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Posted: 8/6/2023 7:02:50 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: Is the Constitution, specifically the preamble and the 1st amendment anti Christian? It does not codify Christianity so it is anti-Christian in the same sense as Atheism is a construct of Christianity. One can be an Atheist only if God exists. If God does not exist then not believing in God is not an incorrect view and Atheism does not exist. |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 7:04:57 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Trolls appear in the Norse Pagan religion and mythos. Not very Christian, Tom. |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 7:05:37 PM EDT
[#3]
Your premise is that this is a Christian nation?
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Posted: 8/6/2023 7:06:59 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, you haven't said how I'm incorrect, please tell me? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yes he was. I'm glad you're reading your OT, but you don't seem to have a clue what's going on in Psalm 2. Well, first, you haven’t made any claims of what it says, you’re just dropping it like a trump card with no context whatsoever. Second, Psalm 2 is about the eternal nature of the kingdom of God, maintained through the Messiah, despite the chaos seen on earth. It really doesn’t have anything to do with the governance of a nation. |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 7:07:20 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It wasn't merely a step down. Look at the bolded part. It's clear. It was a flat out rejection of God as king. At this point, I suspect you are yanking my chain, because I have made my answer clear, multiple times, on what you have asked here. I don't think you'd be asking if you were reading what I posted instead of just skimming it. My nose is not tweaked about it or anything, but it's really odd on your part. As for what sort of politicians? (Exodus 18:13-23) [13] It came about the next day that Moses sat to judge the people, and the people stood about Moses from the morning until the evening. [14] Now when Moses' father-in-law saw all that he was doing for the people, he said, "What is this thing that you are doing for the people? Why do you alone sit as judge and all the people stand about you from morning until evening?" [15] Moses said to his father-in-law, "Because the people come to me to inquire of God. [16] When they have a dispute, it comes to me, and I judge between a man and his neighbor and make known the statutes of God and His laws." [17] Moses' father-in-law said to him, "The thing that you are doing is not good. [18] You will surely wear out, both yourself and these people who are with you, for the task is too heavy for you; you cannot do it alone. [19] Now listen to me: I will give you counsel, and God be with you. You be the people's representative before God, and you bring the disputes to God, [20] then teach them the statutes and the laws, and make known to them the way in which they are to walk and the work they are to do. [21] Furthermore, you shall select out of all the people able men who fear God, men of truth, those who hate dishonest gain; and you shall place these over them as leaders of thousands, of hundreds, of fifties and of tens. [22] Let them judge the people at all times; and let it be that every major dispute they will bring to you, but every minor dispute they themselves will judge. So it will be easier for you, and they will bear the burden with you. [23] If you do this thing and God so commands you, then you will be able to endure, and all these people also will go to their place in peace." |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 7:09:12 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: uh ... NO.  The meaning of the text of cotus is what determines that. As in any contract situation with multiple establishing parties, enforcing that always falls - ultimately - to the parties that made the thing. One of the bigger reasons that our fedgov is a necrotic disaster ... is because it has been allowed to functionally determine what is and is not according to the constitution. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The arbiter of last resort to decide whether what the federal government did is Constitutional is the federal government itself. uh ... NO. The meaning of the text of cotus is what determines that. As in any contract situation with multiple establishing parties, enforcing that always falls - ultimately - to the parties that made the thing. One of the bigger reasons that our fedgov is a necrotic disaster ... is because it has been allowed to functionally determine what is and is not according to the constitution. Brother I think you need to re-read my post. I dislike the federal government and am an advocate for Jeffersonian ideals |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 7:09:27 PM EDT
[#7]
Dear fellow Californian, stop making the rest of us look bad MMMKAY
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Posted: 8/6/2023 7:09:51 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We may or may not ignore bad government, but does God? I don't think so. He has quite a bit to say about government in the OT and NT. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The federal government is given specific powers by states The states give up monies to fund this specific power The arbiter of last resort to decide whether what the federal government did is Constitutional is the federal government itself. That's my answer to the government question. The answer to your second question is that my only master is the God of creation, the heavens and the earth. This really isn't a hard concept to me. Ignore stupid government, get to know the creator of the universe better and contemplate his greatness. Easy. I am now questioning if you're having an argument in good faith. 
