a bar in the tidewater area... just keep on driving. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