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Posted: 8/6/2023 7:09:55 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't believe in luck, but moving forward I'm not promoting a "theocracy" like Iran, but one more like ancient Israel where the magistrate, for instance David, worked with the priests to help him rule the country. He had his duties and the priests had their duties. There was a separation, but not in an absolute sense...they worked together. I don't even propose a monarch, a constitutional republic if just fine, but on what precepts does the Christian desire his constitution to be based? One's that violate God's precepts. What can we learn from righteous Kings like Hezekiah or Josiah? Even if you're a significant minority? And the others? Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius? |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 7:11:06 PM EDT
[#10]
So, OP, what's your alternative? Please, be specific.
I see things like "In God We Trust" on every piece of US currency, and quotes from the Founders like, "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious People. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other" and wonder how you can see anything about this country's founding as anti-Christian? It's not a binary choice. Just because the Constitution doesn't specifically endorse Christianity doesn't mean it's anti-Christian. It simply recognizes that people might have other beliefs. |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 7:14:07 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your premise is that this is a Christian nation? He didn't claim that. He asked if the 1st amendment was anti Christian. |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 7:17:01 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol. John 8:7 |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 7:17:27 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Some seem to think I don't know what Psalm 2 is about. It's about Christ and God the Father's decree that He is the King of all the kings of the earth, that they should obey Him (kiss the son) or they will perish. That's just a quick go over, there's more to the Psalm. [34] But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together. [35] Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, [36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law? [37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. [38] This is the first and great commandment. [39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. Jesus doesn't say "Psalm 2". |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 7:18:20 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The intent of the Founding Fathers was probably something like: "You go to a Protestant Christian church that has rails around the altar. I go to a Protestant Christian church that does not have rails around the altar. Let's agree to handle this disagreement in ways other than burning each other at the stake." The idea that what they put in the Constitution would be used to tear crosses off of war memorials or prevent students from saying a prayer at a graduation ceremony would never have occurred to them in a million years. And yet, thanks largely to the courts and their power to "interpret" the Constitution (which is functionally identical to the power to rewrite the Constitution), here we are. This. |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 7:20:10 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The intent of the Founding Fathers was probably something like: "You go to a Protestant Christian church that has rails around the altar. I go to a Protestant Christian church that does not have rails around the altar. Let's agree to handle this disagreement in ways other than burning each other at the stake." The idea that what they put in the Constitution would be used to tear crosses off of war memorials or prevent students from saying a prayer at a graduation ceremony would never have occurred to them in a million years. And yet, thanks largely to the courts and their power to "interpret" the Constitution (which is functionally identical to the power to rewrite the Constitution), here we are. As an atheist, I agree. I cannot stand the capital "A" Atheists that go around being offended at the sight of a cross. I do not believe the Founders intended these things. In fact, just like the 2A, I feel their language is plain enough and needs no extra interpretation. |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 7:20:17 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: Is the Constitution, specifically the preamble and the 1st amendment anti Christian? Psalm 2 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? 2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord, and against his anointed, saying, 3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. 4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. 5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. 6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. 7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. 10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. 11 Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling. 12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him. |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 7:23:03 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And you're not being very Christian either. But when it comes down to it, be honest...you were trolling. So it fits. I could have called you a depraved heathen that just wants to cause trouble, but I didn't. Jesus called the Pharisees vipers and white washed tombs. Hey, I’m not the guy you called a troll. I was just commenting. You post like some kind of Nephilim or something. |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 7:23:24 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It does not codify Christianity so it is anti-Christian in the same sense as Atheism is a construct of Christianity. One can be an Atheist only if God exists. If God does not exist then not believing in God is not an incorrect view and Atheism does not exist. |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 7:23:25 PM EDT
[#19]
Is this a weed thread, or a mental illness thread?
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Posted: 8/6/2023 7:26:41 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your premise is that this is a Christian nation? |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 7:28:48 PM EDT
[#21]
Holy hell, op. Google "confirmation bias" and "cherry picking" while you're at it.
The question is nonsensical. No, it isn't. |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 7:30:02 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, first, you haven't made any claims of what it says, you're just dropping it like a trump card with no context whatsoever. Second, Psalm 2 is about the eternal nature of the kingdom of God, maintained through the Messiah, despite the chaos seen on earth. It really doesn't have anything to do with the governance of a nation. |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 7:32:03 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Brother I think you need to re-read my post. I dislike the federal government and am an advocate for Jeffersonian ideals |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 7:33:36 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am now questioning if you're having an argument in good faith. |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 7:33:40 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anti Christian? No. Secular? Yes. Though some wanted Jesus Christ inserted, Thomas Jefferson explains the absurdity of that notion, "Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed, by inserting the word "Jesus Christ," so that it should read, "a departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by a great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan, the Hindoo, and Infidel of every denomination." In other words, the COTUS and 1st Amendment aren't anti-Christian, but they're for all Americans of any faith..., which may be to the chagrin of Christians, but, oh well. That was for the VA bill for Establishing Religious Freedom Had nothing to do with the 1A. |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 7:38:21 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why not explain how "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" is somehow anti Christian. It isn't it refers to a state church like the Kings of England imposed upon the people. America was founded as a church relocation project got rid of those pesky protestants that wanted to worship God and His Son they way they saw fit. The founders knew this and were a part of the movement to free America from the restraints of the king. Especially in their religious lives. Pagans & their communists brethren have sought to twist the meaning to propagandize for the notion that the founders were against religion... So the troll in this case is the OP trying to start trouble with Christians and looking for allies in that harassment imo |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 7:38:28 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So that part about the kings of the nations being required to kiss the Son is about what? There are only two choices here in who you're going to serve (thanks Bob Dylan). So who are the kings of the earth kissing? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Well, first, you haven't made any claims of what it says, you're just dropping it like a trump card with no context whatsoever. Second, Psalm 2 is about the eternal nature of the kingdom of God, maintained through the Messiah, despite the chaos seen on earth. It really doesn't have anything to do with the governance of a nation. It’s a call to all the earth to trust in Jesus. It has nothing to do with the governance of a nation. It’s like you googled a Bible verse about kings and decided to cram the worst takes possible into it. |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 7:38:50 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And you are going to force everyone to subscribe to your interpretation? Even if you're a significant minority? And the others? Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius? |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 7:39:23 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am now questioning if you're having an argument in good faith. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The federal government is given specific powers by states The states give up monies to fund this specific power The arbiter of last resort to decide whether what the federal government did is Constitutional is the federal government itself. That's my answer to the government question. The answer to your second question is that my only master is the God of creation, the heavens and the earth. This really isn't a hard concept to me. Ignore stupid government, get to know the creator of the universe better and contemplate his greatness. Easy. I am now questioning if you're having an argument in good faith. Trolling and stupidity is hard to differentiate from one another. |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 7:39:41 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That was for the VA bill for Establishing Religious Freedom Had nothing to do with the 1A. Yes, which informed his views on the 1A. |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 7:40:45 PM EDT
[#31]
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Posted: 8/6/2023 7:43:42 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So, OP, what's your alternative? Please, be specific. I see things like "In God We Trust" on every piece of US currency, and quotes from the Founders like, "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious People. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other" and wonder how you can see anything about this country's founding as anti-Christian? It's not a binary choice. Just because the Constitution doesn't specifically endorse Christianity doesn't mean it's anti-Christian. It simply recognizes that people might have other beliefs. |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 7:45:03 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No. FPNI |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 7:48:50 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Matt.22 Verses 34 to 40 [34] But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together. [35] Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, [36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law? [37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. [38] This is the first and great commandment. [39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. Jesus doesn't say "Psalm 2". Some verses of Psalm 2 are referenced in the New Testament: Verses 1-2: in a speech attributed to Peter and John in Acts 4:25 26. Verse 7: in Acts 13:33; Hebrews 1:5; Hebrews 5:5. Verses 8-9: in Revelation 2:26,27; 12:5; 19:15. For ease I just cut and pasted these. |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 7:51:16 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thomas Jefferson didn't think so. |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 7:52:59 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hey, I'm not the guy you called a troll. I was just commenting. You post like some kind of Nephilim or something. |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 7:53:06 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He didn't claim that. He asked if the 1st amendment was anti Christian. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Your premise is that this is a Christian nation? He didn't claim that. He asked if the 1st amendment was anti Christian. My answer was yes. 1John 4:3. and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world. The diabolical scheme of Satan is to disguise and counterfeit Christianity so that people (in this case) believe in America and it’s “goodness” rather than Christ. The constitution says; “a more perfect nation” it doesn’t say; “A perfect nation”. Christians understand that this world is not their home-where ever they were born, live, or will pass into eternity from. This nation never has been Christian because this nation (whatever that means) collectively does not confess Jesus as Lord. Individuals can and do… but this “nation” never has or will. |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 7:57:08 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: Is the Constitution, specifically the preamble and the 1st amendment anti Christian? Psalm 2 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? 2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord, and against his anointed, saying, 3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. 4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. 5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. 6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. 7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. 10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. 11 Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling. 12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him. OP knows nothing about the founding fathers or American history. |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 8:00:06 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It isn't it refers to a state church like the Kings of England imposed upon the people. America was founded as a church relocation project got rid of those pesky protestants that wanted to worship God and His Son they way they saw fit. The founders knew this and were a part of the movement to free America from the restraints of the king. Especially in their religious lives. Pagans & their communists brethren have sought to twist the meaning to propagandize for the notion that the founders were against religion... So the troll in this case is the OP trying to start trouble with Christians and looking for allies in that harassment imo And you would be wrong. I asked it seriously...the nature and application of government is as serious as a heart attack to me. I want a godly government. I don't think the modern church thinks about these things much, ancients did, maybe I'm wrong. I'm not primarily looking for allies, I'm looking to how should governments glorify Christ. I knew this would be highly controversial, but I do want what is best for my brethren...that is again...God fearing men in government. |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 8:00:08 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is binary, Jesus said you are either for Him or against Him. The founders did use a lot of god talk, but many didn't believe Christian theology or precepts. What they did do was codify religious pluralism. You can believe or disbelieve in any god, worship anyway you want...that's our law of the land. It's my premise that that directly violates the 1st commandment. So the only legal religion in the USA should be (rolls dice...) the Russian Orthodox Church. |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 8:01:47 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Some seem to think I don't know what Psalm 2 is about. It's about Christ and God the Father's decree that He is the King of all the kings of the earth, that they should obey Him (kiss the son) or they will perish. That's just a quick go over, there's more to the Psalm. I would strongly suggest that you do a lot more studying. The Bible was not originally split into chapters and verses (they are tools for the reader to use) Read Psalms1 and 2 together and it will help you understand Blessed is the man Who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly, Nor stands in the path of sinners, Nor sits in the seat of the scornful; But his delight is in the law of the Lord, And in His law he meditates day and night. He shall be like a tree Planted by the rivers of water, That brings forth its fruit in its season, Whose leaf also shall not wither; And whatever he does shall prosper. The ungodly are not so, But are like the chaff which the wind drives away. Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, Nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. For the Lord knows the way of the righteous, But the way of the ungodly shall perish. Why do the nations rage, And the people plot a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, And the rulers take counsel together, Against the Lord and against His Anointed, saying, “Let us break Their bonds in pieces And cast away Their cords from us.” He who sits in the heavens shall laugh; The Lord shall hold them in derision. Then He shall speak to them in His wrath, And distress them in His deep displeasure: “Yet I have set My King On My holy hill of Zion.” “I will declare the decree: The Lord has said to Me, ‘You are My Son, Today I have begotten You. Ask of Me, and I will give You The nations for Your inheritance, And the ends of the earth for Your possession. You shall break them with a rod of iron; You shall dash them to pieces like a potter’s vessel.’ ” Now therefore, be wise, O kings; Be instructed, you judges of the earth. Serve the Lord with fear, And rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest He be angry, And you perish in the way, When His wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him. |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 8:02:00 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is binary, Jesus said you are either for Him or against Him. The founders did use a lot of god talk, but many didn't believe Christian theology or precepts. What they did do was codify religious pluralism. You can believe or disbelieve in any god, worship anyway you want...that's our law of the land. It's my premise that that directly violates the 1st commandment. So, what if it does? There is nothing in the US Constitution that says that you must be a follower of Christ, and thus a Christian. You are free to worship as you please concerning any deity that you want. Or no deity at all. It is a fact that not all will inherit the kingdom of the One true God. On the contrary, many will die the second death and be separated from the kingdom of God throughout the eternal realm. God knew this from way before the beginning concerning anything we might think we know about the divine nature and character of God. The Bible states that it is not God's will that any should perish. But, people don't have the power beyond the grave to save themselves. The great mystery that all will experience at one point and there's nothing ultimately that we can do to stop it. God, knows about all things great and small. He knows the human heart like no other. |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 8:04:38 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's a call to all the earth to trust in Jesus. It has nothing to do with the governance of a nation. It's like you googled a Bible verse about kings and decided to cram the worst takes possible into it. |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 8:09:02 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, I would disagree, the church has been looking into this Psalm and it's ramifications concerning magistrates for centuries. The psalm specifically calls out the kings of the nations, not just a general call to the world to believe. I think your critique fails at that point. And your making assumptions about me that are not true. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It's a call to all the earth to trust in Jesus. It has nothing to do with the governance of a nation. It's like you googled a Bible verse about kings and decided to cram the worst takes possible into it. Lol. You’re so hilariously wrong here I don’t know where to begin. |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 8:09:19 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would strongly suggest that you do a lot more studying. The Bible was not originally split into chapters and verses (they are tools for the reader to use) Read Psalms1 and 2 together and it will help you understand Blessed is the man Who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly, Nor stands in the path of sinners, Nor sits in the seat of the scornful; But his delight is in the law of the Lord, And in His law he meditates day and night. He shall be like a tree Planted by the rivers of water, That brings forth its fruit in its season, Whose leaf also shall not wither; And whatever he does shall prosper. The ungodly are not so, But are like the chaff which the wind drives away. Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, Nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. For the Lord knows the way of the righteous, But the way of the ungodly shall perish. Why do the nations rage, And the people plot a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, And the rulers take counsel together, Against the Lord and against His Anointed, saying, "Let us break Their bonds in pieces And cast away Their cords from us." He who sits in the heavens shall laugh; The Lord shall hold them in derision. Then He shall speak to them in His wrath, And distress them in His deep displeasure: "Yet I have set My King On My holy hill of Zion." "I will declare the decree: The Lord has said to Me, 'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You. Ask of Me, and I will give You The nations for Your inheritance, And the ends of the earth for Your possession. You shall break them with a rod of iron; You shall dash them to pieces like a potter's vessel.' " Now therefore, be wise, O kings; Be instructed, you judges of the earth. Serve the Lord with fear, And rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest He be angry, And you perish in the way, When His wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him. |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 8:11:29 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol. You're so hilariously wrong here I don't know where to begin. |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 8:14:57 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you don't know where to begin, try exegeting Psalm 2 publicly...just trying to help you. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Lol. You're so hilariously wrong here I don't know where to begin. You should take your own advice. This whole thread is a case study in eisegesis. Literally nothing you’ve said here is true. |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 8:18:34 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: not sure exactly what you are asking. my favorite scripture regarding this is in Mark 12 -- Jesus challenged by the Pharisees. Paying the Imperial Tax to Caesar 13Later they sent some of the Pharisees and Herodians to Jesus to catch him in his words. 14They came to him and said, “Teacher, we know that you are a man of integrity. You aren’t swayed by others, because you pay no attention to who they are; but you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. Is it right to pay the imperial tax b to Caesar or not? 15Should we pay or shouldn’t we?” But Jesus knew their hypocrisy. “Why are you trying to trap me?” he asked. “Bring me a denarius and let me look at it.” 16They brought the coin, and he asked them, “Whose image is this? And whose inscription?” “Caesar’s,” they replied. 17Then Jesus said to them, “Give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s.” And they were amazed at him. ------------- basically meaning there is man's law and God's law. don't confuse them or assume one or the other do NOT apply. in the end -- all that matters is your love for God and Jesus' redemption on the cross.  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Is any of that biblical? Has Christ signed off on that view? What does Psalm 2 require? Can men/Christians write laws that violate God's laws? not sure exactly what you are asking. my favorite scripture regarding this is in Mark 12 -- Jesus challenged by the Pharisees. Paying the Imperial Tax to Caesar 13Later they sent some of the Pharisees and Herodians to Jesus to catch him in his words. 14They came to him and said, “Teacher, we know that you are a man of integrity. You aren’t swayed by others, because you pay no attention to who they are; but you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. Is it right to pay the imperial tax b to Caesar or not? 15Should we pay or shouldn’t we?” But Jesus knew their hypocrisy. “Why are you trying to trap me?” he asked. “Bring me a denarius and let me look at it.” 16They brought the coin, and he asked them, “Whose image is this? And whose inscription?” “Caesar’s,” they replied. 17Then Jesus said to them, “Give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s.” And they were amazed at him. ------------- basically meaning there is man's law and God's law. don't confuse them or assume one or the other do NOT apply. in the end -- all that matters is your love for God and Jesus' redemption on the cross. Completely wrong interpretation of this scripture passage. Jesus was calling them hypocrites because THEY KNEW/KNOW and Believed that EVERYTHING belongs to God….. and that that NONE of it was Caesar’s -that it all belongs to God. Ps 24:1, 89:11, 50:12 Also the poll tax was paid with a coin bearing the image of Tiberius Caesar with the inscription that read “Caesarea Avgvsti Divi Pater Patriae” Caesar the Divine. Jesus did not tell them to pay the tax. Jesus was giving them a contemptuous sarcastic rebuttal that they could not argue (as Jews) against. |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 8:20:09 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So, what if it does? There is nothing in the US Constitution that says that you must be a follower of Christ, and thus a Christian. You are free to worship as you please concerning any deity that you want. Or no deity at all. It is a fact that not all will inherit the kingdom of the One true God. On the contrary, many will die the second death and be separated from the kingdom of God throughout the eternal realm. God knew this from way before the beginning concerning anything we might think we know about the divine nature and character of God. The Bible states that it is not God's will that any should perish. But, people don't have the power beyond the grave to save themselves. The great mystery that all will experience at one point and there's nothing ultimately that we can do to stop it. God, knows about all things great and small. He knows the human heart like no other. |
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Posted: 8/6/2023 8:22:05 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, the constitution does say you are free to worship or not any god you wish. It's codified into law. It also violates the 1st commandment. God/Christ, nowhere in the scriptures, has said this is ok, men are commanded to have no other gods before Him. It's actual pretty simple. I'm not really talking about ultimate salvation here, but the nature and duties of magistrates in the here and now. Is it not the biblical way that ALL summit to the LORD? Who's law is supreme after all? Who at present is the Lord of this world? |
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